Self-Esteem Question

I've been seeing a counsellor over issues relating to work and relationships.

Today while talking to her I was telling her that I've been having a terrible time with dating - i.e. getting rejected by just about every woman I approach, and finding the very few who will accept me are women I end up having to reject because they have serious problems (eg. drug abuse that wasn't apparent on the first date) that are deal-breakers. Or getting put in the friendzone by some of the women I interact with.

I told her that my lack of success is leaving me convinced that women see me as exceedingly unattractive and not worth bothering with. She tried to reassure me by telling me that I didn't appear to her to be unattractive.

Then she tried to tell me that my success with women might improve if my self-esteem was a lot better. I told her that I didn't start out in life with poor self-esteem, being treated badly by others for a long time has brought me to the state I'm in now.

So what we have here is a classic chicken-or-egg question: does self-esteem come from inside or outside? Does improving one's self-esteem really do anything for you if people really and truly can't get past the way you look, or the way that you are in general?

I believe self-esteem may be partly inherent but more or less overwhelmingly influenced by external factors. I can completely understand that poor treatment and reactions from people around you either cause or exacerbate pre-existing low self-esteem. And simultaneously, a horrible self-esteem can also give others the impression you do not value yourself and hence they will also value you less. It seems to be an unrelenting cycle.

Of course if you were exceedingly attractive and garnered lots of positive attention your entire life you would be more likely to have higher self-esteem, which subsequently would encourage others to treat you well too. In light of this, I find I respect those who may not be particularly or conventionally attractive, and yet they still have the personality and confidence of one you would think would not suit them - and they become very attractive. Even completely unattractive people can be very well liked and given positive feedback, but I suppose they do not get that 'free ride' that very attractive people will get.

Personally, I definitely believe my low self-esteem has stemmed from being treated poorly when I was younger, as I was kind of.. unkempt and ugly. One thing I did was lose even just a bit of weight a couple of years ago and not only did it make me more confident but others treated me better; it may be a due to either my own heightened confidence, improved looks, or a combination of both, but maybe it doesn't really matter. There's no reason not to try to improve your outward presentation with simple things however, and see if that makes any difference (it likely will).

I also believe we're born with a measure of self-esteem. Like any human being, we need to be encouraged, acknowledged and nurtured to help sustain that healthy esteem. Consistently poor treatment from others can erode it. As a child, when I shared my larger-than-life dreams with my parents, they laughed, shared it with other adults--in my presence--and everyone had a good laugh, again and again. They probably thought I was being childishly cute, and were enjoying it. I, on the other hand, thought I was being ridiculed. Couple that with a parent constantly quarreling with you about how unsatisfactory your grades are (although you are an A-student) and eventually, you're left believing you're not good enough. Sadly, that belief reflects in your approach to life and contributes to the seemingly endless cycle of self-doubt and timidity.

People like to be around lively, confident people who are nicely put together and generally assertive and positive. I think if we don't demostrate those qualities in our posture and language then people move on.

I can relate having low self esteem is not great just try to stay positive.

I think as adults it is both an inside job and external. It is important to find people who are understanding, won't judge and will validate you. That expect you unconditionally. Those people are out there.

Then there is the inside job. Learning to trust people. Self validation. Journaling. Meditation. Patting yourself on the back for accomplishing one small thing. Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. Challenging your negative thoughts as not being true. etc...

You reject women who have drug problems. Is it possible that women who rejected you did so because of your mental health problems, if they knew about them? It would be worth verifying, before you decide that you aren't attractive enough.

I believe at the beginning of your life, self esteem is based highly on feedback from your surroundings. Getting praised, attention, and etc really either help build it or destroy it. As we grow older and become more aware of what others think of us it becomes a precarious situation since just a few peers who bully you can tip the scale but a lot of people still have great confidence in themselves and that's where the inside part comes to play. I don't think you can ever really achieve true self-worth without thinking about it yourself and deciding you are worth it in your own mind.

As for whether you should work on self worth first or fake it until you make it, I will say that people tend to be more attracted to individuals who look well put together. People who look sad, tired, and etc often just get passed by because they blend into the crowd and don't have much presence. Even by the way you walk and stand, if it demands attention and respect, you will get it. But if you can't convince your mind to accept yourself in a positive way, you'll always crave outside support more than your own ideas--which is a terrible way to be. The best is when you are just looking for positive affirmations from the people you care about. I'm firmly in the camp of: you have to move them together. Humans by nature are social creatures (on a varying scale but we still crave acceptance) so by working on your thoughts and then getting positive feedback you can begin to see the changes for yourself

And last but not least, there will always be rude and terrible people that can't look past what you look like but to be honest those people aren't worth your time anyway. If they can't understand you, chances are you won't be able to understand them either :P

Best of luck!

If you have poor self-esteem like me (and I believe that it's roots are in bad parenting), then what other people say makes no difference and never will.
HOWEVER, I have found that I am able to do things that I, myself, am proud of.

I am the only one that I can believe.