[povman]

I apologise if this post is a bit long, I've always been a very verbose individual. But I'd love to have people reply still!

My first post to this specific forum although I've posted on this site before for depression and anxiety. I've been depressed and anxious my entire life but I've only been able to narrow it down to the likelihood of some kind of possible CEN in the past 4 years or so.

Like many with CEN my childhood was not truly traumatic or abusive in any way. Indeed I'd go further and say that I remember being loved and treated very well. When I was very young I remember playing with both my parents. I remember my father instilling all of my modern academic interests. My father would read to me, would do all kinds of goofy and funny voices and created imaginary characters for me as a kid. My mother, though not directly a really warm figure showed her love through food and other small ways. At least this is what it was like in the early years when I lived with them in Asia for some years. Things changed a bit when we moved back to NA when I went to school. They still clearly loved me but I hated school and felt so unbelievably isolated and alone there, something happened over the years and I sort of just turned myself off emotionally.

As I said I remember my parents playing with me, I remember there being many smiles and much laughter at times. But it was also a smothering environment with almost no personal boundaries. Things were shared in my family that should not have been, my father was just by best friend and not a father figure at all. I was at times used as an unknowing pawn between my parents when they had marital issues. I remember my mother asking me to look for porn she was worried was on my fathers computer. I remember my father confiding things in me that he didn't want my mother to know which made me feel very uncomfortable. I remember fights my parents had when I was young over money that scared me greatly. But through it all there were our weekly dinners out, conversations with my father about science and philosophy, parties, and more.

But... There was something very wrong I know that much. I hated school desperately and fought with my parents up through university about going. I would cry and fight daily for years. I cried myself to sleep a lot. They knew something was wrong of course but I guess they had no idea how to help. They just incessantly worried about me and I picked up on their worry. I was helicopter parented with my mother often having opinions on everything down to what I should and should not order at every restaurant we went to. I had no individuality, no self. There was little physical affection as well although I do distinctly remember being hugged a few times. But one red flag is that when extended family visited and would hug me I found the experience so alien that I returned their hugs without touching their backs. I was a very strange mix of hyper intellectually developed for my age, a 40 year old philosopher scientist mind in the body of a 15 year old, and extremely emotionally underdeveloped, I called my father "daddy" into my late 20s.

In later years during my teenage period I feel into serious depressions. I remember having tear and anger filled fights with my parents that must have scared the living ***** out of them. I would regularly tell them I did not want to live. Their response was always fear and worry. They tried to get me emotional help at different times though none of it to much success.

Later in life I became an alcoholic. This too they worried about though in its early stages they even enabled it.

Things got much better after I moved out of my parents house about 4 years ago. Gone was that suffocating environment in which I didn't feel I could even breath, though I only saw this when I left. I felt an amazing sense of peace on my own. But my life long loneliness only deepened over the years even as I have developed some of the best friends I've had in my life (I now realize the friends I had through all my childhood were not good ones). I struggle to connect with m friends although I now take greater emotional risks. There is definitely a feeling that some barrier separates me from the rest of humanity, that I'm missing some key thing that everyone else intuits. Some hidden extra layer of translation is at work in my mind that doesn't exist with others. I desperately wish I wasn't as socially awkward as I am. I desperately wish I could have a relationship, romance, sex. I'm 36, a virgin and never so much as romantically held hands.

At times later my alcoholism reached dangerous peaks. Although through it all I have worked full time off and on and currently manage a retail store and I'm doing well, not drinking right now. I'm seeing a new therapist hoping to work specifically on CEN.

I still rely on my parents though. They have financially enabled me through life, making my life financially actually quite easy compared to many my age. We still meet weekly for dinners and discussions. I have trouble seeing them in a negative light, they have given me so much.

But... There is this hole in me that I could not fill if I poured the pacific ocean into it and I find it difficult to find an explanation beyond some form of CEN.

Edit: Another thing I struggle with is hardly remembering any of my childhood even up till and including adolescence. Others seem to remember with great ease but for me there are many many years that are just a blank slate.

Certaintly. Sometimes parents can be very loving and still not provide children what they need emotionally. Maybe they didn't know how to support you as you struggled with bullying or isolation. Feeling different is very isolating. Maybe they said kind words but unknowingly didn't address or validate your emotions.

Asian families (I'm born and raised in Asia to Asian parents) can be very loose about boundaries and we all need privacy, to have boundaries respected. It can be smothering growing up Asian.

[povman]

Originally Posted by QuietMind

Certaintly. Sometimes parents can be very loving and still not provide children what they need emotionally. Maybe they didn't know how to support you as you struggled with bullying or isolation. Feeling different is very isolating. Maybe they said kind words but unknowingly didn't address or validate your emotions.

Asian families (I'm born and raised in Asia to Asian parents) can be very loose about boundaries and we all need privacy, to have boundaries respected. It can be smothering growing up Asian.

Thank you. I also suspect, that my case was exacerbated by the luck of being born an extremely sensitive person.

Even to this day the smallest things cut to the bone for me. Things that rolled off other peoples backs cut deep for me and always have.

I suspect that I needed even more validation, comforting and reassurance than most kids might and I ended up getting somewhat less.

Originally Posted by povman

Thank you. I also suspect, that my case was exacerbated by the luck of being born an extremely sensitive person.

Even to this day the smallest things cut to the bone for me. Things that rolled off other peoples backs cut deep for me and always have.

I suspect that I needed even more validation, comforting and reassurance than most kids might and I ended up getting somewhat less.

It's OK to be sensitive. Some of us feel things deeper and it's both a blessing and a curse.

It's unfortunate that some Asian cultures are less warm and rely on shaming. Yours may have been loving but still not attuned to your needs.

For example a child might be crying because they're tired and the parent keeps offering food to distract (child eventually learns to comfort eat even when not hungry) rather than validating the emotions, or keeps thinking the child is hungry while not recognizing the child is tired (misattunement).

Enough chronic misattunement, however well intentioned and loving the parents are, causes CEN. You also probably feel guilty "my parents are loving but I feel this gnawing emptiness of CEN."

Several of your sentences struck me as I grew up in a very controlling household. Asian parents often think being controlling helps their child succeed but it doesn't. It still is coercive control and harmful because we all need age appropriate autonomy.

If you read Reddit's r/AsianParentStories, you'll find yourself in good company, as many people relate to helicopter parenting, no individuality or sense of self due to being controlled and smothered, depression and anxiety due to guilty feelings towards parents and high parental expectations.

Many there also are second generation immigrants who grew up in Western culture while their parents were raised in Asian culture. Though a lot of Asians raised in Asian culture can relate as well.

It also sounds like both your parents parentified you by confiding their marital problems to you. That is destructive for a child, along side witnessing fights which scared you. Them helicoptering and worrying till you picked up on it also unfortunately sent a strong message to you that your emotions, your problems cause trouble, that your parents can't help you, can't support you...

...it makes sense that you've felt deeply lonely for so long...

[povman]

Originally Posted by QuietMind

It also sounds like both your parents parentified you by confiding their marital problems to you. That is destructive for a child, along side witnessing fights which scared you. Them helicoptering and worrying till you picked up on it also unfortunately sent a strong message to you that your emotions, your problems cause trouble, that your parents can't help you, can't support you...

...it makes sense that you've felt deeply lonely for so long...

Than you for saying that! The truh is I’m only 1/2 Asian. My mother is Chinese, my father White. My mother wasn’t even a hyper traditionalist or strict Asian mother. I didn’t have a tiger mother, no unrealistic expectations. But she came from a cold family where her parents were rarely present, raised mainly by her siblings. My father had a more traditional family but his too was dogged by emotional problems, his mother was an alcoholic at times and has recounted numerous memories of abuse to me over the years.

My family is a complex one. I have always been much closer to my father than my mother, to the extent that I would tell my mother when I was very young that I liked my father more than my mother. Something that no doubt hurt her a lot. My parents could not be more different, my mother is emotionally closed off, loving but oblivious to her own emotions. My father is much warmer, much more overtly loving, but he lives in his own head most of the time.

In many ways I don’t think my parents were a good fit, but they made it work. Although the way they did wasn’t through communication so much as compromise and surrender. They eventually decided to just have split finances. I felt caught between then at times. I suppose I never felt comfortable going to them for comfort and validation because I know all I would get from them is worry and fear about me.

My parents never helped me not to feel broken, even if they never encouraged me to feel that way. I remember long after I’d given up my academic hopes due to dropping out of university multiple times due to depression, my mother recommended I get a job. She helped me get retail work, which she does herself. When I wanted to move on she suggested truck driving, taxi cab dispatcher and more. Not to look down on those professions but when I voiced wish to return to school, I always excelled academically, she discouraged me because of all my failures and I could feel the feeling that she knew I was broken.

Honestly, your last post...it really makes sense that CEN fits so well.

When one or both parents have trauma histories, their genes get affected (epigenetics) and research has shown their children are more sensitive to stress hormones. "It Didn't Start with You: How Inherited Family Trauma Shapes Who We Are and How to End the Cycle" talks about the science of it.

And even if there wasn't overt trauma like hitting, the CEN of your mother passed on to you because she herself didn't know how to be responsive etc due to her own CEN. Being raised by siblings even with parents physically present (but emotionally absent) can be really lonely and there's complicated dynamics involved.

Then your statements of "my mother is emotionally closed off, loving but oblivious to her own emotions. My father is much warmer, much more overtly loving, but he lives in his own head most of the time. " show that you had no one consistently attuned to your world. In order to attune to a child...identify clearly the child's emotions and validate them...one needs to be aware of one own emotions. Not oblivious to one own emotions, or projecting it out, or lost in one's own head.

Then you say various things like "I suppose I never felt comfortable going to them for comfort and validation because I know all I would get from them is worry and fear about me." And "My parents never helped me not to feel broken, even if they never encouraged me to feel that way. "...

...which show that you clearly felt unsupported, that your needs are "too much", that this "brokenness"exists in you like a fatal flaw you're afraid people will see, that you must hide.

Maybe this link here resonates with you?
http://healingschemas.tumblr.com/pos...ivation-schema

Deprivation of empathy, nurturing, protection. There are other schemas you might find apply as well.

This blog talks about some of the emotional needs a child has: http://wonderwelltherapy.com/blog/ch...tional-neglect

"healthy attention does not mean intrusion, surveillance, “watching your every move,” or scrutiny."

"to accept a child is to be free of preconceived plans or agendas for them."

"Encouragement from caregivers helps us to develop a sense of personal worth and confidence. Appreciation also means showing gratitude for any kindness or gifts."

"Wounds can happen here when there is either a lack of affection (feeling of distance, disconnect, coldness) or if there is a sense of "too much" — engulfment, enmeshment, confusion about where I end and you begin. Sometimes, a “surrogate spouse" emotional dynamic can occur even with no sexual boundary-crossing, or a parent could lean on a child too much for emotional support. "

"Allowing flexibility rather than rigidity/severity, and a sense of freedom to discover and be YOU. Yes, there should be healthy limit-setting that makes it safe for you to be yourself (whereas control means you learn you have to be who others need me to be)."

[arabianhorselover]

Originally Posted by povman

Thank you. I also suspect, that my case was exacerbated by the luck of being born an extremely sensitive person.

Even to this day the smallest things cut to the bone for me. Things that rolled off other peoples backs cut deep for me and always have.

I suspect that I needed even more validation, comforting and reassurance than most kids might and I ended up getting somewhat less.

Same for me.

[katydid777]

Originally Posted by povman

Thank you. I also suspect, that my case was exacerbated by the luck of being born an extremely sensitive person.

Even to this day the smallest things cut to the bone for me. Things that rolled off other peoples backs cut deep for me and always have.

I suspect that I needed even more validation, comforting and reassurance than most kids might and I ended up getting somewhat less.

I am, and are super sensitive to anything that feels like it is about me. I was badly abused through my life, but I don't have a thick skin, so words hurt very bad. Maybe if you try to get a companion in your life, it might help some of your issues. Someone else in your life can very much change it, but remember, that person has to be compatable to you, or there could be problems. (((((((HUGS)))))))

[povman]

Originally Posted by katydid777

I am, and are super sensitive to anything that feels like it is about me. I was badly abused through my life, but I don't have a thick skin, so words hurt very bad. Maybe if you try to get a companion in your life, it might help some of your issues. Someone else in your life can very much change it, but remember, that person has to be compatable to you, or there could be problems. (((((((HUGS)))))))

Thank you! Truthfully I have thought about the idea of a relationship so much over the past 4 or 5 years that it has become a broken record in my head. I’ve overcome most of my regular social anxiety but the thought of trying to asking someone out, the ensuing awkwardness I just clam up. This despite the fact that I’ve been desperately lonely most of my life.

But the other thing is that however much I want a relationship the idea of finding one to fix myself I know is a red flag. But I go back and forth on that too because I struggle with the idea that I can’t have someone in my life until I fix myself, I see so many other imperfect relationships out there that still seem to work for both and seem better than none. I feel I deserve to be happy in that way too. But I also don’t want to inflict myself upon someone. I know that there are aspects of myself that would be a catch for someone. But my depression, low self esteem, aspects of self hatred, no one needs that. I feel stuck.

Originally Posted by povman

Thank you! Truthfully I have thought about the idea of a relationship so much over the past 4 or 5 years that it has become a broken record in my head. I’ve overcome most of my regular social anxiety but the thought of trying to asking someone out, the ensuing awkwardness I just clam up. This despite the fact that I’ve been desperately lonely most of my life.

But the other thing is that however much I want a relationship the idea of finding one to fix myself I know is a red flag. But I go back and forth on that too because I struggle with the idea that I can’t have someone in my life until I fix myself, I see so many other imperfect relationships out there that still seem to work for both and seem better than none. I feel I deserve to be happy in that way too. But I also don’t want to inflict myself upon someone. I know that there are aspects of myself that would be a catch for someone. But my depression, low self esteem, aspects of self hatred, no one needs that. I feel stuck.

It's painful isn't it? And there are issues even when one is in a relationship, as I am.

Some people prey on our vulnerability due to the CEN and are exploitive and abusive. My sister experienced a string of romantic relationships like that. While I did not, I would meet a lot of school and work bullies and "friends" who are emotionally abusive.

I have a partner (my first and only dating relationship) but my CEN caused a lot of issues in the first few years. We were codependent, both self hating with each of our own boatload of CEN and abuse issues. It was a very long rollercoaster and not every couple stays together and grows towards health together.

I do not believe one NEEDS therapy to heal but therapy focusing on my CEN is helping. For my sister, she found her husband because she was self aware, had supportive friends and learned and healed wounds through trial and error.

A lot of self compassion is needed, which can be extremely difficult when you hate yourself. I still struggle with self loathing and believing I am weak for having emotional needs. However you may find that you are far more compassionate towards others than yourself and that others are compassionate towards you as well. I believe that compassion from others helps one eventually have lower levels of self hatred, more self neutrality, and increasingly eventually self compassion.

[Shazerac]

Helicopter parenting can be extremely hard on some kids. We need the freedom to break away and make our own decisions and learn to trust ourselves. Not getting validation for our feelings can be emotionally crippling as well. It’s not really helpful to wonder if your childhood wasn “that bad”. It effected you and you need to adress that and find healing.

[riptide53]

Originally Posted by povman

I apologise if this post is a bit long, I've always been a very verbose individual. But I'd love to have people reply still!

My first post to this specific forum although I've posted on this site before for depression and anxiety. I've been depressed and anxious my entire life but I've only been able to narrow it down to the likelihood of some kind of possible CEN in the past 4 years or so.

Like many with CEN my childhood was not truly traumatic or abusive in any way. Indeed I'd go further and say that I remember being loved and treated very well. When I was very young I remember playing with both my parents. I remember my father instilling all of my modern academic interests. My father would read to me, would do all kinds of goofy and funny voices and created imaginary characters for me as a kid. My mother, though not directly a really warm figure showed her love through food and other small ways. At least this is what it was like in the early years when I lived with them in Asia for some years. Things changed a bit when we moved back to NA when I went to school. They still clearly loved me but I hated school and felt so unbelievably isolated and alone there, something happened over the years and I sort of just turned myself off emotionally.

As I said I remember my parents playing with me, I remember there being many smiles and much laughter at times. But it was also a smothering environment with almost no personal boundaries. Things were shared in my family that should not have been, my father was just by best friend and not a father figure at all. I was at times used as an unknowing pawn between my parents when they had marital issues. I remember my mother asking me to look for porn she was worried was on my fathers computer. I remember my father confiding things in me that he didn't want my mother to know which made me feel very uncomfortable. I remember fights my parents had when I was young over money that scared me greatly. But through it all there were our weekly dinners out, conversations with my father about science and philosophy, parties, and more.

But... There was something very wrong I know that much. I hated school desperately and fought with my parents up through university about going. I would cry and fight daily for years. I cried myself to sleep a lot. They knew something was wrong of course but I guess they had no idea how to help. They just incessantly worried about me and I picked up on their worry. I was helicopter parented with my mother often having opinions on everything down to what I should and should not order at every restaurant we went to. I had no individuality, no self. There was little physical affection as well although I do distinctly remember being hugged a few times. But one red flag is that when extended family visited and would hug me I found the experience so alien that I returned their hugs without touching their backs. I was a very strange mix of hyper intellectually developed for my age, a 40 year old philosopher scientist mind in the body of a 15 year old, and extremely emotionally underdeveloped, I called my father "daddy" into my late 20s.

In later years during my teenage period I feel into serious depressions. I remember having tear and anger filled fights with my parents that must have scared the living ***** out of them. I would regularly tell them I did not want to live. Their response was always fear and worry. They tried to get me emotional help at different times though none of it to much success.

Later in life I became an alcoholic. This too they worried about though in its early stages they even enabled it.

Things got much better after I moved out of my parents house about 4 years ago. Gone was that suffocating environment in which I didn't feel I could even breath, though I only saw this when I left. I felt an amazing sense of peace on my own. But my life long loneliness only deepened over the years even as I have developed some of the best friends I've had in my life (I now realize the friends I had through all my childhood were not good ones). I struggle to connect with m friends although I now take greater emotional risks. There is definitely a feeling that some barrier separates me from the rest of humanity, that I'm missing some key thing that everyone else intuits. Some hidden extra layer of translation is at work in my mind that doesn't exist with others. I desperately wish I wasn't as socially awkward as I am. I desperately wish I could have a relationship, romance, sex. I'm 36, a virgin and never so much as romantically held hands.

At times later my alcoholism reached dangerous peaks. Although through it all I have worked full time off and on and currently manage a retail store and I'm doing well, not drinking right now. I'm seeing a new therapist hoping to work specifically on CEN.

I still rely on my parents though. They have financially enabled me through life, making my life financially actually quite easy compared to many my age. We still meet weekly for dinners and discussions. I have trouble seeing them in a negative light, they have given me so much.

But... There is this hole in me that I could not fill if I poured the pacific ocean into it and I find it difficult to find an explanation beyond some form of CEN.

Edit: Another thing I struggle with is hardly remembering any of my childhood even up till and including adolescence. Others seem to remember with great ease but for me there are many many years that are just a blank slate.

Povman- each of us who has CEN have so many of the exact same 'issues' with life. I never knew I had it until several years ago when I 'happened' upon writings/articles by Jonice Webb, PhD and Peg Streep who have studied CEN extensively and show us that there is a way we reparent ourselves when we do the 'work'. Go to these authors, you won't believe how well the 'shoe fits'.