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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 12:46 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Alive99 View Post
You accidentally mentioned something here that I found really helpful. You said that you don't get that close with friends. And yeah, I think I didn't have an actually quality friendship so I don't really know when these "friends" would get too close to me. Especially the "best friend". Like they would ask for too much help and stuff. And then would eventually show their worst sides and stuff like that, yeah.

I don't understand how that happened. I do know when it was when she pulled me into her issues with drama. But I don't understand how it could even happen in the first place. I always explained it away to myself with "she was in a really really bad place so she just tried to find help wherever she could". But with your note, it just doesn't seem to make sense anymore, this explanation. Yeah, I don't know what this was.



As for your disengaging: yeah it sounds like a good direction ...maybe the problem with marriage is seeing each other too much so it's hard to hide the worst sides, especially with lockdown lol

But I hope your husband is also trying to do the disengaging. Or it would be pretty imbalanced eventually.
Yes, I think a friend relationship is less intimate than a committed romantic one. I keep more boundaries with friends, so I don’t overstep and lose the friendship. Friends like you because you have something in common, like to do things together, give each other moral support but not to the point of it becoming overbearing, friends don’t want to get too caught up in your drama, friends will be generous but do not want to feel taken advantage of like they are being used. There is a give and take with friendship- each much make effort to maintain the connection.

Romantic relationships go farther. This may be my own faulty thinking, where I am overstepping boundaries and becoming codependent. Maybe I shouldn’t think of them as much more than I do of platonic friends and we’d get along better.

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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 05:07 PM
  #62
Thank you for this thread. Negative interactions bother me long after the fact, and that's because I cannot properly separate and "disengage". Like right now. I had a negative interaction with someone at work, and it rocked me for the entire day. I wish I knew how to disentangle myself from the emotional aftermath, but I got seriously triggered by this interaction and it's stuck with me for hours. ARGH. It's frustrating. I am frustrated with myself mostly, but also with this person for pissing me off.

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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 06:30 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
Yes, I think a friend relationship is less intimate than a committed romantic one. I keep more boundaries with friends, so I don’t overstep and lose the friendship. Friends like you because you have something in common, like to do things together, give each other moral support but not to the point of it becoming overbearing, friends don’t want to get too caught up in your drama, friends will be generous but do not want to feel taken advantage of like they are being used. There is a give and take with friendship- each much make effort to maintain the connection.

Yes. This is what I did not understand back then, when she pulled me into that relationship too deep. I understood only later that with friendship, it's like, you want to protect the good feelings, the connection and that does require boundaries. ...On BOTH sides. That is what I did not understand. Because I protected the good feelings on my part, but I completely missed the idea about what it feels like receiving the same back. That is what I did not understand or know about at all.



Quote:
Romantic relationships go farther. This may be my own faulty thinking, where I am overstepping boundaries and becoming codependent. Maybe I shouldn’t think of them as much more than I do of platonic friends and we’d get along better.
And here too....I want to protect the good feelings in a romantic relationship too. I do think it must be harder once you are married (or just living together long-term). I don't think it's just you.

I read (part of, didn't finish it yet) this pretty good book on marriage....I don't remember if I mentioned it on here. The New Rules of Marriage by Terrence Real. It talks about boundaries and a lot more. Trust me I've looked through a lot of these books on marriage already but I liked this one the most so far because of the idea that a 21st century marriage is just not the same as before.
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 06:40 PM
  #64
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Thank you for this thread. Negative interactions bother me long after the fact, and that's because I cannot properly separate and "disengage". Like right now. I had a negative interaction with someone at work, and it rocked me for the entire day. I wish I knew how to disentangle myself from the emotional aftermath, but I got seriously triggered by this interaction and it's stuck with me for hours. ARGH. It's frustrating. I am frustrated with myself mostly, but also with this person for pissing me off.

Yeah, this is what my life became in a sense for a while. So I understand you.


I originally - years ago - just detached, detached so strongly I lost energy for some things and started having less and less of a life.

It was disengagement but too extreme.

Because I did not deal with the feelings, they just went away buried somewhere deep down


Anyway... once I stopped being so detached, it all came out. A mess.... Then I would be like, pulled down for days after each negative interaction with people. Even people I don't know much at all.

(This was already after cPTSD which didn't help either)

And yes, this idea of disengaging, this thread, and some talk on the emotional support chat on the chat of this forum helped, etc.



The idea I took up from all the talks on the chat and this forum thread was that I really just have to recognise fast enough that an interaction is too negative, not constructive, perhaps even toxic or heading towards toxic too much. Too much "bad drama" overall. If the interaction was to continue, it would just lead NOWHERE. Just looking at it like, not worth it. Keeping my person out of it with that.

And then upon the recognition of that, instantly stop engaging, not discuss/argue/engage with the person, and then you internally disengage too. You don't have to physically walk away if you are able to control it internally but that can be an option too yeah.


It truly did help. Now I'm not pulled down for days. Or not so strongly that I can't keep doing other stuff.... Like it may be there in the background until I fully processed it. Sometimes I can instantly process it even.

I haven't been completely freed from taking in the negative yet, but I have been able to process & push it away faster. Not getting pulled into the "bubble" of the thing.


The processing entails understanding what actually happened, with all the facts, a realistic enough assessment, not too biased towards too positive/hopeful or too negative/paranoid either.

And then I see how it doesn't say anything about me, whatever negative thing happened. Even the idea of that becomes absurd.

So it's easy to disengage from it at that point. A very objective view like I am viewing it as an outsider/3rd party from the outside.


I do sometimes also push back without going overboard with the anger, this is to avoid internalising too much of the negative. Again, not being too angry or too nice either. And that pushback is the line drawn in the sand. After that, the interaction does not continue. I.e. I walk away (physically or not but I disengage).

Yah I think it all requires practice and I am still practicing mself too. Lol, years of work!!
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 06:53 PM
  #65
I think to take it to the ultimate level it would be aiming to be constructive always with the disengaging. If you say you are done with the convo, and why you are done, and then you disengage, you can say this in a constructive way, which can just be like, paying attention to what works best for everyone. For that tho you really have to accept humans as they are lol. I don't know if I can always do this advanced level lol. But at least not getting into the bad drama, that's already good in my eyes
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 07:12 PM
  #66
It feels like every time I get into the bad drama, I wish I had just accepted that person’s behavior in the first place and not reacted negatively. For now, I need to walk away because my emotions are too intense with one person’s consistent triggers. But, I’d like to work myself up to not removing myself and simply accepting them as they are and learning to react positively instead of negatively (which triggers PTSD in me…so this is no easy feat!)

I’d have saved myself so much pain if I could have only just done this in the first place.

I think I’ll pretend I’m the super easy-going hippie girl muppet, lol. It’s all cool, man!
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 11:10 PM
  #67
Well I did it , I broke up with my alcoholic addict boyfriend. I don’t ever want to go through another break up again. This is the third one in sixteen years. I mean that’s not bad , I guess. Well fourth if you count that I broke up with my ex fiancé twice. Is that a lot?

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Default Jun 19, 2021 at 07:06 AM
  #68
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Well I did it , I broke up with my alcoholic addict boyfriend. I don’t ever want to go through another break up again. This is the third one in sixteen years. I mean that’s not bad , I guess. Well fourth if you count that I broke up with my ex fiancé twice. Is that a lot?

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No, it’s not a lot. Think of it as you ended three bad relationships instead of staying in them and being unhappy. Wishing you the best moving forward!

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Default Jun 19, 2021 at 10:02 AM
  #69
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No, it’s not a lot. Think of it as you ended three bad relationships instead of staying in them and being unhappy. Wishing you the best moving forward!

Thanks I wouldn’t say the last was a bad relationship however the alcohol and drugs came first for my ex boyfriend, so I had to leave.

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Default Jun 21, 2021 at 05:18 PM
  #70
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It feels like every time I get into the bad drama, I wish I had just accepted that person’s behavior in the first place and not reacted negatively. For now, I need to walk away because my emotions are too intense with one person’s consistent triggers. But, I’d like to work myself up to not removing myself and simply accepting them as they are and learning to react positively instead of negatively (which triggers PTSD in me…so this is no easy feat!)

I’d have saved myself so much pain if I could have only just done this in the first place.

I think I’ll pretend I’m the super easy-going hippie girl muppet, lol. It’s all cool, man!

Really nice and ambitious goal. If you can react in a neutral way (rather than negative), I think that's already a big goal. Maybe try to start with that first. And yes....PTSD is a b**ch, it's trivial for you probably, but yeah, it takes practice to separate the past (emotion) from the present (situation). I wish you good luck with all this.
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Default Jun 21, 2021 at 10:15 PM
  #71
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Really nice and ambitious goal. If you can react in a neutral way (rather than negative), I think that's already a big goal. Maybe try to start with that first. And yes....PTSD is a b**ch, it's trivial for you probably, but yeah, it takes practice to separate the past (emotion) from the present (situation). I wish you good luck with all this.
I’m practicing exercises from the DBT Handbook. It is to not have negative judgments and to respond with “I feel” statements. It says ‘DBT is not to help you endure an abusive relationship. If you are in one, get out.’ But I am using these techniques to try to make the best of an incompatible relationship.

He triggers me to PTSD. I am being incredibly strong to have to be the bigger person and make the best of a bad situation. My situation is not that of a disordered person whose concerned family has to try to get along with them and I need to learn skills to maintain relationships. It is I am showing signs of a disorder after severe stress from ongoing having to deal with extremely dysfunctional people closest to me (mainly only my h over intimacy).

I have an opportunity to leave next week for a couple weeks without him, just my son and I again in another state where my other two sons live. I think I don’t want him to come (he wants to come). We’ve been talking about me getting a break with the therapist who says it’s a good idea and I really want to make that happen. It is with much resistance from him because he doesn’t want it. I hope I can find the strength to get away. It will, at least, give me some peace for two weeks.

I am wishy washy and go back and forth by the hour. I can’t get away or stay and be happy.

I bet I just wrote a lot of judgmental comments here right now (sorry DBT)

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Default Jun 22, 2021 at 02:14 PM
  #72
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I’m practicing exercises from the DBT Handbook. It is to not have negative judgments and to respond with “I feel” statements. It says ‘DBT is not to help you endure an abusive relationship. If you are in one, get out.’ But I am using these techniques to try to make the best of an incompatible relationship.

He triggers me to PTSD. I am being incredibly strong to have to be the bigger person and make the best of a bad situation. My situation is not that of a disordered person whose concerned family has to try to get along with them and I need to learn skills to maintain relationships. It is I am showing signs of a disorder after severe stress from ongoing having to deal with extremely dysfunctional people closest to me (mainly only my h over intimacy).

I have an opportunity to leave next week for a couple weeks without him, just my son and I again in another state where my other two sons live. I think I don’t want him to come (he wants to come). We’ve been talking about me getting a break with the therapist who says it’s a good idea and I really want to make that happen. It is with much resistance from him because he doesn’t want it. I hope I can find the strength to get away. It will, at least, give me some peace for two weeks.

I am wishy washy and go back and forth by the hour. I can’t get away or stay and be happy.

I bet I just wrote a lot of judgmental comments here right now (sorry DBT)

Ohh I didn't notice any judgmental comments. I do agree, if you feel the need to get the break, then do get one.
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Default Jun 22, 2021 at 04:31 PM
  #73
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I’m practicing exercises from the DBT Handbook. It is to not have negative judgments and to respond with “I feel” statements. It says ‘DBT is not to help you endure an abusive relationship. If you are in one, get out.’ But I am using these techniques to try to make the best of an incompatible relationship.

He triggers me to PTSD. I am being incredibly strong to have to be the bigger person and make the best of a bad situation. My situation is not that of a disordered person whose concerned family has to try to get along with them and I need to learn skills to maintain relationships. It is I am showing signs of a disorder after severe stress from ongoing having to deal with extremely dysfunctional people closest to me (mainly only my h over intimacy).

I have an opportunity to leave next week for a couple weeks without him, just my son and I again in another state where my other two sons live. I think I don’t want him to come (he wants to come). We’ve been talking about me getting a break with the therapist who says it’s a good idea and I really want to make that happen. It is with much resistance from him because he doesn’t want it. I hope I can find the strength to get away. It will, at least, give me some peace for two weeks.

I am wishy washy and go back and forth by the hour. I can’t get away or stay and be happy.

I bet I just wrote a lot of judgmental comments here right now (sorry DBT)
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Ohh I didn't notice any judgmental comments. I do agree, if you feel the need to get the break, then do get one.
I’m trying to follow the DBT book. It says to write down all the judgmental thoughts and comments we make good and bad and then to not be judgmental about them, let them disappear. Oh boy do I have far to go!

I had another bad night and day today in spite of trying with this new book. I think it triggered me worse, but Rome wasn’t built in a day. I’ll keep at it.

My h triggers me. He can’t stop. I am coping with it in unhealthy ways. I am trying my hardest to stop, but fell into it yet again.

Now the depression has lifted as it usually does.

I want to make a disparaging remark about myself here now, but I won’t because the book says I shouldn’t.

‘tools to overcome habitual, negative judgments about yourself and others.
3. Emotion regulation skills help you to recognize more clearly what you feel and then to observe each emotion without getting overwhelmed by it. The goal is to modulate your feelings without behaving in reactive, destructive ways.“

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Default Jun 22, 2021 at 10:53 PM
  #74
I disengaged from my boyfriend’s drinking and smoking and drugging which then allowed me to disengage from him although I miss the physical closeness as he was very affectionate . We were together a year and he would give me flowers every month. He had previous girlfriends who he could just keep his drug and alcohol use away from and I have my own substance abuse issues so I had to leave the relationship as it triggered a relapse. I’m really trying to live and let live. He told me he has no desire to get sober. I did flee . He lives with his mom which also triggers me and I would fight with him about that. I am free of all that stress now. He was very loving and caring and nurturing.
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Default Jun 23, 2021 at 10:51 AM
  #75
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I disengaged from my boyfriend’s drinking and smoking and drugging which then allowed me to disengage from him although I miss the physical closeness as he was very affectionate . We were together a year and he would give me flowers every month. He had previous girlfriends who he could just keep his drug and alcohol use away from and I have my own substance abuse issues so I had to leave the relationship as it triggered a relapse. I’m really trying to live and let live. He told me he has no desire to get sober. I did flee . He lives with his mom which also triggers me and I would fight with him about that. I am free of all that stress now. He was very loving and caring and nurturing.
Good move for you in the right direction. Isn’t one of the 12 steps to break ties with people who partake in the addiction? You now know you can’t be with someone who uses or you will fall back in. If you want to find a new relationship, look for someone who can lift you up instead of pull you down.

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Default Jun 23, 2021 at 12:22 PM
  #76
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Good move for you in the right direction. Isn’t one of the 12 steps to break ties with people who partake in the addiction? You now know you can’t be with someone who uses or you will fall back in. If you want to find a new relationship, look for someone who can lift you up instead of pull you down.

I’m not familiar with that step. I haven’t gotten as far as addiction, I’ve stopped short at substance abuse. I will wait 6 months before getting in another one. It’s not just the addiction, it’s the untreated depression as well. Thank you for replying.

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Default Jun 24, 2021 at 06:11 AM
  #77
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I’m trying to follow the DBT book. It says to write down all the judgmental thoughts and comments we make good and bad and then to not be judgmental about them, let them disappear. Oh boy do I have far to go!

Hm... well there is such a thing, as making a judgment about a situation or about an action of a person vs making a judgment about someone's whole person. The latter is what I think doesn't lead anywhere if you want to have a long term close relationship with the other person. Are you talking about the latter?


Also, truly my personal opinion only, but if you (general you) end a relationship with someone, and judge them in the latter way, it can be a problem if it's a strong judgment if you (general you) feel compelled to apply it to other people in the future.

This is why I like this thread on disengagement because for me disengagement includes not dwelling in such judgments. Even if they have truth to them, I just don't need to stay with them all day, just simply assess if I need to accept the situation, change the situation or leave it, and then act based on that.

Maybe what's a problem is "too quick" judgments, too, if these are judgments that are strong and unbalanced, out of touch with reality. While no action is taken to accept, change or leave the situation/problem



(Extreme example) I would still judge the person of a serial killer, I cannot be that far in detachment as to be accepting of people like that and cannot detach the action from the person there. I cannot, because unless such a person is totally fallen apart mentally (which they are not), they made the decision to violate rights and boundaries of other people in the strongest way possible (ie taking their lives just so they can enjoy themselves) - and they repeatedly made it.


But a lot of the time yes, personal judgments about other people are too quickly made and are too unbalanced. Or maybe they are even realistic - and are more like about their action patterns and able to take in positives too about the person - but we get stuck, not disengage and not take action to change/leave the situation.

Those are the cases where I see a problem with judging.

I do not want to talk about my cPTSD here but the person that caused it before "best friend" added to it....that person tried to exercise extreme detachment and non-involvement nearly like the idea of not judging a serial killer even. But of course they exercised it when they felt like it, not consistently, though even then it would've been strange to me - but then maybe I'd just think the person is aiming to become a saint. (Which most of us cannot be!)

And that lack of consistency, I would say, it ends up hurting people more than not even trying to practice the extreme nonjudgmentalness. More than if someone just doesn't "try" to be a "saint".



Where I'm trying to get with this is just that it's totally OK if you can't get rid of all "bad/judgmental thoughts" of yours right away. And that it's totally OK if you can't be a "saint" with it. It's totally OK to be a normal human with "mistakes" like that.


And what really matters anyway is the words and actions (together) that you say/do. We all can have all kinds of thoughts and it's totally fine if we don't believe in them and thus don't act on them (probably this is what the DBT book is saying too) and even if we act on it sometimes, it can be just be being a normal human!

And I know what the fight is like trying to not believe in certain thoughts.





Quote:
I had another bad night and day today in spite of trying with this new book. I think it triggered me worse, but Rome wasn’t built in a day. I’ll keep at it.

My h triggers me. He can’t stop. I am coping with it in unhealthy ways. I am trying my hardest to stop, but fell into it yet again.

Now the depression has lifted as it usually does.
I'm glad it lifted. But I really hope you find a solution soon where you don't have to live like this long term.



Quote:
I want to make a disparaging remark about myself here now, but I won’t because the book says I shouldn’t.
Now that's where I agree with the book, not believing in disparaging thoughts about ourselves!



Quote:
‘tools to overcome habitual, negative judgments about yourself and others.
3. Emotion regulation skills help you to recognize more clearly what you feel and then to observe each emotion without getting overwhelmed by it. The goal is to modulate your feelings without behaving in reactive, destructive ways.“
I just think in a situation that keeps you stressed out a lot, it may not be possible to practice all this.

Maybe if you two separate for like a year. That's just an example length of time and I'm not trying to tell you what to do.



And this is truly just my thought and I don't know you two really, so, maybe accept that your husband truly cannot do intimacy like you'd like it - maybe a reason to separate permanently, yeah. Like maybe he's just that person and maybe he's not even "evil" or otherwise something to make a strong judgment of, just simply not able to be intimate with you. Even if he wanted to. And it would not be because of you, it would be just how he is. If that's true then that really sucks and is very sad that he's not able to do it. But it may be the reality. But all that's your decision to make, I am just giving my outsider thoughts and I think I won't repeat them, sorry if there was something here that I already said before.

Last edited by Alive99; Jun 24, 2021 at 06:50 AM..
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Default Jun 24, 2021 at 06:35 AM
  #78
EDIT: I'll add this separately because I feel it's important enough. So where I said maybe your husband is just like this. I will say I do not know him at all and so there can be many ways I could imagine how he can't be intimate with you. In some cases it would be simply a different style of intimacy that doesn't speak your love language at all (and he's not able to pick up on this, either, etc etc), and in some cases it's more willful, lack of willingness where he could actually do it.... and that sounds more unhealthy to me on his end. And it's not for me to judge which case it is, but my point is that in both cases it may be that you can't change that situation and accepting it to live with it seems too stressful too because we are just humans and can't sacrifice everything of ourselves for others, and then the only option left is leaving the situation (separation - a very strong version of disengagement, so to speak....). But that's again really just my thoughts and you may think very differently, I'm just concerned because of how stressful it seems for you.
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