[ledz]

What is it which drives a person to defend against any and all personal inspection, focal attention, pointed criticism, mere suggestion of wrong doing or error in thinking or even general inquiry of "What are you doing" type questions. It is obvious that rather than risk exposure for questionable behavior, the first line of defense is to "spin" the focus back onto the "messenger". This person is very adept at affixing blame to others and one can hardly finish a sentence introducing a subject without finding themselves under close scrutiny for any number of faults. This person will use any means in denying involvement with or any responsibility for acts resulting in error especially personal harm to another.
If a friend recognizes symptoms of ongoing questionable behavior , having concluded through much witness and research that their friend needs help and that this person has the support of many to assist in getting proper treatment for what is believed to be an undiagnosed personality disorder, and presents this honorably to the friend, what can be said for the subsequent personal attacks on this kind friend which have been so adversarial and aimed at assassinating the character using any outrageous lie or scheme to put that person at dirt level and not to be believed in their accusation of disorder.
This is so contemptable but done so believably by one who does this by defensive habit. What is to be said about this type of personality and to what end?

[pachyderm]

Do you have to interact with this person, to try to "help" him or her?

[Michah]

Hi Ledz, Welcome!

The Universal condition........misplace blame.......for denial is a powerful motivator.......and comfy blanky.......

This person you speak of cannot be told the TRUTH......for the TRUTH must come from within......only they can bring themselves from denial and experience FREEDOM.......

I ask you, how do you protect YOURSELF and still support, still care, still love? You can, but there must be boundaries.......no expectations.......

“He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still”Taoist proverb

Take good care of you Ledz.......and all else shall follow......keep talking

Michah

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by ledz

What is to be said about this type of personality and to what end?

Compassion.



Lenny

[exoterra]

Originally Posted by ledz

What is it which drives a person to defend against any and all personal inspection, focal attention, pointed criticism, mere suggestion of wrong doing or error in thinking or even general inquiry of "What are you doing" type questions. It is obvious that rather than risk exposure for questionable behavior, the first line of defense is to "spin" the focus back onto the "messenger". This person is very adept at affixing blame to others and one can hardly finish a sentence introducing a subject without finding themselves under close scrutiny for any number of faults. This person will use any means in denying involvement with or any responsibility for acts resulting in error especially personal harm to another.
If a friend recognizes symptoms of ongoing questionable behavior , having concluded through much witness and research that their friend needs help and that this person has the support of many to assist in getting proper treatment for what is believed to be an undiagnosed personality disorder, and presents this honorably to the friend, what can be said for the subsequent personal attacks on this kind friend which have been so adversarial and aimed at assassinating the character using any outrageous lie or scheme to put that person at dirt level and not to be believed in their accusation of disorder.
This is so contemptable but done so believably by one who does this by defensive habit. What is to be said about this type of personality and to what end?

Are you talking about your friend for sure? or your client?
My T said to me all those things to me b4.
I know, I know... Don't worry, I don't see him any longer. Thank godness...

I guess my T expected for me to be his friend... OR he thinks that we are equal Very confusing...

Can you believe that if I wasted 6 months of my life depending on this T who insulted me and used me as his test subject and I almost killed myself for him???

[NuckingFutz]

I almost killed myself for a psycopath. Glad you are not seeing your t anymore. Now you can find one to trust so you can heal from the last one.

[Edahn]

Well, you posted this in Borderline, so I assume you know what's up already.

Cheers.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by ledz

What is it which drives a person to defend against any and all personal inspection, focal attention, pointed criticism, mere suggestion of wrong doing or error in thinking or even general inquiry of "What are you doing" type questions. It is obvious that rather than risk exposure for questionable behavior, the first line of defense is to "spin" the focus back onto the "messenger". This person is very adept at affixing blame to others and one can hardly finish a sentence introducing a subject without finding themselves under close scrutiny for any number of faults. This person will use any means in denying involvement with or any responsibility for acts resulting in error especially personal harm to another.
If a friend recognizes symptoms of ongoing questionable behavior , having concluded through much witness and research that their friend needs help and that this person has the support of many to assist in getting proper treatment for what is believed to be an undiagnosed personality disorder, and presents this honorably to the friend, what can be said for the subsequent personal attacks on this kind friend which have been so adversarial and aimed at assassinating the character using any outrageous lie or scheme to put that person at dirt level and not to be believed in their accusation of disorder.
This is so contemptable but done so believably by one who does this by defensive habit. What is to be said about this type of personality and to what end?

maybe this person has in their past been abused, attacked, put down and critisized so much that now that person isnt going to put up with any crap from anyone. maybe their going on the defensive like that is a protection for them. maybe when you do your "personal inspection, focal attention, pointed criticism, mere suggestion of wrong doing or error in thinking or even general inquiry of "What are you doing" type questions." that person goes into flashing into the past so is defending their self against any harm. your doing this to you may seem harmless and constructive but that person only takes those things as abusive to them.

instead of doing your "personal inspection, focal attention, pointed criticism, mere suggestion of wrong doing or error in thinking or even general inquiry of "What are you doing" type questions." you could stay neutral and just say hi and offer things like - "Hi I was gonig to the store is there anything i could pick up for you?" and ask generalized questions like "is there anything I can help you with?" this way the person doesnt see you as one of their abusers from the past. They will see you for a friend that is trying to help. then later on after they are sure you are not like those in the past that have hurt them you can find ways to talk about things in a way that the person wont feel like they are being attacked, put down and abused.

[exoterra]

Originally Posted by Edahn

Well, you posted this in Borderline, so I assume you know what's up already.

Cheers.

OMG, you are right!!!
I didn't know... LOL

[NuckingFutz]

Could also be antisocial personality disorder.

[Rapunzel]

All of that sounds threatening and confrontational to me. I'd probably withdraw as far as I could when faced with that many demands and criticism, and if cornered, I'd strike out like a wounded animal in blind fear to get away.

People develop BPD after a lifetime of invalidation and someone telling us that we are all wrong, selfish, and bad, worthless, and the emotions we think we feel are unwarranted. In order to survive, we learn to defend against criticisms like the ones we grew up with, or withdraw, or split ourselves and other people into black and white, good and bad, polar opposite parts - just to try to make anything make enough sense that we can stand it.

So, what do you hope to accomplish? If you want to help this person, you're going to have to be gentle and honor his or her emotions and self-perception. No matter what someone says or does, there is at least one grain of truth or validity in it. Even if there is a whole bunch that is counterproductive. Find that truth and validate it.

If this person is making you crazy, maybe the best that you can do is get enough distance to preserve your own sanity. People with personality disorders tend to be distressing to others around them. Personality disorders don't get cured instantly, even with professional treatment. It takes time.

[ledz]

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

All of that sounds threatening and confrontational to me. I'd probably withdraw as far as I could when faced with that many demands and criticism, and if cornered, I'd strike out like a wounded animal in blind fear to get away.

People develop BPD after a lifetime of invalidation and someone telling us that we are all wrong, selfish, and bad, worthless, and the emotions we think we feel are unwarranted. In order to survive, we learn to defend against criticisms like the ones we grew up with, or withdraw, or split ourselves and other people into black and white, good and bad, polar opposite parts - just to try to make anything make enough sense that we can stand it.

So, what do you hope to accomplish? If you want to help this person, you're going to have to be gentle and honor his or her emotions and self-perception. No matter what someone says or does, there is at least one grain of truth or validity in it. Even if there is a whole bunch that is counterproductive. Find that truth and validate it.

If this person is making you crazy, maybe the best that you can do is get enough distance to preserve your own sanity. People with personality disorders tend to be distressing to others around them. Personality disorders don't get cured instantly, even with professional treatment. It takes time.

ledz=I have been enlightened . I pray that I may be able to walk that path. It is so hard to not try and "fix" things, people ,especially when it is my gifted talent as one who restores..anything. It's not that I am tinkering with another mind, I see it running roughly and I am compelled to give it a "tune up". I don't have all the answers and shouldn't be doing "tune ups" I know. Your words provide the hope I need .I see the directive and am heading that way.Great challenge. Worthy cause. I thank you =ledz

[Rapunzel]

Thank you for being open minded and willing to understand. It is human to want to try to "fix" other people when it is obvious that they are doing something that doesn't work. The first thing I learned in learning to be a counselor is that we don't "fix" anybody. They will only change when it is their idea. Even if we have the answers, most people will not be able to accept answers from somebody else. They have to discover their own answers for themselves. Helping them to do that is a skill.

[easy goer]

The original poster described my wife almost to a "T". Thing is, she wasnt like this when I married her, but over the last 1-2 years seemed to have developed this more and more.

Well, I dunno, maybe it was always there. I remember when we first me she told me something that she was adept at not promising stuff to people and she always left herself an "out". E.g she would say "I'll think about it" instead of actually promsing something. (the example of promising is somewhat different than arguing about something; but related)

This was really not a big deal at first. In fact it was interesting to get an insight into her personality that way. We really had few arguments or problems for the first 4 or 5 years...

Like it's the freakin dumbest things that would happen. I would be so dumbstruck. The chicken wouldnt be cooked inside and would be like "This is not done you know..."

Or I tried to show her/daughter the RIGHT way to brush teeth...And my wife flips out and says "I'm not a good mother..my daughter has cavities..." I couldnt even teach them how to brush she got so angry and freaked out. I mean brushing teeth for crying out loud! This is not hard...

I tried to teach my wife how to chop vegetables fast by curling your knuckles when using the knife. This is basic. Our daughter was 4 when I taught her this.. I ask my wife. "You know if you curled your knuckles like this, you could go a lot faster..."

SHe gets upset and says she has a hand problem and cant do it that. A hand problem. THere's no reason to even question this, I just left her alone and wondered what the hell??

I ask her to take off her shoes in the house. Cause at this pt. I had to clean the floors (our therapsist suggested giving me tasks to do at home, because wife is freaking out that I'm lazy). So like most people I know take their shoes off at least when they go in the carpeted rooms. Not my wife. She cant. "Why not?" "I have a foot problem..."

Yeah, right a foot problem. Can you understand how frustrating this is? There's no pt. in challenging this. she'll just freak out if you question it...

So I want to echo the original poster and ask what you think the genesis of all these issues is? Is it just abuse? It might help me to deal with it..

For instance. Do BPD people defend themselves using similar techniques that were used on them? Like I try to confront my wife and she accuses me of having an anger problem and her mother starts accusing me of shouting when I questioned her about something. "We have no shouting in this house. I cannot stand shouting.."

My wife would accuse me of being lazy. So here she is in a mental hospital and her father says "You know cutting the grass is a big problem in your house. Dont you think __ having to cut grass made her ill?"

"Are you effin kidding me??" (I thought to myself)

Please dont put us down for not understanding, it is a VERY FRUSTATING thing to endure on our end as well as the one who is suffering.

[Rapunzel]

I often perceive my husband as yelling at me or lecturing me when he is sure that he is not. If he mentions something that I'm doing wrong, it hurts. When he keeps going (maybe because I don't know how to respond and he wants to make sure that he made his point very clear), I fall apart.

People who have no self-esteem, or no confidence, or no sense of identity have more difficulty with any perceived threats to their confidence, self-efficacy, and the way that they do things.

I once became suicidal and close to following through, over someone asking if they could help teach my children better hygiene skills. My sense of purpose and identity as a mom was that fragile.

It's probably not the same stuff for everybody. My parents systematically destroyed my identity and self-confidence. They didn't let me learn basic household skills, and told me that I would fail every time I wanted to try something. They apparently thought that they were being good parents.

One theory is that some of us, some of whom develop BPD, are born more sensitive than other people. We are more susceptible from the start to criticism and invalidation. Parents and the environment tell us from early childhood that we shouldn't be so sensitive, shouldn't get so upset so easily, shouldn't feel mad or bad or sad, etc. And we react with hurt and question ourselves and further lose ourselves and it becomes a vicious circle. Abuse and neglect may or may not be part of the scenario. If they are, it intensifies this cycle.

Emotional invalidation is a typical part of the development of BPD. Here's a link to a blog post I wrote about invalidating environments:
http://rapunzel.psychcentral.net/200...ents-shall-we/

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by easy goer

The original poster described my wife almost to a "T". Thing is, she wasnt like this when I married her, but over the last 1-2 years seemed to have developed this more and more.

Well, I dunno, maybe it was always there. I remember when we first me she told me something that she was adept at not promising stuff to people and she always left herself an "out". E.g she would say "I'll think about it" instead of actually promsing something. (the example of promising is somewhat different than arguing about something; but related)

This was really not a big deal at first. In fact it was interesting to get an insight into her personality that way. We really had few arguments or problems for the first 4 or 5 years...

Like it's the freakin dumbest things that would happen. I would be so dumbstruck. The chicken wouldnt be cooked inside and would be like "This is not done you know..."

Or I tried to show her/daughter the RIGHT way to brush teeth...And my wife flips out and says "I'm not a good mother..my daughter has cavities..." I couldnt even teach them how to brush she got so angry and freaked out. I mean brushing teeth for crying out loud! This is not hard...

I tried to teach my wife how to chop vegetables fast by curling your knuckles when using the knife. This is basic. Our daughter was 4 when I taught her this.. I ask my wife. "You know if you curled your knuckles like this, you could go a lot faster..."

SHe gets upset and says she has a hand problem and cant do it that. A hand problem. THere's no reason to even question this, I just left her alone and wondered what the hell??

I ask her to take off her shoes in the house. Cause at this pt. I had to clean the floors (our therapsist suggested giving me tasks to do at home, because wife is freaking out that I'm lazy). So like most people I know take their shoes off at least when they go in the carpeted rooms. Not my wife. She cant. "Why not?" "I have a foot problem..."

Yeah, right a foot problem. Can you understand how frustrating this is? There's no pt. in challenging this. she'll just freak out if you question it...

So I want to echo the original poster and ask what you think the genesis of all these issues is? Is it just abuse? It might help me to deal with it..

For instance. Do BPD people defend themselves using similar techniques that were used on them? Like I try to confront my wife and she accuses me of having an anger problem and her mother starts accusing me of shouting when I questioned her about something. "We have no shouting in this house. I cannot stand shouting.."

My wife would accuse me of being lazy. So here she is in a mental hospital and her father says "You know cutting the grass is a big problem in your house. Dont you think __ having to cut grass made her ill?"

"Are you effin kidding me??" (I thought to myself)

Please dont put us down for not understanding, it is a VERY FRUSTATING thing to endure on our end as well as the one who is suffering.

I have a queston - why does it matter that your wife and daughter curl their fingers and chop veggies fast? chopped slow or fast they are still chopped vegiies and cooking classes teach chopping slow is actually better and less risk of losing control of the knife and fingers. the only reason chef school teaches curling the fingers and chopping fast is to be able to keep up with the demand of orders in a diner or bigger place to eat. and when you werent helping with keeping the house clean did you without being asked take off your shoes before walking on the carpet. the doctors where Im from are telling people who are flat footted, or cath or get cold easy to leave their socks and shoes on, thers also people who have allergies to dust mites in the carpets, my landlord had to take out my carpeting because it was making me sick giving me foot infections and lallergies., pet dander or the materials and chemicals that go into the making and stain resistant treating carpets can also be reasons to wear thier shoes in the house on carpeting.

n my home both my parents share in the house work and neither one tries to tell the other how to do it.when its my dads turn to do laundry my mom doesnt tell him how to do it when its moms turn to make dinner dad doesnt tell her how to hold a knife and how fast or slow she should be chopping and preparing the meal. all that matters in my family is the work gets done and they both share in doing the chores. So I dont understand what the big deal about whether or not there is a right and a wrong way to chopping veggies. wouldnt it be easier just to say thank you for making dinner tonight, that was a good meal and you chop the veggies how you want to when its your turn to cook and let your wife and daughter do it how ever way they want to when they cook. and I dont undrstand why its such a big deal about taking shoes off on carpet. maybe thats because Im from the mountains and we dont make big deals over wearing or not wearing shoes in the house. lots of times because of heating, colds, allergies to mites, being prone to getting athletes foot every time I went barefoot so i naturally wear my shoes in the house. if its not my shoes then its a paiir of slippers or my pool side water shoes I got for going to the Y. instead of complaining constantly about her wearing shoes in the house couldnt you just buy her a present of a pair of "house shoes" ladys love having lots of pairs of shoes for lots of occasions in lots of collors. they make loafers, sandles loungers, slippers, plushies all kinds of indoor wearing shoes. and they dont cost much in a department store or shop and save and hush puppies and payless shoes stores. theres also runners you can buy in a store for only a few bucks that you can put down on the carpet so that your carpet stays clean and like new.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by ledz

What is it which drives a person to defend against any and all personal inspection, focal attention, pointed criticism, mere suggestion of wrong doing or error in thinking or even general inquiry of "What are you doing" type questions.

well.... it depends on what kind of personal inspection you are doing.

I don't know what you mean by "focal attention."

not many do well in the face of pointed critisisum . again its hard to be able to see and hear what your pointed critisium sounds like over the internet.

What leads a person to defend or be defensive?

whats wrong with defending or stating whats true for them .? thats what forms and distinguises ones idenity rather than leting everyone else define them and thier actions.

Defense in suggestions of doing wrong.. or wrong doing... I guess that depends on her up bringing. Maybe she had a parent who scrutinized her every move and complained about it. Her threshold for being told shes wrong may be very low.

I suppose that could be considered a wounded or weak ego.

It is obvious that rather than risk exposure for questionable behavior, the first line of defense is to "spin" the focus back onto the "messenger". This person is very adept at affixing blame to others and one can hardly finish a sentence introducing a subject without finding themselves under close scrutiny for any number of faults.

yep if someones critisizing me it takes quite bit for me not to bring out my amao ..especially if they are know to be so with others ..
its called mud slinging. one has to have "respect for " and give "permission to" the person dong the critisizing.

She may not have the art of agreeing with the critiquer while silently knowing the person delivering the critique could use a tune up themselves.

If caught off guard one can get triggered and feel the need to fire back.

This person will use any means in denying involvement with or any responsibility for acts resulting in error especially personal harm to another.

again it depends on what you mean by personal harm . Is this physical or emotional or finacial. or destroying a group environment?

Right now it staring to sound sounds like there a group of people and just her.
and that means there has been some gossip happening...

If a friend recognizes symptoms of ongoing questionable behavior , having concluded through much witness and research that their friend needs help and that this person has the support of many to assist in getting proper treatment for what is believed to be an undiagnosed personality disorder, and presents this honorably to the friend,

what can be said for the subsequent personal attacks on this kind friend which have been so adversarial and aimed at assassinating the character using any outrageous lie or scheme to put that person at dirt level and not to be believed in their accusation of disorder.

that last paragraph... reminds me of my kind of writing .

I think what your saying is should I or some other benevolent person tell the personaity disoreder one that they have a personality disorder and risk her retaliating ..with lies..or what appear "to you " to be lies , but could actually be things "about you" which you cannot see in your self..

OR ! they could be just bold face un truths .

In that case I'd say its not worth going through the trouble.

This is so contemptable but done so believably by one who does this by defensive habit. What is to be said about this type of personality and to what end?

again this is vauge. no clear examples explaining what kind of behaviors are so harmful .

I recenly listened to a buisness owner who had caught one of her employess stealing lotto tickets . the employee in turn accused her of giving her medication under the counter for her condition.

That is an exteeme case of boldfaced lieing .. and very damging on may levels.

I would not go to the exteeme of diagnosis or labeling this woman ands doing a intervention .
.
I would just adress each behavior one at a time. try to see her side in her behaviors without accusing . just be curious. you may get a non defensive response back.

I hope you, or who ever is wanting to do the confronting , that both your lives are in pristine order.

You might want to look into a group Like "alanon" for you or your friend.

Patricia

Originally Posted by ledz

ledz=I have been enlightened . I pray that I may be able to walk that path. It is so hard to not try and "fix" things, people ,especially when it is my gifted talent as one who restores..anything. It's not that I am tinkering with another mind, I see it running roughly and I am compelled to give it a "tune up". I don't have all the answers and shouldn't be doing "tune ups" I know. Your words provide the hope I need .I see the directive and am heading that way.Great challenge. Worthy cause. I thank you =ledz

Gifted you say... to restore others to sanity? ...

Gosh...

[easy goer]

Some of the posts above leave with the feeling that you are assuming stuff that is not there. You seem quick to assume certain things and then react to the original post. For instance:


".....instead of complaining constantly about her wearing shoes in the house couldnt you just buy her a present of a pair of "house shoes..."

I DID NOT complain about it constantly. There was nothing that I said to indicate that this was some sort of ongoing battle. I mentioned it to her a couple of times on different days because it was a pain in the *** to try to keep the kitchen floor clean w/ mud being tracked up on it. As soon as I mentioned it she brought up this idea of having a foot problem. She has never been to any doctor for this. She used to run in triathalons and 20k runs..

As soon as the words leave my lips she immediately starts to attack.

Here's another:

"...not many do well in the face of pointed critisisum"

Well yeah that is true. But for myself and I think the other poster, we are not doing pointed criticism. I realize it is hard to get the full picture without being in on the conversation but cant you just trust us for once and accept our side of things?

By "our" I assume myself and the poster are companions or mates of people w/ BPD .We are trying to understand and cope with this. OK? I dont appreciate when you start to question why we are doing this stuff we are trying to help them, and I thought it was helpful

I do not get into gigantic fight or drawn out repeated discussions over cutting vegetables. It was a helpful suggestion I made, which AS SOON AS it is made. Is interpreted as criticism.

I was trying to help my wife cook and suggested that is good idea to salt and pepper certain things before they go into over. Again same response, just starts to react.

As I mentioned in another post. This was always the case it has only been happening over the past year or two. So I am pretty sure it is not some sort of criticism I am doing. We used to get on fine..

ONe more:

"Right now it staring to sound sounds like there a group of people and just her.
and that means there has been some gossip happening..

I am curious how did you get this interpretation from what was posted?

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by easy goer

[One example]

I do not get into gigantic fight or drawn out repeated discussions over cutting vegetables. It was a helpful suggestion I made, which AS SOON AS it is made. Is interpreted as criticism.

Suppose this is completely true, that she reacts instantly, overreacts, then what are you going to do? I think if you understand why a person might act that way, based on their early experiences, you will have a better chance of responding in a way which will be helpful both to her and to you.

That is not easy, though, since probably both of you have, as many people have, prior experiences which make it hard to not react to those experiences. Slowing your reactions can be a start to a more effective way of dealing. I know, not easy.

[easy goer]

"Suppose this is completely true, that she reacts instantly, overreacts, then what are you going to do? I think if you understand why a person might act that way, based on their early experiences, you will have a better chance of responding in a way which will be helpful both to her and to you."

Yes this is exactly where I am at. Can you further help me with two things you mentioned:

1) How should I react. Right now I think I should simply try to tell her how this makes me feel. Example "I feel that when you say this I am being criticized...

Another idea would be to do nothing. ANother would be to ask her how she feels. What do you think.

2) What light can you shed on the origination of this? Is she simply reacting in the way her parents did? I often feel this is the case. Could she be dissassociating herself? I think she had done this at some pt. but not constantly. Is this a defense mechanism? Is she simply being distracted by something that bothers her so she is repressing.

As to the last pt. It seems that conflicts upset her, any sort of possible disagreement is likely to lead to problem for her..What do you think is more likely?

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by easy goer

1) How should I react. Right now I think I should simply try to tell her how this makes me feel. Example "I feel that when you say this I am being criticized...

Another idea would be to do nothing. ANother would be to ask her how she feels. What do you think.

2) What light can you shed on the origination of this? Is she simply reacting in the way her parents did? I often feel this is the case. Could she be dissassociating herself? I think she had done this at some pt. but not constantly. Is this a defense mechanism? Is she simply being distracted by something that bothers her so she is repressing.

Hello easy goer....

I was desparately in Love with a woman who suffered with Borderline Pesonality Disorder. And suffer she did. And suffer I did. Suffering was our relationship.

I went on a binge of learning. I took specialized classes,,read everything I could find about BPD, joined forums, started forums, attended workshops and sought out and befriended other folks with this disorder.

We still suffered. Basic problem. I was trying to fix her.

I couldn't. I could never. I never will.

But I did learn to lessen suffering. I Changed. My expectations changed,,thus my perspective.

She will never change until she decides too. It is hard work. Our BPD membership here will attest to that. BPD is a profound disorder.

My suggestions regarding your questions.

Feelings, though powerfull things, are not real. They are feelings. Feelings become real when action becomes attached to them. As one who Loves a BPD you have seen feelings in action. Lots of them.

They need validation. So chosing to do nothing is generally a mistake. If she trusts you and that is a very big question,,trust is the hardest of all emotions for a BPD sufferer. But if there is some, in some ways,,try to respond to her in a compationate validating way. Campaign for the world of grey. That feelings can be on a continuum,,they do not need to be black/white. When and if she rages..stand back,,give her space. When she calms hold her and tell her that you are sorry for her pain. Encourage her to talk about the feelings that caused her rage. Slowly insitute Loving boundaries concerning rage,,,what you will do. Never what you expect her to do,,,but what you will do. And be consistent in whatever you say...

I could go on and on...but validation is so very important. Patience too...A great recovered BPD once told me that it is a mistake to believe that people who suffer with this disorder do not feel the things we feel.

No,,,they feel 10 times the effect that we do. Imagine feeling a loss any loss expotentially. I can't.

So much of the actions you experience are the coping mechanisms developed to "deal" with these giant rushes of feelings.

Where they came from is different for each person. Like telling me where you got your last cold.

But I will tell you this,,,it was from succesive feelings of emtpiness of a kind and degree that caused extreme disorder. The personality became entangled and developed upon this profound feeling of abandonment. Any feeling that can, in the most inocuous way, be identified with this base feeling will manefest defensive feelings and the actions associated with them.

I hope this helped. You are both on an extraordinary journey.

Lenny

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by easy goer

1) How should I react. Right now I think I should simply try to tell her how this makes me feel. Example "I feel that when you say this I am being criticized...

Another idea would be to do nothing. ANother would be to ask her how she feels. What do you think.

I might try to do something that some would see as "nothing" but I would say is "slow down". Do not get trapped into her feeling that something has to be done now. I think many of the seemingly extreme positions and feelings that one has is because they lived in an emergency situation all their lives and feel that the emergency is still there and if nothing is done right now, nothing will be done ever. You at least need to slow and try to learn from the situation as it happens.

2) What light can you shed on the origination of this?

From my own experience, my guess is it is something along the lines of what I already suggested: in early life, she was subjected to strains that were beyond her capacity as a child to cope with effectively, which sent her into a survival/emergency mode, and she is still there, not knowing that the emergency is in the past and not still present. Anything which lets her know that help is on the way, or at least is possible, will help her to cope now.

[spiritual_emergency]

I may have missed some important parts of the conversation. If my words don't sit well with you, just disregard them.

It sounds as if the pattern of communication is that you say something, she feels criticized and then gets defensive. In the process you feel you don't get heard, your intent to be helpful becomes misconstrued and your concerns don't get validated. Did I understand that correctly?

If that is the case, maybe a slightly different approach could help. For example, if you think you have a good idea (i.e., how to protect fingers from being chopped), ask her -- Would you like me to show you a trick? That allows her the option of choosing if she wants to take your advise or not. If you don't give her the option, she may feel as if you've thrust your ideas or opinions upon her without any regard for how she feels about it. That could trigger her to respond to you defensively because she feels invalidated or criticized.

When it comes to issues like the carpet and floors, maybe you could use "I" statements, i.e., "Honey, when you walk on the carpet with your shoes I feel you don't value the effort I put in to keep them clean." Hopefully, that would allow her to hear your concerns and also allow you to feel that your efforts are appreciated and valued.

Do you think something like that could work for you?

.