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#1
Mar 28, 2011, 09:15 PM
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I was going to post this in the "Psychiatric Med" Forum, but decided to here because it's about PAIN......unrelenting horrible burning debilitating maddening PAIN
 I know that Xanax is highly addictive and I was wondering how much do you consider to be 'too much'.....? I have Fentanyl Patches on hand, but I don't want to use them constantly, because I know that my tolerance to them will just continue to get higher. (I used to be on the highest dose and I don't want to get back to that circus) And when they wear off, the pain sets in...... I also have Hydrocodone for BT pain. I also take Neurontin..... It has taken a long time to finally find this 'cocktail' that works. I'm just wondering if it's going to be a nightmare if I try to discontinue the Xanax.... My prescription is for 2mg twice a day....but I don't take that much. I only take about 1.5mg at night and I sleep like a baby (for the most part) If I'm having a particularly BAD day, or an anxiety issue sets in, I'll take more, but this only happens maybe once a week. I've heard the horror stories of Benzo withdrawal. I'm wondering how much others take and do you take it regularly or just as needed (like I do).... Thanks Fading.... 
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#2
Mar 28, 2011, 09:35 PM
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Ten years ago I took 2 mg tabs four times per day. Now I only take 1-3 mg at night. I read that it is the most addictive of all the benzodiazapines but I did okay with it.
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The purpose of life is not to be happy. It is to be useful, to be honorable, to be compassionate, to have it make some difference that you have lived and lived well. anonymous |
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#3
Mar 29, 2011, 04:15 AM
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I have the same concerns...the xanax losing it's effectiveness and my dose keeps increasing. I'm trying to taper off my usage. I asked my doctor how much is too much and he said I have enough on my plate right now so he will monitor that
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 Children's talent to endure stems from their ignorance of alternatives. ~ Maya Angelou Thank you SadNEmpty for my avatar and signature.
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#4
Mar 29, 2011, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
In my case, I have a muscle relaxer (Zanaflex) on hand. It is not addictive, nor is it a controlled substance (at least where I live anyway)... This way I don't have to rely solely on the Xanax. These are for my pain issues. I also take an anti-depressant (Wellbutrin) and it helps keep my anxiety down. Hopefully we'll get some more feedback on this issue. I wish you the best Fading
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#5
Mar 29, 2011, 07:14 AM
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Hey, just a thought......I have valium as well as clonazepam for the fire pain (Nerve damage).......the clon seems to work a treat. All other benzos I have tried work for a few days and then stop working even on the highest dose. The clon seems to make me sleep for at least 4 hours a night which is the best I have had in 20 years and I am .50 off the full dose. Thinking of increasing it, but don't want to do that in case I build a tolerance....
 But, I was wondering if you could talk to your doc about clonazepam replacing the Xanax........ Take care. Getting the right pain meds is a pain (forgive the pun  ). I was put on clon by a pain management specialist doctor (Psychiatrist/Anaesthesiologist).Good luck Michah
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For all things Light and Dark.......http://thedemonrun.wordpress.com/  The only Truth that exists..... .........Is that there is no absolute Truth. |
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#6
Mar 29, 2011, 11:51 AM
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Speaking from a pharmacological standpoint, you need to be continuously wear your patches for them to work properly. Fentanyl has the shortest half-life of just about all the narcotic pain-relievers, and yes, is very potent (but, clearly there's a very good reason your physician feels you need them), but, and given that is the case, it's critical that they're used exactly as directed. One reason, is that anxiety and restlessness are amongst the first signs of opiate withdrawal. Second, anxiety, stress, and related depression are related to uncontrolled pain-it's important to ask yourself, are you a hundred percent certain that you need to be on powerful pain meds: my guess is probably so. Clearly, you are seeking advice for a reason. Uncontrolled chronic pain promptly results in severe anxiety and severe depression: I am a case in point, my friend, trust me-and you could ask my psychiatrist. I used to be on oxycontin, and due to malabsorption issues, was not absorbing enough of the med for them to be even present on a UA toxicology screen. Very mild amounts were found in my blood when later drawn--but only because I was crushing (nasty and very bitter, but for me the only effective route of administration: plus it was how my physician at the time had instructed me to take it...but it was several tablespoons of sugar to get the taste out of my mouth...), but when my "Idiopathic Malabsorption Syndrome," and related gluten allergy was diagnosed, I was switched to methadone and oxycodone plain, and in liquid form (turned out the percocet that was supposed to help my pain had gluten in it, and was making me worse: pain being a symptom of a gluten allergy); and has become much more effective and in generally lower doses: would be more effective if the doctor would properly prescribe it, but that's a Pandora's Box that doesn't apply to you. My point is that the Duragesic/Fentanyl patches are designed to be taken and changed every 48-72 hours, depending on how the physician has directed-which is tailored to your absorption rates, etc. Generally speaking, actually, and to most people's surprise (patients, I mean), Fentanyl takes a very long time to build a tolerance to. The physical/physiological reason is that it's slowly and continuously released into the blood, and stored in the body's tissues and fat cells, which allows it to continue to be released, even if the patch were to "run dry" (run out of meds), or be taken off-this is not how it is designed to be taken, or it results in withdrawal symptoms, which can include severe anxiety, restlessness, pain that is difficult to control even with BTP meds, depression, and other, and a very long list of meds (you can email me for a complete list: I do have a Word document that details the nearly complete list of signs and symptoms of narcotic/opiate withdrawal), and the problem with how you're taking it is that you're building just enough of it in your system that your body gets used to it, and kinda goes, "Hey, what the heck happened? Where's my meds?" just as it would if you stopped an antidepressant (which also has, and sometimes life-threatening withdrawal effects if suddenly discontinued), although Fentanyl's withdrawal symptoms have a delayed effect of withdrawal if the patch is not replaced. If your doc has told you to take it in this manner: this is, even according to the directions by the manufacturer in both the patient education the pharmacy hands out, and medical literature, is the improper prescribing of this drug. And when you have a legitimate condition, and very few docs in this day and age will write a script for fentanyl to a patient that doesn't, that requires long-term narcotic therapy, fentanyl is actually amongst the safest meds to use long-term. Fentanyl needs to be consistently in the system: you need to make sure the patch is correctly applied (to skin, preferrably the abdomen or torso, but not breasts-in women, or really in men either-so chest on the shoulder, in the abdomen, avoiding the beltline, or anywhere that's going to have clothing rubbing: the abdomen gives the best absoption: but these directions are all in the literature that comes with your patches. But my guess is the anxiety and depression is because of a combination of uncontrolled pain and incorrect (through understandable concerns about dependence) application and consumption of the fentanyl: not to do with the Xanax. If I were still a professional working in "the biz," I would be more concerned that you're not taking the fentanyl on a constant basis: it sounds like you need to have a conversation with the doctor that prescribes the fentanyl about your concerns about dependence and tolerance so this can be explained: but the two narcotics that they prescribe that are long-term in patients who have long-term chronic conditions requiring long-term therapy with narcotic medications, are methadone and fentanyl patches: the fentanyl because of the side-effect profile, and the length of time it takes for tolerance to build. I was on fentanyl for 2 years (almost exactly 24 months), and it wasn't until about 22 months that they had to bump my dose, and that was only because I developed two problems: first, a new condition that increased my pain levels, and second, a deterioration in the condition they were prescribing it for; resulting in further increased pain levels, and they only had to bump it from a 75ucg/hr patch to a 100ucg/hr patch. I stayed there for two more months, before insurance reasons (this was before generic was available, but the insurance required my doctor attempt therapy with methadone because I am allergic to the cheap adhesive in the generic version that had finally been released, and couldn't get the patches to stick; and therefore and obviously to work), forced me to be switched to methadone: and to be perfectly honest, I prefer the patches-they provide a very constant and much more stable blood level: which is why they're effective. And when the med is effective, there's fewer side effects, because you can successfully use the lowest effective dose, and get good relief. But you have to trust your doc's judgement (and your own) for this to work. But honestly, I'd be more concerned about the dose of Xanax you're having to take because of the effects of probably uncontrolled pain mixed with some mild withdrawal symptoms from the "sparing" use of your patches. And believe me, it feels like jumping into the deep end of the pool when you're first learning how to swim to get on something like that--and you're being responsible to have concerns: and if you do have psychiatric issues, yes, you're at higher risk. But it seems that if your doc trusts you with the med and is aware of it, and your psychiatrist is too, then maybe trying to give yourself some well-earned pain relief is the thing to do. From personal experience, and on CP person to another: you deserve not to be in pain; and you deserve not to be depressed and anxious: and you may or may not be aware of the connection between the unrelieved CP and the level of depression and anxiety that rapidly sets in, and how bad it can be-and believe me, I know: I've had intractable pain for a long, long time. But tolerance wise, fentanyl is one of the safest I am aware of. But if you're unsure, call your pharmacist, and ask; or your local Poison Control (they don't just have info on bleach and household poisons: they're often an EXCELLENT 24/7 resource on medication side effects and interactions, and often have qualified pharmacists, chemists, etc on duty to answer questions~or at least trained paramedics, nurses, or other paraprofessionals, or professionals with extensive experience with pharmacology). But lastly, this may not be the choice for you long-term if you are so uncomfortable with it. And concern for addiction is completely legitimate...but you have it for a reason, and I suppose it boils down to if you trust yourself with the patches. Know the warning signs of addiction; but don't fear it--it too, is treatable. And there's a far cry between being physically dependent on a medication to live your life with the quality of life that each and every one of us, as human beings deserve and have earned, and becoming addicted. Unfortunately, tolerance develops: but it also develops with non-addictive medications that are not "controlled substances," or even on the DEA's list of "scheduled medications." And before I shut up: case in point, me. I have been on Tegretol, essentially for about 15-16 years. In the beginning, my maintenance dose was 400mg/day. Then after a few years, it was 600mg. By the time I'd been on it 8-10 years, I was up to 1200mg. But even five years later, they've only had to bump it up another 200mg...this is not uncommon with any drug-narcotics or otherwise. It's why some antidepressants and other medications (including Xanax) stop working at some doses faster than others, but all of them eventually do (and xanax much more so than even fentanyl)...any medications, the body is going to get used to them, and require more: or stop working, etccc, at least at safe or approved doses: this is why we continue to follow with our physicians, keep track of symptoms. Just the same as this site has a diary (two, I believe) for mood symptoms, many people keep pain journals, some every day others a couple times a week, even a only a few times a month...with close monitoring, it'd probably be a good idea to look at maybe that your pain is not controlled, and maybe that could be why your anxiety level is so high, and the anxiety is secondary to uncontrolled pain. As I said; uncontrolled pain has been well documented in leading to depression and anxiety: they go hand in hand. I've seen it personally in myself, friends, etc: and in patients I cared for when I used to work as an RN. Can I give you professional advice? No. Personal advice? Probably not. But I can give you my experience from both sides of the needle, so to speak, and I honestly believe that if your doc wants you on continuous fentanyl, there's a good reason, that yes, this drug is designed to be administered continually except when given for breakthrough pain in sublingual form: but the majority of those cases, people are also on a long-acting pain medication. Why? They have pain, and it is real. I believe yours to be. I think you need to take the meds as your doctor has told you, start trusting him/her, and also you. You have obviously got sound judgement if you're even concerned-heck, I'd be worried if you ran straight to the pharmacy and started popping the xanax and the patches were on as soon as you were in the car. But, one last time: they're not made, meant to be, or designed for "sparing use." JMO is that your anxiety is probably from your pain: and that you need to look at the cause of the anxiety, treat that, and I'd bet that your need for the xanax will slowly go down. Best of luck--let us know how things turn out: sorry this is so long: I had "one of those nights" and a really rotten evening: and I have ADHD and an innate ability to restate my point, stray from said point, and also to repeat myself...my apologies for doing so...could be the 2 hours of sleep....now for a cure for PTSD-related insomnia, but there isn't one....and I've tried it all-literally from natural stuff to just about, if not every sleep med they make...but this isn't my insomnia thread! But I hope this was helpful to you. Please message me if I can be of more help. I am no longer an RN, but I did practice for 12 years, and go to school for 5, and I keep current on CME's just in case of the possibility of a "body transplant..." 
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Cheers! Jenna --Show me a sane man, and I will cure him --Carl Jung 
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#7
Mar 29, 2011, 12:57 PM
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xanax is an anti anxiety medication. I have never heard of using it for pain. it is very addictive. like another poster said if you have the patches then by all means use them but use them properly. you really don't want to use alot of different medications.
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He who angers you controls you! |
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#8
Mar 29, 2011, 03:08 PM
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If the MAX you are taking is 2, I wouldn't think you'd have anything to worry about. BUT do NOT stop taking it cold-turkey!!! That is dangerous, and you could have a seizure.
I DID become addicted to Xanax, but i did abuse the drug. I was taking it for panic attacks -- and I had quite a few panic attacks daily - so i was taking quite a few Xanax!! Then I began taking the medication even if I DIDN'T have a panic attack. So I had to get off of them!!! It's HARD getting off of Xanax - I'm not gonna sugar coat it. It's miserable. So be careful with the drug -- don't abuse it. Best of luck & god bless. Hugs, Lee |
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#9
Mar 30, 2011, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Perhaps I should clarify a bit..... My inquiry has to do with wondering if others take Xanax on a continual basis or on an 'as-needed' basis. I do not take the Xanax as a 'pain medication'....I take it as PART of my pain management regime..... (apologies for not being more clear on that). Just as the Neurontin is not a 'pain' medication - it is an anti-seizure med used off-label in many patients who suffer from burning neuorpathy-type pain. Similarly, the Xanax has been very effective in 'calming' the nerves that are 'mis-firing' due to the RSD condition when I am in a full flare. In my case it has proven to be much more effective than the muscle relaxer, as my condition is not about muscle pain. Additionally, it has the added benefit of helping with sleep.....less anxiety...better sleep. So, yes, I am taking the Xanax as an Anti-anxiety med but it is a part of my overall pain management. Michah, thank you for that input! Your suggestion is a good one and I'll bring that up with doc at my next visit. Regarding the patches, that is a different issue, and my doctor and I have a clear understanding as to how and why I use the patches the way I do (I make them last 5 days rather than 3). I am very familiar with the patches and have taken them off and on throughout the years (NOT to be mistaken with 'MIS-use'!) Meaning, I have used them for periods (months) of time and then quit using them for periods (months) at a time. Many chronic pain pts require several different medications. That should go without saying. Respectfully, Fading
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#10
Apr 08, 2011, 01:58 AM
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I take 4 mg a day and I have a ton of chronic pain issues, but it was never written for pain. I would check with your Dr.
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#11
Apr 13, 2011, 03:21 PM
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I am new to the community, currently on a 25mcg Fentanyl patch (was on a 50mcg) but weaned off when I couldn't afford it. I was given 0.5mg of Xanax through the withdrawal process for anxiety/sleep. I also take 10mg Lortabs atleast 5 1/2 of those a day. I also take 10mg Flexeril 3x's/day. (muscle relaxer) I applied for a patient assistant program to get my Fentanyl patches for free, but as they are having manufacturing problems right now I am scared to go back up to a stronger dosage. My Xanax was upped to 1mg 3x's/day a couple months ago & just recently got 10mg Ambien for sleep. I took ambien as a teeneager, but it's not helping me sleep at all. It's no different than Advil PM! I would really like to be back on 10mg Valium to help with my issues with anxiety/sleep, but I also know I become tolereant to it like the Xanax too. I just recently lost my 12 month insurance program so I can't get anymore epidurals or trigger point injections at this time because I can't afford them. Been so stressed out lately that I have been eating my Xanax too much. Kinda like someone up above mentioned, they are tolerant & still have anxiety. I wanna up my Fentanyl patch for my pain issues, but until the pharmacies get some in I can't afford the generic! I also want to know if I do go up on those my doctor will be behind me & help me with an alternative medication if they don't have any patches in stock! I am currently in the middle of my disability hearing is being appealed to the Appeals Council (because of my pain managment doctors records.) He was supposedly behind me & my disability case, but in the middle of my hearing he said I was right handed, but I am left handed. He also stated I "increased my work hours with increased pain" when I told him I was no longer employed because of increased pain. He also states hehas given me numerous physical examinations, even though I have never been on his exam table, ever, & he has never even touched me except to shake my hand when he walks in the door. I don't even think I have ever had an appointment with him that lasted more than 2-7minutes. No nurse or assistant has ever been present either. I am going throug so much pain & so much stress & anxiety....just trying to stay strong! I had moved in with my boyfriend Oct. 2008 after my house burned down from an electrical fire & lost everything I ever owned. The money I had in CD's in the bank is what I have been living off of since not being employed since Sept. 26th, 2009. My money is gonna run out this year. So much stuff is going on & if it wasn't for my medical records from my pain management doctor, things would be a lot different right now! My parents don't help me...they house my 31yr old sister & help out my 40 year old brother, who never wants to work. I am the middle child who has always been able to take care of myself & now I'm stressing out because I have never not been able to work before. I also don't want things to get bad between me & my boyfriend over money! I have become very secluded from friends, family, social outings & everything. It is making me kind of depressed. I am trying very hard to stay positive! My Xanax is not enough everday to help with the anxiety I have daily. Hope when I go see my doctor at the end of the month I can discuss these things with her. My primary doctor has been very good to me. She seems like she understands what I am going through, but at the same time is just concerned about my depressed moods. I hope things will end up working out for the best....It will be a long time to tell....especially if I have to start all over with my disability case. I know it's hard being on medications....you always become tolerant pretty quick.
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#12
Apr 16, 2011, 07:33 AM
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About the xanax... I take .5 mg times two a day extended release. I have been on this for three to five years with no increase in dosage. Mine is for anxiety but I do have chronic pain as well
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Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. Oscar Wilde Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich The road to hell is paved with good intentions. "And psychology has once again proved itself the doofus of the sciences" Sheldon Cooper 
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#13
Apr 20, 2011, 07:01 AM
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Hey,
Bout them docs you don't trust... Invest in a digital recording device; or if you have an iPhone or Droid, download an app (most the good ones are free-but ya gotta try them out to make sure they're longer than just 10-20 min) that will record for you, and record the stupid appointment!!! I do it all the dang time. I put my digital video recorder gently in it's case on the "audio only" setting; smaller file, and much less battery drain; and my bag will be on my lap, and as soon as the door opens, my finger hits the "go" button, and I merely set the bag on the floor and act as if all is normal. There is nothing in the "Rules and Responsibilities" that states you cannot bring in a recording device and record the appointment: not a single place does it state this!!! Doctors (and other ancillary staff as well, believe me!!!) are busy 90% of the day covering their a**es, and I see absolutely no reason why a patient, if they are unsure as to the care they are getting, should not be allowed to record it while in motion. If in doubt, check out this link: http://www.ndtv.com/video/special/nu...ake-201/171880 This man and his family (the man, who previously had normal brain functioning, and could communicate via special computer), were concerned about the care he was receiving from an agency, and placed a camera, unbeknownst to the staff, by his bed, that they could not see, and it caught the "nurse" fiddling with, and "accidentally" turning his ventilator off (he was a vent dependent quadroplegic after an accident; but highly functioning); and also it caught that she seemed completely unable to turn it back on or restore his access to oxygen; which was not done until 22 minutes later when paramedics arrived, and hooked him up and manually gave him the oxygen. Too late. A day late, and a dollar short. He suffered permanent brain damage, and now has the brain function of a 2-year old: if that. So if you weren't a believer before, how about now? Give the video a watch; it's about 2 minutes long; edited for tele obviously! My own case in point was that I took my own meds, hit record before entering the ER, and got my own voice saying, "I have AVN; am scheduled for surgery; and had a sudden and severe increase in symptoms (not saying the word pain), and my surgeon sent me here for an x-ray." Bless my recorder, because it not only caught that I did not receive the "Thorough examination by a physician" their own narcotics policy "promises," and talks about how it's all "for the good of the patient, etc, etc. Uh, huh. I won't go there; my own feelings aside, the doctor never examined me: except to be sure I understood the policy.  And the nurse? Oh, what a gem! Puts my crutches out of reach; then doesn't answer my call light-I could see her sitting on her butt, which is fatter than my own, at the nurse's station the majority of the time, but the first words she said when she brought me back was about "How slammed we are tonight." I also got out of her? Ninety plus minutes of a full bladder, unable to reach my crutches, and her turning my light off four times; and the fourth time, when answering it, and finding out I "only" needed to pee, instead of going to the "trouble" of just giving me my crutches and pointing to the general direction of the bathroom; I was forced to watch her start "stalking" out; and knew it'd be another 90 minutes, and suffering already from an overactive bladder-so really feeling like I'm gonna blow, I reached out to just touch her arm, and no more--and "beg" for my crutches, she says (bless my recorder), "If you ever lay another finger on me again, I will prosecute you for custodial assault, a felony, and make sure that for the 'safety of staff' you are restrained any time you are seen at any of our ER's." Big mistake: not big---huge!!! Ya dummy, ya ever heard of "candid camera??? I got my crutches after just "plaintively" telling her that was all I wanted; but had to pick them up off the floor. Bless my camera. The next day, I compresssed the file; and burned it to a DVD. I ended up needing several copies. I complained to the insurance: they were great, and took my word, and written complaint. The Board of Nursing (threatening a patient with restraint for a mere touch on the arm is called "unprofessional conduct," and in some states, assault IV), and Physician licensure, as well as the hospital's "patient relations" department stated it would be "your word against theirs." I said, "Well, actually no. Please give me your address, and I will send proof." I send copies of the DVD's to each. Only response I got was from the hospital; stating the RN had been "Disciplined" and the doc had been "spoken to by the head of his department" about appropriate care, and conduct, and gee, they hoped I would pick their hospital again if I needed emergency care. Now who's crazy??? So, yeah, I keep a regular supply of extra sets of lithium batteries for my recorder. No, I don't record every appointment with every doc, or every conversation (accomplished by hitting "record" while they're on speaker-you can simply tell them you're alone, and charging the phone, sorry for the "inconvenience." That's also the perfect opportunity for a reliable witness to listen in). Other ideas are taking someone you trust with you to an appointment; and to simply have them back you up if push comes to shove. My point is; don't ever be afraid to CY OWN *****. Docs do it constantly, RN's do it, and so do other ancillary staff: they are out for themselves; the majority of the time--there are a few good ones...let that be said. And sometimes, the extent they go to should be caught too! But if it's recording the visit; if it's taking a trusted friend or family member with you--if this doc has ever given you any reason to be doubtful: digital audio recorders are about $40 plus shipping on amazon.  Just my own opinion...sorry about the (usual) length: just gettin' back on my ADHD meds; had to be off for my surgery...so there you have it, I guess....(eventually!!!  )
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Cheers! Jenna --Show me a sane man, and I will cure him --Carl Jung
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#14
Apr 26, 2011, 11:57 AM
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now that we have the small recorders i too would use them in certain settings. it always boils down to he said, she said, and the patient is always the crazy one. especially if you are long term care and see a therapist, they always tend to dig ....stuff up, to make you out to be the bad guy. that's why so many suffer pain in silence
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#15
Apr 26, 2011, 04:24 PM
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I do record if it's a new doctor; especially if it's the ER; but generally, the majority of the time, I don't feel the need to keep it, or burn it to DVD: unless there's a reason to--like it's part of a dispute resolution, etc. But one time, I had to record a conversation with my mother: she said stuff to me I won't repeat (name calling, etc-really nasty stuff), and accused me of trying to "use my help to get cash" or some equally crazy nonesense to just do her "crazy-making" that is a part of her disorder. I confronted her on it; of course, out came the denial and that I was "crazy" for even "suggesting she would say such a thing..." etc, etc, that is part of her disorder (she has a Personality Disorder...), and we were in the last therapy session before I went "No contact," that time--which lasted for about six years, and I clicked "Play" on the tape recorder (I'd purchased a small tape recorder); and her own voice convicted her. Because as the "family patient," I am as you say, the "crazy one" (and this obviously carries to the doctor's office); and it's funny how things changed when all in the room finally, after so many years, heard several "splices" of stuff she would say to me...it was very validating-my father, sister, and brother all apologized for not believing me; that she had told them so convincingly that I was just "so sick and was 'causing trouble' and she couldn't understand why I was behaving like that 'after all she'd done for me...yadda yadda yadda" (it was also played in court when I got my restraining order--which made history in the county I live in: I was the first person to ever get a Domestic Violence Protection Order against a parent) and I got the order in under four minutes because I had proof of the constant barrage of emotional and psychological abuse (also had letters from my PCP that I had chronic illness which was exerbated by contact with her, a letter from my shrink and my therapist all submitted to the court); and she showed up with a stack of receipts over a 3 year period of "all the times I helped with groceries" The judge didn't look, and said it was irrelevant and did not prove to her satisfaction that she wasn't abusive. Btw, over that three years, the receipts amounted to about $140. I sent her a check, which of course, was promptly cashed. My point? I think that what some of these doctors say and do in any other situation: domestic or outside the medical profession, would be considered emotional or psychological abuse. And it's high time we get proof of it, since as they told me, "It's your word against theirs." But after I said I had a DVD that proved otherwise, their tunes were changed. Let's tune the piano a bit, if you know what I mean... An "attitude adustment," maybe? But really, I am just sick of it; and I don't want to have to worry about "Oh, are they gonna believe me?" Because I've been assaulted in an ER by a staff member, which I did not report for five days because I feared I wasn't gonna be believed. Solution? I went to the cops first; then the hospital. The hospital's first words, quote: "You haven't called the police yet, have you?" Mine, quote: "Oh, yes, I called them first. The detective will be in touch shortly." Dead silence on the line for a full 30 seconds, and I finally asked the administrator if they were still there....he was probably cleaning up himself...lol ... So sometimes we have to go outside of it to get people to believe us, even when we don't have proof.It also helped that the officer who took my report was a good friend of mine.... These may not be "admissible in court" but they can sure go a long way in proving what they call so gently "misconduct." We have to be our own advocates: no one is gonna stand up and do it for us. JMO.
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Cheers! Jenna --Show me a sane man, and I will cure him --Carl Jung
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#16
May 01, 2011, 04:26 PM
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Sure enough, they have a 'marvelous' way of turning the tables.You sure hit the nail on the head with the 'suffering in silence'.... It's a sad state of affair, I do declare! Thanks for your input Fading
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#17
May 01, 2011, 11:12 PM
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Fading, When you get your prog notes, they may not give you copies without charging you for them. Here's a way to avoid that: tell them you're going for a "second opinion, consult, or another doctor (altogether)" and they are required by law to provide them at no charge; but tell them you'd "forgotten to ask them, and I'm oh, so sorry, but I need to pick them up tomorrow on my way to the appointment...." Still required to provide the copies. They may drag their feet, and it may be like pulling teeth, or they migh just hand them over; most do-just a few suggestions for the ones who may not. But be prepared for one thing: what is written may not just be "inaccurate" altogether, but the docs often editorialize, or they may make their own opinions or comments on not just what they think about YOU, but what their opinion is of you personally. For example, I had a doc from the ER prescribe like 10 tablets of Tramadol-and I was on Suboxone; so I could not take any opiate narcotics. Now, don't get the wrong idea: I was not on Suboxone because I am "into" opiates in terms of screwing around with them, taking them to "get high" or have ever really even abused them. I had just stopped drinking, and was concerned on my own about my chronic pain treatment, so I asked my shrink (who is a Suboxone provider, as about half his practice is Addiction Medicine; so I had turned to him on my own for management-of course Suboxone is "off label" for use in CP-of my CP) to prescribe the Suboxone while I was in early recovery from my "drug of choice," which was, is, and always has been, alcohol. But anyhow, the Subs weren't working at all for my CP at all, and my PCP was highly agitated when I told her of the shrink's plans to take me off the Suboxone, but in the interim; he'd prescribed me a middle of the road dose of Tramadol to get me through the transition off the Suboxone: and her notes read "This patient is a 'polysubstance abuser,' with a lengthy and documented history of drug-seeking, and manipulating other providers for drugs (bold print was in the record; I did not add this) and Dr. _______ has prescribed Tramadol for her 'claims' of 'severe chronic pain' which has largely been undocumented.' I would not have done or recommended this for this particular patient. She is highly manipulative with a long history of psychiatric illness with varying diagnoses, and questionable diagnosis of Munchausen Syndrome, which I would tend to support." Ok, first; my "polysubstance" abusing consists of mixing different types of liquor instead of say, sticking to just vodka for one night, or just sticking to wine coolers over one night. You get the idea. The only "lengthy and long-documented history of drug-seeking and manipulating other providers," is BS: she'd been my PCP for nine years (of course, she was no longer once I read the note: I immediately found someone else), and any illness had been well documented, my lupus properly diagnosed, as was the SPS, the MCTD, and so on by the rheumy of her choice. My SPS titers were always within diagnostic range...and never below 65 or so: considers it fairly significant disease. My back issues are well-documented by MRI from the same MRI place I have gone to over the last 10 years. It has showed continuing and worsening disease in my lumbar spine. The only place that had ever said "drug-seeker" was one specific ER and it was probably because I had one of their phlebotomists arreseted and sent to prison for grabbing my hand and....(use your imagination) while I was sedated for having a dislocated shoulder pulled back into place, and was coming out of a state of sedation (not anesthesia, though: conscious sedation) and many of the staff resented me for it, and it for sure showed. I have not been back since. And the only time Munchausen was ever mentioned was over 5 years ago; and it was an unsupervised, 3rd year med student, and I never returned there either. But somehow, she got into those records also, even though I didn't release them. But right down even to every last bladder infection, every case of the flu, even when I broke my leg: I produced x-rays to back it up. When my Dequervein's tendonitis for which I had surgery 12 years ago (I keep operative notes on any surgeries); I produced records. I learned very quickly after my bipolar diagnosis that medically, you pretty much now have to "prove yourself" to get taken seriously, so I keep my own "Personal Medical Record." It's much easier now; all I have to keep track of is the x-rays, MRI's, etc, and lab reports. Then periodically, I make up an excuse, or have my shrink request them, I get my chart notes from any PCP I am seeing, and I keep my own notes on each and every visit, and I belong to Regence Blue Shield, and they have a website where you keep track of all of it: who your providers are; their specialties, and their addresses and contact info. Then they have the unlimited section of an area for you to make notes on each doctor visit to each specialist; it pulls the list of meds from your claims history along with who prescribed it; and you also enter in each procedure, hospitalization you've ever had, along with the name of the treating doctor/surgeon. The super cool thing is you can click on what you want to include, and download it every now and then to a PDF and take it to new provider appointments, specialists, and then all you have to do is toss in the labs (which your MD is required to provide you with copies, at your request of, and this includes tests, such as echocardiograms, EKG's-at the time of the EKG, you can ask for a copy-they may fight you, but stick to it, and PFT's, etc). If you want to sit down and read your whole file, that's different: they will ask for a "formal request" and their clinic policy may insist that someone is present supposedly that if you have any questions, a "qualified person" is present to answer them, if possible (probably more like so you don't steal the notes? jeez, they're on computer for the love of God!!!). But, as they say, often times, there's three sides to every story. Person #1, then Person #2 (provided there's only 2 people involved), and then there's the truth. But in terms of what is what really happened, my own records seem to be more accurate. But ya know, I'm thinking it's time to start rounding up the latest set of notes...... The reason being, except my surgeon-since my surgery was April 15; every provider I've spoken to has been doing the "Drug speech," which includes the following statements (whether or not you ever at any point asked for, brought up, or said anything about being in pain, or "asking" for narcotics):
Yo, what a system we have, huh?
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Cheers! Jenna --Show me a sane man, and I will cure him --Carl Jung
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