I tried a few different antidepressants in the past, but gave up because of the side effects. I've been considering getting back on them for months, but it's been impossible due to a variety of factors. I tried St John's Wort off and on for the past six months or so, and I think it did help even me out slightly though certainly not enough.

Well, four days ago I decided to buy some SAM-E after reading a bit about it on the internet and seeing a lot of positive responses to it. Found some made by Nature Made at Walgreens (or maybe it was CVS...I mix them up) on sale with a 2 for 1 discount. The stuff isn't cheap, but not horrible with the 2 for 1 deal.

Long story short, I'm excited. This is my fourth day at 400mg, and I feel alive for the first time in 7+ years. I've done nothing different, my life is still in the same shape it was in last week, but today I feel so much better that it's making me remember how it felt to be a little kid back in the days before everything went wrong.

Obviously too soon to know if it will work long-term, but I am the most negative, pessimistic person I've ever known, and I'm feeling a sense of hope right now that the prescription pills, therapy, exercise, attempts at positive thinking, etc never gave me. I will be absolutely crushed if this feeling wears off, but I don't even want to think about that possibility right now because this is the first day in years and years and years that I have felt any better than a 2 out of 10.

Oddly enough, I had a dream last night that there was a really huge and vicious grey dog with giant teeth angry and snarling at me and trying to attack, but somebody had it on a leash and was holding it back, and it had a muzzle over it's mouth and I was laughing at it because it couldn't get to me.

Anyway, whether or not this lasts, whether or not it's placebo, it has been amazing to have one day of my life back from the snarling beast.

[nbritton]

With such a dramatic response, I would consider reducing the dosage because manic switching is a possibility when taking S-Adenosyl Methionine. Together with cysteine, methionine is one of two sulfur-containing proteinogenic amino acids. Its derivative S-adenosyl methionine (SAM) serves as a methyl donor. Methionine is an intermediate in the biosynthesis of cysteine, carnitine, taurine, lecithin, phosphatidylcholine, and other phospholipids.

As you apparently respond well to methionine, you may want to try N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC), in theory it could just be that your body is having trouble producing enough cysteine, as cysteine supply is a rate limiting factor in glutathione production and other critical reactions. NAC is much cheaper than SAM, about $4 for a month supply. Swanson's is the cheapest source I've found: Swanson Premium NAC N-Acetyl Cysteine 600 mg 100 Caps - Swanson Health Products

Another methionine intermediate is taurine, taurine mimics glycine at the NMDA receptor glycine site and can bind with it. If this is the way SAM is helping you, sarcosine (N-Methyl Glycine), or even D-Serine, should work better then SAM in you. I would encourage you to work through the methionine end products so you can narrow in on what exactly is working for you, however I'm already thinking it's cysteine and that you'll see the most bang for your buck with NAC.

Another alternative, which has a mode of action that's entirely different from SAM and NAC, is pregnenolone and vitamin D3. Both of these compounds act as neurosteroids, pregnenolone can be purchased from amazon.com. Vitamin D3 can be purchased anywhere, but it need to be at least 2,000 I.U. and you have to take a loading dose to see quick results, as it takes upwards of five months to reach peak serum concentrations due to it's long half-life.

Originally Posted by OPRMC

I tried a few different antidepressants in the past, but gave up because of the side effects. I've been considering getting back on them for months, but it's been impossible due to a variety of factors. I tried St John's Wort off and on for the past six months or so, and I think it did help even me out slightly though certainly not enough.

Well, four days ago I decided to buy some SAM-E after reading a bit about it on the internet and seeing a lot of positive responses to it. Found some made by Nature Made at Walgreens (or maybe it was CVS...I mix them up) on sale with a 2 for 1 discount. The stuff isn't cheap, but not horrible with the 2 for 1 deal.

Long story short, I'm excited. This is my fourth day at 400mg, and I feel alive for the first time in 7+ years. I've done nothing different, my life is still in the same shape it was in last week, but today I feel so much better that it's making me remember how it felt to be a little kid back in the days before everything went wrong.

Obviously too soon to know if it will work long-term, but I am the most negative, pessimistic person I've ever known, and I'm feeling a sense of hope right now that the prescription pills, therapy, exercise, attempts at positive thinking, etc never gave me. I will be absolutely crushed if this feeling wears off, but I don't even want to think about that possibility right now because this is the first day in years and years and years that I have felt any better than a 2 out of 10.

Oddly enough, I had a dream last night that there was a really huge and vicious grey dog with giant teeth angry and snarling at me and trying to attack, but somebody had it on a leash and was holding it back, and it had a muzzle over it's mouth and I was laughing at it because it couldn't get to me.

Anyway, whether or not this lasts, whether or not it's placebo, it has been amazing to have one day of my life back from the snarling beast.

[wa(o)rrior]

hi, i can relate to a similar experience when i was first given an anti-depressant. it was paroxetine 25mg. it took effect after putting me to sleep for 18 hours in a 24 hour period for almost 5 days. it was such a great feeling i had never experienced in my life. i was feeling so exited that i was unstoppable. i used to look forward to each and every day willing to try and conquer everything that came my way. the best thing was i cared a damn when things didn't work out.

i did a mistake on stopping it all too sudden that it wrecked havoc in my life. i had to struggle for 2 years after which i went back to the same doc and got the same pills and it worked again. i've been on this for the past 6 years and it has definitely shaped my life. i know it has side effects which could affect in the long run, but i am willing to take risk instead of being in vegetative state without the meds.

enjoy the feeling even though its induced by the meds. we deserve that happiness

Originally Posted by wa(o)rrior

hi, i can relate to a similar experience when i was first given an anti-depressant. it was paroxetine 25mg. it took effect after putting me to sleep for 18 hours in a 24 hour period for almost 5 days. it was such a great feeling i had never experienced in my life. i was feeling so exited that i was unstoppable. i used to look forward to each and every day willing to try and conquer everything that came my way. the best thing was i cared a damn when things didn't work out.

i did a mistake on stopping it all too sudden that it wrecked havoc in my life. i had to struggle for 2 years after which i went back to the same doc and got the same pills and it worked again. i've been on this for the past 6 years and it has definitely shaped my life. i know it has side effects which could affect in the long run, but i am willing to take risk instead of being in vegetative state without the meds.

enjoy the feeling even though its induced by the meds. we deserve that happiness

I tried three types several years ago (Celexa, Zoloft, and an older MAOI I can't remember the name of) and although they helped my mood, each one made me feel like sleeping 16 hours a day and made me irritable among other side effects. Today I woke up after 7-8 hours of sleep feeling like I'd only had 1-2, but after a half hour I started feeling more awake, and my energy increased throughout the day and has been leveling off the past few hours and now I just feel calm.

I didn't actually accomplish anything today, but if the feeling I had today could be my new normal, I feel like my life could be completely turned around in six months. I just hope it continues to work and I can have my life back. My teens weren't great, and I feel like my twenties were ten lost years that I'll never be able to get back. It would be nice to get to feel alive again in my 30's.

Day five was not as good as day four, but I remain optimistic. I managed to pick up and organize a bunch of boxes and random clutter that had been sitting around since the holidays and take care of a few other things that I'd been putting off for the past month. Didn't necessarily feel good today like I did yesterday, but at least there was some energy and motivation.

My mind has felt like it's been tied up in a million little knots for longer than I can remember, and every thought or solution seems to cause a thousand new problems or reasons why the idea will fail. Today, I've felt like some of those knots are coming undone and I'm able to think a little more clearly without immediately giving up.

I'm sure part of the change has been due to feeling relief that the holidays are over, but I think the SAM-E is working some magic. The winter months are always the worst for me, so feeling even a little hope at this time of year is unusual to me. Just hope this continues!

[nbritton]

Originally Posted by OPRMC

.The winter months are always the worst for me, so feeling even a little hope at this time of year is unusual to me. Just hope this continues!

Has your doctor ever checked your vitamin D3 status? If that were me above, I would be taking vitamin D3 8,000 I.U. daily for one month, and then 4,000 I.U. every day after that. Then after three months I would have my 25(OH)D (a/k/a calcifediol) and 1,25(OH)D (a/k/a calcitriol) levels checked... oral vitamin D3 has a half-life of 21 days, and calcitriol takes additional time for the kidney to create, three months is about how long it will take to reach steady state.

Originally Posted by nbritton

Has your doctor ever checked your vitamin D3 status? If that were me above, I would be taking vitamin D3 8,000 I.U. daily for one month, and then 4,000 I.U. every day after that. Then after three months I would have my 25(OH)D (a/k/a calcifediol) and 1,25(OH)D (a/k/a calcitriol) levels checked... oral vitamin D3 has a half-life of 21 days, and calcitriol takes additional time for the kidney to create, three months is about how long it will take to reach steady state.

Hi, I've tried large amounts of D3 like you mentioned above in the past and noticed no difference. Had a long overdue physical a month ago, and my D levels were were normal. Thyroid was checked recently as well and was on the low side of normal. Only thing that wasn't in the normal range was cholesterol which wasn't surprising since shoving food in my face has been one of the main ways I've dealt with depression in the last few years since I stopped drinking so much.

[nbritton]

Originally Posted by OPRMC

Hi, I've tried large amounts of D3 like you mentioned above in the past and noticed no difference. Had a long overdue physical a month ago, and my D levels were were normal. Thyroid was checked recently as well and was on the low side of normal. Only thing that wasn't in the normal range was cholesterol which wasn't surprising since shoving food in my face has been one of the main ways I've dealt with depression in the last few years since I stopped drinking so much.

Unfortunately for us there is major debate about what is normal for vitamin D3 levels. The old school of thought is normal is what is measured in normal people under normal conditions. The new school of thought is that our sun is the rate limiting factor in the generation of vitamin D3, and that regardless of what is normally observed in people, these levels are chronically always on the low side. Doctors don't have time to check every value on a lab report, instead the lab simply flags values that fall outside of the observed ranges. So if the lab is operating off the old standard, your vitamin D status could come back as normal despite it actually being insufficient.

The Vitamin D Council recommends that level should be between 40 - 80 ng/mL, their vitamin D3 25(OH)D range guidelines are as follows (listed in both ng/ml and nmol/l):

0 - 30 ng/ml: Deficient.
31 - 39 ng/ml: Insufficient.
40 - 80 ng/ml: Sufficient.
>150 ng/ml: Toxic.

0 - 75 nmol/l: Deficient.
76 - 99 nmol/l: Insufficient.
100 - 200 nmol/l: Sufficient.
>375 nmol/l: Toxic.

What do you mean when you say your thyroid was on the low side of normal? Are you referring to your TSH level? Low TSH is nearly always a good thing, generally the lower it is the better. It's a round about way of measuring if your getting enough iodine in your diet. High TSH is an indicator of iodine deficiency, or some other general defect in thyroid hormone production.

Originally Posted by nbritton

What do you mean when you say your thyroid was on the low side of normal? Are you referring to your TSH level? Low TSH is nearly always a good thing, generally the lower it is the better. It's a round about way of measuring if your getting enough iodine in your diet. High TSH is an indicator of iodine deficiency, or some other general defect in thyroid hormone production.

Oops...meant to say high side of normal. The number was within what the lab considered to be a normal range, but near the upper end of that spectrum.

If anybody is keeping score, I'm not nearly as optimistic about SAM-E now as I was a few days ago. I believe today is day eight, and most of the information I've read has stated that the effects of SAM-E should start to become apparent pretty quickly...within a week or so. I do notice more energy and a little less negativity, but only day four was a reminder of what life used to feel like many years ago. On the plus side, no noticeable side-effects yet. May still end up working out for me in the end, but the world appearing in full color on day four was a bit of a false alarm.

I believe today was day 9. I'm up to 800mg/day (seems to be the most common daily dosage I'm seeing around the internet). Nothing has matched the great feeling of day 4 yet, but I do feel a little more even or balanced than I did before starting the SAM-E, and my energy seems to be improving. Insomnia seems no better or worse than without SAM-E. I've gotten a few things done in the past few days that I had been putting off for months. In a way, the SAM-E is making me feel like I've had a couple extra cups of coffee, but without caffeine jitteriness...just picking me up enough that getting something done doesn't feel like a lost cause. So far, zero effect on my social anxiety, but I don't think it's supposed to be helpful for that. There's a phone call to a stranger I've been needing to make for 4 weeks that I just can't bring myself to make (I usually email/text anytime I have to contact a person I don't already know well, but that won't work in this case).

I've felt pretty calm overall, but the interesting thing I've noticed is that my mind which has been really tied up in knots lately totally lost, confused, and basically playing chess against itself, has been working double or triple-time the past few days trying to solve my problems and come up with a way to fix the mess my life is stuck in. It's strange because it's kind of exhausting and I can't really stop it, but I'm also feeling like some of the knots are getting untangled in the process. Who knows...maybe in six months, my life will make sense again if this keeps up.

At any rate, I'm noticing similarities to SSRI's without the horrible side-effects. I hope I continue to notice a change...

[nbritton]

Originally Posted by OPRMC

At any rate, I'm noticing similarities to SSRI's without the horrible side-effects. I hope I continue to notice a change...

Now that you mention it, Ginkgo Biloba has antidepressant qualities. Quoting Wikipedia...

"These extracts are shown to exhibit reversible, nonselective monoamine oxidase inhibition, as well as inhibition of reuptake at the serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine transporters, with all but the norepinephrine reuptake inhibition fading in chronic exposure. Ginkgo extract has in addition been found to act as a selective 5-HT1A receptor agonist in vivo."

After your done experimenting and reporting on SAM-e, could you try and reported on Pregnenolone, Ginkgo Biloba, or N-Acetyl-Cysteine? Thanks for documenting your experience on SAM-e.

Originally Posted by nbritton

Now that you mention it, Ginkgo Biloba has antidepressant qualities. Quoting Wikipedia...

"These extracts are shown to exhibit reversible, nonselective monoamine oxidase inhibition, as well as inhibition of reuptake at the serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine transporters, with all but the norepinephrine reuptake inhibition fading in chronic exposure. Ginkgo extract has in addition been found to act as a selective 5-HT1A receptor agonist in vivo."

After your done experimenting and reporting on SAM-e, could you try and reported on Pregnenolone, Ginkgo Biloba, or N-Acetyl-Cysteine? Thanks for documenting your experience on SAM-e.

I tried Ginkgo several years ago and didn't notice any effects whatsoever. I will likely get some St. John's Wort to add to the SAM-E since SJW has seemed helpful in the past and is fairly inexpensive...hoping that the two combined will be even better than the SAM-E alone.

I really think the SAM-E is working. Today felt like a day when I ordinarily would've been really down. I still feel a little bit of the sinking ship feeling, but it's not nearly as intense or disruptive as it usually has been on a day like this in the past.

I bought some fish oil today to start taking. I've tried it many times in the past with no noticeable improvements, but maybe it will help out the SAM-E a little or vice versa.