[sideblinded]

Hi Gang

My name is Val. I saw one pdoc who thinks I have adult ADHD and one psychologist who thinks I do not have ADHD but instead Borderline Personality Disorder. I am so sure that the psychiatrist is right on, but I don't agree with the psychologist about not having ADHD. I only agree that I have some borderline traits but I do not fit the most significant traits like self harm and suicidal preoccupation or any dissociations. So, I am here on this site to learn and be open to it's possibility. I know that one can have both ADHD and a personality disorder like borderline so I have to be at least open. I feel lost as opposed to empty due to the fact that I do not have family or close friends. Whether I make drastic choices or decisions to avoid abandonment is questionable. So many symptoms overlap in these two mindsets. I am an ACOA so there is neglect involved in my upbringing.

I do have GAD, dysthymia, sleep problems, not to mention an undiagnosed childhood history of ADHD. So I will be reading your posts to see if I fit in.

Is it possible to not have self harm or suicidal ideation and be borderline?

[Trippin2.0]

Hello and welcome

In answer to your question, there's no rule that says we must have all the symptoms to be diagnosed, we just have to have most of them.

Some of us actually have a type of fluidity regarding our symptoms, where for example SI was a problem, but now it isn't, and dissociation was never an issue, but these days it is...

Borderline is a weird beast

To PC, I hope you find what you seek here

[sideblinded]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Hello and welcome

In answer to your question, there's no rule that says we must have all the symptoms to be diagnosed, we just have to have most of them.

Some of us actually have a type of fluidity regarding our symptoms, where for example SI was a problem, but now it isn't, and dissociation was never an issue, but these days it is...

Borderline is a weird beast

To PC, I hope you find what you seek here

Yeah, I read the DSM criteria and I seem to meet 4 out of the 9 criteria. Maybe I am just not aware of one or more of them. You have to meet 5 out of the 9 to be diagnosed. Thanks for your reply!

[Kimaya]

Definitely not. Its not even a major criteria. Although, there is a rift in the professional community about how to diagnose personality disorders which happened recently with the publication of DSM-5 (the how to diagnose a patient book), so suffice to say, really its all up in the air. In other words: they don't know.

I don't NSSI except in extreme circumstances and usually in anger to show how much pain I am in. Unfortunately, I did get stuck with ideation... yea, and I am afraid to die loool. Wasn't always this way, but once you head down a path I think it becomes a very learned mechanism.

Although you will find, sadly, that even professionals will look for those symptoms as the ultimate tell-tale - not entirely their fault, mostly a whole lot of inexperience (BPD patients generally are most obvious at low functioning conventional levels - i.e. in the hospital not in a clinic settings - and a clinician is not as likely to recognize mild or high functioning BPD because they associate the diagnosis with the low functioning type)... and existing stigma/beliefs among professionals which needs to be addressed.

Problems like suicidal ideation and self harm are pathological (meaning caused by the source problem) and stem from poor/immature defense mechanisms for the ego when it is in danger, as the hypothesis goes (reading across multiple sources). That means there can be a variety of developed types of alternate coping methods.

Major personality functioning criteria for BPD (at this time) are (*some examples of my own* accompanying because its easier to get... er I hope)

Identity - Unstable self image. You hate yourself, you love yourself, you feel like an alien compared to everyone else, you can't help but let others define who you are with their judgement, the world makes no sense, you don't belong here or anywhere, and it is filled with uncertainty and pain.
Self-Direction - Values, career goals, plans for the future change often, and decision making takes much longer. Uncertainty about what to do, what is right and wrong, and the desire for someone who knows what they are doing to help you move along in life are frequent. You switch jobs, school, plans a lot. Staying 'on track' is a constant challenge.
Empathy - You do not get social cues, communication or people in general. Misinterpretation of actions, words, expressions, etc are frequent- mostly in the negative. Basically, you take a neutral behavior and turn it into something hostile towards you or a negative trait of the other person.
IntimacyYou suck at relationships. You can't trust, you fear what the other person truly feels for you, which is probably not what you think it is, and you are afraid that you will be right, they will turn out to be bad, to hurt you, or to leave you - which will devastate you. When all is well you need them so much, when things are bad you want to run away from them or frantically need to fix it right NOW. Even at 3am.

Anyway, hope it was at least entertaining. If you meet two or more of those above, you fit the first part of the diagnosis. Pathological traits come next. I wasn't sure about my diagnosis either, but the longer I have been in this forum and reading my books I feel at home. Definitely hang around to see some other examples of pretty standard BPDness. I think you have a good idea.

TLDR:

What are some of the symptoms your psychiatrist is giving as BPD traits/or which four do you match, did they say? If you feel comfortable sharing of course. Do any of the above examples fit you, or some alternate versions of them? I find the DSM-5 criteria to be easier for diagnosis because it separates pathological traits from personality functioning instead of lumping them together as in DSM-4.

Wish I could help with ADHD, but alas I know nothing there, I think it has a decent level of co-morbidity from what I have seen in the forum so far. Welcome to the forum!

[trying2survive]

Originally Posted by SideBlinded

Hi Gang

My name is Val. I saw one pdoc who thinks I have adult ADHD and one psychologist who thinks I do not have ADHD but instead Borderline Personality Disorder. I am so sure that the psychiatrist is right on, but I don't agree with the psychologist about not having ADHD. I only agree that I have some borderline traits but I do not fit the most significant traits like self harm and suicidal preoccupation or any dissociations. So, I am here on this site to learn and be open to it's possibility. I know that one can have both ADHD and a personality disorder like borderline so I have to be at least open. I feel lost as opposed to empty due to the fact that I do not have family or close friends. Whether I make drastic choices or decisions to avoid abandonment is questionable. So many symptoms overlap in these two mindsets. I am an ACOA so there is neglect involved in my upbringing.

I do have GAD, dysthymia, sleep problems, not to mention an undiagnosed childhood history of ADHD. So I will be reading your posts to see if I fit in.

Is it possible to not have self harm or suicidal ideation and be borderline?

very much so,I don't SI and Si is not necessary to be diagnosed.i do engage in risky and impulsive behavior but i have NEVER cut.

each person is different and from my understanding you need to meet only 5 of the criteria to be diagnosed.

[sideblinded]

Originally Posted by Kimaya

Definitely not. Its not even a major criteria. Although, there is a rift in the professional community about how to diagnose personality disorders which happened recently with the publication of DSM-5 (the how to diagnose a patient book), so suffice to say, really its all up in the air. In other words: they don't know.

I don't NSSI except in extreme circumstances and usually in anger to show how much pain I am in. Unfortunately, I did get stuck with ideation... yea, and I am afraid to die loool. Wasn't always this way, but once you head down a path I think it becomes a very learned mechanism.

Although you will find, sadly, that even professionals will look for those symptoms as the ultimate tell-tale - not entirely their fault, mostly a whole lot of inexperience (BPD patients generally are most obvious at low functioning conventional levels - i.e. in the hospital not in a clinic settings - and a clinician is not as likely to recognize mild or high functioning BPD because they associate the diagnosis with the low functioning type)... and existing stigma/beliefs among professionals which needs to be addressed.

Wow,

Problems like suicidal ideation and self harm are pathological (meaning caused by the source problem) and stem from poor/immature defense mechanisms for the ego when it is in danger, as the hypothesis goes (reading across multiple sources). That means there can be a variety of developed types of alternate coping methods.

Major personality functioning criteria for BPD (at this time) are (*some examples of my own* accompanying because its easier to get... er I hope)

Identity - Unstable self image. You hate yourself, you love yourself, you feel like an alien compared to everyone else, you can't help but let others define who you are with their judgement, the world makes no sense, you don't belong here or anywhere, and it is filled with uncertainty and pain.
Self-Direction - Values, career goals, plans for the future change often, and decision making takes much longer. Uncertainty about what to do, what is right and wrong, and the desire for someone who knows what they are doing to help you move along in life are frequent. You switch jobs, school, plans a lot. Staying 'on track' is a constant challenge.
Empathy - You do not get social cues, communication or people in general. Misinterpretation of actions, words, expressions, etc are frequent- mostly in the negative. Basically, you take a neutral behavior and turn it into something hostile towards you or a negative trait of the other person.
IntimacyYou suck at relationships. You can't trust, you fear what the other person truly feels for you, which is probably not what you think it is, and you are afraid that you will be right, they will turn out to be bad, to hurt you, or to leave you - which will devastate you. When all is well you need them so much, when things are bad you want to run away from them or frantically need to fix it right NOW. Even at 3am.

Anyway, hope it was at least entertaining. If you meet two or more of those above, you fit the first part of the diagnosis. Pathological traits come next. I wasn't sure about my diagnosis either, but the longer I have been in this forum and reading my books I feel at home. Definitely hang around to see some other examples of pretty standard BPDness. I think you have a good idea.

TLDR:

What are some of the symptoms your psychiatrist is giving as BPD traits/or which four do you match, did they say? If you feel comfortable sharing of course. Do any of the above examples fit you, or some alternate versions of them? I find the DSM-5 criteria to be easier for diagnosis because it separates pathological traits from personality functioning instead of lumping them together as in DSM-4.

Wish I could help with ADHD, but alas I know nothing there, I think it has a decent level of co-morbidity from what I have seen in the forum so far. Welcome to the forum!

This information is really helpful! I do fit quite a bit of the above criteria that you mentioned. I am not well educated in this disorder yet, so it is kinda new to me. I am not going to fight a therapist if she feels that BPD is a diagnosis as it is a personality trait. I need medication for the ADHD and comorbid GAD, dysthymia, insomnia and irritable moods. I am more worried that I get the correct diagnoses as the meds really dictate a quality of life, imo. If the meds are not right, it makes life miserable. I am set up for a new therapist in a couple of weeks. I couldn't afford the psychologist. I didn't like her, anyway. She was quite boastful about her skills and I am leary of quick assessments. I need time with a therapist and a good pdoc. Thanks for your help.

Originally Posted by SideBlinded

Hi Gang

My name is Val. I saw one pdoc who thinks I have adult ADHD and one psychologist who thinks I do not have ADHD but instead Borderline Personality Disorder. I am so sure that the psychiatrist is right on, but I don't agree with the psychologist about not having ADHD. I only agree that I have some borderline traits but I do not fit the most significant traits like self harm and suicidal preoccupation or any dissociations. So, I am here on this site to learn and be open to it's possibility. I know that one can have both ADHD and a personality disorder like borderline so I have to be at least open. I feel lost as opposed to empty due to the fact that I do not have family or close friends. Whether I make drastic choices or decisions to avoid abandonment is questionable. So many symptoms overlap in these two mindsets. I am an ACOA so there is neglect involved in my upbringing.

I do have GAD, dysthymia, sleep problems, not to mention an undiagnosed childhood history of ADHD. So I will be reading your posts to see if I fit in.

Is it possible to not have self harm or suicidal ideation and be borderline?

Yes, it's possible to have borderline without self harming or sui. Although people who are borderline tend to self-sabotage.

The DSM is very descriptive and behavioral so it doesn't account for the internal states of those suffering borderline personality disorder. For example, people suffering from borderline often do not have the ability to self-soothe. Insomnia is often a result of lack of self-soothing capability (and you won't find "inability to self-soothe" in the BPD criteria).

Children who have impulse control issues and insecure attachment can be given an ADD dx. ADD can actually be just a symptom of the larger picture. Usually people who have multiple axis I dx, imo, are borderline. For example, ADD, GAD, OCD, insomnia...point to emotional dysregulation when considered as a whole.

The most significant difference is BPD will cause relational/attachment problems, while axis I disorders generally do not. So if you don't have fears and anxieties about relationships, including the relationship with yourself/your identity, maybe you don't have it?

I think it's important to know so that you get the right treatment.

[Kimaya]

Skies makes a good point about the relationship criteria being a defining aspect of BPD versus other disorders. Most of the material I have been reading suggests experts consider this to be the hallmark of BPD. I don't know of any BPD either IRL or in this forum here who doesn't have interpersonal relationship problems.

BPD tends to have one or two friends at most at a time - many have none - and go from feeling a very strong connection to that person to destroying the relationship with our behaviors.

About a year ago I didn't know much either Lots of reading, and self-examination, plus listening to other folks with the disorder like you are doing.

Hey Val,

I read your post at the ADD forum where you mention relational issues. although i'm no expert, to me you sound like you have BPD. But there is so much stigma with that dx, you would not want that dx in your medical record. I think I am pretty borderline but have only been diagnosed with PTSD, GAD, dysthymia, major depression, and adjustment disorder. There might have been more, but no one told me in all of these years that I could be borderline.

Distraction, inattentiveness, and impulse issues are not ADD. Actually, all of the personality disorders come with cognitive issues and several with impulse control issues. Depression and anxiety of course can cause cognitive problems. I have major attention problems, but I think mine are related to anxiety and memory issues from major dissociation...

There is a lot of overlap, and of course someone can have ADD plus another disorder, such as a PD. Psychiatrists might say that ADD inattentiveness, etc., vs. being a symptom from other mental disorders can be discerned by what's causing the distraction. With ADD, the person is distracted from outside sensory interruptions only-a car driving by, too much color in the room, etc. If someone is distracted by thoughts or worries, for example, it's likely not ADD.

[sideblinded]

Originally Posted by Kimaya

Skies makes a good point about the relationship criteria being a defining aspect of BPD versus other disorders. Most of the material I have been reading suggests experts consider this to be the hallmark of BPD. I don't know of any BPD either IRL or in this forum here who doesn't have interpersonal relationship problems.

BPD tends to have one or two friends at most at a time - many have none - and go from feeling a very strong connection to that person to destroying the relationship with our behaviors.

About a year ago I didn't know much either Lots of reading, and self-examination, plus listening to other folks with the disorder like you are doing.

Both you and Skies have very good points to make. I am learning a lot from these posts. It is amazing that it is possible to me that I may not have ADHD! I am not that amazed that I most probably do have BPD. It just seems that my symptoms appear so ADHD...I am sooo unsure of my own interpretations now.

Here are the most prevalent symptoms that I feel. (hyperactive, restless, fast mind, distractibility, unable to focus on anything for long, irritability, feelings of being lost, not much motivation, hardly any interests....very few friends. I lost my family (mom died, brother disowned me.) no children. I also isolate a lot. I'm sure there is more....but not ADHD? wow??

[sideblinded]

I want to add that it is also possible that I have both disorders. I am a therapist's nightmare....LOL

[sideblinded]

Originally Posted by skies

Hey Val,

I read your post at the ADD forum where you mention relational issues. although i'm no expert, to me you sound like you have BPD. But there is so much stigma with that dx, you would not want that dx in your medical record. I think I am pretty borderline but have only been diagnosed with PTSD, GAD, dysthymia, major depression, and adjustment disorder. There might have been more, but no one told me in all of these years that I could be borderline.

Distraction, inattentiveness, and impulse issues are not ADD. Actually, all of the personality disorders come with cognitive issues and several with impulse control issues. Depression and anxiety of course can cause cognitive problems. I have major attention problems, but I think mine are related to anxiety and memory issues from major dissociation...


There is a lot of overlap, and of course someone can have ADD plus another disorder, such as a PD. Psychiatrists might say that ADD inattentiveness, etc., vs. being a symptom from other mental disorders can be discerned by what's causing the distraction. With ADD, the person is distracted from outside sensory interruptions only-a car driving by, too much color in the room, etc. If someone is distracted by thoughts or worries, for example, it's likely not ADD.

Hey Skies

What do you mean by major dissociation?

Originally Posted by SideBlinded

Both you and Skies have very good points to make. I am learning a lot from these posts. It is amazing that it is possible to me that I may not have ADHD! I am not that amazed that I most probably do have BPD. It just seems that my symptoms appear so ADHD...I am sooo unsure of my own interpretations now.

Here are the most prevalent symptoms that I feel. (hyperactive, restless, fast mind, distractibility, unable to focus on anything for long, irritability, feelings of being lost, not much motivation, hardly any interests....very few friends. I lost my family (mom died, brother disowned me.) no children. I also isolate a lot. I'm sure there is more....but not ADHD? wow??

Originally Posted by SideBlinded

Hey Skies

What do you mean by major dissociation?

You could have both, but really, I don't think anyone would look into it that much unless they wanted to rx you with stimulants. Symptoms are treated anyway, whether you have ADD or BPD or __.

Not having motivation can be related to so many things, including depression and grief. Isolating is common with PDs. I am sorry for all your losses.

I've taken stimulants for depression-primarily, lack of motivation; they were most helpful, but they improve any depressed person's mood-ADD or not. Amphetamine was the original antidepressants at the turn of the century. They are cheap and reliable, actually. Clean and go right to the source...I don't think it's good to take them over an extended period of time though.

I say major dissociation because I've had all sorts of strange dissociative experiences inside and outside therapy. That reminds me, my last T said I had some form of DID. I think major because I've had loss of memory from significant times in my life. also for some reason, starting psychotherapy messed up my memory. it seems to have something to do with memory retrieval, but i'll probably never know for sure.

Good that you are reading and learning here. You will benefit more than those who don't take the effort or those in denial.

May I suggest further reading? The authors of these articles do a wonderful job articulating MH issues using synthesis of various schools of thought. It's an effective, simply amalagation of complex subjects and a quick/easy way to learn about PDs in general.

On impulse control:

Defining Features of Personality Disorders: Impulse Control Problems - Personality Disorders

Relationships as the defining factor of PDs:

The Most Significant, Defining Featured of Personality Disorders: Interpersonal Difficulties - Personality Disorders

Attachment and BPD:

Attachment Theory of Personality Disorder - Personality Disorders

Object relations and BPD:

Object Relations Theory of Personality Disorders - Personality Disorders

IDK-just explore the site. It's a wonderful and non-judgmental resource.

Take care.

[Kimaya]

Originally Posted by SideBlinded

(hyperactive, restless, fast mind, distractibility, unable to focus on anything for long, irritability, feelings of being lost, not much motivation, hardly any interests....very few friends. I lost my family (mom died, brother disowned me.) no children. I also isolate a lot. I'm sure there is more....but not ADHD? wow??

So sorry for what you have been through! Even though my family is 'dysfunctional' my parents mean a lot to me... like a life line in my world.

Hrmm... well, I am not a pdoc, obviously, depression is a pathological trait for BPD and all of those feelings you describe can sort of go right under GAD/Depression - besides the hyperactive. The nuances are sort of the tell-tales and can be pretty hard to identify sometimes! Knowing how we feel is easier than knowing why we feel that way.

I guess I would have to ask why don't you have friends/isolate? Search there first. Like Skies links and info show PD's have to do with a disturbance in how we see ourselves and relate to others - the ego's job. Think about how do you view yourself, and how about others. For instance, the last friend you had, what happened to them... and what about the ones you have now?

Short of it though is most meds a pdoc would prescribe for BPD really only treat the pathological traits (symptoms) anyway, like depression, impulsiveness, angry outburts, etc. I think your concern about whether or not you have ADHD is pretty valid because those are specific meds that won't be treated with the type used for BPD pathos. I would get another opinion with a change in diagnosis like that without symptoms that scream BPD.

[sideblinded]

Originally Posted by skies

May I suggest further reading? The authors of these articles do a wonderful job articulating MH issues using synthesis of various schools of thought. It's an effective, simply amalagation of complex subjects and a quick/easy way to learn about PDs in general.

On impulse control:

Defining Features of Personality Disorders: Impulse Control Problems - Personality Disorders

Relationships as the defining factor of PDs:

The Most Significant, Defining Featured of Personality Disorders: Interpersonal Difficulties - Personality Disorders

Attachment and BPD:

Attachment Theory of Personality Disorder - Personality Disorders

Object relations and BPD:

Object Relations Theory of Personality Disorders - Personality Disorders

IDK-just explore the site. It's a wonderful and non-judgmental resource.

Take care.

You and others have been so helpful. I really appreciate your care and concern. You are really great!

[Kimaya]

Can't remember where I read it but 'treatment resistant' depression is a possible indicator of another problem, like a PD. I really agree with this, but there is not a lot of research yet to back it up. PDs do not stand alone.

[sideblinded]

Originally Posted by Kimaya

So sorry for what you have been through! Even though my family is 'dysfunctional' my parents mean a lot to me... like a life line in my world.

Hrmm... well, I am not a pdoc, obviously, depression is a pathological trait for BPD and all of those feelings you describe can sort of go right under GAD/Depression - besides the hyperactive. The nuances are sort of the tell-tales and can be pretty hard to identify sometimes! Knowing how we feel is easier than knowing why we feel that way.

I guess I would have to ask why don't you have friends/isolate? Search there first. Like Skies links and info show PD's have to do with a disturbance in how we see ourselves and relate to others - the ego's job. Think about how do you view yourself, and how about others. For instance, the last friend you had, what happened to them... and what about the ones you have now?

Short of it though is most meds a pdoc would prescribe for BPD really only treat the pathological traits (symptoms) anyway, like depression, impulsiveness, angry outburts, etc. I think your concern about whether or not you have ADHD is pretty valid because those are specific meds that won't be treated with the type used for BPD pathos. I would get another opinion with a change in diagnosis like that without symptoms that scream BPD.

You and Skies have been great to me. I so appreciate your help and you both are very informative and seem to know your stuff. I will do some reading and I will keep you both informed if that is ok. Hugs!

[Kimaya]

[sideblinded]

Originally Posted by Kimaya

Can't remember where I read it but 'treatment resistant' depression is a possible indicator of another problem, like a PD. I really agree with this, but there is not a lot of research yet to back it up. PDs do not stand alone.

Totally agree. dysthymia is a strange one as far as that goes....it is so chronic and a pdoc says I have it. There were so many antidepressant changes because most were not working. If ADHD is in the picture, who knows just how off my cocktail of meds were. I think the bipolar meds (Seroquel) especially were depressing me more.) If we don't learn how to change our negative thought patterns, meds won't completely take the feeling of depression away. So I am working on being aware of my thoughts right now. I can't always catch them in time to stop them, but being aware is the first step, I think.

[Kimaya]

There are some meds that turn me into a raging pyscho (Dont worry I have the one that I can switch to which turns me into a marshmallow)... I keep a tracker for my moods now when changing meds. I try to anyway.

Your cocktail could even be responsible for symptoms.

I usually get a lift when starting a new SSRI/SNRI but it wanes. I am sure most BPD could say the same, or at least that their depression is treatment resistant.

Originally Posted by Kimaya

So sorry for what you have been through! Even though my family is 'dysfunctional' my parents mean a lot to me... like a life line in my world.

Hrmm... well, I am not a pdoc, obviously, depression is a pathological trait for BPD and all of those feelings you describe can sort of go right under GAD/Depression - besides the hyperactive. The nuances are sort of the tell-tales and can be pretty hard to identify sometimes! Knowing how we feel is easier than knowing why we feel that way.

I guess I would have to ask why don't you have friends/isolate? Search there first. Like Skies links and info show PD's have to do with a disturbance in how we see ourselves and relate to others - the ego's job. Think about how do you view yourself, and how about others. For instance, the last friend you had, what happened to them... and what about the ones you have now?

Short of it though is most meds a pdoc would prescribe for BPD really only treat the pathological traits (symptoms) anyway, like depression, impulsiveness, angry outburts, etc. I think your concern about whether or not you have ADHD is pretty valid because those are specific meds that won't be treated with the type used for BPD pathos. I would get another opinion with a change in diagnosis like that without symptoms that scream BPD.

Originally Posted by Kimaya

Can't remember where I read it but 'treatment resistant' depression is a possible indicator of another problem, like a PD. I really agree with this, but there is not a lot of research yet to back it up. PDs do not stand alone.

I think this is really good advice Kimaya.

Regarding the 2nd quote, I've read that on several occasions. Supposedly people with PDs don't respond to meds as well. (if that's the case, why were they so effective for me the first time I was prescribed?) I used to believe that, but lately really question it. I've never seen the actual research that proves that. Even when there is research, it's often based on college students. Not only that, but there really is no science behind psychotropics. You probably know that, and I've known that too. I guess I've just gotten more skeptical about this in recent years, especially after the StarD research. It seems to me that psychiatry's progress sort of froze after the 2nd generation ADs decades ago. After that, it seemed the 'research' was just recycled studies over and over to show certain brands were better than others, or to get approval for treating other conditions. Much of it is garbage, imo.

Lately there's been some research that taking ADs, stopping and starting them especially, can cause a life-long dependency and treatment-resistant depression because they cause permanent brain changes. And people with PDs have a life-long condition, so they'd be the ones to stop and start medications over a period of years. I'll be watching for news about that...we know that some of the medications cause permanent brain damage via tardive akathisia. In other words, the brain never goes back to normal functioning for people with that horrid condition. Unfortunately, the invisible symptoms don't get as much attention.

I think the problem is more about lack of evolution in the field, although it seems to be starting back up, thankfully. I know that no one asked me about this, but i felt like giving my two cents anyway.

[Kimaya]

I wouldn't be surprised that bit about AD's - something I've noticed when I go off mine is I get really agitated. I feel like I can never be off of one, and I can't remember anymore what I was like before.

I know the SSRIs help me - I am pretty sure I would be dead without them just because they helped me in some really hard times, just I feel like they wear off, or as of late aren't working anymore really... they did though. So I guess I feel like you too, in that I was sure they helped in the beginning. Not as much anymore. I keep hoping for that lift... last one I got was with cymbalta... took me right out of a depression which I lowered back into about six months later - though not as bad.

Thanks for sharing... its nice to chat about this stuff anyway

[sideblinded]

Originally Posted by Kimaya

I wouldn't be surprised that bit about AD's - something I've noticed when I go off mine is I get really agitated. I feel like I can never be off of one, and I can't remember anymore what I was like before.

I know the SSRIs help me - I am pretty sure I would be dead without them just because they helped me in some really hard times, just I feel like they wear off, or as of late aren't working anymore really... they did though. So I guess I feel like you too, in that I was sure they helped in the beginning. Not as much anymore. I keep hoping for that lift... last one I got was with cymbalta... took me right out of a depression which I lowered back into about six months later - though not as bad.

Thanks for sharing... its nice to chat about this stuff anyway

I agree that I like to talk about this stuff, too. Hey Kimaya.....where is skies these days? I miss seeing her around