[Jypsy]

Hello, everyone! So I just here. I wanted to see if anyone might have some suggestions for trying to pursue therapy again. Sorry for the long background, and I'm not sure if some of my phrasing might be upsetting (please be warned), but I figured I'd give a run-down of my past frustrations, and why I'm feeling disheartened about beating this dead horse...

So some background - I'm 30 now, and when I was 19, the person I'd been dating after high school told me that he talked about me to his psychologist a few times, and his doctor said that based on his descriptions of me, it sounded like I had borderline personality disorder. At the time, I was outraged. But for what it's worth, I guess I've had over a decade to "come to terms".

I started seeing a therapist myself in high school, when I started trying to get emotionally close to people, something I'd only superficially allowed - with capacity for only one "friend" at a time prior to that. I had (surprise, surprise) a fairly traumatic childhood, and my half-sister (who I was really close to) was removed from my home when I was little because of abuse issues. My attempt at intimacy in school was causing less control over my emotions - I'd start to cry for no reason, have angry outbursts and try to start loud shouting matches in the cafeteria. I started dating around that time, and was "convinced" to speak to a public aid counselor through my school by my boyfriend. I'm still not sure what the exact "reason" or diagnosis was for seeing her - I think perhaps depression? She tried to build my self esteem, teach me to accept compliments, tried to lower my perfectionist standards I held myself to, and tried to lessen my self-loathing and the shame and dirtiness I felt (although I doubt she could have even guessed at the extent of any of it). After some time of building my trust and getting me to let my guard down just a bit, she dropped the bomb that her internship was over, and she was leaving.

I didn't see anyone else after her right away. I got the "unofficial", long-distance diagnosis from my boyfriend's therapist a few years later. After my general practitioner started telling me he thought I had depression and prescribing me (very unsuccessful) antidepressants (turns out I have serotonin syndrome, as well), he convinced me to see a psychologist. She was cold, dismissive, and very pushy about wanting to pass me off on other colleagues and medicating me. She also suggested that she thought I had BPD, but all of her actions in retrospect seem counterproductive to providing any help. After about a year or so, I stopped seeing her.

I didn't really bother getting a new therapist till I moved halfway across the country and started really struggling with anxiety and emptiness (homesickness, perhaps). I'd done some research by that point, and even though I didn't have an official diagnosis, I had a few friends who agreed that my symptoms seemed consistent with BPD. I mentioned that in my consultation, and was informed that I'm too "self-aware" to have a personality disorder. Throughout the 2 years of seeing her, she did decide I probably have seasonal affective disorder, general anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and poor diet (she seemed to place a lot of mental-balancing worth on foods high in protein...?) I found myself avoiding being candid because she was so quick to make up her mind about me that it was easier just to ride on her assumptions. After all, I was mainly seeking reprieve from my anxiety, and my appointments with her were like paying for someone to offer validation, so her purpose was essentially served.

During the time with that doctor, I got married (somewhat impulsively, and partially for insurance benefits). I had a steady job, got bored/too stressed out from it (I was getting so anxious some days I'd sit in my car after work for half an hour sobbing, or I'd wake up and throw up because of my stomach getting worked up into knots) and quit. All of this makes me sound like I'm a huge ball of depressed anxiety. Let me back up a bit - I'm typically exuberant to the point of mania on a constant basis. When I slow down and let any "authentic" emotion out, people think I'm depressed. My happiness is a self-defense tactic I've had since I was little, and most of the time, I can't even seem to tell when I'm authentically happy (because distracting myself is so effective), or when I'm empty and "faking it till I make it"...

Back on track - some friends talked me into going back to therapy when I decided that I was having too much of a problem with staying married - and after I cheated on my husband with a friend. My ex (separated now, but not fully divorced) is a really nice person. He's stable, kind-hearted, and responsible, if maybe a bit bland. I couldn't stand the cage of commitment, the demands of filling some sort of role, the structure that is perversely more maddening to me than chaos. So I started seeing a therapist who listed BPD as a specialty. After 6 months of me hoping he'd help me, and trying my hardest to open up (and him setting expectations of my coming up with "goals" for therapy - I have trouble finding reasons to keep from fantasizing about killing myself most days, getting frustrated when I'd shut down and lose my voice, and generally making me feel like I was wasting his time) I told him about hallucinating when I get really stressed out. I'd told him my grandmother has schizophrenia, and his response terrified me - that therapy wouldn't help my symptoms, and I need to see a psychiatrist and I needed medication. Even though I was dealing with a new living situation, recent separation, a fall out with one of my best friends, a new job, and increasing thoughts of self-harm - at the next appointment, he told me he didn't think I'd made any progress, and he wasn't going to schedule a follow up for me. I cried EVERY DAY for the next month - when I woke up, when I went to sleep, curled up on the floor of the shower sobbing, etc.

I scheduled an appointment with a psychiatrist out of desperation. I think a little because I didn't know what else to do, but mostly because I was hoping that this recent rejection would be taken back. I let this stranger in more intimately than all but a couple really close friends, and he decided I was beyond his help. I felt helpless for thinking of him as a sort of friend, or maybe someone who at least cared, because in the end it just made it hurt worse. And, despite my friends trying to convince me otherwise, it certainly seemed personal. This guy who had a job to evaluate me on the most basic of levels decided I was beyond his help. It was awful.

So I pretty much pushed the evaulation out of my head till I got the reminder call about a week before. By that point, I'd waited about 4 months for an appointment, and didn't want to give too short of notice to cancel. Also, the general hopelessness has persisted (along with a seeming inability to resist impusivity and desperate, unsuccessful attempts to "reset my brain" by self medicating - just because I know I'm doing it and that it might not be healthy doesn't mean it's not better than feeling dead inside), so for lack of other options, I decided to suck it up and go. The verdict? That I seem indisputably to have BPD. After a decade of fighting the potential stigma of officiality, I got the verdict I fear I can never escape. There is no hoping that maybe I'm okay after all. Though I still think maybe I can wake up from this 30 year nightmare I call my life.

------------------------------

Now for the issue... The psychiatrist told me that she does provide therapy, but she's worried that I pose a high suicide risk - that my emotional responses seem really strong, and she personally wouldn't even consider treating me without medication. I'd told her that I do cut myself when things get really bad (not that often - like every few months at very most), and that the idea of suicide/having a way out is the only thing that keeps me going sometimes. She said that she might consider taking me on as a patient, but I would have to remove suicidal thoughts and self harm as an option. She rephrased it as - she's not going to waste both of our time if I'm someone who has one foot out the door and isn't going to commit to getting better. I have to "choose life". Is this something that is common? I grew up fearing for my life to the point that well before I was in my teens, I just accepted that if it ended, at least it would end my constant fear, shame, worthlessness, pain, etc - and that knowing that the only sense of power I could feel sometimes was that I could take that decision into my own hands. How can I go from my ONLY means of comfort (even now) when things get really hopeless and out of control, and I feel like I'm completely empty, invisible and alone to the exact opposite? Is she placing too high of a demand on me? Because it certainly feels that way. The thing is, I get these opinions about people - like I feel like she could have all the answers, and I've already decided maybe she could be my beacon of hope - and I don't really know where else to turn at this point. She wasn't happy with my statement, "resigned to living", but if I don't have it in me to end things, I don't want to keep floundering around, sabotaging anything that makes me happy because I don't feel like I deserve happiness, or I get tired of things too quickly, or I'm terrifed of everything - especially feeling things. I guess I just want to know that it can get better (I know this will never go away), and how to even WANT "better"....

[ScarletPimpernel]

Heya Jypsy and welcome.

First, from my experience: things do get better. Just don't expect perfection or results w/o effort.

About the self harm... I have had many professionals and institutions tell me I have to give up self harm. Sometimes I'd comply, sometimes I didn't, and sometimes I'd relapse. My current T makes me promise not to self harm (I do comply, but I also had 1 relapse).

Suicidal thoughts though...no one has ever told me they can't work with me because of them. I have been told that I might need more help than what a certain professional can provide (i.e. hospitalization). Maybe that's what your pdoc means? If professionals feel that you are at risk, they will try their best to help you even if that means directing you some place else.

I hope that things work out for you with your pdoc and I hope you find some support and maybe even some advice from here.

[Maranara]

You need to find a therapist who cares. Do the research...it's not hard these days with the internet...and find one who specializes in BPD or at least knows it well enough to put it on their resume. They usually will work through everything with you.. In the meantime, start working on yourself. Become more "self aware". Read the books, equate it to yourself, get to know yourself as well as possible, and come up with your own self-treatment plan. A lot of people work with DBT, which I think is good but almost impossible to work on on your own. I am big in to the meditation/mindfulness and I can sincerely say it's saved my life a time or two.

Is it easy, no. Can it be done, yes. You can't expect instant relief from your traits. It doesn't work that way, but the more you know yourself and the more you are willing to work on yourself, the more you will see the light at the end of the tunnel. I can give you resources if you'd like....just let me know, and best of luck to you.

[beloiseau]

Welcome, sorry you are going through this. Hope you can find some good advice here! I'm not sure what to say about the pdoc not wanting to treat you related to your suicidal thoughts...To me that seems to be their job. I would find out more information as to why she doesn't feel comfortable, maybe that will help you make a decision. Althought to expect someone to just stop thinking like that, etc. is a hard bargain to ask for.

[catsrhelm]

I would suggest go ahead and get on medication for a while. You can always go off the meds when you feel the time is right. Also try and find a good therapist, and maybe try and keep a journal for a while to help sort out your feelings.

[Wingnut13]

Originally Posted by Jypsy

Hello, everyone! So I just here. I wanted to see if anyone might have some suggestions for trying to pursue therapy again. Sorry for the long background, and I'm not sure if some of my phrasing might be upsetting (please be warned), but I figured I'd give a run-down of my past frustrations, and why I'm feeling disheartened about beating this dead horse...

So some background - I'm 30 now, and when I was 19, the person I'd been dating after high school told me that he talked about me to his psychologist a few times, and his doctor said that based on his descriptions of me, it sounded like I had borderline personality disorder. At the time, I was outraged. But for what it's worth, I guess I've had over a decade to "come to terms".

I started seeing a therapist myself in high school, when I started trying to get emotionally close to people, something I'd only superficially allowed - with capacity for only one "friend" at a time prior to that. I had (surprise, surprise) a fairly traumatic childhood, and my half-sister (who I was really close to) was removed from my home when I was little because of abuse issues. My attempt at intimacy in school was causing less control over my emotions - I'd start to cry for no reason, have angry outbursts and try to start loud shouting matches in the cafeteria. I started dating around that time, and was "convinced" to speak to a public aid counselor through my school by my boyfriend. I'm still not sure what the exact "reason" or diagnosis was for seeing her - I think perhaps depression? She tried to build my self esteem, teach me to accept compliments, tried to lower my perfectionist standards I held myself to, and tried to lessen my self-loathing and the shame and dirtiness I felt (although I doubt she could have even guessed at the extent of any of it). After some time of building my trust and getting me to let my guard down just a bit, she dropped the bomb that her internship was over, and she was leaving.

I didn't see anyone else after her right away. I got the "unofficial", long-distance diagnosis from my boyfriend's therapist a few years later. After my general practitioner started telling me he thought I had depression and prescribing me (very unsuccessful) antidepressants (turns out I have serotonin syndrome, as well), he convinced me to see a psychologist. She was cold, dismissive, and very pushy about wanting to pass me off on other colleagues and medicating me. She also suggested that she thought I had BPD, but all of her actions in retrospect seem counterproductive to providing any help. After about a year or so, I stopped seeing her.

I didn't really bother getting a new therapist till I moved halfway across the country and started really struggling with anxiety and emptiness (homesickness, perhaps). I'd done some research by that point, and even though I didn't have an official diagnosis, I had a few friends who agreed that my symptoms seemed consistent with BPD. I mentioned that in my consultation, and was informed that I'm too "self-aware" to have a personality disorder. Throughout the 2 years of seeing her, she did decide I probably have seasonal affective disorder, general anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and poor diet (she seemed to place a lot of mental-balancing worth on foods high in protein...?) I found myself avoiding being candid because she was so quick to make up her mind about me that it was easier just to ride on her assumptions. After all, I was mainly seeking reprieve from my anxiety, and my appointments with her were like paying for someone to offer validation, so her purpose was essentially served.

During the time with that doctor, I got married (somewhat impulsively, and partially for insurance benefits). I had a steady job, got bored/too stressed out from it (I was getting so anxious some days I'd sit in my car after work for half an hour sobbing, or I'd wake up and throw up because of my stomach getting worked up into knots) and quit. All of this makes me sound like I'm a huge ball of depressed anxiety. Let me back up a bit - I'm typically exuberant to the point of mania on a constant basis. When I slow down and let any "authentic" emotion out, people think I'm depressed. My happiness is a self-defense tactic I've had since I was little, and most of the time, I can't even seem to tell when I'm authentically happy (because distracting myself is so effective), or when I'm empty and "faking it till I make it"...

Back on track - some friends talked me into going back to therapy when I decided that I was having too much of a problem with staying married - and after I cheated on my husband with a friend. My ex (separated now, but not fully divorced) is a really nice person. He's stable, kind-hearted, and responsible, if maybe a bit bland. I couldn't stand the cage of commitment, the demands of filling some sort of role, the structure that is perversely more maddening to me than chaos. So I started seeing a therapist who listed BPD as a specialty. After 6 months of me hoping he'd help me, and trying my hardest to open up (and him setting expectations of my coming up with "goals" for therapy - I have trouble finding reasons to keep from fantasizing about killing myself most days, getting frustrated when I'd shut down and lose my voice, and generally making me feel like I was wasting his time) I told him about hallucinating when I get really stressed out. I'd told him my grandmother has schizophrenia, and his response terrified me - that therapy wouldn't help my symptoms, and I need to see a psychiatrist and I needed medication. Even though I was dealing with a new living situation, recent separation, a fall out with one of my best friends, a new job, and increasing thoughts of self-harm - at the next appointment, he told me he didn't think I'd made any progress, and he wasn't going to schedule a follow up for me. I cried EVERY DAY for the next month - when I woke up, when I went to sleep, curled up on the floor of the shower sobbing, etc.

I scheduled an appointment with a psychiatrist out of desperation. I think a little because I didn't know what else to do, but mostly because I was hoping that this recent rejection would be taken back. I let this stranger in more intimately than all but a couple really close friends, and he decided I was beyond his help. I felt helpless for thinking of him as a sort of friend, or maybe someone who at least cared, because in the end it just made it hurt worse. And, despite my friends trying to convince me otherwise, it certainly seemed personal. This guy who had a job to evaluate me on the most basic of levels decided I was beyond his help. It was awful.

So I pretty much pushed the evaulation out of my head till I got the reminder call about a week before. By that point, I'd waited about 4 months for an appointment, and didn't want to give too short of notice to cancel. Also, the general hopelessness has persisted (along with a seeming inability to resist impusivity and desperate, unsuccessful attempts to "reset my brain" by self medicating - just because I know I'm doing it and that it might not be healthy doesn't mean it's not better than feeling dead inside), so for lack of other options, I decided to suck it up and go. The verdict? That I seem indisputably to have BPD. After a decade of fighting the potential stigma of officiality, I got the verdict I fear I can never escape. There is no hoping that maybe I'm okay after all. Though I still think maybe I can wake up from this 30 year nightmare I call my life.

------------------------------

Now for the issue... The psychiatrist told me that she does provide therapy, but she's worried that I pose a high suicide risk - that my emotional responses seem really strong, and she personally wouldn't even consider treating me without medication. I'd told her that I do cut myself when things get really bad (not that often - like every few months at very most), and that the idea of suicide/having a way out is the only thing that keeps me going sometimes. She said that she might consider taking me on as a patient, but I would have to remove suicidal thoughts and self harm as an option. She rephrased it as - she's not going to waste both of our time if I'm someone who has one foot out the door and isn't going to commit to getting better. I have to "choose life". Is this something that is common? I grew up fearing for my life to the point that well before I was in my teens, I just accepted that if it ended, at least it would end my constant fear, shame, worthlessness, pain, etc - and that knowing that the only sense of power I could feel sometimes was that I could take that decision into my own hands. How can I go from my ONLY means of comfort (even now) when things get really hopeless and out of control, and I feel like I'm completely empty, invisible and alone to the exact opposite? Is she placing too high of a demand on me? Because it certainly feels that way. The thing is, I get these opinions about people - like I feel like she could have all the answers, and I've already decided maybe she could be my beacon of hope - and I don't really know where else to turn at this point. She wasn't happy with my statement, "resigned to living", but if I don't have it in me to end things, I don't want to keep floundering around, sabotaging anything that makes me happy because I don't feel like I deserve happiness, or I get tired of things too quickly, or I'm terrifed of everything - especially feeling things. I guess I just want to know that it can get better (I know this will never go away), and how to even WANT "better"....

Just after I started therapy I attempted suicide. When my T found out she told me "I don't treat dead people". And she almost put me in the hospital. I had to agree to go on medication to stay out of the hospital. I have been seeing my T for a few months now and she knows I still have suicidal thoughts and have been very close to trying again. But she also says I have started getting better. I don't see it but she does. I have promised her that I will call her first if I am feeling suicidal and talk it out. I have also agreed to start dbt next month.
I was a lot like you when I first started my journey,lots of self hatred,etc... I am here to tell you it can get better and will. I am only a few months into therapy but I am very happy with my T and trust her completely. And I will continue to follow the direction she is taking me because I know it's the right thing to do for my mental health.
It helps to post here,I have only been here since Christmas time last year but already have found lots of supportive people here and even made some friends .
If it wasn't for my T and this site I might not be alive today.
Don't give up

[live2ski66]

I agree, you are paying for the Doc, it is not a free service so they should meet your needs. I've been doing this for 24+ years, I've come up with a few tricks. First, I hand them a document of my history with this current life. I am quite blunt that I believe in better living through pharmaceuticals, I have no interest in changing drugs and adding herbs and other natural stuff I don't believe in. I'm not completely opposed to changing meds, there are always better treatments, I object to the doc who wants to change your meds on day 1 because they have a relationship with a pharmaceutical rep from another company. I don't use insurance for my mental health, I don't want a record. A few years ago I was in crisis and went to see the local shrink who was more interested in his photography than on me. So I called the shrink at the mental health center and hospital. The ***** secretary would not let me schedule an appointment until I had a diagnosis from my GP. My relationships with previous doctors did not make a difference. I told her again I was in crisis and she could care less. I sent a scathing letter to the review and licensing board. It is abhorrent that a psychiatrist refuses to see someone in crisis just because they don't have a GP. I've made it my mission to tell as many people as I can about this. This man doesn't deserve to practice medicine. Finally I have attempted suicide at the beginning of this journey. I still think about it, but have not acted on the idea. With every therapist/doctor I make a pact. I promise to email or call them any time I think about suicide. So far it has worked, my therapist trusts me and we don't focus solely on suicide during our sessions.