I could use your emotional support right now

I didn't know that about office gossip - that you can sue and that it's against the law, that's interesting. I agree, gossip does create a negative and hostile work environment.

That is a really difficult place to be in: having been talked about, overhearing, bringing it up, their response...no wonder you're worried about being fired. You have my sympathy over this, really.

I like all of your ideas regarding other jobs, including the possibility of sticking with paralegal, if that works for you.

I totally agree that any job can be toxic. I'll have to take your word that many places are. Though I'm beginning to think that myself. I will say I worked in a very toxic library, years ago. But I've known people who work in libraries and love it. And no two libraries are the same. I say look into it. Try out all your ideas, if you want.

I want to also rephrase what I said about other people being stupid. I have personally just found some situations with certain coworkers and group dynamics to be challenging and upsetting. I think I have some trigger points that are set to "high," unfortunately. Maybe you can relate? If not, apologies, and feel free to ignore this part. Gossiping in the work place type stuff is a type of thing that would bother me too and at the very least, put me on alert with the person doing the gossiping. In terms of problem-solving... I've got more of the focus on myself with stuff like this, because...I can't change anyone else.

You brought up people skills and while I'm sure you have people skills(!!!) it doesn't hurt to learn more. I think learning people skills, or even just examining our own behavior and part in an interaction can be helpful. Creating boundaries in our interactions and regulating our emotions around difficult interactions...maybe that's part of people skills too.

Keep us updated about your situation if you want.

I hope you get the grant for your kitten.

I don't know you, but I'm surprised if lots of people feel contempt for you here. What can we do better to help you feel welcome, dear one?

I have a suggestion, being a long time old lady here. How about breaking up your concerns and putting them in different areas? I've found that folks feel uncomfortable with long threads and tend not to read or post on them. For instance, post about job concerns in a job area, post about a sick pet in the pets section, etc. Believe me we pet owners are very sympathetic! Then you're likely to find people who can relate more to what happening to you. And will read your posts and get busy responding. (Of course, remember that none of us are professionals--just people who also have problems and are trying to help each other!)

It sounds like folks are working hard to give you their advice, though. We do care. I'm sorry it doesn't seem like we don't sometimes.

Librarians can actually work in variety of fields, not just traditional libraries (knowledge managers, law librarians, researchers in variety of venues etc), but you need masters degree in Library studies (or library sciences) and informational technology (or similar).

If you work in the library but aren’t a qualified librarian, you will be an assistant with a low salary. You’d be back to square one. Low pay. The only way to survive on low pay is to always work two jobs and it could get rough.

What are your degrees in and could those lead to more gainful employment? Not saying to get rich but be able to pay your bills. Is there a career center in the university you graduated from? Could they help? Narrow down your career options? There might be something out there that you maybe don’t know about. Some jobs just aren’t advertised widely

MLIS is a very valuable degree with a growing number of applications. I also recommend looking up jobs on https://inalj.com/ to see what you can qualify for now and what you would be able to qualify for if you get an MLIS.

Yes it is. That’s my daughter’s degree and she’s been in a field for awhile now. There are very many angles to this profession especially now with vast amount of information and ways to store, research and manage data/media etc.

Thank you. It sucks to be in my space but I'm the common denominator so I put myself here by reacting to what I overheard.

I definitely fail on the people skills scale despite adapting myself to other people's moods (thanks, codependency coping skills for that maladaptive mindset).

Plus, I think I fail because most people are "internal" processors where they think and reflect before they speak. Not me. I am an external processor. I have to talk and react aloud first (react then think). So, when I work with internal processors then I get labeled as difficult and overreactive, which is how I present but not how I actually feel or believe that i am. It's just that I can't internally process (think before I speak). I have tried so many times but that goes against my very nature. People who are internal processors accuse me of being too high strung, which is just because my brain moves a a gazillion miles a minute. I can't stop thinking. Doctors label it as a deficit - OCD, ADHD. I view it as a skill, a gift, that my brain's processor is mega fast.

I can relate to you 100% about your perceived high trigger points. Are they high for you or just for other people who are internal processors? Think about it. Nothing wrong with internal or external processors, except when both work or socialize together sometimes misunderstandings, miscommunications, assumptions, etc. happen.

I agree. We can't change others. We can only change ourselves.

I had a meeting with both attorneys and one of the founding partners whom I approached. At first, they tried to protect the female attorney but I used those talking points appropriately from that hostile work environment blog I posted on the 1st page of my thread and that was the line I set, the boundary I set down for them. Either respect that line and boundary of mine, or I walk out the door.

The female attorney FINALLY apologized but it took her 35 minutes (I glanced at my watch LOL) to cough up an apology (can't tell if it was disingenuous or authentic). The other male attorney recovered and the founding partner recovered. We agreed that they need to respect the way I communicate which happens to be different from the way they do. Once we all got on the same page, the room de-escalated. Do I think I'm out of hot water here? Hell no. I think they're keeping a close eye on me (and me on them).

I'm planning my employment escape daily with job applications, have phone interviews before or after work hours and a timeline (be at a new job by spring 2024). Of course, they could fire me in another 30 days at my 60 day review. Pfft.

I think I'm going to dive into my leadership books from y masters degree and reread the sections about interpersonal boundaries etc and different work styles and different communication styles to refresh the tools I can use in conversation with the two attorneys to help them communicate with me better, and I with them.

I will keep everyone updated. I'm overwhelmed by your posts b/c it sometimes feels really lonely here.

I hope I get the grant for my kitten too.

I have been around PC a long time (reincarnated with my current username). I think I rub people the wrong way. I can be direct and practical and sometimes come across like I'm giving directions and being judgmental. Meanwhile, my goal is to be helpful. But it comes out or is misconstrued the wrong way.

Plus I get easily triggered by some topics and sometimes will "bark" at members when I feel cornered. Not a mature communication choice, but I'm working on pausing before I post.

I like your suggested strategy. I'm going to try that. Thank you! I'm glad people care. I care about others here too.

I wanted to get a masters in library science. I still may but online. The brick and mortar college here wouldn't let me in. They rejected my application. I'll speak to my neighbor who became a librarian without his MLIS.

I love the angles available job-wise with library science. I really do. I need to actively pursue jobs in that field that may cross with the legal field too.

Congrats to your daughter from me. Hope she is happy and doing well.

MAJOR UPDATE:

Today at the law firm, I went to knock on the female attorney's door to ask her a question. Low and behold, true to her nature, she was GOSSPING ABOUT ME TO THE LAW CLERK (a 25 year old nice guy who has a girlfriend). I didn't linger outside her door this time. I just walked away, rolling my eyes.

Just like that idiom states, "a leopard never changes its spots." This woman is a total gossip. A real mean girl. A real toxic Tammy.

WTAF. How many faces does this female attorney have, anyway? 10? 1,000? She makes Sally Field's portrayal of the woman with MPD Sybil seem sane. JFC!!!

Now she's back here checking in on me and the other legal assistant. Smiling and laughing. Telling me she's really happy with my progress. What a bald faced liar she is!!

Of course, the law clerk is a nice guy who stays out of office politics, so I won't involve him with my side of things. I'm just flaberghasted that this 30-something female attorney thinks its acceptable to gossip behind closed doors about others she works with who support her as her legal assistant.

What do I do?!?!

I’m sorry you’re experiencing this, something similar happened to me, I ended up leaving, I’m not saying that’s what you should do although it was the right thing for me (I had other issues too). It’s rough to overhear yourself being discussed in less than complimentary tones.

Sorry I can’t offer anything more useful than my empathy at this time. Except you strike me as smart and I wonder if this attorney finds you threatening in some way. Just a thought.

Dang. It’s tough.

To all honesty everyone gossips. But why are they gossiping so others can hear? Why at work? Go out and gossip. Or at home, Especially if they gossip about people who assist them/so ultimately their subordinates.

I don’t know what you could do but perhaps speak to someone above you that you keep hearing attorneys gossip. Maybe they need to be reminded that they create unsafe work environments for others

What happened to you, if I make ask? Your experience may help widen my perspective of my situation, @Discombobulated if you're comfortable sharing?

I do feel like her gossipy-mean-girl behavior puts me in a precarious spot. If I leave because of her, that means, I'm enabling her behavior.

If I stay, and ignore her behavior, that sends her and everyone she gossips to about me, the message that her behavior is what she already knows it to be: immature and how toxic work environments are created.

Usually, supervisors who create toxic work environments, because that's their demented view of what 'leadership' encompasses...for them.

*fear based leadership (people fall into 2 categories; friend or foe to the fear based leader; they create nonsensical, unobtainable, arbitrary goals with their top-down leadership style, and use a punishment and reward system, 'i.e. the carrot and the stick, takes credit for other people's work and gets away with it b/c they are office bullies)
*unhealthy competition for resources (budget, deadlines, roles on projects, credit for successful outcomes on projects, etc.)
*intentional mistrust (gaslighting, undermining, blaming, taking credit for their subordinates work, not recognizing their subordinates accomplishments to the subordinates)

I am applying for other jobs. Don't get me wrong. I want a backup in case she fires me (my state has 'at will' employment so no one is 'safe' from being terminated for any reason whatsoever). I also know that even if I get a new job, there will be toxic employees at THAT place too. So, if I run away from this law firm because two of their attorneys are assholes, what does that say about my leadership skills and my rights as an employee?

We all deserve to work in a stress free workplace. AND, we deserve to call out the players who create a hostile work environment (there are legal statutes that protect some employees but I will have to research that more b/c I don't know if 'hourly' employees are included in those statutes).


It's very tought, @divine1966.

Yes. You are correct. Every office has that gossiper. I did speak to a higher up - one of the partners. At first, she promised to bring in the female attorney and her supervisor (another partner) to de-escalate the situation (come up with a plan moving forward).

Apparently, they talked her out of it. Because when I met with her, there was the male and female attorney (my two bosses) and all three of them went into 'fight or flight mode' and told me, "we don't want to rehash the situation' which I interpreted as them trying to gaslight me and intimidate me into shutting up.

They followed up with the recommendations from my 30-day review, again, dismissing my complaint entirely about the female attorney's behavior creating a hostile work environment for me, focusing on the fact that I stood outside her door eavesdropping instead of what I actually heard her telling her manager about me.

They concluded the meeting with some shaming, "let's keep this to ourselves. No one else needs to know about it."

Literally, a toxic meeting because when I interrupted them to assert myself, they accused me of being dramatic. Typical gaslighting response to being held accountable. It's not dramatic to assert boundaries with toxic people. It's a healthy response.

Then, what...two weeks later, I catch the female attorney gossiping with the law clerk about me, regaling the whole situation to him. I didn't even linger outside her door. I just walked away and said nothing to no one.

So, this situation has shown me the law firm's leadership style and how little they value their employees' well-being.

I deserve to have the following from my work environment, where I spend the majority of my day:

*psychological safety
*not be bullied or gossiped about
*feel relaxed (toxic work places increase stress levels)

All the partners need to do to create a healthy work environment at my law firm:

*address psychological safety issues - ask questions to identify the root causes of toxic behavior (i.e. the female attorney gossiping about me to everyone)

*Create a growth-mindset work culture vs. the standard fixed work culture

*listen to complaints with openness and a lack of judgment (don't be easily swayed by other leaders' attitudes or opinions)

Signs of a toxic workplace include the following:

How Managers Can Change Toxic Workplaces And Build Effective Teams

Hi @Motts if you want to briefly enable PMs I can message my experience to you, I’m not comfortable writing it publicly.

Briefly I never did complain or tackle this woman, I think if I’d really wanted to keep this job I might’ve done that but in the end I just wanted out.

I've been at this legal assistant job for 2 months now. Before me, their previous legal assistants all were fired or quit and I was ALONE in my role until they hired the second legal assistant. I get the feeling that they have very unrealistic expectations. They "expect" me to train the other legal assistant, when I haven't even been at my job that long. I feel like I'm being taken advantage of, and sabotaged by their unrealistic expectations. It doesn't matter how much I communicate, or if I ask them the same question. They just want me to "get it."

Every other legal assistant, legal secretary job pays the same hourly rate, much to my chagrin. I can't get a real paralegal job unless I start as a legal assistant.

@Motts I know you cannot show your current temp job on LinkedIn, but you have past experience. Are you OPEN TO WORK on LinkedIn? Are you findable on Indeed, Glassdoor, other resume databases, are you only looking via actively applying? A lot of modern job search is passive, but you need to be out there to be found by recruiters. You need to be everywhere. Are you?