[angelicgoldfish05]

So a part of BPD supposedly, is this black and white, all or nothing thinking. I'm wondering if any of you experience this, and if so, how it is evident in your life.

I've been thinking about this today and how I almost want the grey area and welcome it. I'm not sure I want to be all or nothing, black or white, or be pigeon-holed into something or pinned down. Most recently I was thinking about smoking cigarettes and how I had quit for almost two years, but now I want one every now and then. I don't want to be a smoker, but I guess I don't want to be a non-smoker either. I think this is because when you are one thing or another, a person can use that against you. I don't know where I was going with this but it had something to do with being in the middle of parents who are arguing and parents who use their children as a weapon in an argument. Anyways, it makes me want to welcome the grey, and not be all one way or all another for some reason.

Just wondering what it is like - black and white thing, or finding the grey - for others. Thanks and best

[i dont matter]

I definitely have the black&white thing.....

If one person looks at me wrong - then "everyone hates me". Or if the smallest thing that goes wrong can spin me into a "life is not worth living" mentality that is simply stupid.

I know it is stupid and irrational - but I can not control it (or at least I can not control it yet - I am hoping my DBT will help).

I can not speak for everyone - but this is probably the worst trait to change (in my opinion) because to WANT to change requires faith - and faith does not go well with learning new skills.

[Trippin2.0]

I'm definitly the text book all or nothing, black and white, love or hate, and even the go big or go home type.

Speaking of which... has blown many a paycheque on gifts for others and put me in debt numerous times over the years

I struggle to identify shades of grey, and placing me inside of them is HIGHLY uncomfortable. It makes me feel uncertain, and its just really foreign as I've always been this way.

That being said, I know grey is not the devil, and try to be ok with it when I know the situation calls for it. How do I know the situation calls for it since I can't identify it?

My bf is my Designated Grey Navigator

Ps. I'm learning to give emotionally big gifts as opposed to currency big, and I'm making progress

[ifst5]

I think ultimately the 'grey' is more useful. For me, remaining in 'black and white' mode means being tied down, trapped and immobile. It also makes me accountable for more than i would be otherwise. Grey doesn't have to mean 'uncertain' - in fact it's quite freeing, you can allow yourself a measure of difference, a taste of something else without leaping outside of whatever carefully laid boundaries you've set up.

For example; 'That person doesn't appear to like me, but actually they don't know me so do i don't need to know about their opinions.' That for me is so much better than; 'that person doesn't like me and others probably feel the same.'

It's not always that easy and/or clear cut but all i know is that when i'm not happy i've got to at least try and shift the perspective to something else otherwise the situation definitely won't change.

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by i dont matter

I definitely have the black&white thing.....

If one person looks at me wrong - then "everyone hates me". Or if the smallest thing that goes wrong can spin me into a "life is not worth living" mentality that is simply stupid.

I know it is stupid and irrational - but I can not control it (or at least I can not control it yet - I am hoping my DBT will help).

I can not speak for everyone - but this is probably the worst trait to change (in my opinion) because to WANT to change requires faith - and faith does not go well with learning new skills.

I get that, and I've definitely felt similarly in situations when I've been more stressed out. It is stress related for me I think. I also agree that it seems to not be a choice - like it seems out of control to just jump to that conclusion. It can turn a world very dark quickly and for me, I know I have become deeply depressed one moment over what seems like nothing, and then the next day (or hour even at times) I'm fine again.

I hope DBT skills help you also. Do you feel you want to change this? Change is hard, why can't the world just change I think you are brave for wanting to change if you do. I think for me, the situation became painful so I just started therapy again and going to get beack on an antidepressant, but if we had a DBT group phere in town (we don't, it is small town but I'd love to help start one maybe), then maybe I'd think about going. I have some papers from my T about the skills I think. I even went to a group when I lived in a different town for awhile, and in retrospect, the stuff I learned there was extremely helpful and beneficial. We were working out of the book - Emotional Regulation (I can't find the title of it right now, but I'll get back on that)... The therapist leading the group talked about embracing the grey - or something like that - on one of the days. I guess I get how everything seems to change from one day to the next, or even in the same day. Anyways, sorry I'm rambling, thanks for your reply though. How do you think the faith part does not go well with learning new skills? It does seem an important piece, for me it has to do with having faith in the good - the good in me and also the good in others, which can be hard at times to do consciously if you have been hurt in the past. Like if there is a stressful situation, you don't choose your reaction, it is triggered and just happens on a level that is not conscious. Or something like that anyways...

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

I'm definitly the text book all or nothing, black and white, love or hate, and even the go big or go home type.

Speaking of which... has blown many a paycheque on gifts for others and put me in debt numerous times over the years

I struggle to identify shades of grey, and placing me inside of them is HIGHLY uncomfortable. It makes me feel uncertain, and its just really foreign as I've always been this way.

That being said, I know grey is not the devil, and try to be ok with it when I know the situation calls for it. How do I know the situation calls for it since I can't identify it?

My bf is my Designated Grey Navigator

Ps. I'm learning to give emotionally big gifts as opposed to currency big, and I'm making progress

I think it's great you know about yourself that you have designated bf to be the Grey Navigator. It is good you have this person for you in your life looking out for your best interest at heart.

Interesting you say that grey is not the devil, cause it can seem like that can't it! When you can't pin something down, it is hard to know if they are good or bad, for you or against you, etc. I guess black and white is good for these things. Yes there is a right and wrong, without it, our world would be chaos. I think it is challenging if a person did not get the right and wrong piece, or if wrong was forced on them as right, or any other number of ways that childhood stuff can go wrong through abusive situations or methods of parenting. Does that make sense?

I know when the day came to talk about the grey in the DBT skills group I was going to (not an official DBT group, but along the same lines) I was not ready to hear it. I was scared of grey. I still go black and white about some things, but I guess there are other times where I want the grey, and I think it is mostly when it can be a way to not try and take one side or the other because I don't want one person to use me and pit me against another.

Anyways, I think it is good you are learning to give big gifts emotionally, and that is inspiring to me. What kinds of things are you trying with this? I wonder why it is to try and give big gifts anyways, why is it not enough just us being who we are? we not enough just us as is?

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by ifst5

I think ultimately the 'grey' is more useful. For me, remaining in 'black and white' mode means being tied down, trapped and immobile. It also makes me accountable for more than i would be otherwise. Grey doesn't have to mean 'uncertain' - in fact it's quite freeing, you can allow yourself a measure of difference, a taste of something else without leaping outside of whatever carefully laid boundaries you've set up.

For example; 'That person doesn't appear to like me, but actually they don't know me so do i don't need to know about their opinions.' That for me is so much better than; 'that person doesn't like me and others probably feel the same.'

It's not always that easy and/or clear cut but all i know is that when i'm not happy i've got to at least try and shift the perspective to something else otherwise the situation definitely won't change.

Well that is an insight, maybe I use grey to not be held accountable! It is too much to try and be perfect, I want the grey. To me it is an expectation to be perfect, like with no-smoking, must go all or nothing. Be quit forever, or it is no good and I fail again. So in that sense, I'm very all or nothing, black and white, but it hasn't been useful. I will never be perfect, I can't even believe that was an honest expectation, but this is where finding the grey has been useful (and downright necessary) for me.

I like how you say you know you have to at least try and shift the perspective, it is a good starting point to know and recognize when something is no longer working for you, and know that you want to try and do something about it. I think we all try to do the best we can. Thanks for your reply

[Trippin2.0]

Originally Posted by angelicgoldfish05

I think it's great you know about yourself that you have designated bf to be the Grey Navigator. It is good you have this person for you in your life looking out for your best interest at heart.

Interesting you say that grey is not the devil, cause it can seem like that can't it! When you can't pin something down, it is hard to know if they are good or bad, for you or against you, etc. I guess black and white is good for these things. Yes there is a right and wrong, without it, our world would be chaos. I think it is challenging if a person did not get the right and wrong piece, or if wrong was forced on them as right, or any other number of ways that childhood stuff can go wrong through abusive situations or methods of parenting. Does that make sense?

Perfect sense! Another thing I would like to add is that, as limiting as black & white may seem, it is also a safer route (for me atleast) because grey is open to (mis)interpretation from others and also the consequences may not always be clear

I know when the day came to talk about the grey in the DBT skills group I was going to (not an official DBT group, but along the same lines) I was not ready to hear it. I was scared of grey. I still go black and white about some things, but I guess there are other times where I want the grey, and I think it is mostly when it can be a way to not try and take one side or the other because I don't want one person to use me and pit me against another.
I have thankfully found my designated grey area in these conflicted type situations in my friendships. Instead of being forced into taking sides and proclaiming which party I deem right or wrong, I explain each person's perspective to the other in a way they both understand. Thus leaving me out of the equation

Anyways, I think it is good you are learning to give big gifts emotionally, and that is inspiring to me. What kinds of things are you trying with this?

Well my gift giving has taken a more symbolic route. For example, last year for bf's birthday I broke the already cracked bank and bought a PS3 and some games... but by Christmas I was broke(n) lol, and unemployed and stressing about what to get him!! Then I found this cheapass dog tag thingy, but instead of the dog tag it had an anchor attached to it.
Why that's fantastic you ask? Let me explain:

Bf is busy fullfilling his dream of getting his Yacht Master licence ( which with all my abandonment issues, he was scared I wouldn't support ) and I've always referred to bf as my anchor, which started many years before we even started dating.

So that little anchor was a show of support, faith and appreciation all in one.

I was very anxious and unsure giving it to him though. It was the very first small gift I've ever given and I was scared he would hate it.

Turns out he loves it very much, which lead to this lil anchor gift inspiring similar symbolic type gifts for other loved ones in my life.

I wonder why it is to try and give big gifts anyways, why is it not enough just us being who we are? we not enough just us as is?

I honestly don't know why, because I don't expect to receive big.

If I were to take a guess though?

Firstly; I'm a giver.

Secondly I want to be certain my gift is INCREDIBLE, and thus received ethusiastically.

Thirdly; my issues / disorders fall within the "over the top" range (BPD,BP&OCD) so I'm sure that plays a part in my over the top giving...

Fourthly; I have struggled a lot with never feeling like I'm enough (but on the flipside feeling like I'm also too much) so maybe that's why I also like to give big. To make absolutely sure its enough and nothing more could be expected, that I didn't fall short somehow.

I used to believe that its better to buy nothing if I can't buy the best item, I'm glad I've manage to locate the grey there. Thanks to that el cheapo anchor that caught my eye 1 day.

Originally Posted by angelicgoldfish05

So a part of BPD supposedly, is this black and white, all or nothing thinking. I'm wondering if any of you experience this, and if so, how it is evident in your life.

I've been thinking about this today and how I almost want the grey area and welcome it. I'm not sure I want to be all or nothing, black or white, or be pigeon-holed into something or pinned down. Most recently I was thinking about smoking cigarettes and how I had quit for almost two years, but now I want one every now and then. I don't want to be a smoker, but I guess I don't want to be a non-smoker either. I think this is because when you are one thing or another, a person can use that against you. I don't know where I was going with this but it had something to do with being in the middle of parents who are arguing and parents who use their children as a weapon in an argument. Anyways, it makes me want to welcome the grey, and not be all one way or all another for some reason.

Just wondering what it is like - black and white thing, or finding the grey - for others. Thanks and best

I honestly didn't know there was a grey area. I only found out by a therapist telling me and reading about it. I still don't see it (I am trying but it's not registering at all). My teenager tells me all the time that I only see black or white.

[waiting4]

I guess because I have no idea what it's supposed to feel like 'living in the grey', says it all, for me.

If I'm close...or satisfied or interested, then I'm there all the way. If I get hurt...I totally shut down, shut out...move away and never look back. Ever.

Nope. Not a bit of grey...not even a shade.

[Achy Turtle Armor]

This is a good topic.

[serolod]

I thought I was the only one giving out ridiculously big gifts!! I slowed that down when my husband and I started to save for a house and a family... no money, no big gifts. lol. Took a lot of self control at first but now it's better. I think I don't do it so much anymore b/c I'm afraid of what hubby will say.

I've been trying really hard to work on the grey. I'm able to see grey areas sometimes but I have to make a conscious effort and tell myself there can be an "in-between" in this situation. Either that or my husband's reaction to MY reaction will let me know!