[pachyderm]

Evidence That Serotonin Failure Does Not Cause Depression | Psychology Today

Given the complexity of these changes and our limited understanding of what they mean, it is naïve to assume that the changes in serotonin, or any specific neurotransmitter, are the only ones involved.

[MaverickLovesYou]

Nice to see people/professionals are still working on this subject. Thank you for posting pachy

[marvin_pa]

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that working on diagnosing/modifying brain behavior, is something akin to working on an incredibly complex machine without access to any sort of operating manual. We're still at the point of disconnecting various leads, hoses or wiring and watching to see what difference it makes.

[Breaking Dawn]

Meds never helped me when I was clinically depressed. Talk therapy, CBT, & physical exercise helped me. Since then I have discovered more about my brain, which I believe is way more than what I am. The brain is like a universe! And so wonderfully mysterious.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by marvin_pa

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that working on diagnosing/modifying brain behavior, is something akin to working on an incredibly complex machine without access to any sort of operating manual. We're still at the point of disconnecting various leads, hoses or wiring and watching to see what difference it makes.

Thanks for this thread pachy.

I think this post is well put
(good to see you here, marvin_pa)

[Rose76]

"Chemical imbalance of the brain" never resonated with me. One theory used to say that depression causes low serotonin levels . . . not the other way around.

I think experiences growing up, especially social ones, are the main causes.

[marvin_pa]

Originally Posted by Rose76

"Chemical imbalance of the brain" never resonated with me. One theory used to say that depression causes low serotonin levels . . . not the other way around.

I think experiences growing up, especially social ones, are the main causes.

It's a moot point - depression does seem to correlate with some sort of chemical imbalance, but is that cause or effect, or both? Blocking the reuptake of serotonin/dopamine pharmaceutically is essentially tweaking part of a complex machine that is only understood in a limited way, but does seem to have some affect, though variable depending on the individual.

Experiences and how they program the links between memories and their association with emotional response and perspective seem to also play a key role, something which talk therapy and things like EMDR seem designed to try and address.

To me, it seems like the human (and likely the brains of any creatures considered sentient) have evolved to a point of complexity, where they are capable of setting & revising their emotional state/perspective drawn from memories, but with the side-effect of sometimes creating perspectives that are upsetting & traumatic to deal with.

In short, we're an unfinished & still evolving piece of work.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by marvin_pa

It's a moot point - depression does seem to correlate with some sort of chemical imbalance, but is that cause or effect, or both? Blocking the reuptake of serotonin/dopamine pharmaceutically is essentially tweaking part of a complex machine that is only understood in a limited way, but does seem to have some affect, though variable depending on the individual.

Experiences and how they program the links between memories and their association with emotional response and perspective seem to also play a key role, something which talk therapy and things like EMDR seem designed to try and address.

To me, it seems like the human (and likely the brains of any creatures considered sentient) have evolved to a point of complexity, where they are capable of setting & revising their emotional state/perspective drawn from memories, but with the side-effect of sometimes creating perspectives that are upsetting & traumatic to deal with.

In short, we're an unfinished & still evolving piece of work.

Amitriptyline changed my life. I have to admit that.

[T4bbyCat]

I guess they still haven't really figured out the problem. ADs may address only the symptoms, namely low serotonin levels. Maybe that can work to some extent, even if in a placebo sense. However, it would explain why ADs don't work for everyone (including me, it appears).

[marvin_pa]

Originally Posted by T4bbyCat

I guess they still haven't really figured out the problem. ADs may address only the symptoms, namely low serotonin levels. Maybe that can work to some extent, even if in a placebo sense. However, it would explain why ADs don't work for everyone (including me, it appears).

No, they haven't figured out the complete problem - increasing the availability of particular neurotransmitters is almost certainly only partially addressing the issue and the deeper mechanics of brain behavior are not yet fully understood. Couple that with individual differences with brain chemistry and learned experience, it's not so surprising that results can vary so widely.

That said, when meds work (even if by placebo), it's better than nothing and talk therapy may help address some of the issues that meds fail to. Collectively these are likely better than some of the treatments applied in the not so distant past.

[moodyblue83]

I think psychology is the least advanced part of the human evolution.
Because it is extremely complicated with many things involved.
There is a complex connection between the brain and your body ,
and your body and the outside world. It is all hit or miss.
The greatest hope is the evolution of psychopharmacology.
We can’t change our experiences , but we can change how we think about them.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by moodyblue83

I think psychology is the least advanced part of the human evolution.
Because it is extremely complicated with many things involved.
There is a complex connection between the brain and your body ,
and your body and the outside world. It is all hit or miss.
The greatest hope is the evolution of psychopharmacology.
We can’t change our experiences , but we can change how we think about them.

I don't see how changing how we think about our experiences has to do with pharmacology. To me it has more to do with not censoring our thoughts and feelings.

[Rose76]

I think an awful lot of depression is related to loneliness.

[marvin_pa]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

I don't see how changing how we think about our experiences has to do with pharmacology. To me it has more to do with not censoring our thoughts and feelings.

To me, the best solution currently seems to be some combination of meds & psychotherapy. When they work, the meds can assist with the process of re-evaluating one's mental perspective & help stabilize a hopefully better mental state. However psychotherapy (or at least, being able to talk frankly about one's troubles) seems likely more effective at rewiring one's thought processes than meds alone.

Basically a lot more work needs to be done to make treatments more directed, effective and last, but not least, readily available & affordable.