[vonmoxie]

What do you think it is? Unwelcome as it does tend to be, what is the ultimate function of depression?

This is something I have pondered my whole life, both from the perspective of experiencing depression from my earliest days, and from the perspective of having gotten through major depressive episodes. The body is remarkably well-designed towards self-healing, even with all we put it through, and it stands to reason that the brain too, can find its way through at least some of our modern abuse of it.

One of the things I've found to be the most helpful for me is to ensure I don't demonize the traits of depression. That only seems to slow down the process for me, leaving me with feelings of conflict which just pile further on to an already tall mountain of complications that looks impossible to climb.

Like when people say, "those feelings aren't real -- that's the disease lying to you".. to me this is a little like when I have PMS and people want to discount my feelings as being nothing but a product of my hormones. It's not that the feelings aren't real; they're highlighted front and center, but they're as real as can be, and clearly need to be dealt with that they've arisen with such intensity at that point. I don't think that demonizing them (and demonizing ourselves in the process) enables us to deal with them. At least for me, I feel like I need to deal with whatever's there for me, however hard, and that's where my power lies, and I have to accept that I'll need to accept a timeline for acclimation that is beyond my conscious desire and intention.

I'm sure it can operate differently for others, and I mean no disrespect by examining and sharing how it works for me. Among other things, I have a major depressive disorder, and when it's come around it's stayed for at least a solid 2 or 3 years each time. On no occasion over the course of decades did I find tools that could rush the episode to end sooner, and I don't think that's in error. I think that when it's been there, it's been there for a reason, and one that could not be avoided. I'd certainly rather that had not been the case.

I do wonder if others use acceptance in a manner similar to me, in that the only thing I've found to work for me is to accept in the moment that there's a reason for an episode's presence in my life, and then let it run its course. Whatever has spurred on each of my episodes, it seems to me that my being ill-equipped to manage effects of my life at a given time has been the primary factor for my shutting down, for a major episode occurring, and that as counterproductive as that episode can seem and can even specifically be in some ways, it's there to give me a chance to genuinely regroup, at a base level. The psyche self-inducing a sabbatical.

Anybody else think about it this way?

[ManOfConstantSorrow]

I have read that depression may have had an evolutionary significance Depression's Evolutionary Roots - Scientific American I is an argument that I like.

I have found depression is different for everyone. You experience it and you live through it. For some it is a coping mechanism of shutting down. Emotionally you have to process what is weighing you down. And once you sort through it then it tends to lift. For others it is a chemical imbalance in the brain. I find for myself it just comes, no rhyme or reason. I just let it come and i accept it as it is. I do not try to figure it out or get hard on myself. I just do what i need to do. Nice music, better surroundings, friends, etc. Whatever i feel i need to do i do it and it goes away. Mostly i like to reflect on poetry or reading something uplifting, i find that this does help. tc

[vonmoxie]

Originally Posted by ManOfConstantSorrow

I have read that depression may have had an evolutionary significance Depression's Evolutionary Roots - Scientific American I is an argument that I like.

WOW! That article is completely aligned with what I've long thought and felt about the experience of depression, except with the added benefit of actual scientific basis and evidence..! Thank you so much for sharing it, Man.

[EnglishDave]

Originally Posted by ManOfConstantSorrow

I have read that depression may have had an evolutionary significance Depression's Evolutionary Roots - Scientific American I is an argument that I like.

This article's points sums me up, especially my having analytical thought processes. Taking no joy from physical stimulation of any kind is a given. I found the whole article insightful.

Maybe I will live long enough to see breakthrough treatments.

Dave.

[Clara22]

Hi
Thanks a lot for your post. I use acceptance not to blame myself for the effects of depression. On the other hand, I acknowledge that some ideations are due to depression. By getting some distance from these ideations ("it is depression speaking" etc.) I regain control

[EnglishDave]

With regard to vonmoxie's Post about acceptance:

Having suffered with a Depressive Personality Disorder since childhood, swinging from Depressed to Severely Depressed due to external and physical circumstances, like emotional neglect and physical pain/disabilities, I have come to view my acceptance of my condition as resignation.

I have jumped through hoops, been Hospitalised, taken the meds (still do - Mirtazapine), and tried Psychologists and Therapists despite my introvert nature. I have been pulled back from over the Edge and talked down off it. There has been no noticable improvement from any treatment, which is why I show interest in new research. Maybe there is a Magic Bullet coming.

In the meantime I am sorry to say I accept that I am resigned to live at some level of Depression. I do laugh, I 'watch' (double vision from brain lesion in pons) tv comedies and cartoons much more than most as a form of escape. The laughter and pleasure dies quickly. I Meditated to great effect up until a few months ago, pain now blocks my ability to achieve clarity, but it used to strengthen my mind and help me cope.

Sorry, I began rambling, I do not usually share.

Dave.

[lima01]

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

What do you think it is? Unwelcome as it does tend to be, what is the ultimate function of depression?

This is something I have pondered my whole life, both from the perspective of experiencing depression from my earliest days, and from the perspective of having gotten through major depressive episodes. The body is remarkably well-designed towards self-healing, even with all we put it through, and it stands to reason that the brain too, can find its way through at least some of our modern abuse of it.

One of the things I've found to be the most helpful for me is to ensure I don't demonize the traits of depression. That only seems to slow down the process for me, leaving me with feelings of conflict which just pile further on to an already tall mountain of complications that looks impossible to climb.

Like when people say, "those feelings aren't real -- that's the disease lying to you".. to me this is a little like when I have PMS and people want to discount my feelings as being nothing but a product of my hormones. It's not that the feelings aren't real; they're highlighted front and center, but they're as real as can be, and clearly need to be dealt with that they've arisen with such intensity at that point. I don't think that demonizing them (and demonizing ourselves in the process) enables us to deal with them. At least for me, I feel like I need to deal with whatever's there for me, however hard, and that's where my power lies, and I have to accept that I'll need to accept a timeline for acclimation that is beyond my conscious desire and intention.

I'm sure it can operate differently for others, and I mean no disrespect by examining and sharing how it works for me. Among other things, I have a major depressive disorder, and when it's come around it's stayed for at least a solid 2 or 3 years each time. On no occasion over the course of decades did I find tools that could rush the episode to end sooner, and I don't think that's in error. I think that when it's been there, it's been there for a reason, and one that could not be avoided. I'd certainly rather that had not been the case.

I do wonder if others use acceptance in a manner similar to me, in that the only thing I've found to work for me is to accept in the moment that there's a reason for an episode's presence in my life, and then let it run its course. Whatever has spurred on each of my episodes, it seems to me that my being ill-equipped to manage effects of my life at a given time has been the primary factor for my shutting down, for a major episode occurring, and that as counterproductive as that episode can seem and can even specifically be in some ways, it's there to give me a chance to genuinely regroup, at a base level. The psyche self-inducing a sabbatical.

Anybody else think about it this way?

You are describing Claire weekes view points on your condition . She was very famous for her work . View the you tube videos of her and her cures ,
Just type her name into you tube , she has a very charismatic way about her without all this Freud stuff . I have her books , she makes a lot of sense .

/

[vonmoxie]

There are certainly some tricky construction concerns between the building of healthy acceptance and that of complacency, are there not? (I feel like there's a lovely cartoon metaphor in there somewhere. Castles in the sand.) I find myself every day needing to check in with my decisions to see if they are coming from a place of wisdom or from one of retreat, to see what process they are serving, so that while I hold myself responsible for those decisions I can also be at peace with them instead of feeling like I'm just giving in. I suppose I am especially wary of my thoughts coming from a place of criticism without consideration though, because I was brought up in an environment where everything I did was wrong always, just by virtue of having done them, so that inasmuch as my inner voice still carries some of the timbre of my parents' abuse I really have to fight the impulse to make myself wrong in the same way.

Some reading I'd done on the idea of radical acceptance helped bring me to the distinction of acceptance representing the act of simply and sincerely accepting what is, and not necessarily resigning myself to it. That's the kind of acceptance I'm aiming for: one that doesn't judge or necessarily carry complacency with it, but which just enables me to get out of conflict with myself and deal with what's there, however I might.

Mikey too:

[Fuzzybear]

[EnglishDave]

Vonmoxie,

Believe me, I do know the struggle of exactly that negative treatment during childhood. It is a constant battle to address, even though/especially because my parents are both dead.

I admire your determination to resolve your issues with acceptance on your own terms.

Dave.

[DechanDawa]

Radical acceptance came out of Buddhist metaphysics, which asserts that appearance isn't reality...because appearance is ephemeral and ever-changing. Reality is the "is-ness" of things. It is like the concept of water. Water is the "is-ness" but in appearance it can be ice, snow, steam, a raging torrent, a still pond etc. There would be no pressure to make this into that, or that into this. It is more about observing, and just seeing what is. It sounds kind of naive but I think it fits well with all kinds of mental and physical conditions that normally cause so much suffering. It's not really radical. It's...common sense to just accept the basic is-ness of one's self, while realizing it manifests in many different ways. If only we could all do this with ourselves, and others.

[vonmoxie]

^ It is common sense, and yet it’s the hardest thing to do sometimes, is it not?

Funny you mention radical acceptance coming from Buddhist metaphysics, Dechan, because while I often refer to Buddhist teachings as they are among the closest to my spiritual center I've actually found that some proponents of radical acceptance tend to frame their practice in a context with more of a Western religious tone than Buddhist, which doesn't as much speak to me. Perhaps for some it's a more natural default voice, than it is for me. I’m a big believer in “take what you can and leave the rest” when it comes to such practices though; using the stars for all the guidance I can but finding my own true north.

Agree that “radical” acceptance is sort of a misnomer, except in that like many words, we’ve corrupted the meaning of what simple acceptance is and made it into something less helpful; hence to simply accept is indeed radical.

[DechanDawa]

Well, what is Buddhism? Is it a philosophy, a religion, a way of life, rules of conduct? I say it is water.

I love this thread because it reminds me of some of the best years of my life when I practiced a lot of spiritual stuff...not just Buddhism. I need to get back.

It seems impossibly hard to practice radical acceptance when everything feels wrong. I think that's the stress.

About finding your true north...ah, now at that I think the Buddha would smile and nod. One of my favorite things the Buddha supposedly said was, be a light onto yourself, --
and isn't that what you are doing? Very. Much. So.

Inspiring, you are. Love your moving pictures so much, too!

[eeyorestail]

vonmoxie, this book may interest you:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/046502...2BL&ref=plSrch

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UglyDucky]

Originally Posted by ManOfConstantSorrow

I have read that depression may have had an evolutionary significance Depression's Evolutionary Roots - Scientific American I is an argument that I like.

Have you thought of posting this article in 'Interesting Articles' (etc.)? This was extremely helpful for me, even though there wasn't a definitive finding that depression is an adaptation. I come to realizations and solve more questions for myself when I spend time alone thinking when I'm depressed. It would be nice if we depressed persons hear less of, "just pull yourself up and think happy thoughts" and more of, "is there something I can do to help?" or "do you need to be alone?". Thanks a bunch for sharing that article.