I've got it. I've figured it out. (maybe)

What triggers active predatory aggression is flaws and the desire to exploit them. It doesn't really matter what the system is, which is why the feeling is the same regardless of whether it's exploiting a hole in someone's argument during a debate, finding your way through a cave system, or noticing a security flaw in a bank. It's seeing that angle. Do other people get this and just not act on it because of remorse or whatever? Or do most people not get this sort of feeling at all?

I've been trying to understand why I'm prone to sudden aggression at times, and I had this thought. I'm not sure if anyone else will find it enlightening, but make of it what you will.

[Pygmalion]

I don't know if I'm prone to this or not. I barely understand myself.
I'm mostly a coward and quite powerless and fairly aware of consequences so I don't do anything 'bad'. But I also kinda want to kill every living thing in the universe.
I don't think I care about other peoples weaknesses or whatever, lol.

[divine1966]

I am prone to some anger and aggression. For me it is usually when I have no control over the situation or when things don’t go the way I want them to go, pretty much my way lol

The reasons I try not to act aggressively (I still do but I try not to) are not wanting to hurt others and understanding logically that these are my issues, not other people’s and my expectations are usually unreasonably high. So I try to use common sense

I don’t exploit other people’s weaknesses though.

Originally Posted by divine1966

I am prone to some anger and aggression. For me it is usually when I have no control over the situation or when things don’t go the way I want them to go, pretty much my way lol

Yeah, I get aggressive when frustrated, too. That usually seems like more of a negative emotional response, though. I should've mentioned this in the original post, but active predatory aggression always feels a bit more positive. I like arguing and exploring caves and robbing ba *cough* ... Err ...

Originally Posted by Pygmalion

But I also kinda want to kill every living thing in the universe.

Interesting.

[Open Eyes]

There is a certain "normal" amount of predator in many that goes back to how man needed to hunt to survive and it felt positive to hunt, empowering which was necessary to thrive.

[JupiterBraytech]

I understand exactly how you feel. Or at least I think I do. Let me know if this sounds familiar.

1: you view yourself as a predatory animal such as a wolf or a fox. And use them to represent yourself.

2: you consider yourself to be a leader of group. You expect full respect and full insulted when your challenged. You feel the immediate urge to put a person in their place quickly and without mercy. And you have done this before. And this includes any friends or family.

3: You hate it when people expect you to be polite and respectful. Although your completely capable of it, you feel important and think they need to earn your respect. And if the demand it then they don't deserve it.

4: You feel the need to be a puzzle. You need to make everyone question your motives and thoughts. You leave clues everywhere and leave symbols and such that mean something specific or something important to you. You want to people to be confused as otherwise you feel threatened. You always need to be one step ahead.

5: Although you may feel deep pain or anger and on rare occasion you may cry. Let's say every few months to once a year. You find enjoyment on inflecting your feelings on your targets as you view them as weak minded. Your the alpha and it doesn't matter who they are. They most likely don't deserve their power. So you will take it from them by manipulation.

6: You use your friendliness to draw in possible allies, that you can use to your advantage. You twist their view to make yourself the victim.

Do you feel like this too? Or is it just me?

1. I've used animal metaphors to explain things before; e.g. feel a bit like a cat does when it's toying with a mouse, get like a shark does when there's blood in the water (this is good for the predatory aggression), wolf in sheep's clothing/sheep in wolf's clothing, etc. However, I try not to overdo it with these metaphors because a lot of people already see psychopaths as subhuman, and I don't want to perpetuate that notion.

2. It tends to end up that way, especially if something needs to be done.

3. I had to think about this one for a minute. My default mask is "polite," so I normally come off as polite in most surface-level exchanges without really even trying. Also, it affords me a lot of trust from acquaintances and leeway in my social interactions, so I don't mind it.

This can change on a dime, though, trigged by the following:

- I'm irritated, which can be made worse when someone expects me to act polite for their benefit.
- I get the impression that someone is taking my "politesse" too far and attempting to guilt trip me into giving them something.
- Someone expects me to be polite and respectful outside of "business hours." If you want to hang out with me on my personal time, then you get the far less restrained me (which always surprises people for some reason). As someone else mentioned in another thread, wearing masks all the time can get tiring. I need my downtime, too, and I'm not keeping up the mask just to pacify someone else's precious feelings. This is probably why I can't keep a longterm relationship.

4. Not really. Yeah, I keep my cards pretty close to my chest, but that's just the nature of things. I've never felt like it was a necessity. And yeah, I suppose it would amuse me a little when people would call me mysterious or whatever, but I've gotten bored of that. Recently, I've been trying to find likeminded people so that I can understand myself better.

5. I can cry pretty easily, just not genuinely. I think it's a mirror thing. Nothing ever really sticks. I have cried genuinely on a handful of occasions, but those moments were short-lived.

I do enjoy moving others to various emotions because I find emotions to be weirdly fascinating. It's like learning a video game. You push buttons to figure out how the game works. Press X to get reaction "cry."

6. Yes to the former, no to the "victim" bit. Being perceived as a victim undermines my authority.

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

There is a certain "normal" amount of predator in many that goes back to how man needed to hunt to survive and it felt positive to hunt, empowering which was necessary to thrive.

True. There's been some research on the Warrior Gene and aggression.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0121093343.htm

In the experiment, which is the first to examine a behavioral measure of aggression in response to provocation, subjects were asked to cause physical pain to an opponent they believed had taken money from them by administering varying amounts of hot sauce.

...

Their results demonstrate that:

-Low-activity MAOA subjects displayed slightly higher levels of aggression overall than high-activity MAOA subjects.
-There was strong evidence for a gene-by-environment interaction, such that MAOA is less associated with the occurrence of aggression in the low-provocation condition (when the amount of money taken was low), but significantly predicted aggression in a high-provocation situation (when the amount of money taken was high).

The results support previous research suggesting that MAOA influences aggressive behavior, with potentially important implications for interpersonal aggression, violence, political decision-making, and crime. The finding of genetic influences on aggression and punishment behavior also questions the recently proposed idea that humans are “altruistic” punishers, who willingly punish free-riders for the good of the group. These results support theories of cooperation that propose there are mixed strategies in the population. Some people may punish more than others, and there may be an underlying evolutionary logic for doing so.

[sarahsweets]

I had to google the term and saw a lot of stuff about animals. The only time I have been aggressive has been where my kids are concerned. Like having to stand up for them or defend them.

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

I had to google the term and saw a lot of stuff about animals. The only time I have been aggressive has been where my kids are concerned. Like having to stand up for them or defend them.

Another term for it is "Instrumental aggression (IA)," which is "viewed as premeditated, calculated and goal-directed." article

Basically, instrumental aggression is the opposite of "defensive" or "reactionary" aggression, where you become aggressive as a reaction to a perceived threat, and the aggressive behavior is primarily driven by fear or anger. With instrumental aggression, you're not responding to a threat, but aiming to achieve a goal.

[tecomsin]

What about cases where people perceive exaggerated threats or have disproportionate reactions? A person might for example see any disagreement as a direct threat to them.

Originally Posted by tecomsin

What about cases where people perceive exaggerated threats or have disproportionate reactions? A person might for example see any disagreement as a direct threat to them.

It's still reactive and is driven by strong emotion, so it wouldn't be an example of instrumental aggression.

[TheUrOther]

I have been the target of predatory aggression all my life - to the point where people who are not normally aggressive become aggressive in my presence. Something about me short-circuits their brain and see me as someone they need to kill.

Originally Posted by TheUrOther

I have been the target of predatory aggression all my life - to the point where people who are not normally aggressive become aggressive in my presence. Something about me short-circuits their brain and see me as someone they need to kill.

That isn't true. I have no desire to kill you.

[unaluna]

This is why they say, dont poke the bear?

Poke away. Bears are afraid of being poked. Nothing bad will happen.

[JupiterBraytech]

But that all depends on what your poking the bear with. Like are you poking it with a dagger or a hot metal rod? Or is it a friendly poke?

[tecomsin]

Originally Posted by theoretical

It's still reactive and is driven by strong emotion, so it wouldn't be an example of instrumental aggression.

I was once involved with someone who faked ptsd flashbacks to the war in vietnam when he was provably taking photographs for a local newspaper in Canada. If someone deliberately throws themselves into an emotion, or 'flashback' so that they can then act out their faked emotional state, I am not really sure where the distinction lies.

You wrote:

and the aggressive behavior is primarily driven by fear or anger.

what does 'primarily' mean and who gets to decide. What if it is fear or anger about something else entirely that then gets acted out in a different arena?

I don't see this nearly as cut and dry as you do in all cases.

Originally Posted by tecomsin

I was once involved with someone who faked ptsd flashbacks to the war in vietnam when he was provably taking photographs for a local newspaper in Canada. If someone deliberately throws themselves into an emotion, or 'flashback' so that they can then act out their faked emotional state, I am not really sure where the distinction lies.

You wrote:

what does 'primarily' mean and who gets to decide. What if it is fear or anger about something else entirely that then gets acted out in a different arena?

I don't see this nearly as cut and dry as you do in all cases.

Does it need to be cut and dry in all cases? I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue.

[tecomsin]

I think it takes a detailed knowledge of another person's state of mind to determine if it is instrumental aggression or reactive. I am not sure that such knowledge is really possible about another person.

Originally Posted by tecomsin

I think it takes a detailed knowledge of another person's state of mind to determine if it is instrumental aggression or reactive. I am not sure that such knowledge is really possible about another person.

I'm not talking about other people. I'm talking about myself.

Also, the Court would disagree that it's impossible. Difficult, sure, but there are ways of determining these things.