[MtnTime2896]

Now it's time to confess my sins. Confessions of what soul still remains. I can't reclaim the rest, for it has been lost to shadow. To avidly depict what remains requires a spark long since vanquished. All I can contain and confess are my sins.

I've hurt, cheated and lied. And if memory serves me correctly, there have been many a time when I laughed while other had cried. I knew this to be wrong, either later or at the time, but it carried on. As many went to confession, I sat by the corner store to take in my fill of sin. Of course, there are two well-known types of confession, the holy priest and the wicked bottle. Some keep to one, others enjoy the two equally. Who am I to judge? For I had had a taste of both, neither of which relinquishing me of sin.

Anathema became a well established name at the center of my title. Neither a sinner nor a saint, neither a noble nor a wretch. Out-cast was the only solution to my problem. My problem being me. There's no greater tragedy than to despise oneself. Perhaps there is, but this one remains my great sin. Addicted to re-creating self-image. Too bad it is all in vain.

I stand before this full and empty room, an addict. Addicted to sin and all of its splendor. Addicted to sainthood and all of its torture. Funny how life is said to be the opposite of death. If truth holds out, maybe I could emerge common. For there is no glory as the frequently infrequent pariah. Only filth, squalor and pain. Caged in open air left abandoned by commoners who desire me a different name. Of course, this is my punishment for not quite fitting in. To an outsider's gaze or to my own desire, I lay in punishment for my sins. My people before me, my stance steady on stage, I listen to my echo take hold of the empty hall. And unto myself, I confess.

(Also posted in Creative Corner)

[Clara22]

This is beatiful. Is this true? Or just some part of it? You do not need to answer, if you don't want

[MtnTime2896]

Originally Posted by Clara22

This is beatiful. Is this true? Or just some part of it? You do not need to answer, if you don't want

Thank you. On this site, I'm an open book, so it's all good.

This is very near to my heart and truly how I have felt my entire life. Honestly, this is the first time I've admitted to this insecurity openly, in particular being a pariah of sorts. Granted it's an anonymous platform but I believe it still counts.

If you'd like to ask anything else, you may. I actually enjoy answering questions here, to be honest. I never feel the need to dodge or lie. It's safe here.

[Clara22]

All what you say resounds in me. Please, forgive me for my numerous inquiries even you are open to them. I don't want to be pretentious as I were a therapist here. I am a peer, and as such I am asking you. I am saying all this because I annoy people sometimes.
If you did not believe in god, would you feel the same about your sins?

[MickeyCheeky]

Have you ever thought of becoming a writer?

[MtnTime2896]

Originally Posted by Clara22

All what you say resounds in me. Please, forgive me for my numerous inquiries even you are open to them. I don't want to be pretentious as I were a therapist here. I am a peer, and as such I am asking you. I am saying all this because I annoy people sometimes.
If you did not believe in god, would you feel the same about your sins?

My faith is actually an interesting one. I used to be devote to it. For a couple years I became more agnostic then atheist. At this point, my faith is still wavering. Throughout all of this, I did feel the same towards my sins as they fought with my morality and upbringing. I've come to realize that a part of me will always carry my faith and will always desire atonement for my sins.

Hopefully I made sense there.

[MtnTime2896]

Originally Posted by MickeyCheeky

Have you ever thought of becoming a writer?

Haha, yeah actually. Currently I do it for fun but I may attempt to get published at some point. It's been my only solice for most of my life.

Originally Posted by Só leigheas

Hopefully I made sense there.

Yes, you did! To be honest, I think confession of sins is healthy, like one throws them all into a basket and leave them there. Of course it is more complicated in real life. Confessed sins don't stay in the basket. They pups up now and then like some torture from the past that kicks our conscience. On bad days that make me feel complete idiotic. On better days they smiles to me as they are saying: "Don't regret the past, go on, life has still opportunities"!

[Clara22]

Originally Posted by Só leigheas

My faith is actually an interesting one. I used to be devote to it. For a couple years I became more agnostic then atheist. At this point, my faith is still wavering. Throughout all of this, I did feel the same towards my sins as they fought with my morality and upbringing. I've come to realize that a part of me will always carry my faith and will always desire atonement for my sins.

Hopefully I made sense there.

It makes sense because those ideas have already been introjected and are part of you. But you know that morality reigns over human social behaviors and that these are complex, they cannot be viewed just through the sin glasses. And that morality can be traced in animals other than human beings. I mean, predecessors of morality. I don't want to justify our sins. Just to understand them, the nature of punishment and self-punishment. Sorry to use the reason always. People tell me I intelectualize stuff too much. But it helps, I believe

[MtnTime2896]

Originally Posted by Clara22

It makes sense because those ideas have already been introjected and are part of you. But you know that morality reigns over human social behaviors and that these are complex, they cannot be viewed just through the sin glasses. And that morality can be traced in animals other than human beings. I mean, predecessors of morality. I don't want to justify our sins. Just to understand them, the nature of punishment and self-punishment. Sorry to use the reason always. People tell me I intelectualize stuff too much. But it helps, I believe

I don't think you intelectualize too much. I really find what you're saying fascinating. Morality is a concept I've always enjoyed digging into because it can be so fluid amongst different individuals.

Originally Posted by Clara22

It makes sense because those ideas have already been introjected and are part of you. But you know that morality reigns over human social behaviors and that these are complex, they cannot be viewed just through the sin glasses. And that morality can be traced in animals other than human beings. I mean, predecessors of morality. I don't want to justify our sins. Just to understand them, the nature of punishment and self-punishment. Sorry to use the reason always. People tell me I intelectualize stuff too much. But it helps, I believe

I think that people have to chose for themselves if they want to be lieve in God or not. All people have a moral platform for their feet. From that moral place they choose what is good and what is bad. Even if we agree about what is good and not good, our consciences are formed individually with regard to how strict they are (Freud ). I think that those with a strict conscience will have other problems with their psyche then those with a not so well build conscience. Those with a strict conscience will rather become depressed, while the other type might be easy targets to persuade into doing crime. Their suffering will be about what they did (sitting in prison).

I hope I'm not too intellectual today , but I think this topic is very interesting (to me at least). These two clings of people (of course there are many variants in between) will have to have different treatments to have a better life. The strict ones will have to learn to become less rigid while those on the other cling will have to build a stronger conscience.

I read some place that when people with a strict conscience had had a successful therapy, their anxiety for a cruel god (if they were believers) became changed as well. God became good.

[wiretwister]

I reject the entire idea of sin ... as an insult to one's self ... maybe ... as an insult to your god ... same thing ... as we create our own god ... then you would be "sinning' against yourself ... misguided guilt ... better to be constructive ... the world is sorrowful and always will be ... the truth is to live joyfully in it ... accepting what comes ... the idea of "sin" is a man created idiom to control others ...

I'm a HUGE believer in atonement and penance...

Originally Posted by wiretwister

I reject the entire idea of sin ... as an insult to one's self ... maybe ... as an insult to your god ... same thing ... as we create our own god ... then you would be "sinning' against yourself ... misguided guilt ... better to be constructive ... the world is sorrowful and always will be ... the truth is to live joyfully in it ... accepting what comes ... the idea of "sin" is a man created idiom to control others ...

First of all: Só leigheas has written a poem. He has not started a debate about sin in itself. He has expressed himself about himself and that in a probably good form for him too. This forum does not allow discussions about what is the best or worst religion or if it is better to be without God! On the other hand the term 'moral' and how our morals work; are of help or is hurting us (because we have internalized very strict views on what we can allow ourselves or have too loose morals that don't stop us in time) are interesting because it has something to do with our depressions. From that point of view we can discuss our depressions.

The word 'sin' is a technical term inside at least three religions, Jewish faith, Christendom and Islam. In these religions sin means to offend God. Of course one is in one's full right to say that one don't believe in God. More and more people do that, but one cannot deny the meaning of the word 'sin' inside the frames of these religions. But to say in a forum where depression is the topic, as you did; «the idea of "sin" is a man created idiom to control others ...» is to represent one side of the «belive/believe not» debate. We all have to respect each other as human beings either we have this or that faith, are agnostics or atheists. We are here to help each other with our depressions!

Dr. Clayton E. Tucker-Ladd, a clinical Psychologist who died in 2010 made a selfhelp book online where looking upon one's moral was part of the problem-solving on how to get control over one's depression.

I don't want to hijack Só leigheas' thread, - only want to say that the way our moral is formed might be connected to how we suffer in our depressions. May be we could make a new thread for that?

Chapter 3 in the link to what is still online of Dr. Tucker-Ladd's selfhelp book is the one chapter who puts moral in perspective of self help:

Psychological Self-Help - new - Table of Contents

I wish good for everyone who reads this, whatever belief or nonbelief they might have!

[Clara22]

Thank you for the link!

Originally Posted by Singer47

First of all: Só leigheas has written a poem. He has not started a debate about sin in itself. He has expressed himself about himself and that in a probably good form for him too. This forum does not allow discussions about what is the best or worst religion or if it is better to be without God! On the other hand the term 'moral' and how our morals work; are of help or is hurting us (because we have internalized very strict views on what we can allow ourselves or have too loose morals that don't stop us in time) are interesting because it has something to do with our depressions. From that point of view we can discuss our depressions.

The word 'sin' is a technical term inside at least three religions, Jewish faith, Christendom and Islam. In these religions sin means to offend God. Of course one is in one's full right to say that one don't believe in God. More and more people do that, but one cannot deny the meaning of the word 'sin' inside the frames of these religions. But to say in a forum where depression is the topic, as you did; «the idea of "sin" is a man created idiom to control others ...» is to represent one side of the «belive/believe not» debate. We all have to respect each other as human beings either we have this or that faith, are agnostics or atheists. We are here to help each other with our depressions!

Dr. Clayton E. Tucker-Ladd, a clinical Psychologist who died in 2010 made a selfhelp book online where looking upon one's moral was part of the problem-solving on how to get control over one's depression.

I don't want to hijack Só leigheas' thread, - only want to say that the way our moral is formed might be connected to how we suffer in our depressions. May be we could make a new thread for that?

Chapter 3 in the link to what is still online of Dr. Tucker-Ladd's selfhelp book is the one chapter who puts moral in perspective of self help:

Psychological Self-Help - new - Table of Contents

I wish good for everyone who reads this, whatever belief or nonbelief they might have!

Originally Posted by Só leigheas

My faith is actually an interesting one. I used to be devote to it. For a couple years I became more agnostic then atheist. At this point, my faith is still wavering. Throughout all of this, I did feel the same towards my sins as they fought with my morality and upbringing. I've come to realize that a part of me will always carry my faith and will always desire atonement for my sins.

Hopefully I made sense there.

At my core, I am a very indecisive person and unless I spend time praying and studying, my faith sometimes falters.
I do empathize with what Singer47 says. Our faith is an element of our temperament and character which connects it to our tendencies to become depressed. I respect the points of view of people whether they are faithful, agnostic, atheist, etc but I do like what Dalai Lama said, "Our prime purpose in life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." I have known atheists/agnostics who live as morally as those of us who seek direction from God. When we do foolish things, the results are less than desirable. Faith can help you make better choices and find more peace in your heart and that helps me when I am depressed.

[Clara22]

Originally Posted by Hopingtrying

At my core, I am a very indecisive person and unless I spend time praying and studying, my faith sometimes falters.
I do empathize with what Singer47 says. Our faith is an element of our temperament and character which connects it to our tendencies to become depressed. I respect the points of view of people whether they are faithful, agnostic, atheist, etc but I do like what Dalai Lama said, "Our prime purpose in life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." I have known atheists/agnostics who live as morally as those of us who seek direction from God. When we do foolish things, the results are less than desirable. Faith can help you make better choices and find more peace in your heart and that helps me when I am depressed.

But our religion should not make us to be worse. And that happens, as well

Originally Posted by Clara22

But our religion should not make us to be worse. And that happens, as well

Religion, drugs, government, guns, etc.--it all can be used for both good and evil purposes. Free will unless what we do hurts others....

Originally Posted by Clara22

But our religion should not make us to be worse. And that happens, as well

I don't think it is the religion, but the upbringing. If role models (parents and teachers) are harsh and unloving (even when smiling), the child incorporates a picture of God as someone that will punish the child for minor faults. A part of feeling so little might be to be cruel to others that seem inferior and to be pleasing to those they think are higher in rank then themselves.

The same can happen to a child that grows up in an atheist home. If the parents are caring and warm, the child will probably learn to become likewise. If the parents, on the other hand, are strict and not loving when they give their rules, that might produce children that grows up suffering from such an upbringing and who might be cruel to others (perhaps them they think are underdogs).

Believe me: I have met both good and caring people among Christians, people from other religions and among the atheists and agnostics. BUT I have met nasty people from every one of these groups as well.

I think that who we become to be as grown ups depends on complex factors. If some teenagers take a little boy as their prisoner after school, day after day after day, and threaten him to not tell what has happened to him; it will be a traumatic event either if his parents have a religious faith or not. In the warm and caring home (religious or not) the parents may notice that he doesn't seem to be himself and ask until he burst into tears and tells them. He will be comforted and helped to deal with these traumatic happenings. In the other type of home, the uncaring (religious or not), he will probably not dare to tell, perhaps displace the events and one day become a depressed adult.

Of course this is simplifications, because there are often many factors in a child's life that interplays.

In my opinion, many therapists wrongly teach their patients that it is their religious upbringing that is to blame, and in that way rob the patient from recourses that could benefit her/him in their recovery from depression.

Originally Posted by Hopingtrying

Religion, drugs, government, guns, etc.--it all can be used for both good and evil purposes. Free will unless what we do hurts others....