[easy goer]

This is not a make or break issue so I want to take some suggestions from the group here and maybe run with one or two.

My BPD wife suggests that we work on the outside of the house together. Now this is interesting because my wife separated from me in July after going to the hospital several times earlier this year. She became very afraid of me, although I never hurt her or tried to...

However, she comes back to the house quite often. I make dinner for her/our daughter every sunday when we trade off our daughter. So she comes over to do the wash, or go running or tai chi. We do some stuff together. We talk nearly every day. We talk more now then the last year..

Now my wife wants to pull the weeds, garden, etc outside the house.

I tell her okay "Lets agree to do 2 or 3 things on sat. and then after that we all relax. THe three of use, play cards etc. No walking, no projects just relax.."

She "I dont know if I can do that."

"Will you think about it and get back? "

"Yes."

We didnt get to discuss this much with the marriage counselor but after we finished counseling she brings up two more projects she wants to do on the house.

Okay looking for ideas from you all. I want to agree to do this work but I want to try to get her to relax. What do you think?

[Michah]

Hi easygoer,

Great to see you again......

It sounds to me like she is "nesting" or wanting to create bonds with you indirectly.......

In doing projects that involve you, but do not necessarily require her to interact one to one, she creates pathways in healing.

If she cannot relax, then don't ask her to. Her body and mind will tell her when it is time. There is stillness in movement, just as there is relaxation in action.

Relaxation, or for me anyway, is a state of mind rather than a physical state of inertia.

I can only use examples of my own experience, and I know there are days when I do not want to talk or interact with my partner, but want him close......so I also garden with him. I do this with my son as well. I am not a person who does well with one to one bonding. It is as if the focus is too much on me and thats when I start to feel "unwell". or focus too much on my inadequacies.

As usual, you are doing all that you can, and being ultimately supportive......you are doing really well. She will know how much work you put in, and eventually she will be able to see it......as you will also see all the work she is doing.

I know in relationships we seek intimacy.......but intimacy can be a frightening thing......she is looking for ways to be intimate, without to much focus on the intimacy. Get what I mean? Do without doing and everything gets done.......in saying that, you have every right to ask of her, the things that you like to do......she may not agree, but have no expectations.

Take good care, sweets.......this is a good sign......

Michah

[easy goer]

well Im not going to insist on it, Im just going to try and see if she will do it. Sometimes she agrees to do something and later on she says she didnt want to do it. I.e. she is trying to please someone. I thought she was working on that but it happened again last week when daughter and I went to a barnyard thing. I asked her to come along and she met up with us but didnt have a good time. Later she said she felt she had to.

So I dont want her to do that.

As more background. She is more open in counseling, she talks fairly freely. Sometimes she has lot of criticism to make but it is better than her not talking. She is still having lots of trouble getting to emotions/feelings. Today she said she is "not a feeling person" and she "not a sharing person."

Whatever it means, she is still very uncomfortable with her feelings.

At night I tell her I miss her alot and she has begun to start to respond to this and say "I need time by myself to sort myself out." Something like that. She has actually started to respond to this the last few days. I tell her we all respect that and to do what you need to do.

So thats about where we're at. I know it will take a lot of time and Im trying to further it w/o messing it up. You have to be very patient with it, I know.

[shezbut]

Best wishes to you and your wife, easy goer. Kudos to you for giving her the space, time, and support to work through her problems.

Shez

[easy goer]

thanks, everyone.

[mlpHolmes]

It is wonderful how supportive you are w/ your wife!! You are an Super Husband!
Activities & projects are unfolding & being enjoyed at a easy going pace for your wife. That is fantastic. Sometimes BPD ppl get easily overwhelmed. Keeping your expectations low, I hope will bring you great success!

Live, Love, Laugh,
Holmes

So she comes over to do the wash, or go running or tai chi. We do some stuff together. We talk nearly every day. We talk more now then the last year..

Now my wife wants to pull the weeds, garden, etc outside the house.

I tell her okay "Lets agree to do 2 or 3 things on sat. and then after that we all relax. THe three of use, play cards etc. No walking, no projects just relax.."

She "I dont know if I can do that."

"Will you think about it and get back? "

"Yes."

We didnt get to discuss this much with the marriage counselor but after we finished counseling she brings up two more projects she wants to do on the house.

Hi Easy G,

She "I dont know if I can do that."

I was giving my studio presentaion in front of my classmates with a couple of professors attending . And in the midle of my presentaion he said.

"tell us in three sentances the main points of the garden.design"

I responded . "I don't think I can do that." That was the truth . I could not.

So in therapy find out what this { I don't know if I can do that} is about.

She may not beable to because she needs a goal activity . Or she may not beable to do an activity inside the house because she does not feel safe with you and is setting a boundrie on how close you get physically.
A litle about ADHD ,

because of ADHD, the brain shifts from one thing to the next. thats why I could not present.and make sense. .

Your wife sounds sounds somewhat like myself . That does not mean because you call your wife BPD that I am . just to reinforce what I told you earlier.

The hyperactivity in ADHD helps a person to be able to focus .

People with ADHD for example will need to stand up rather than sit down so they can move around .while reading , writing or drawing.

exersize helps with the brain chemistry/

Intresting she likes Tai chi.
Tai chi is continual flowing movement yet meditative.unlike Yoga which has alot of freezing poses. The hardest part for me to learn in Tai chi was the first part . That was quiet standing .

I could not stand still and giggled for quite some time .
I fiannaly learned to root and stand motionless but I had / have to really get into hyperfocus to do so.

Does she like to knit or crochet? Thats an activity she can do while playing cards or watchig tv .. driiving.. .

Limiting the sedintary activities to say 15 minutes at a time is suggested to help with siting for too long .

and since your not physically close this would not be an option right now for you . Holding and touching helps to relax and is nice to be able to do while playing cards . I have read where many with ADHD do not like to be touched or are touchy feely .

Is she a very creative person always wanting to do lots of different things?

Does it drive her bonkers to cut up lemons and other mundane repetive activites with out having a TV on or listening to Music? or creating things in her head.

does she figet? wiggle her feet or jiggle keys in her hands tear up klenex tissues or tangle up ear buds to her CD palyer ?

You may have to settle for relaxing activites that are active like walking ,

The function you invited her to and she didn't have fun. She may find social activites that are not "goal" oriented "BORING" and she may feel the same way about activites such ad playing cards.

So something relaxing with movement and a goal may intrest her and your daughter.


So Maybe bringing this up in therapy not as there is something WRONG with her .
More just geting to know how "she is"

For me I see how I am and I have a difficult time changing it so I have to find a way to work with it. Unless medication might help .

And possibly if she does have sttention problems she may beable to become more aware of whats going on with her and be able to negotiate more.

If she is afraid of you thats something you have to work out in therapy.

if a person does not feel safe they are not going to want to do things where they are inside a room with the person.



Patricia

[easy goer]

Yes that's all very interesting.

The thing is she used to be able to play card with me. when we were first married this was no big deal. She even played cards with me/daughter/father up to maybe 9 months ago. Or perhaps she might have played more recently but we didnt ask she was in hospital. So it seems to me something has changed. What happened when she went into hospital was she said that she was afraid of me...that was back in APril she doesnt say that now but who knows??

She does fidget a lot. Mostly doing ankle rotations with her feet as this is part of a stretching routine that she is into. Her mother pointed out that when she starts stretching for long periods it is a bad sign. This is a very keen observation, she began stretching for like an hour+ at a time, every night just before she went into hospital...

So I look at the nervous rotation of the foot as when the conversation with the therapist is going in a direction she doesnt want. Or sometimes she just does it the entire session so...?

She could very well be ADHD, but she is also doing just about every single thing mentioned in the eggshell book as well as the stuff Ive read from Linehan and Kernberg. She also had been abused as youngster probably severely, but the exact nature I dont know.

I am not all that sure she likes Tai Chi we havent done in it a couple of weeks. Perhaps indifferent?

SHe does like to knit or weave and/or latch hook. SHe is doing this now that she is in her own place and just completed a large weave, its more like a decorative towel I think.

She does not like to do things with the radio or tv on in fact its so distracting she has to turn it off. When she was here in the mornings, we woudl get my daughter ready for school and my dad with his morning stuff. The alarm would go off upstairs and she had to drop everything and turn it off. I mean she couldnt even finish pouring milk or getting toast she has to run up there and turn it off...

Same with the microwave beep. Which is much less annoying then alarm clock. Microwave beeps and Im like okay" Im still pouring milk or whatever. But she has to drop everything and get the coffee out of the microwave else that intermittent beeping will drive her up a wall.

We did the outside yard yesterday. It looks nice spent a good deal of time on it. She was happy about it even though she doesnt live here.

She still tells me like "Youve got to close that garage door. Do you want me to close it now or are you going out?" "Go ahead and close it."

She doesnt even live here and she's handing out instructions on the recyling etc. I dont say anythign just trying to listen and follow her if I can...

her b-day today. I am getting a cake and a few small presents..

Originally Posted by easy goer

What happened when she went into hospital was she said that she was afraid of me...that was back in APril she doesnt say that now but who knows??

I would hope she shared what that was about when she was in the hospital.from what you share about her being jumpy sensitive to abrupt load noise she probably doesn't react well to any abrupt anger or shouting.

people can get scared for various reasons . Abuse victiums can have flash backs and not know what they are about .

I came from a home that had screaming and yelling anf some hitting on a daily basis.

If someone gets angry at me and rasies their voice it stays with me for a long time.

I grew up with having 100 % tollerance for it all. I d say it was like living in a firing range . the sound of gun fire was normal. I am Still able to stay stay in such situations But I tend to work them over and over in my mind almost as if I can work them out in the wash cycle.

Thats not a good way to work out what needs to be directed back to the sender,

Her mother pointed out that when she starts stretching for long periods it is a bad sign. This is a very keen observation, she began stretching for like an hour+ at a time, every night just before she went into hospital...

So I look at the nervous rotation of the foot as when the conversation with the therapist is going in a direction she doesnt want. Or sometimes she just does it the entire session so...?

I wouldn't psycho analize things like this as in things going in the wrong direction.
Maybe if she changed the rotation direction...LOL!!!!!

long showers streching other such movements are a way of hyperfocusing on something . could be daydreaaming . could be trying to work out an issue Like I described above. It a form of relaxation.

Leg jerking knuckle poping twirling a foot is just a fidget mannerisum and it helps the brain to be able to focus .

SHe does like to knit or weave and/or latch hook. SHe is doing this now that she is in her own place and just completed a large weave, its more like a decorative towel I think.

nice she was able to COMPLETE it

She does not like to do things with the radio or tv on in fact its so distracting she has to turn it off. When she was here in the mornings, we woudl get my daughter ready for school and my dad with his morning stuff. The alarm would go off upstairs and she had to drop everything and turn it off. I mean she couldnt even finish pouring milk or getting toast she has to run up there and turn it off...

many with ADHD like back ground noise . But if one is focusing on the noise as something they do not want then it can be a distraction.

Yep I was at a movie theater and it was VERY Very loud movie . My date had to keep me from

" she sprang from her seat to see what was a matter"

action
I had no kerchief on . he may have had a hat though.
I believe they call that acting on impulse.

We did the outside yard yesterday. It looks nice spent a good deal of time on it. She was happy about it even though she doesnt live here.

I do not know if you are renting or the house is part hers .

Good for her to feel good about her work .

She still tells me like "You've got to close that garage door. Do you want me to close it now or are you going out?" "Go ahead and close it."

sounds like a mother to me. maybe just being responsible .
I find it so dang funny how I can point out things others need to do and I have thousands of things I do not do .

does any of it matter????? theses little things...

She doesnt even live here and she's handing out instructions on the recyling etc. I dont say anythign just trying to listen and follow her if I can...

Well recycling is caring for the environment. It takes alot of effort to do that . I care about the environment but Im a bit lazey in that department . I take out my trash almost daily out of need for space. I don't like having any more "BINS" to "STORE" more STUFF in my tiny place any more.
I figure the responsibiity needs to start with the manufacturers to stop making convience foods and contaners/ boxes that we are forced to buy.

Thats just me. Im not real hyper in that department. recycling in the old days was mostly composting and hand me down clothes .

So I may respond the same way you do. I might feel judged or a bit guilty and feel like responding " do your recyling on your own time. Il think about doing some myself in ,my own way."

her b-day today. I am getting a cake and a few small presents..

I find this sort of thing amazing. I have never had a man do this for me .Most forget the date.

hope she appreciated it.

Patricia

[easy goer]

The birthday went okay. She said thanks but that was about it. She is just not warm to me at this pt. Very stand offish. Still she celebrated my birthday right after she came out of the hospital, got me a couple of storage things, nothing fancy but it was a nice gesture. our daughter enjoyed it too, I think it is good for her that we can actually act like a family for one day a week. Although the lack of any warmth between me/wife is a off putting to me.

As you suggested I asked her at the marriage counselor, why she does not want to play cards with us. The counselor asked me how I felt and I said I think she is still afraid of me. She asked "Have you asked your wife how she feels?" I said I had a few weeks or months ago but it was quite a while ago "So ask her now. " I did. Wife says "I am intimidated by him. It's not that Im afraid what he says intimidates me..."

My wife is very shy and very quiet as you might have guessed. I mean even when she was not depressed/stressed.

I guess all of this goes back to some childhood personality conflict of some sort. The counselor asked me to respect that. To give her her space and not to take it personally. She's not saying she doesnt love you, just that she needs to be on her own.

It is hard to understand. I pointed out that she can go to the fair with her male friend from church, but she cant relax with me? And she explained that well...he isnt my husband. He's just a friend.

Which sort of makes sense. I just say that it's not that you cant relax you cant relax around ME.

So that's how that went. Things are stable. Progress is hard to measure.

[easy goer]

Oh by the way, the house is mine. I owned it before we got married and never put her name on the deed. Due to financial problems, I could not put her on it last year as we would have to re finance and it would be difficult as I lost a good job and we are struggling now. If we refinanced it would be disadvantageous at least so I thought. At this pt. I am just hoping to get a bailout on the payments...

I know it is hard for her. Her brother would bug me about putting her name on the deed which was just infuriating to me. He started to get involved in one of our squabbles before Easter. he is quite odd; he shows up at holidays with no advance warning. "What time is he coming? " Dont know that how he is...."IS he coming?" "Dont know he comes if he comes.."

He is like that with his parents (my inlaws) as well! Its nutty. Thanxgiving and no one knows if X is coming or not. "Oh we havent heard from him in weeks (he lives about 1/2 an hour away) He comes if he comes...."

He shows up for Easter, the night before. He walks in without knocking...

My wife says she forgave him for the abuse years ago. I dont know why she had to say this, I didnt even ask her. She just sort of put that out there, years ago...

This week in counseling I asked her about all those times she would spend at her brothers. It was like every weekend for two months. "Well he needed me. He broke his ankle There are pins in it. He cant put weight on it.." "I would do anything for my brother he has helped me so much..."

That is the part I dont get. She is like devoted to this odd person who abused her when they were young and who has such odd relationship with the family. When we were first married, he wasnt really much in the picture. I remember asking about him (Her twin) when we first dated. She said she really didnt know him that well despite being twins. "He's himself and I am me. We are not really alike." That was fine.

A few months ago my daughter said to me (this is when my wife ran out of the house in panic and went to stay in a motel with my daughter and her twin brother) that that night in the motel my wife asked her brother "You're not going to hurt me are you?"

It was all rather creepy. Not sure if my daughter has bad feelings about this.

I mentioned earlier (perhaps forgotten) that my wife once (and only once) said "I think I was sexually abused by my brother..." This was after she had gone catatonic a day after giving birth. This was IN FRONT OF the brother! No one said anything...

I have not brought it up. Either in counseling or with her. Do you think it might ever be a time to bring it up? I dont think now is the time.

[mlpHolmes]

Dear Easy Goer,

All beings want to be loved and accepted.

That is something you can give to your family.

Love them completely,

unselfishly,

unconditionally.

All The Best, Always,
Holmes