[dexter]

I've learned that my new therapist is religious. I was raised Jewish, but I've always considered myself agnostic, until recently when changes in the world have made me decide to declare myself an atheist.

I've been suicidal, and early on he asked me if I was afraid that the afterlife might be worse then the pain of depression. I told him I don't believe in an afterlife. He said he has been researching it and has evidence. I dismissed it and told him I would have a hard time believing that let alone accepting it as a deterrent to suicide.

He's been helping me... I like him, he has a sincere concern for my well being and conveys a true attitude of wanting to help me and belief that he can help me that in turn gave me a little hope. He's also asked if he can pray for me... I do not believe in that but I accept it from friends understanding that that is their belief and their way of showing their care for me.

So far in therapy I've done most of the talking and he has given me some tools to keep me out of immediate suicide. He's been helping but I've been wondering if he will be able to help me with long term help. I find it very easy to talk to him so I'd like to think he can help me.

He brought up the topic of life after death again recently. I made it clear it was not something that would resonate with me and wouldn't want to pursue that avenue of therapy. But I did ask him to send me links if he has, as claimed, scientific research that proves an afterlife.

I want to keep an open mind and if there is some verifiable evidence I wouldn't mind seeing it.

Today I watched the links he sent and they are far from what I expected/was hoping... They are not at all evidence they are just anecdotes from people with near death experiences. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. I had a near death experience when I was young (drowning) and I absolutely do not believe these have anything to do with a true afterlife and everything to so with images that the brain generates in a suffocated state.

But what I did not expect... I was expecting that these links would be in some semblance of scientific setting, instead they are purely religious... in fact strictly Christian, stories of Jesus and redemption... And the first one I clicked on was actually part of the 700 Club and was narrated by Pat Robertson. (Pat Robertson kind of disgusts me and is one of the reasons I decided to declare myself an atheist)

I wish I hadn't been "open minded" and had never asked for these links.

I'm still processing this but wondering if they are shaking my faith (pun intended) in this T.

I have a session with him tomorrow... Do I ask him if he has a plan to help me that doesn't involve religion? Do I just keep going and see if he can help me?

It took several months to find this therapist... to find any therapist... they were painful months of rejection by therapist offices and insurance, I do not want to start that process over again. Is there a chance he will still be able to help me?

He HAS given me some immediate tools to help I'm just not sure where we might be headed from here.

[guiltier65]

I would say give him a chance. He is providing some tools that are bringing relief from the SI. Can you tell him that you are not comfortable with the talk of the afterlife as a deterrent to suicide?

[Rohag]

This is difficult. Perhaps only time will tell if you can develop a positive therapeutic relationship with this therapist. People with widely different perspectives can be helpful to one another.

Ultimately you are paying for therapy, not for proselytization.

[dexter]

Thanks, I do want to give him a chance to help me.

[qwerty68]

Guilt-tripping you into doing something or not doing something doesn't sound like ethical therapy to me. Finding reasons to live rather than reasons not to die seems much more humane and productive, even if you believed what he does. He is helping you already, but his non-scientific approach is a bad position to be putting you in and he should know that. But, he is keeping you upright which is rather important.

Regardless of my religious beliefs, I would have difficulty taking your therapist seriously. Then again, my masters adviser was seriously into conspiracy theories but she was otherwise competent. When she started ranting about chemtrails I would double check the PhD diploma on her wall and then zone off.

I know this is not the same as working with a therapist, but you don't necessarily have to buy everything a therapist tells you for them to be useful. It only becomes a problem if it is causing you more issues and inhibiting the therapy process more than he is helping you.

Tell him to stop talking about it. If he does that is great, if not there is no rule that says you have to ditch him while looking for another therapist if you feel that is necessary.

[dexter]

So I brought it up today in therapy that I didn't care for the religiousl nature of the videos--not to mention that I was raised Jewish and most of the videos talked about being saved by Jesus--and we ended up in an argument of science vs religion. It was a little uncomfortable for me but I didn't want to let it go... I don't think he understands the difference between evidence and anecdotes.

We got back on track afterward but I ended up forgetting to ask him about getting into an IOP program. (I see him again on Wednesday and can hopefully get started on an IOP).

So I think I want to ask him next session... Because I really don't care if he is religious but I do care if I need to be religious in order for him to help me.

One of the reasons I liked him was on our first session... During which I was in very bad shape emotionally... he interviewed me and took my history and before I left he told me he was confident he could help me and that filled me with hope and made me feel better for the first time in months.

So now I need to ask him, I need to know if he still thinks he can help me if I don't believe in god and prayer and afterlife, does he still believe that he can help me?

[qwerty68]

I am sorry you are having to deal with this. It still shocks me that he doesn't seem to understand your valid issue and thinks forcing religious views on someone is good therapy.

I know what it is like to wonder about a therapists motives and ability to help. I am glad that you are proactive about it. I wasn't and it cost me dearly.

I hope your next appointment is more positive and helpful.

[dexter]

Yes I am going to ask him outright at my next appointment (tomorrow) and hopefully put my mind at ease and regain my trust and hope in him or the alternative is start looking for a new T

[eskielover]

Interesting because I believed & do believe in afterlife but it didn't stop me at that time from continually attempting suicide with several very close to successful times. I felt so trapped in the life I was in.

I have since been able to get out of the situation & have grown in my relationship with God, not just religion, but I often wonder if I was still trapped in the situation (bad marriage with no way out) if I still wouldn't attempt to escape the same way being that desperate....I couldn't continue living that way. But I'm not & I know that God provided my escape & I have gained the wisdom NEVER to get back into a situation like that. At the time. It was my knee jerk reaction to the life I was trapped in & what felt like my only solution. Glad I wasn't successful because I love my life on my little 10 acre farm that I had wanted all my life & am finally surrounded by wonderful caring people, something else I never experienced before. If I had been successful I never would have experienced this wonderful life even with the struggle of trying to file for divorce from 2100 miles away.

[JohnCrow]

I feel for you

My therapist keeps extolling the virtues of the Canadian health care system (it is broken and falling apart, I don't care about its initial ideals) and faith

I don't want faith, I don't need faith

I am with Bakunin on this: No gods, no bosses

I may be taking a chance in offering my opinion on this. The title thread really caught my eye. It turned out being what I thought it was.

I am a Christian myself; and I would say that you probably would be better off if you went to another therapist. The one who would be on the same "wavelength" in spiritual matters as you are.

If I were to go to a therapist, I personally would want a Christian one because I feel like I can relate better than a non-Christian one. I will say that there can be Christian ones that would not be very good. I've had some experiences with that.

Though it might be hard for you to make a switch from who you have now if you really like the therapist you are seeing. So, it's up to you. Best wishes to you.

[dexter]

I asked him today: 1) Does he still have the same confidence that he will be able to help me if I am not religious and will not respond to religious or faith based healing ideas? and 2) Does he think it is a sin that I am gay? (I talk about my sexuality a lot in therapy, and it dawned on me that he might disapprove.

A bit later I asked him, because I know he prays for me, he asked me if that was OK a while ago, and I agreed to it, because although I don't believe in it, I accept it as people's way of showing that they care about me... But today I had to ask him, when he prays does he pray that I stop being gay?

To that latter, he does not... He just prays that I will be well. I'm OK with that.

To numbers 1 and 2 he still thinks he can help me and we don't have to talk about religion in any of our sessions again. It is obviously very important to him but not an important element in treating me... So now I have to decide if I trust him and still feel comfortable. I was certainly OK continuing our session after discussing that at the beginning but I'm not 100% sure yet.

In the meantime I am looking for an IOP. If I do that I won't be able to continue with him while I'm there but could pick up with him when I am finished.

It also sounded like he would accept if I decided to look somewhere else. He obviously wants me to stay with him but when we talked about IOP he kept saying when I was done with IOP I could come back to him if I wanted to.

So now my focus is on IOP and I'll decide about T at my leisure. I'm at least OK with continuing sessions with him while I look for IOP.

[dexter]

I stopped by at work I felt a little better but tonight I am a mess again crying and upset about work.

[guiltier65]

I feel rather silly asking this, but what is an IOP?

[qwerty68]

Originally Posted by guiltier65

I feel rather silly asking this, but what is an IOP?

I am fairly certain it is intensive outpatient program. It is an alternative to being an inpatient.

Originally Posted by dexter

I've learned that my new therapist is religious. I was raised Jewish, but I've always considered myself agnostic, until recently when changes in the world have made me decide to declare myself an atheist.

I've been suicidal, and early on he asked me if I was afraid that the afterlife might be worse then the pain of depression. I told him I don't believe in an afterlife. He said he has been researching it and has evidence. I dismissed it and told him I would have a hard time believing that let alone accepting it as a deterrent to suicide.

He's been helping me... I like him, he has a sincere concern for my well being and conveys a true attitude of wanting to help me and belief that he can help me that in turn gave me a little hope. He's also asked if he can pray for me... I do not believe in that but I accept it from friends understanding that that is their belief and their way of showing their care for me.

So far in therapy I've done most of the talking and he has given me some tools to keep me out of immediate suicide. He's been helping but I've been wondering if he will be able to help me with long term help. I find it very easy to talk to him so I'd like to think he can help me.

He brought up the topic of life after death again recently. I made it clear it was not something that would resonate with me and wouldn't want to pursue that avenue of therapy. But I did ask him to send me links if he has, as claimed, scientific research that proves an afterlife.

I want to keep an open mind and if there is some verifiable evidence I wouldn't mind seeing it.

Today I watched the links he sent and they are far from what I expected/was hoping... They are not at all evidence they are just anecdotes from people with near death experiences. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. I had a near death experience when I was young (drowning) and I absolutely do not believe these have anything to do with a true afterlife and everything to so with images that the brain generates in a suffocated state.

But what I did not expect... I was expecting that these links would be in some semblance of scientific setting, instead they are purely religious... in fact strictly Christian, stories of Jesus and redemption... And the first one I clicked on was actually part of the 700 Club and was narrated by Pat Robertson. (Pat Robertson kind of disgusts me and is one of the reasons I decided to declare myself an atheist)

I wish I hadn't been "open minded" and had never asked for these links.

I'm still processing this but wondering if they are shaking my faith (pun intended) in this T.

I have a session with him tomorrow... Do I ask him if he has a plan to help me that doesn't involve religion? Do I just keep going and see if he can help me?

It took several months to find this therapist... to find any therapist... they were painful months of rejection by therapist offices and insurance, I do not want to start that process over again. Is there a chance he will still be able to help me?

He HAS given me some immediate tools to help I'm just not sure where we might be headed from here.

Set boundaries with the therapist. If he has provided "immediate" tools that help you cope ask that he continue. If this 'faith based' therapist is part of a church or non-profit that specifically uses religious guidance to help in your struggles he may continue to suggest this approach and you should expect it. If he is part of a for-profit therapy group find out what the law says about using religion in therapy. If it is a government funded organization he is not allowed to talk about 'specific' religious beliefs such as Christianity etc. unless you ask him to. As a vet the VA cannot use a 'faith-based' method to help me unless I specifically request it. Generally when my needs are religious I will go to the chaplain.

My folks were both preachers and the only solution or help they offered was: "Have you prayed about it".

On my own I have found a vast number of biblical verses that have helped me to a point but Dexter's spirituality is a very personal matter. People interpret all religious text to fit their own narrative.

Use reason and common sense. It's your body and mind. If it doesn't sound right for you it probably isn't.

Regards, M Poirot

[dexter]

Originally Posted by Herculepoirot

Set boundaries with the therapist. If he has provided "immediate" tools that help you cope ask that he continue....

...Use reason and common sense. It's your body and mind. If it doesn't sound right for you it probably isn't.

Regards, M Poirot

Thank you H.P. For the support and the advice. I'm still not sure but willing to give him a chance. I do not get the impression that he will continue with religious talk, but he might have shaken my confidence in him, but I want to see how I feel at future sessions.

[dexter]

Yes... As an alternative to being hospitalized some facilities offer "Partial Hospital" which is like being hospitalized... Similar program except you go home at night, sleep at home, and have your weekends at home...

And then below that is IOP or Intensive Outpatient Program where you would only spend a half day there and not necessarily every day.

I have an assessment interview tomorrow and I would be looking at maybe 3 or 5 days a week from 1:30pm to 4:30pm... including group therapy and individual therapy and a visit with a pdoc several times a week. I am guessing they will start me at 5 days then taper off if I improve.

Sometimes if you are hospitalized they release you into a P.H. or I.O.P. program for several weeks or more to help you transition back.