FAQ/Help |
Calendar |
Search |
Junior Member
Cestdidie
has no updates.
Member Since: Apr 2021
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 21
2 hugs
given |
#21
Quote:
In terms of how I cope with this: I do not look for an apology from her or even my father. I try to look at which people are present in my life, and show me genuine love. By feelings their love, I am able to love myself--and that is the start of healing |
|
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto, unaluna
|
downandlonely, MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto, unaluna
|
Junior Member
Cestdidie
has no updates.
Member Since: Apr 2021
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 21
2 hugs
given |
#22
Quote:
I think when you try to run away, it shows that you understood something was wrong, you knew that you were happier anywhere else than there, and that you were not scared to chase it! I think we should be happy we had to strength to run away. In my case, it made be realize the abuse, but also who I was. Although I'm still figuring out that last point. Cheers to you |
|
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto
|
MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto
|
Grand Magnate
MuseumGhost
Fortior cotidie
Member Since: Apr 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,257
12.3k hugs
given |
#23
It takes a lot of courage to own-up to what is really going on in our lives. Thanks, Cestdidi, for doing just that, and many hugs for your healing path.
I didn't really start to formulate solid theories about why our childhood was so difficult, until I was in my mid 30's. And I wouldn't say my mother was necessarily narcissistic, either. I think these things can occur without the presence of that particular mental issue. In my family's case, I believe now it was history repeating itself, the old nasty cycle of harshness being passed down through several generations. A child learns what they live, as the saying goes. A few of us escape that cycle and some even succeed in breaking it. I never had any children of my own, so I'll never know how I would have been as a parent. But I do intend to carry on working on myself for the foreseeable, as there are so many aspects of my psyche that this situation has affected. One thing I did know at a very young age---That I would never, under any circumstances, talk to child the way my parents did, so discourteously and hypocritically rude and dismissive. It was just one weapon of theirs, and it had lasting effects, you bet. I am still that way, today. I do not believe children should be overlooked or mistreated in any way. It is too painful an existence for them. Their shoulders are too small to carry that kind of weight. They don't possess the experience or perspective to help them through it. Massive, understanding hugs to you all. |
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, RoxanneToto
|
nonightowl, RoxanneToto
|
New Member
Hope Mikelson
has no updates.
Member Since: Oct 2021
Location: India
Posts: 6
4 hugs
given |
#24
Quote:
|
|
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto, unaluna
|
nonightowl, unaluna
|
Junior Member
ann yeltrab
has no updates.
Member Since: Feb 2021
Location: californi
Posts: 11
|
#25
Hi, i have just found you guys talking about unavailable moms. i wish there was a way for us to dialogue more easily. I came to my realization late, too, that something was soooo wrong. why?
|
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, RoxanneToto
|
dzrtgirl
|
Junior Member
ann yeltrab
has no updates.
Member Since: Feb 2021
Location: californi
Posts: 11
|
#26
I have been told I am on the spectrum. I wonder if a certain parenting style fosters autism. This is not to blame you. I have so many problems and I claim them. If our moms were lacking in emotional expression and interacted with us only in matter of fact way might we have been denied learning how to recognize emotion and how to return them? The problem is I have no memory of my mom touching me, smiling at me, talking to me. Why? Why can't I remember one single word of praise or affection.? Did she play with me? read to me? teach me anything? Surely she held my hand to cross streets. I feel so guilty. I think she must have done all these things. Why is there no memory? I know she had little interest in me later in life. However, I was feed, taken to the dentist, well-dressed, had toys. She helped me in my adult years if I needed help moving, etc. But she never called me to say hello or to say she missed me. Am I just feeling sorry for myself and too critical of her? I loved her so much, but never felt loved by her.
|
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, Fuzzybear, MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto
|
RoxanneToto
|
Grand Poohbah
RoxanneToto
has no updates.
Member Since: Aug 2020
Location: England
Posts: 1,692
6,991 hugs
given |
#27
Not to try and diagnose you, ann yeltrab, but trauma/PTSD is associated with gaps in memory like you described. It might be something worth exploring with a therapist if you want to?
Plus, key symptoms of PTSD and autism can overlap, and they can coexist. I was diagnosed with autism as a teenager, but my current T is certain I don’t have it and I’ve also come to think I was misdiagnosed and “only” had PTSD. |
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, Fuzzybear
|
MuseumGhost
|
Grand Magnate
MuseumGhost
Fortior cotidie
Member Since: Apr 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,257
12.3k hugs
given |
#28
For ann yeltrab: I suffer from a very similar situation, but without the autistic spectrum aspect.
I always thought I was patently unlovable. But my brother endured the same kind of hot-and-cold / or just completely icy presence of my mother. She was great with my two younger sisters, but not with my brother and me. We were really good kids; obedient, intelligent, and kind. But she essentially treated us like unwanted, bothersome wastrels. She always jumped to the worst conclusions---she was deeply and regularly suspicious, even when there was absolutely no need to be---I don't remember her ever really being encouraging, or terribly patient, or doting---If it weren't for my father and his naturally loving personality, we would have grown up with fewer than 10 hugs between us, my brother and I. I don't remember compliments, or any kind of explanations for the tough questions in life. I grew up thinking that my opinion DID NOT MATTER, and wasn't wanted, even as I got older. We did not receive a lot of life lessons that every child should get first from their parents. Now, to be completely fair, my mother DID try very hard to rectify a few things after she received a diagnosis of cancer. I was in college, but was coming home fairly regularly for visits, so we achieved a bit of healing, and closure, between the two of us. I knew that at least, she recognized where she had gone wrong, and was trying to fix some things. It was not as successful for my brother, who suffered the brunt of her unexplained behaviour, and who lived on his own at that point, and who had developed a serious addiction to alcohol, as well. I do believe he was quite profoundly shaped, in a damaging way, by her distance from us (he was 3 years older than me, and extremely intelligent and also very sensitive). In spite of her efforts, I will never know where her inability to love us, and to show it, ever came from. I do think that this aspect of my life is one of the most painful things a person can experience; second place would go to the actual loss of that person before their time. |
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, Fuzzybear, RoxanneToto
|
RoxanneToto
|
Desert Kitty hates titles
nonightowl
wonders if anybody reads this
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: TARDIS
Posts: 9,114
6,675 hugs
given |
#29
Quote:
Until I joined this site and saw this forum called CEN, I didn't even know they had a name for it. It makes it official, like I wasn't imagining it. It's "legit". I joined in 2008 but don't know if this forum was there or not. I get validation from reading this thread, knowing it's not just me and apparently more common than I thought. My own mother obviously favored her first born (male) child over me. And oddly, she never wanted to speak a WORD about her OWN mother. She just wouldn't answer me. She wouldn't even say "I can't talk about it" or "It's too painful honey." That being said, she didn't use terms of endearment at all. And I have no pictures of my grandparents (maternal), and I don't even know what their names were. Seems she cut herself off from her family, as she had sibings too which she didn't discuss at all either. My guess is that this dynamic was generational and she did what HER parents did: Be emotionally unavailable. Also therapists have said not being answered as a child brings back those feelings as an adult, when somebody doesn't ANSWER me---be it on email, voicemail, text, online. It REALLY pisses me off and now I know why. My own mother wouldn't answer me about HER mother. Or what was on top of the stove. I was too little to see up there; I wondered what was up there but she didn't answer me. I knew she cooked or made food on that strange thing (it was to me, I didn't know what it was called a stove, LOL), but I didn't know what she was doing or what was there I couldn't see! Unfortunately I'll never know why she was like this, as she's been deceased since 2017. Therapists have said she probably had no good role models herself. Though it explains things, it doesn't make it less painful. I often wonder if she was even aware of how distant and cold she was a lot of times. And I know if she was still alive, she'd never answer me anyway, as always. __________________ Call me "owl" for short! Hmmm....looks like some good tips in here. "Okay, enough photos. I'm a very BUSY Business Kitty, so make an appointment next time." |
|
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, Fuzzybear, MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto
|
RoxanneToto
|
Grand Magnate
MuseumGhost
Fortior cotidie
Member Since: Apr 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,257
12.3k hugs
given |
#30
Nonightowl, this is so familiar to me. And tragic. I suspect my mother's unresponsiveness was also handed-down, and was a generational thing. I did hear on several occasions how cold, stern, and tightly-wound my maternal grandmother was.
The thing that saved us was the love that was shown by my paternal grandparents. And thank goodness for it! I am reminded from time to time that there were also some pretty wacky child-rearing theories that were floated around in the forties, fifties, and early sixties. I did not know this until college, when I had to take Child Development courses. One of those theories stated something like, "children should never be the focus of attention", and that "they should never be complimented." That was eye-opening for me. And, of course, it was all wrong; bass-ackwards so to speak. But it might have been picked up as legitimate because "child experts" said it, and people ran with it. Who knows? That could have led to several more generations of confused and bewildered children, for sure. I always felt so strange. There were a lot of secrets in our house. But I found out later that just about every family on our street had some kind of major dysfunction going on, somewhere, somehow, in their family. It made me sad, knowing that just about everyone I knew was experiencing (and desperate to hide the fact) the kind of loneliness and pain that comes with these experiences. But it DID tell me perhaps there were bigger forces at work than just my freaky, sad little family unit....which was a comfort, of a sort. |
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, Fuzzybear, nonightowl, RoxanneToto
|
nonightowl
|
Wisest Elder Ever
Fuzzybear
has no updates.
Member Since: Nov 2002
Location: Cave.
Posts: 96,298
(SuperPoster!)
81.2k hugs
given |
#31
__________________ |
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, MuseumGhost
|
nonightowl
|
Desert Kitty hates titles
nonightowl
wonders if anybody reads this
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: TARDIS
Posts: 9,114
6,675 hugs
given |
#32
Quote:
I didn't know about theories on child rearing, but I do know different generations have different methods and it gets passed down unless the cycle is stopped. I would have stopped it if I had kids. I've heard "kids should be seen and not heard" and "kids should not speak unless spoken to" and "spare the rod, spoil the child" but mostly in the movies. Still I see it was probably reality. Spanking used to be considered okay, now it's considered abuse I believe. I remember once my mom said that cause I'm not a little girl anymore I don't need to be hugged. Last and only time she hugged me I was about 8. As an adult I like to hug and be hugged. My parents never hugged or kissed me, or each other at least not in front of us kids. No "I love you", no terms of endearment. They were probably taught to just provide for your kids, that's enough. I know both parents came from poverty but I know little else. They did not share. Maybe they were taught that too, don't show your kids you are human. And favor the first born. Still I find comfort in this thread and forum, that it's a real thing. __________________ Call me "owl" for short! Hmmm....looks like some good tips in here. "Okay, enough photos. I'm a very BUSY Business Kitty, so make an appointment next time." |
|
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, Fuzzybear, MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto
|
RoxanneToto
|
Grand Magnate
MuseumGhost
Fortior cotidie
Member Since: Apr 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,257
12.3k hugs
given |
#33
Again, Owlie, so much of what you write is very familiar to me. "Children should be seen and not heard", was frequently repeated in our house. Especially when other adults were around! My parents LOVED to hear what well-behaved children people thought us to be; but it never occurred to them to compliment us on behaving so well, or (God forbid!) rewarding us for making such a good impression for them. It was simply a baseline expectation.
WE got spankings when the impression was that we were becoming a little hard to handle. Smack them back into line was the thinking. But it was only ever me and my brother---never the youngest sister, who was the fomenter of much of what was going on in the first place. I could write a novel on that topic, alone. My husband and I kind of bonded over the strange atmospheres in both of our childhood houses. He joked and laughed about his situation; but I felt for him, as it was clear he did not receive enough love, compliments, guidance, or affection. He joked and called it "The Gulag". But I could see there were scars there. His father was especially hard on him, and repeatedly implied that he was absolutely useless at anything. This is not the case---husband was treated like I was: Show initiative >>> get told how you're doing everything WRONG! As it turns out, we're both really good at so many things we try. He's great at developing elegant, inexpensive and effective solutions to a lot of the ordinary things that can go wrong around a house. We renovated two homes together (the one we were selling, and the one we were moving into), and friends couldn't get over what neat, attractive, professional jobs we did. So, I had to wait until I was almost 45 before I received any kind of validation that I was hard-working, capable, and smart, and could complete what I started. And still, getting my Dad to say anything positive was like asking him for his last kidney. But he finally did --- he had to admit we had done a great job. I learned a long, long time ago to give myself the compliments I was looking for from other people. And to value myself, my efforts, and my hard work. Periodically, I still have to remind myself to do that. I do sometimes wonder how different my life circumstances would have been if they had only done the simplest things in another, more positive, nurturing way. |
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, Fuzzybear, Mendingmysoul, nonightowl, RoxanneToto
|
nonightowl, RoxanneToto
|
Wisest Elder Ever
Fuzzybear
has no updates.
Member Since: Nov 2002
Location: Cave.
Posts: 96,298
(SuperPoster!)
81.2k hugs
given |
#34
__________________ |
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, MuseumGhost
|
Desert Kitty hates titles
nonightowl
wonders if anybody reads this
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: TARDIS
Posts: 9,114
6,675 hugs
given |
#35
Quote:
She gave the example of how when she asked can she have a cookie, her mom said "You say MAY I have a cookie". Stuff like that. My parents were like that too, thinking to provide for us and teach us the right things to say or the right way TO say it. I was corrected on grammar and manners, heaven forbid I say "frig" instead of "refrigerator." It sent my dad into a tailspin who was obsessed about my referring to things with the right terms or phrases. He hated abbreviations or slang. Like you said, it's like I'm asking him to give up a kidney rather than lighting up. I didn't get praised for behaving either, but I sure got scolded if I didn't. It was over 50 years ago and I still remember when my mom took me along to the bank. (In those days, we didn't even have ATM's. And online banking? LOL Sounds like the Stone Age) I still remember that long line, as the banks were only open till 6pm one day a week: Friday. She told me to go sit on this bench to wait for her. She then said, "And be quiet. Don't bother people." And I listened. Did I get praised? No. My old boyfriend had a similar upbringing, and he's still my best friend. Yet I think we both turned out great in spite of our upbringing. Like you I have to give myself compliments, give myself credit, tell myself I matter and I'm important and a good person. No one else will do it. And I'm ESSENTIAL unlike the government thinks. I often wonder what my life would have been if I were an only child. No older brother for them to favor. It would be just me. BTW, in spite of being in the same household, my aunt (dad's sister) was nothing like him. She had a warmth he lacked, and she had so much empathy for people, as well as insight into them. She was much older than him, and I could see they were not (and probably never were) close. That's sad, as that dynamic might have passed to us. If my parents didn't value relationships, how could they want their offspring to have a relationship? Why would they think it important? OR having a relationships WITH US as well??? They sure missed out. __________________ Call me "owl" for short! Hmmm....looks like some good tips in here. "Okay, enough photos. I'm a very BUSY Business Kitty, so make an appointment next time." |
|
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto, unaluna
|
Cocosurviving, MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto
|
Elder
Cocosurviving
❄️Happy Winter Solstice!
❄️Happy Kwanzaa!
Member Since: Sep 2012
Location: Muscogee (Creek) Nation Reservation
Posts: 5,875
308 hugs
given |
#36
I’m Working on Incorporating These into My Healing Journey. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk __________________ #SpoonieStrong Spoons are a visual representation used as a unit of measure to quantify how much energy individuals with disabilities and chronic illnesses have throughout a given day. 1). Depression 2). PTSD 3). Anxiety 4). Hashimoto 5). Fibromyalgia 6). Asthma 7). Atopic dermatitis 8). Chronic Idiopathic Urticaria 9). Hereditary Angioedema (HAE-normal C-1) 10). Gluten sensitivity 11). EpiPen carrier 12). Food allergies, medication allergies and food intolerances. . 13). Alopecia Areata |
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto
|
Mendingmysoul, MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto
|
Legendary
downandlonely
has no updates.
Member Since: Mar 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 10,760
(SuperPoster!)
10.6k hugs
given |
#37
I think our mothers' mental illnesses can also have a part to play. My mom has bipolar 2, and when she gets manic, she gets very irritable and mean. She also is very blunt and has no concept of what you should not say to children.
I also think in the past many women did not really want children, but felt obligated to have them. I remember my mom saying to me when I was 10 that it was my Dad that wanted kids, not her. As a child, that was very hurtful to hear. Anyway, I don't have kids of my own, so will not be passing on that dysfunction. |
Reply With Quote |
MuseumGhost, RoxanneToto, unaluna
|
RoxanneToto, unaluna
|
Grand Member
Mendingmysoul
has no updates.
Member Since: Aug 2019
Location: Here
Posts: 907
807 hugs
given |
#38
I am pretty sure my mom has some disorder,probably NPD,she never got diagnosed There were all kinds of neglect/abuse.I was my parents scapegoat.The living room furniture in my parental home got a better treatmeant.Atleast they got cleaning once in a while.I never existed in that house except when my mother needed to unburden herself by beating me until I bled allover or her hands got tired or the tool she used to beat got broken.And the reason for that?? Absolutely nothing.My sibling blamed me for her wrongdoings and another sibling teamed up with her in her lies.When things happened around the house that mom didn't approve of,my mom would ask my sibling first and she and her minion would deny.That was enough for my mom to decide that I was the culprit and she never asked if I did it.Her logic is if the other two denied,then it must be definitely me.I was never given a chance to explain my side.Once I heard her confessing to her friend that she knew I was not mischievous Despite the fact she punished me in front of her other kids intentionally.This was the best way to discipline the other kids.They know by example how bloody it can get,when they see older one getting beaten. And she laughed loud as if it was funny.
One form of abuse stopped and other abuse started.How can a person who gave birth to me can do such horrific things?? |
Reply With Quote |
MuseumGhost, nonightowl, RoxanneToto, unaluna
|
nonightowl
|
Grand Magnate
MuseumGhost
Fortior cotidie
Member Since: Apr 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,257
12.3k hugs
given |
#39
Oh, Mendingmysoul, that is terrible to hear. NO child should ever have to endure such treatment. I am close to tears just thinking about it.
|
Reply With Quote |
nonightowl, RoxanneToto
|
Mendingmysoul, nonightowl
|
Grand Member
Mendingmysoul
has no updates.
Member Since: Aug 2019
Location: Here
Posts: 907
807 hugs
given |
#40
Thank you MG,you have no idea,how a little validation and kindness becomes a lifeline for me .Your words meant a lot .I have never shared anything to anyone in real life.I have shared some here.Someone just acknowledging my experience is very healing for me.Thank you again dear.
|
Reply With Quote |
dzrtgirl, nonightowl
|
nonightowl
|