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Old 06-09-2021, 07:58 AM   #21
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Default Re: Warmup problem - familiar to anyone?

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Originally Posted by Alive99 View Post
But me, I still get pulled down a lot after a couple of good days. Then it takes time to go back up. If I was supposed to do things during such a downtime then of course that piles on stress too. So coming back up of course would take longer too.... Takes time to do all the stuff I got delayed with and of course it adds additional negative feelings on top of the rest (very dysregulated emotions too, I only lately started to be able to see them, I've started trying to deal with them).

Is this issue familiar to you?
Yes. A few years ago I experienced the same thing, but I didn't manage it well. I quit my job because of it.

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But I've restarted... and I instantly notice how I'm not able to do my exercise program (i.e. sports training). Because the stress just went up high. Because I was given a task with a short deadline and that task is of course harder anyway. I don't know what I'll be doing, because I really want to be able to do both work and training!! Thoughts?
In my case, I try to balance it. If I have deadlines for my other job, I really skip the gym. Instead, I go on weekends to make up for it.

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Originally Posted by Alive99 View Post
Reading this, especially the last few lines, is where I realised how peacefully stable the stuff is you are describing. Always knowing that you'll be able to just predictably warmup anyway even if it takes time. Feels like you being in a good environment too, with nice people. That is what helped me realise where my main issue is rightnow. Maybe just the medication though? I'm not on medication other than Xanax "as needed". I considered taking it last night but I fell back asleep okay.
I didn't include the first 4 years of my diagnosis in my story. I quit my job after 2 years because it was too stressful for me. The schedule was more irregular than my teaching job now. I had to work very long hours, especially when I had business trips. Some months after quitting, I had a hypomanic episode. I suddenly decided to go to another country to work there. I was able to start training in one company, but I suddenly fell into depression again. So, I went back to my country, lived with my mom, and dealt with depression for around 6 months. I tried to do some freelance work during that time, but I was basically unemployed.

My doctor changed my medicine at that time, so all those 6 months were spent managing my sleep and overall mood. I think I can relate to that difficult transition from downtime to getting back to a normal routine. It took me several months, so I can't really say how I got through it. With the my mom's help, I managed to adjust within half a year. I never thought I would be able to be stable at that time. There were days I couldn't get up. By the seventh month, I think I got used to the combination of Lamictal and Seroquel. It wasn't perfect but I felt more and more like myself again.

Then, when I got the teaching job, I started forcing myself to follow the routine I wrote about before.

Sorry for the long story. I guess what I want to say is that medication does a lot.

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Originally Posted by Alive99 View Post
PS: Maybe you directly working with people helped also? I'm not working with people directly.
You're right. Talking to students helps me a lot. It's definitely one of the reasons I can keep doing this job.
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Old 06-09-2021, 09:05 AM   #22
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Default Re: Warmup problem - familiar to anyone?

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Originally Posted by mssweatypalms View Post
Yes. A few years ago I experienced the same thing, but I didn't manage it well. I quit my job because of it.

Thanks for your response!! And it's not a problem if it's long I don't mind reading and it's informative.

As for what you mentioned there, I don't plan to do that at all.... I want to do everything to not have to.

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In my case, I try to balance it. If I have deadlines for my other job, I really skip the gym. Instead, I go on weekends to make up for it.
Some of the deadlines for me are at the weekend, lol.

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I didn't include the first 4 years of my diagnosis in my story. I quit my job after 2 years because it was too stressful for me. The schedule was more irregular than my teaching job now. I had to work very long hours, especially when I had business trips.


Hm yeah, this is pretty irregular but only because I don't have some external reference point to look to. If that made sense? Not sure what to call it in English.... I mean I could make it really regular if that worked. So the job itself isn't at fault at all.

EDIT: Oh.....well, so the only one external reference points I've got are the deadlines themselves. That's not often enough, not regular enough, not several times everyday if you get what I mean. I don't know where I can go from this.

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Some months after quitting, I had a hypomanic episode. I suddenly decided to go to another country to work there. I was able to start training in one company, but I suddenly fell into depression again. So, I went back to my country, lived with my mom, and dealt with depression for around 6 months. I tried to do some freelance work during that time, but I was basically unemployed.

OK I don't have experiences like that. Interesting.

Quote:
My doctor changed my medicine at that time, so all those 6 months were spent managing my sleep and overall mood. I think I can relate to that difficult transition from downtime to getting back to a normal routine. It took me several months, so I can't really say how I got through it. With the my mom's help, I managed to adjust within half a year. I never thought I would be able to be stable at that time. There were days I couldn't get up. By the seventh month, I think I got used to the combination of Lamictal and Seroquel. It wasn't perfect but I felt more and more like myself again.

Oh my "not normal routine" was about 16 years though it was not a downtime because I always had goals to work on. Whether it was me working for someone else to earn a living or some other goal, I always worked on one. But yeah, not a nice normal routine with sleep, or anything else, except for my training.

And I don't have that external reference point rightnow, I mean not even family because they went to travel for a week now. I did ask for help recently from them for that, and it helped a little but they can't provide enough of that external reference. They are not "official" enough I think. Or they would have to keep paying lots of attention to me by giving up on some of their plans for a while. That would mean some temporary sacrifice, of course. I've not asked them to do that for long.

But yeah, my mother has also helped me some in the last few months because I moved to their place when I stopped caring to eat. I moved back to my own apartment recently, because they went on that one week-long travel but I don't plan to go live with them again. Maybe go there during the day and pretend it's a work office...but not sleep over regularly. Go there in the morning, go back in the afternoon/evening/whenever the job is done.

Quote:
Then, when I got the teaching job, I started forcing myself to follow the routine I wrote about before.
Sorry for the long story. I guess what I want to say is that medication does a lot.

So again, no problem with the length of the story

I don't think I can do the type of medication you've listed because it would be too strong for me at this point. I've never taken antipsychotics actually....I took Lamictal for a short period but it was a bit too strong lol. Even though effective some, too. Like it made me feel content and stable. Also turned off my mind pretty much, which was also the side effect as it killed my working memory half of the time. So I was gonna miss deadlines unless I was gonna work from morning to evening all day bc of how slow it made me, lol.

But I took it only after 8 years into the bipolar symptoms, so I got access to it pretty late. By then I didn't really have many episodes left. Let alone mania. Earlier it would probably have worked wonders (minus killing my working memory, but earlier I didn't do any intellectual type of work for a while so I wouldn't have even noticed I think.)

That's also why antipsychotics aren't really an option, no mania for me anymore. (I know I sound very er, unorthodox with that claim)

OK well....I really have to focus on how I'm going to manage this because I don't want to give up my training any longer, and I don't want to give up the work either. Do you know of any group or some place like that where I could think about this out loud? Or by any chance, would you be okay with talking with me about it a bit?

Quote:
You're right. Talking to students helps me a lot. It's definitely one of the reasons I can keep doing this job.
That is cool.
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Old 06-09-2021, 09:13 AM   #23
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Default Re: Warmup problem - familiar to anyone?

To be clear: what I need help with is talking through how to do my day, maybe ideas on routines, or how to find some extra, real external reference point or something like that... I'm not interested in theorising or analysing about mental illness like on this forum. Just someone to talk to or some way to think out loud to be able to figure out more because I'm pretty "blocked" with thinking about it on my own. And you've had experience with this already so maybe you'd have some ideas if I think out loud like that a bit.
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:42 AM   #24
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Default Re: Warmup problem - familiar to anyone?

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Originally Posted by FooZe View Post
You don't suppose that that could be your highest priority at the time, and that having to do "some task or even just basic things after you wake up" feels like a potential distraction from it?
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Originally Posted by Alive99 View Post
OK, to answer this again. I'm finding, the answer is no. It's best for me to not engage with the negativity like that. I function better if I stay out if my head. If it has to come up later, OK. But I won't allow it longer than a couple of seconds, I then have to remind myself that the reality around me exists, that's what exists and not the negative stuff, that I have the power to stay outside of that crap, and that there's lots of good, interesting, exciting, enjoyable or just satisfying things to do.

Of course, I did have to process through negatives more closely before but then I really wanted to have a life again and I processed enough. I got ready to find the positive again after the negative. It was time to do that.
I wasn't thinking so much about negativity, as about you perhaps wanting to make sure that "some task or even just basic things after you wake up" wasn't going to crowd out something else important to you, like conversations you needed to have with other people. It seemed to me that catching up on those could very well feel like a warmup for the other, perhaps less interesting, stuff that you also needed to do.
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Old 06-10-2021, 05:15 AM   #25
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Default Re: Warmup problem - familiar to anyone?

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I wasn't thinking so much about negativity, as about you perhaps wanting to make sure that "some task or even just basic things after you wake up" wasn't going to crowd out something else important to you, like conversations you needed to have with other people. It seemed to me that catching up on those could very well feel like a warmup for the other, perhaps less interesting, stuff that you also needed to do.

I would be interested in understanding your idea better. Conversations with other people about my emotions related to processing to the past, is that what you mean?

My issue is that I don't feel it's healthy at all for me to let that be the very first thing in the day. Like, I do acutely feel like what feels best and healthiest to me is if the first thing is me getting up, dressing up, grooming, eating breakfast.

I do also include work in that too (work to earn a living).

(TLDR: the rest you don't have to read. It got long. Your post helped me think aloud though I didn't get very far with it because I didn't figure out any way to raise my mood enough, which is the issue in a nutshell. This thinking helped me be very sure of that at least, that that's the issue.)


***

So...Besides people generally saying "work first, play second", I do feel that'd be also healthier, to do the work first before processing and talking to people... (even tho' this processing of issues is also work for me, hard work, not "play"). If I could do it, I mean. I.e work first, the rest next. On good days I can sometimes do it now!! ..... Too few of those good days still though.


Then there is the thing I figured out today or at least I think it could be true, I don't know if this gut feeling is to be trusted but yeah. That whenever I feel like going on this psychology forum or reading a psychology book or psychology articles (I stopped doing the latter, it took up a lot of my time before, but it did add to my psychoeducation). Then that means that my brain is trying to process my emotions about the bad stuff that happened to me etc. (either in the past or recently with people but mostly the past. But anything people and relationships related, really).

So does it mean, I need to find a way to talk about it. But I don't even know how to put stuff into words for a long time. Takes long to be able to feel the stuff and then to put it into simple words.


But what I'd really really like I think is the following and it was your post that made me realise it. I don't want to block my emotions or processing or whatever, I know it helps me, and I did neglect it literally for decades before, but I don't want this stuff to get in the way either. Like if I could tell that side of my brain that it's all okay if I wait and do the daily routine first, and then I'll get to it, that would be great. Just absolutely so great, imagine it! I would be able to do the work tasks, and then do the processing AFTER I'm done with work that others need me to get done, that I get paid for, to earn a living and so on. Then I would never be late with deadlines. It would never be a f*** struggle to meet the deadlines, or a constant struggle to play catch up with them. Damn it, DRUMROLL, I could even do my sports training regularly! Because I would never have to work at night and the stress would never go so high from that, making me skip training and making my days a complete mess. I could just, really, be able to function while holding the processing back until the afternoon or the evening or something like that. Or even just like, late morning if I'm finished early with the jobs, if I don't have to do a lot that particular day. But yeah, it not getting in the way of having a normal day. Now that'd be great yeah.

While writing all that out, I realised I don't even know why it cannot be held back like that. I went to a therapist once that told me to do exactly that, put the problem aside, and deal with the processing later. I told her I can't. She said but that's what you need to do. That's what people do. I said I just can't. I don't know why I can't. But I do know that unless something really good happened or I luck out and have a good day somehow, then I have a better mood only by the evening or by late night or sometimes only by next morning. That is why I would pull allnighters to do the work in the past. It's better now but it's still not great.

But anyway, is my inability to hold it back related to my mood being low, well not even low, but totally blocked out, of course. It's so low it needs to be blocked out by my brain. Well obviously. That's it.

When I said I'm not able to hold it back I mean is when I try to do things. When I try to get over the block.

But if someone helps me feel good, because they pay attention to me IRL, or something, then I can hold it back for a while. Then I feel I function more normal. And the processing of the issues when I don't hold it back anymore, that's a lot less painful too. Oh well. I just don't want to be told that the only way to do this stuff with having normal days is if someone pays attention to me like that IRL lol.


I used to be able to feel good going out with a friend to see a movie. Like it would help or would've helped when I got the trauma starting from a bad situation. But since those friends also ran away afterwards, I don't think seeing a movie with a friend would help anymore (even if I still had one of those friends around). It needs more fundamental stuff now to lift my mood to that point of not having to block stuff out because it simply feels good enough being in the world out of my head.

OK, so I just want to be like, reassure my own brain that things aren't SO horrible, and the processing and stuff about people relationships can wait. Like they aren't that EXTREMELY important anymore to get first priority with wanting to be the first thing in the morning. And that I'll get to it anyway for sure, I'll get to it later, not ignore it completely like I did it for decades. How I'd reassure my own brain though to get the block out of the way without then feeling real crap that needs processing ASAP, to avoid having to feel extremely low. Without someone else paying attention IRL either to make me feel better. Yeah. Dunno.

...

Tbh it's already a step forward if I can think aloud. Usually if I either find something I can relate to in a psychology book (usually the anecdotes in CBT books, sometimes other books but I noticed it's easiest with CBT books for some reason, or maybe other books that have some good, structure and system introduced in them that's easy enough to follow). Or on here on the forum if someone responds in a post to me or on the chat on here.

It's a step forward because then my brain/mind isn't just completely empty/blocked And then eventually I can get somewhere with thinking, well more like writing, I'm not that good with thinking in my own head. Unless I get lucky

It's just that a lot of the thinking is redundant because I've got through it before. Like it's part of the warmup Like, I have to go through it before I can find some conclusion I can actually use. Because of how empty/blocked my mind is when I start with it. :Shrug: There's been psychology studies about how much mental effort it takes to go from loss to gain. Especially MUCH effort to go from big loss to gain. So this is normal when I'm doing it all alone without extra energy, lol.

Last edited by Alive99; 06-10-2021 at 05:30 AM..
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Old 06-10-2021, 05:48 AM   #26
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Default Re: Warmup problem - familiar to anyone?

I skimmed my earlier posts in this thread. Well, gonna respond to my own old post to show progress.



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But say they have that basic empathy and accommodate for my disability thingy, they'll still have to be able to deal with my triggers too. Like if I have energy and then I try to get to do things too quickly my emotional triggers will just come out anyway and then I will be like, I look angry or upset even if I don't say anything or attack anyone. It's not borderline PD, it's cPTSD but I don't even know of a rehabilitation centre for that here, paid or not, costing a fortune or not.

Those triggers are a thing of the past. I've got the anger under control, it's back to nearly normal anger. Same for upset etc. This is the result of a few years of work of course but yeah I've got some big steps forward with that. Now my world is stable, grounded. There can still be bad, negative emotions, negativity coming from other people but it's also normalised a lot, even if not fully (re-)calibrated yet.

So that part is fine, I would not have to worry about this part if I tried to go this outpatient programme at that hospital, as long as they allow me to do my own thing, i.e. do work in the hospital in the outpatient setting. While others do their own stuff like drawing or literature stuff, idk the things they do in these programmes. It's the kind of thing we have in these intensive outpatient programmes here. (There is no therapy with it, so by "intensive" I just mean the time investment, it's several hours a day every weekday.)



Quote:
And I did go for an interview once for an inpatient therapy setting. (The thingy where you go and stay for months in an inpatient setting and you have lots of group therapy and a bit of individual therapy.) And it was horrid, the interview. The clinical psychologist wasn't interested in showing empathy or making room for my disability (sorry long story as to what it is), or to consider how it could be accommodated and tried to tell me how it is when he's not the one with the disability, it was all really abusive. Anyway yeah so it turned out they wouldn't accommodate my issue in the inpatient setting so I had to skip the option. Maybe there is something in private health care for rehabilitation in a similar inpatient setting, I've seen things like that but they cost a fortune and I don't have a fortune for it lol god. Sure maybe if I somehow managed to pay a fortune - say I save up enough for this TOO, ugh - they would accommodate for my issue and then it would actually work but I dunno. I really don't. Because I haven't heard of a place that is specialised in that too tho it's not necessary to have specialisation, basic empathy would be enough imo.
The issue with the accommodation for the disability issue, it's something I either can get lucky with or not. Or I can try and figure out how to get their cooperation more effectively. Problem is, people showed so many bad reactions in the past (them not being educated about my issue, I don't know, but it's usually psychologists that react bad, the average human in the street deals with it way better LOL weird enough) that it became its own trigger.... And now maybe I can control rage, and not be vulnerable to an actual trigger overall, but it means I can still be at risk for losing the flexibility/adaptability in thinking, in problem solving. That would mean I may have a blank mind, may not find a solution on the spot. Eh.

I've made steps to try and talk to people with the same disability though. I've contacted several people in the last few weeks. Maybe I can get tips from them.



Quote:
I understand it doesn't have to be all day though if the interaction is quality enough or something. But I don't really know what's quality enough like that. Or maybe it doesn't exist because my issues are just still too bad for that.
Yeah, I still don't know what's a quality enough interaction emotionally. But it's okay because if I just enjoy the activity or whatever's done together, that's already enough for me (as far as, it providing a good positive atmosphere for processing without pain/extra negativity). As long as I'm not seeking a close relationship (close friendship or whatever). And I am not. For now, no no


Quote:
But again I just need to survive the next few days. Then I'll have a more manageable course I think. I just don't know yet how to survive it. THAT's my problem for now.
Yeah. I survived it
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Old 06-10-2021, 01:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: Warmup problem - familiar to anyone?

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Hey all. I am interested in this....with your depression, have you experienced this, trying to do some task or even just basic things after you wake up, or during the day, but if you force yourself to do the thing, it feels like you skipped warmup before doing a harder workout? If that makes sense... like this way you feel you have to put in more energy to do the task than necessary, and it feels almost painful, painfully forced.

I'd be VERY interested if anyone found ways to warmup properly without that taking long hours lol.



***

I noticed one thing so far for myself, if I can talk to someone or I just feel it's like someone is listening to me (even if I'm just journalling alone or writing somewhere online where no one is currently paying attention but they might read it later). Then, if I can feel someone is paying attention like that, I'm able to talk spontaneously about something kind of negative and then after that I might be warmed up for the task, for a while at least.

Problem: with journalling I don't often feel this mood that it's like someone is paying attention (even tho' I'm alone).

And I am not even sure if this is the only way to do the warmup. I'd like to find other ways.

***



Thanks so much for any response!

Try having to be at work at 6 and 5 in the morning lol. I know someone who says they need alone time in the morning before they start their day. Sounds like similar issues.

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Old 06-10-2021, 03:15 PM   #28
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Default Re: Warmup problem - familiar to anyone?

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Try having to be at work at 6 and 5 in the morning lol. I know someone who says they need alone time in the morning before they start their day. Sounds like similar issues.

Thanks for the input. Hm yeah alone time, this is interesting. I don't know how long your friend needs alone time? What does he/she do specifically during that time?


Lol and yeah getting up early....back in high school it had me burn out pretty bad lol, I hated getting up early and then I just couldn't anymore because other issues made everything worse
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Old Yesterday, 11:46 AM   #29
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Default Re: Warmup problem - familiar to anyone?

OK. I know how to not overcomplicate it now when I try to put it into words. All websites etc that list things for treatment of depression also list social support. That's what I don't have IRL (or very little, from family sometimes) and yeah, well, that would help me lift the mood, so then I would have less of a warm up problem.

So how do you get regular social support IRL if all of your IRL "friends" left because they didn't want to deal with you/be there for you in hard times?

Suggestions?!
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