I don't even know how I came to this realization, but something occurred to me late last night. I'm trigger-stamping this for potential emotional abuse stories.

My dad had a temper. Like, a bad temper. Most of the time, he was very friendly and excitable. His little tantrums were rare, but they were highly destructive, threatening, and you couldn't really tell what was going to set him off.

An example: We were practicing softball one day. Just me and him. He didn't have a glove, so he used mine to catch, and I pitched the balls to him. He was trying to teach me something or the other, and apparently I wasn't getting it, because he was getting frustrated. As his frustration rose, he started throwing the ball back to me harder each time. Keep in mind that I didn't have a glove, and this was an actual softball, not a foam Nerf ball or something.

This wasn't the first time I'd seen him like this, and I'd learned from past experience that saying anything or walking away would've made him lose his ****, so I just kept trying to throw the ball the way he wanted me to. Yeah, didn't work. Eventually, he whipped the ball back at me. I had to dodge it, and it landed on the other side of the street. Dad angrily asked me why I didn't catch it, and then tells me to go get it. We continued on in this manner, with him being all pissy and not a word passing between us. I was around 12 at the time.

Another example: On a drive home (him driving, me riding passenger), we were talking about my guitar lessons. It started out simply enough, with him asking if I enjoyed it, if I wanted to keep taking lessons, yadda yadda. I said that I loved it and (jokingly) that I was going to be a rockstar someday. Out of nowhere, he grabbed me by the throat and twisted my head to face him. He went off on this lengthy, profanity-laden rant about my life decisions. He asked me - and I have no idea where the hell this came from or what it was supposed to mean - but he asked me if I wanted him and my mom to become alcoholics and start abusing me, if that would make me happy. Because apparently child abuse is a prerequisite for becoming a rockstar? I don't know. I was around 14 at the time.

And honestly, these aren't even the worst examples, but it's a good illustration in that it encompasses all of the problems I had with my dad growing up, and might explain some of my psychological hang-ups. You see, I was a straight-A student, musician and athlete who took college-level courses over the summer for fun (or rather, to get out of the house). My dad got frustrated with me because I got a B in Physics. I could've handled mere disappointment. That part doesn't really bother me. It was more the fact that, if I tried to talk with him about it openly, there was a chance he'd fly into a rage. Nothing I did was ever enough, and I couldn't stand up for myself. I felt kind of powerless.

To the point, then. I'm starting to think that these incidences could explain the anxiety I have either when I need to confront someone or when I've made a mistake. I work in a high-stress environment (casino) where I regularly have to deal with angry drunks and vast sums of money. As you can imagine, freezing up is a terrible response when an angry drunk is screaming obscenities at you and your fellow co-workers and there's $10K at stake.

So, basically, I need to work on becoming more comfortable handling myself in confrontational situations. And I think I realize now why I tend to freeze up, but I'm still not sure exactly what triggers it. There are times when I'll shut down a heated argument with ease and precision, and nary a flutter of emotion passes through my psychopathic little lizard brain. I've been in fistfights, and haven't felt much of anything resembling an emotion. But then, why do I freeze up at times where there's much less tension and much less of a threat? I don't get it.

[TishaBuv]

Maybe the times you shut down you are doing self preservation.

Do you like your job? You can still become a rock star just to grind his azz. I’ll bet the drive that makes someone a rock star stems from the angst caused by their parents.

That’s what rock and roll is all about

My husband would have been more demanding like your dad had it not been for my artistic, imperfectionistic influence. I actually encouraged our son to pursue music in college and now he’s a music engineer.

If you have the educational background you said, and aren’t loving bouncing belligerent betters you may want to rethink your career.

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Maybe the times you shut down you are doing self preservation.

Do you like your job?

Probably, and logically I realize that freezing up isn't actually going to protect me should something go down, so I don't know why the hell I still do it. I want to know what causes me to freeze up and how to stop doing it.

I love my job, and I don't actually want to be a rockstar.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by theoretical

Probably, and logically I realize that freezing up isn't actually going to protect me should something go down, so I don't know why the hell I still do it. I want to know what causes me to freeze up and how to stop doing it.

I love my job, and I don't actually want to be a rockstar.

^I do!

I don’t know why either. I used to have to confront angry customers. My hands would shake, but I was able to stand up to them.

My apologies if I overstepped. I’m hopped up on coffee and full of angst myself.

[Open Eyes]

You actually answered your own question in your first post. What triggers you is "feeling powerless", and you do remember the experiences you had in your history where you were powerless when it came to how your father treated you.

That is what every single trigger and flashback I experience has in them. My being in a "powerless" position. These drunks can be triggering because when someone is drunk you never know how they will behave when you tell them to stop doing something. Some drunks can get extremely mean and act out like your father did with you when you were younger. Ironically, a lot of individuals that consume a lot of alcohol or become addicted to drugs begin using to escape their own feelings of "powerlessness" and often when someone finally does get sober it is discovered they actually suffer from ptsd. Actually this is something I learned this past year when I was interviewing potential therapists to help me with my own pstd challenge. Actually, one therapist I saw had specialized in working specifically with recovering alcoholics that also needed counseling for ptsd.

Your father was definitely not a healthy functioning parent with any capacity to nurture any child.

Do you still play the guitar?

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

You actually answered your own question in your first post. What triggers you is "feeling powerless", and you do remember the experiences you had in your history where you were powerless when it came to how your father treated you.

That is what every single trigger and flashback I experience has in them. My being in a "powerless" position. These drunks can be triggering because when someone is drunk you never know how they will behave when you tell them to stop doing something. Some drunks can get extremely mean and act out like your father did with you when you were younger.

Right, I think there must be something about either certain people or certain situations that triggers a feeling of being powerless. Although, I still don't understand why it happens sometimes and not others.

More importantly, how do I stop freezing up? I mean, I know logically that I'm not a kid anymore, that I can handle myself, and that freezing up is only going to make it worse. The best solution I can think of is to put myself in situations where I need to confront someone in order to trigger that feeling, and then relearn how to deal with it appropriately.

So, like, bar hopping? Gonna be getting into some bar fights. For therapy.

[MickeyCheeky]

I get what you mean, theoretical! I can't tell you for sure why it may happen in certain situations and not in others. Perhaps it has to do with how you feel in that given moment. If you already feel anxious and stressed out of your own for example, that may lead to you freezing out more easily. Perhaps you just freeze out when there isn't an immediate danger? After all that's what happened with your father, right? He may not have been "dangerous" but he was certainly scary to you. I'm not sure. Just some thoughts for you! Are you seeing a therapist right now? Perhaps you can try to consider that option fi you want. Either way, I wish you plenty of peace and love. Sending many safe, warm hugs to you, theoretical, and to ALL the people you love and who love you!

[eskielover]

Our background created the neural pathways we deal with in the present. Good thing is that they can be reprogrammed because the mind has neuroplasticity.

Given that FACT, I have found that the DBT section on Interpersonal Effectiveness gives some very good direction & guidance on the steps we can take to deal with difficult situations & people. However, situations don't always give us the opportunity to come out on top of a confrontation at least it gives us a very logical approach to our side.

The first thing I now do with a confrontational situation is to retreat & get over my emotional response to it. Then I sit down & put my thoughts & my side of the confrontation together. Obviously this works when the confrontation isn't on the fly but an ongoing type of confrontation.

I had one situation with a pain specialist I was seeing. Lol....even worked with my T on it but there was no discussion...their policy was being cast in concrete so I had to decide on how I was going to deal with it. (I never went back but I had enough meds to handle going off of them with my pharmacist friend to consult with) I didn't resolve the conflict but I came out much better the way it ended.

When we use a good technique for confronting conflict at least we can know we have represented out side in a logical way. Some will listen.....others won't. At that point we just just have to figure out how we want to handle it knowing the conflict is what it is.

Originally Posted by eskielover

Given that FACT, I have found that the DBT section on Interpersonal Effectiveness gives some very good direction & guidance on the steps we can take to deal with difficult situations & people. However, situations don't always give us the opportunity to come out on top of a confrontation at least it gives us a very logical approach to our side.

DBT, interesting. I'll look into it. (sidenote: Is it bad that my first thought was of Tyler Durden's homework for the members of Fight Club, that they had to get into a fight and lose? )

I don't think I need to come out on top. In fact, I think I need to get more comfortable with the possibility of losing. I sometimes get so hung up on the idea that I might do or say something wrong, that I don't do anything. And again, this doesn't happen often, but I don't know what triggers it, and that's what's so aggravating. I know I'm capable of handling these situations, but I'm paralyzed by some irrational psychological hangup I got in childhood. It's stupid, and it makes me feel stupid for being affected by it.

Now I'm just ranting again. I'll look into DBT. Thanks for the suggestion. I also had an idea about acting classes, because it requires you to act out a scenario in a relatively safe environment. I mean ... it's better than bar fights, anyway.

[Open Eyes]

I myself have had the reaction where I freeze. I understand how uncomfortable that can be. It's just a human reaction when in a situation where you are stunned with not knowing how to react. Often, part of the reason is that the behavior you are encountering may be totally illogical or extreme due to that other person's state of mind. I think that's how your father could be with you in that he tended to exhibit extreme anger or negativity to some normal simple things you failed to do or say that he needed you to do or say.

I have experienced different individuals blowing up and even raging at me or at someone else in front of me where my reaction was to freeze. Actually, one of the questions I have asked my therapists is WHY do people react and say something to ME when it's my older sister that is RAGING and acting badly. I am slowly realizing that it's because she is behaving so badly and I am the calm one and they genuinely don't know WHAT to do with her behavior that is so out of wack and raging. Part of when that really hit me was when I encountered another person who was also deeply upset and disturbed by her behavior when it was directed at them. This other person actually felt some relief when I shared how YES it can be EXTREME and deeply disturbing. Honestly, when there is a presence that presents as very unstable that can suddenly blow up into a rage, people tend to want to just distance from it or they freeze. I have seen this happen quite a bit in that unfortunately I had to encounter this kind of presence on several occasions. It did not matter how many times I shared my experiences with it either. Often I got responses that CLEARLY showed me the other person did not GET IT. Yet, in order to REALLY understand what it's like a person has to actually see it for themselves. I have seen this individual in a rage and the entire room of individuals ALL FROZE and just stared. Then, the last thing ANY of these people wanted was to do anything that would once again create that very disturbing behavior to happen again. So with that, IF I am the one being RAGED at, then individuals actually want me to go away or get that AWFUL presence to go away somehow.

Actually? I tried very hard to explain how I could not even go and visit either dying parents because this VERY DISTURBED presence was constantly hovering around them. People kept saying to IGNORE it and JUST this or that when they just don't get how HORRIBLE it really is and how QUICKLY this presence can blow up into a horrible rage. I guess most people come to realize how you cannot reason with someone blown up in a rage. Most of the people around this individual either literally walked on eggshells or made attempts to avoid her completely.

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

I myself have had the reaction where I freeze. I understand how uncomfortable that can be. It's just a human reaction when in a situation where you are stunned with not knowing how to react. Often, part of the reason is that the behavior you are encountering may be totally illogical or extreme due to that other person's state of mind. I think that's how your father could be with you in that he tended to exhibit extreme anger or negativity to some normal simple things you failed to do or say that he needed you to do or say.

I have experienced different individuals blowing up and even raging at me or at someone else in front of me where my reaction was to freeze. Actually, one of the questions I have asked my therapists is WHY do people react and say something to ME when it's my older sister that is RAGING and acting badly. I am slowly realizing that it's because she is behaving so badly and I am the calm one and they genuinely don't know WHAT to do with her behavior that is so out of wack and raging. Part of when that really hit me was when I encountered another person who was also deeply upset and disturbed by her behavior when it was directed at them. This other person actually felt some relief when I shared how YES it can be EXTREME and deeply disturbing. Honestly, when there is a presence that presents as very unstable that can suddenly blow up into a rage, people tend to want to just distance from it or they freeze. I have seen this happen quite a bit in that unfortunately I had to encounter this kind of presence on several occasions. It did not matter how many times I shared my experiences with it either. Often I got responses that CLEARLY showed me the other person did not GET IT. Yet, in order to REALLY understand what it's like a person has to actually see it for themselves. I have seen this individual in a rage and the entire room of individuals ALL FROZE and just stared. Then, the last thing ANY of these people wanted was to do anything that would once again create that very disturbing behavior to happen again. So with that, IF I am the one being RAGED at, then individuals actually want me to go away or get that AWFUL presence to go away somehow.

Actually? I tried very hard to explain how I could not even go and visit either dying parents because this VERY DISTURBED presence was constantly hovering around them. People kept saying to IGNORE it and JUST this or that when they just don't get how HORRIBLE it really is and how QUICKLY this presence can blow up into a horrible rage. I guess most people come to realize how you cannot reason with someone blown up in a rage. Most of the people around this individual either literally walked on eggshells or made attempts to avoid her completely.

So, freezing up is a relatively normal response to someone having an explosive rage fit? I suppose I've never looked around to see other people's reactions during these situations.

In retrospect, yeah, I guess it is pretty common. It's kind of interesting, because I've seen how people react to someone with an explosive temper - passive, quiet, nervous, shaking a bit - and also how they recalled the situation after they were safely away from the angry person - loudly declaring that so-and-so was lucky they weren't at work or they would've kicked their ***. I probably should pay more attention to things like this.

And you're right that there isn't much you can do in these situations anyway (short of choking them out). Someone in that state of mind can't be reasoned with, and any attempt to do so is going to piss them off even more. You just have to let them burn themselves out. I also kind of understand the people who were upset by your sister. They wanted badly to reason with her, but couldn't, so they tried with you instead, hoping you'd be able to talk her down because you understood her better.

Or maybe talking someone down from a rage fit is a skill that can be learned.

[Open Eyes]

Usually when someone is unstable and prone to rages people around them tend to walk on eggshells and try to create distance. I think in the situations I have been in when my older sister is in one of her rages is on an instinctive level people address me because they know they cannot address her. Perhaps on a basic instinctive level people freeze because they know that it's the only thing you can do when someone is in a rage. I think that anyone who has tried to stand up to someone in a rage begins to learn that all that does is make the person rage even more. I have helped children work through rages, but with adults it's a lot harder. Sometimes the size of an adult alone can be a factor.

[eskielover]

Or maybe talking someone down from a rage fit is a skill that can be learned.

Don't think so.....usually when they are in a rage every part of their mind is shut down except for their emotional mind. Getting through to an emotional mind in the middle of rage is basically impossible. (Except maybe using a stun gun to zap them & knock them out & hopefully they will come to a little bit more rational)

Growing up I would only respond to conflict with my parents but was too afraid of sounding stupid like I heard my dad sound way too often so I would never get involved in conversations where conflict existed.

The DBT helped me organize my thoughts & I have had time to read & learn so much more finally by my age so I can finally hold my own in discussions where conflicts come up. I was so busy just surviving my own life until I finally left it that I don't think my own mind was capable of dealing with conflict except to fight with my family.....I just avoided any other conflict situations.

It has been a growing process over the last 12 years that finally started at the age of 54. (It is never too late)

I don't think I need to come out on top. In fact, I think I need to get more comfortable with the possibility of losing. I sometimes get so hung up on the idea that I might do or say something wrong, that I don't do anything.

I now feel that losing is fine as long as I am heard....I don't have to win.....but I also want have thought through my options either way. Like I said above, my silence wasn't about fear of losing it was just a fear of saying something I really didn't know & sounding stupid. I always held onto that statement of "if you don't say anything they don't know what you know or don't know" so mostly I just listened. Now I get involved.

[eskielover]

Usually when someone is unstable and prone to rages people around them tend to walk on eggshells and try to create distance.

Not everyone who rages is unstable. Some of us were pushed to the point of rage when rationally trying to deal with someone was impossible. There are different causes for rage.

In my case if he walked on egg shells (which I doubt he was wise enough to do) he caused the situation in the first place whether he grasped that fact or not.

Not everything falls into generalized situations & I am sure most things don't because the mind is so complex in it's reactions. Just because we have had one experience ourself doesn't define it as being what it is like for everyone

[Open Eyes]

Not everyone who rages is unstable. Some of us were pushed to the point of rage when rationally trying to deal with someone was impossible. There are different causes for rage.

Yes, this is true and I do know how utterly frustrating it can be when dealing with a person who doesn't listen.

Originally Posted by eskielover

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="4"]
Don't think so.....usually when they are in a rage every part of their mind is shut down except for their emotional mind. Getting through to an emotional mind in the middle of rage is basically impossible.

Challenge accepted.

I know I'm going to jinx myself if I write this, but I haven't felt any anxiety since posting about it. Either simply talking about it helped a lot more than I thought it would, or it just hasn't happened. I was kind of hoping it would happen again soon so that it was fresh in my mind and I could explain it better, and maybe analyze the situation that caused it, but no luck.

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Perhaps on a basic instinctive level people freeze because they know that it's the only thing you can do when someone is in a rage. I think that anyone who has tried to stand up to someone in a rage begins to learn that all that does is make the person rage even more. I have helped children work through rages, but with adults it's a lot harder. Sometimes the size of an adult alone can be a factor.

I honestly don't think it's the only thing you can do. Before an angry customer explodes in a rage fit, I can often see tension building up to the explosion. Some of my co-workers are able to take control of the mood, diffuse the situation before they explode, and angry customers simply fall in line. It's like a conversational sleight of hand. Of course, it doesn't always work, and it's usually only the most experienced dealers who are able to do this well. But I know it can be done.

Then again, now that I think about it, I'm comparing myself to people who've been in this business for decades and have learned a thing or twenty.

[TunedOut]

This conversation is very interesting. In my jobs where I have dealt with customers (especially call centers), when I have had to deal with someone who has out of control rage, it could sometimes really throw me off my game (it would effect my concentration). I would feel like I shouldn't hang up or transfer them to where ever (we had days in my job working for the telephone, cable and internet company where the wait times were in excess of 30 minutes which made customers unhappy before you even picked up) like some of my coworkers did. Back then, I made the mistake of trying to reason with them and be honest about what I had the power to really do for them. I am afraid that I heard some of my colleages make promises to a raging customer that they could not keep. They made that promise to get rid of them. Some ragers are unable to control themselves but others use it as a tactic to get what they want. The ones that thought they got what they wanted were likely going to be more angry when they called back because they didn't get what they were promised.....

[Open Eyes]

To the point, then. I'm starting to think that these incidences could explain the anxiety I have either when I need to confront someone or when I've made a mistake. I work in a high-stress environment (casino) where I regularly have to deal with angry drunks and vast sums of money. As you can imagine, freezing up is a terrible response when an angry drunk is screaming obscenities at you and your fellow co-workers and there's $10K at stake.

That is a challenge in that you are dealing with strangers that are drunk and some people can be mean drunks too. And often in a casino you are dealing with individuals that are addicted to gambling too. Both those habits/addictions consume a person where nothing else matters to them. People have gambled to the point of losing their homes, everything and suddenly their families are subjected to facing how they are homeless and deep in debt. The worst that can happen is a big win too because that just rewards the addiction keeping the person involved with something that becomes their world and life. Casinos don't care about any of that, this is how they make money and typically lots of it as the odds are in their favor, much of what you have been learning already. The house doesn't care about the people, just keeping the games going and the money flowing and getting the ten grand that's at stake and then there is the high rollers that gamble away incredible sums like it's nothing to them.

Rage tends to be about "control" and how someone can blow up when they feel they are losing control.

[eskielover]

we had days in my job working for the telephone, cable and internet company where the wait times were in excess of 30 minutes which made customers unhappy before you even picked up

lol....this reminds me of all the YEARS I was having to deal with the IRS (thanks to my idiot now X-Husband). Wait time was minimum 1 hour with no call back place option to select. Because I live in the country, dropped calls was the NORM after waiting 55 minutes Then when I finally did get a real HUMAN to talk to they didn't grasp the problem I was having or how to help or even direct me to someone who could help. Though many times I did receive outstanding help. But I can understand how by the time one gets to finally talk they have run through their mind all the negative scenarios. Tough job.

I honestly don't think it's the only thing you can do. Before an angry customer explodes in a rage fit, I can often see tension building up to the explosion. Some of my co-workers are able to take control of the mood, diffuse the situation before they explode, and angry customers simply fall in line. It's like a conversational sleight of hand. Of course, it doesn't always work, and it's usually only the most experienced dealers who are able to do this well. But I know it can be done.

It is a shame that they don't provide some basic training strategies that these more experienced dealers have learned over the years of practice. Observing what they do & how they do it is a good learning tool too. Since you are aware & have the desire to learn.....that is the first step. I am sure you will become successful at doing this.

Originally Posted by TunedOut

it could sometimes really throw me off my game (it would effect my concentration). ... Back then, I made the mistake of trying to reason with them and be honest about what I had the power to really do for them. I am afraid that I heard some of my colleages make promises to a raging customer that they could not keep. They made that promise to get rid of them. Some ragers are unable to control themselves but others use it as a tactic to get what they want. The ones that thought they got what they wanted were likely going to be more angry when they called back because they didn't get what they were promised.....

Yeah, throwing you off your game is the worst of it. We get a lot of people who'll do it intentionally so they can try to get some sort of compensation or cheat while you're disoriented.

You say that your honesty was a mistake, but it doesn't seem like making empty promises helped your co-workers that much either. Personally, I think it's better to stand your ground. Caving just reenforces the behavior, especially if they do get what they want.

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Rage tends to be about "control" and how someone can blow up when they feel they are losing control.

Relating that to gambling, I've noticed that the ragers are often the ones who derive their self-esteem from their gambling habits. I have no idea why anyone would want to tie their self-esteem to a game of chance, especially one where they're disadvantaged, but I don't have a gambling problem.

They're not after money. They're chasing a feeling.

Originally Posted by eskielover

It is a shame that they don't provide some basic training strategies that these more experienced dealers have learned over the years of practice. Observing what they do & how they do it is a good learning tool too. Since you are aware & have the desire to learn.....that is the first step. I am sure you will become successful at doing this.

We have a "customer service training," but it's garbage, cookie-cutter drivel that was probably copy-pasted from some "10 steps to becoming a better worker drone" Buzzfeed article. Yeah, it would be great to get some actual training from people who have actually worked in the industry.

I will definitely try to learn from my better co-workers, and maybe report back what I've learned if it's anything insightful.