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Default Jan 27, 2023 at 04:04 PM
  #161
For Rose 76:

I empathize with your situation with your sister. At least you were able to call her, and express how you were feeling. That took some strength, and I admire you for it.

It seems you don't have any illusions about her. I am so sorry you are having to be on the receiving end of what appears to have no logical explanation. Totally unacceptable of her.

Why, exactly, your sister would choose to basically turn her back on you at this point in life is beyond me. Especially if you were historically close. I do believe some people grow more self-absorbed as they age. I've seen it, first-hand. Their needs and wants become paramount. I think it's a kind of bulwark against everything aging often brings to us. It's like a delayed midlife crisis.

I have a troublesome sibling, but the situation is a little different. I believe she actually suffers from a narcissistic personality disorder, and has been a disappointment to me my whole life (among other things). There is no hope for me ever having a civil and supportive relationship with her. She has actually been downright cruel, a number of times in the past. I could write a short book about all the stunts she's pulled (always at my expense) over time. The pain this has caused me has been life-altering. But I am educating myself about the disorder, and have made a lot of progress...and healing, for me, has been steady, I'm happy to report.

I stumbled across two helpful articles about family relations, here: News and Information for People Over 50 | Next Avenue. I discovered a hugely helpful amount of pertinent and very well-written articles under their Mental Health topics.

It's a great place to go to find just-the-right amount of information, on all kinds of interesting and thought provoking subjects that mature adults encounter.

It is possible to recover from great pain, sorrow, and loss, inflicted by many possible causes. I am living proof of it.

Wishing you well, MG
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Default Jan 27, 2023 at 10:50 PM
  #162
Thank you for the posts above. I got out today to my healthcare clinic to get a vaccine shot. Since coming home, I've not been doing well mentally.

Next, I'm going to clean up the kitchen. It's messy and discouraging to look at. It's hard to tear myself away from the TV and go do that. But I must. The news channels are depressing to look at.

I have to find a way to regain some normalcy in my state of mind. Later I'll post about any progress I make. This is getting fightening. The more I think about the rift with my sister, the less I see where this is going to be fixable. No one relationship should be that crucial.
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Default Jan 28, 2023 at 12:54 PM
  #163
When things get that way for me (and they still do, for short lengths of time, these days), I chip away at chores, and take whatever success I find as a victory. I am very realistic about what I can get done, and when.

I hope the pain of this problem starts to fade for you, and soon. It is really hard when the people we care about don't seem to care at all for us. It's literally, physically painful, I know.

There is so much of human behaviour that I will never be able to get my head around. Sometimes you just have to walk away, grieve, and do the best that you can for yourself.

You matter, just as you are. Keep yourself safe, and do not measure yourself by the unwholesome yardstick she's now employing, for whatever reason.
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Default Jan 29, 2023 at 04:41 PM
  #164
@MuseumGhost - thank you. Getting my place tidied up would make me feel better. I haven't even taken the Christmas tree down. Looking at it now is not a source of joy. I know I have no deadline, but I'll feel better, when I put the Christmas stuff away. I have a tree, a Nativity set and a Victorian village that was my boyfriend's, plus garlands over windows and doors, plus lights outside around a window, plus wreaths on my doors. Seeing all that stuff now makes me sad.

I'm just not making myself do what needs to be done. I did pick up the kitchen yesterday. At least the dishes are done.

I have mail to go through. I'll be paying some bills late. That will bring late fees. I'm just making my life worse by neglecting things. I have to stop this.
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Default Jan 29, 2023 at 11:37 PM
  #165
I managed to go in and make up the bed. A well made bed is nicer to get into at night. I had to make 2 attempts. The second time, I put on the TV in the bedroom. It helped me to stay there long enough to do the bed.

I keep coming back to my recliner in front of the living room TV. I thought for hours about whether I should write a letter to my sister. I think, for now, it's best for me to do nothing about contacting her.

I should start looking at my mail. Everything is so hard to do.
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 07:45 AM
  #166
I watched some Youtube videos about depression. One video said that, if you can function well, then you're not depressed. I'm confused about that. All through my life, I've pretty much always been able to function. The video said that, if you function well, then you're sad, but not depressed.

I'm not saying that it's real important what label is put on my state of mind. But it does seem to matter. When my mother died, I was extremely sad, but not depressed. Those are two very different states. When my boyfriend died I was very sad at first. After a few weeks, I became depressed, as well as sad. I ended up going for an inpatient stay because I wanted to die. I left the hospital feeling much better.

I don't feel like I have any reason to go into a hospital right now. I feel very bad, but I am not a danger to myself. I did tell my sister that I've been very down and could use some support. She knows I deal with depression. Still, she is not offering me much. It was hard for me to ask her for help. Many years ago, I told her I was depressed. She said, "It sounds like you need professional help." That seemed like her way of saying that me being depressed was not her problem and that I better not expect her to address what was my problem. So I didn't bother her any further at that time. After my boyfriend died, she was pretty nice and started calling me a lot. She was already a widow herself, and seemed more understanding.

The week at the hospital helped, but it was the calls from my two sisters that also helped a lot. I recovered very well. For over two years, I'ld been doing pretty okay.

I have another sister who has kept very in touch. She sends me gifts and is extremely thoughtful. I don't discuss depression with her though. Some years ago I called her and told her I was depressed. She said, "Use your coping skills." and she couldn't get off the phone quick enough. She tends to think that depression is a choice. Plus, she was so concerned all summer, when I was in and out of the hospital with physical problems, that I don't want to burden her more. That leaves me pretty much on my own. I do appreciate the help I've gotten here.

It's awful waking up in the middle of the night. I better do things later today and make some progress. My thoughtful sister is away on a special trip, which is another reason I don't want to bother her.

This is getting to be a bad episode of whatever it is. I don't have the help I had two years ago.
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 11:09 AM
  #167
Rose is loved lots and lots 🌹
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 11:24 AM
  #168
It can be such a mixed bag coping with depression even if family care and are around, as you describe, people have their own preconceptions such as believing depression is a choice.

I’m unsure too what the man in the video meant by not being depressed if you can function well, What about high functioning depression? People can do all sorts of things, run businesses, raise families all the while not being fully emotionally present because they’re struggling with depression.
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 12:20 PM
  #169
The only people I had in my family who REALLY knew what depression actually was and how it presented itself (and what you could do about it) were my Dad and my brother. I lost them both tragically, because of cancers, only a year and a half apart, not long after my diagnosis. This was terribly-timed, horrifying, and devastating, in the most extreme sense. It took me years to recover the little ground I had previously gained.

Everyone else was openly denying that I had it, telling me I needed to,"exercise more", or they were downright dismissive, ( a certain miserable individual even opined to me, at length, about what she thought depression "really" was: an attempt at garnering lots of pitiful attention, combined with an over-arching case of laziness; i.e, she used it as an excuse to attack my character.).

We have a long way to go before the majority of people will grasp what it is we deal with, how it presents itself, and what we can actually do about it. It's one big reason people who have suffered from it go on to become educators and psych professionals.

I theorize, because I've seen it in their eyes and on their faces, that people are terrified of any kind of mental illness. The stigma attached to it all is still very powerful. It's also why they don't read-up or educate themselves about it. It's very much like old attitudes about cancer. And the less they understand, the easier it is to remain with their heads in the sand, and also keep the spectre of it at arm's length.

Psych professionals know that there are distinct differences between sadness, real grief, and depression (although they share some features). That's why they could create accurate diagnostic questionnaires to determine where a person is at, across a spectrum, and on a sliding scale (what you are suffering from, and how badly you are suffering).

It has to be said, here: Please try and take what you watch online with a grain of salt, until you can discuss it with a medical professional. A lot of what's out there is genuine and correct. But there is a percentage of presenters who only want to sell you their podcast subscriptions and books. And that requires no professional training, as well as the fact that people can claim to be anything they want to be, qualified or not, online. It's much safer to stick with clinical definitions of mood.

And, lastly, I wouldn't beat yourself up about the Christmas tree. It's normal to look at it with a slightly different attitude, after the holidays are all done. Especially if you are a neat-nik! We live in a rather cold, grey part of the world for much of the Winter, so we leave our lights, at least, and sometimes the tree, until my husband's birthday, early February. It keeps the living room feeling warm, especially at night. I've made that adjustment for him---I used to always have every thing put away by a certain date, too. But I've relaxed my rules, and I'm okay with it.

We have to cut ourselves some slack when we're not at our best. I've been where you are, and I wasted an awful lot of time and energy beating myself up. Depression is very good at getting us to do that. So, maybe just try chipping away at it little by little, too---starting with taking down what bothers you most.

I don't recall, maybe you mentioned this a while ago---are you seeing a doctor on a regular basis, and are you taking any medications? I meant to ask sooner.

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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 03:58 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by willowtigger View Post
Rose is loved lots and lots 🌹
What a nice thing to say!

Sometimes the best thing in the world is the kindness of strangers. Back in 2020, when I was in the psych facility, I found I could feel much better just by talking with other people. I'm introverted, but pain - emotional as well as physical - can be quite a motivator. One evening there was just one person, besides me, in the TV room. He was a young man, young enough to be my son. I didn't think we'ld have a lot in common, but I forced myself to try and be sociable.

He was very nice to talk with. He was homeless. I had worked as a nurse briefly at an agency that helped the homeless. I knew a lot about the resources for that population in my city. I recommended a place to him that he didn't know about. The next day he saw me in the med line. He came over and hugged me and introduced me to some others that he had gotten friendly with. Sometimes, when there was nothing going on, I would just walk up and down a long hall for some exercise. He would ask to walk along with me and he was nice company. He told me he had just gotten out of prison. He said very encouraging things to me. He had a serious medical issue. I told him about a shelter that gave strong support to homeless men with serious health issues, and I explained how he could get referred there. I think we both benefitted from talking to each other. But I almost might never have struck up a chat with him. I only did because I was desperate not to just sit silently by myself. Sitting silently would lead to my grief taking over my mind, which was awful.

My whole problem now is that I'm alone too much.
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 04:32 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Discombobulated View Post
It can be such a mixed bag coping with depression even if family care and are around, as you describe, people have their own preconceptions such as believing depression is a choice.

I’m unsure too what the man in the video meant by not being depressed if you can function well, What about high functioning depression? People can do all sorts of things, run businesses, raise families all the while not being fully emotionally present because they’re struggling with depression.
It was a lady, and my impression was that she was a mental health professional. She said specifically that "high functioning depression" is a non-medical term that has become popular with lay persons, but has no formally defined meaning. She said that psychiatrists do not recognize this term, or what it is supposed to mean.

She said the closest accepted, approved diagnosis was "persistant depressive disorder." That is a recent addition to the latest edition of the DSM. I was often diagnosed with "dysthymia." She said that term was thrown out by the new DSM.

All of this that she presented seemed off base to me. Certainly there are people with seriously troubled minds who perform responsible jobs. People have come home from work, where they seemed to be okay, and then killed themselves. If that's not depression, then I don't know what other name it should be given. I've actually known some individuals who ended their own lives. None of them sat around in a catatonic state beforehand. They were all going about their normal daily activities, until they weren't. We've seen famous cases that made the news, where the individual had a high profile, responsible job. Suddenly, they were gone.

As a consumer of psych services for many years, I've heard a lot of ideas that didn't impress me as being rooted in reality. Some ideas are fads that come into vogue and then peter out. I'm happy for anyone who finds anything that helps them. But I don't automatically buy into any theory, no matter how popular.

Last edited by FooZe; Feb 02, 2023 at 02:49 AM.. Reason: Administrative edit to bring within guidelines
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 07:34 PM
  #172
@MuseumGhost - thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. I'm sorry you lost your dad and brother, who were understanding of the struggle you were having with your diagnosis. Life sure can be cruel. I'm very familiar with that alternative, negating view that sees depression as glorified sulking. People are quick to say, "Well, I've been depressed lots of times, but I never gave in to it." I just never confided much to anyone because I didn't expect there to be much understanding. Even my thoughtful sister used to say, "You just dwell on things too much." So I didn't much burden my family with any talk about me having depressive episodes. Then, when my boyfriend died, they did get worried that I might not handle the grief without going off the deep end, especially since I had no circle of people to lean on where I live. They started keeping closely in touch. It felt great for them to take that much interest in me. I still didn't do any whining to them.

Some counselors I've talked to always said, "It sounds like your meds need adjusting." I really hate hearing that. Depression isn't like an infection, whereby you just need to find the right antibiotic. Times when my life's been very lonely, there's just no amount of drugs that would fix that.

I don't think people who aren't prone to depression can really understand people who are. Even professionals in the mental health field often pay a lot of lip service and use the right talking points, but deep down harbor a certain disdain toward clients whose mental health problems are chronically recurring. I wish there were something analogous to AA for depressives. I even went to AA at times, thinking that folk there would know a lot about depression first-hand. And I had tried alcohol as a remedy. But I didn't develop much of a drinking habit. People at AA could tell I wasn't really one of them. In some ways, I was more broken. When I got real depressed, I had no interest in drinking. I've never met a doctor or a therapist who said they themselves wrestled with depression. There must be some out there.

I think people fear listening to someone say they are depressed because they fear that the person might become suicidal, and they don't want to be cited as having been in a position to foresee that. So, if someone complains of feeling very depressed, their knee-jerk response is, "Sounds like you need help. You better go get some help . . . as in professional help." If they're real generous, they might say, "Do you want me to drive you to a hospital?" Their attitude is: "You need to go see a doctor." Those telephone crisis lines see their roll as mainly providing referrals. Just about everyone wants to refer you to someone else. They want to "put you in touch with the right resources." Families think, "We better turn this over to professional people." So they minimize contact with the person, when warmth from family is precisely what the person needs. Instead, they think the person needs their meds adjusted.

I did therapy to death. There's nothing left for me to talk about. There's nothing left to analyze. I was doing pretty well just hearing from my sisters and all three of us planning our reunion. Then one just ghosts me. So I have to grieve that loss and find others to be connected with.

I do know that there's all kind of stuff online, some of it unreliable. I've only just started to realize that the makers of podcasts are possibly making money through what they put up on Youtube. Thanks for mentioning that. I'm still kind of naiive about Youtube. I'm not sure where all these TEDX presenters are coming from.

My primary does prescribe my antidepressant that I've been on for years. I do better on it than off it. I'm not seeing any psychiatrist or therapist. I did all of that over and over for many years. The last time was after my boyfriend died. No meds helped beyond the one med I've taken for years. Hearing from family and keeping busy was what got me well. I need to make some friends. I need to get out of my apartment.
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 07:51 PM
  #173
This morning I called to try to see my provider - a P.A. Not available till the end of March. I have an eye infection and I'm going to run out of my antidepressant because I upped the dose. So they said I could come in today and be seen by the supervising MD.

So I took up the offer and saw the doctor. She was friendly but in quite a rush. She ordered antibiotic eye drops and more of my antudepressant. I said I needed to take a higher dose because I've been more depressed. She was not looking to hear anything more from me, so I shut up.

Then the staff there said I could get seen on 2/15 by my regular provider. So I'll do that. I don't expect much will come of it. I'll just get my prescriptions renewed. I don't know anything else they could do for me.

When I told the doctor today that I got real depressed over the holidays . . . . . . it was like I said that I gained some weight over the holidays. No reaction whatsoever. Like I had said something utterly unimportant.
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 08:14 PM
  #174
Ughh, the hardness of some doctors. I have run into that (over and over again, literally). It makes going to see a doctor extremely stressful.

I suspect the pandemic has burned a lot of medical professionals right out, or has brought them very close to it. My own doctor decided to "leave medicine" in October (she's been practicing for less than 10 years.). I haven't even been able to follow-up on recommendations made in the Summer, because now, I have to begin the process of finding a new GP all over again. It's tough here in Canada.

I share your disappointment at their stoic unresponsiveness. I've had several which I wondered whether they were actually autistic, or clinically anti-social. It doesn't take very much to be kind, actually. I don't know why they can't manage it.

Hang in there. Just about everything you've written, I've thought about at one point or another.

I have been doing the one-day-at-a-time approach for years now, borrowed straight from AA. At times, I felt so defeated; nothing to show for all my struggles. Mostly, I kept going because of the people around me---my husband, my mother-in-law, and my one sister, who I still adore. I have found having an external reason to keep on the path is actually a very good one. That, and the fact that I still had dreams to fulfill.

My hypotheses about why people act as they do are just that--- educated guesses. I would never claim to know ALL the answers. But the older I get, and the more I educate myself about other people's issues and about relationships, the more I can relax, and let go.

I've been through a lot. But looking back, I can say for certain that I am stronger now than I have ever been.

Wishing you glimmers of light, and reasons to fight on!
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 11:20 PM
  #175
@MuseumGhost - you made me chuckle with how you characterize some doctors, as being possibly "on the spectrum," so to speak. Thanks. I needed to smile. There's also a thing that I call "the Cesar Milan" school of patient care. The "Dog Whisperer" tells his human clients that they must never pet or speak sweetly to a dog that is shivering in fear or distress. To do so, he says, just reinforces the very behavior and mindset that you're trying to discourage. Instead, you remain stoically indifferent to little Poochie having his nervous breakdown, when he hears the thunder claps. Similarly, though a client of psych services may be distraught from a chain of adversities that have overridden his coping capacity, you must refrain from any show of humanity or empathy toward the client. Otherwise, that client will be motivated to never recover. I think psych patients deserve at least some courtesy. I don't think doctors are exempt from making the small gestures that basic decency requires of everyone else.

Like when I called my clinic's psychiatrist a month after my boyfriend died. He'ld been managing my psych meds. I informed him that my guy had passed away and that I was becoming unable to handle the loss. He told me that I was fine and my feelings were normal. He never even said, "Sorry for your loss." I don't think being an @$$hθ|€ is part of being an effective physician. Such smug dismissiveness conveys disdain. It's disrespectful to the patient's personhood.

I'm sorry you're losing your personal physician. Try now to find a young one who may last your lifetime. It's great that you've grown stronger with experience.

I'm getting through one hour at a time. On top of depression, I've started to have real anxiety. I don't see this changing soon. I have to try.
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Default Jan 31, 2023 at 01:34 PM
  #176
Bad memories are haunting me.

One time, my brother got mad at me. We lived far apart from each other. It was during a phone call. I didn't know just how mad he got, until he showed me.

I send him a card for some occasion. A week later, I got a piece of mail from him. When I opened it, inside was the piece of mail I sent him. Scrawled across the envelope were these words. "Anything else you send me will be put in the trash." The next day I came home to a message on my answering machine. It was my brother's voice. He said something about how he could see through me and that he was not fooled by me doing things to seem nice and that he knew what a piece of crap I really was.

I knew my brother was disturbed, but I hadn't known he was that full of anger and hatred, or that he could despise me so much.

Years later I managed to patch things up with him. He was in jail, and I sent him $600 to pay a fine to get out of jail. Eventually, he got mad again and called me to tell me how much he despised me.

At one point, he ended up in a federal prison hospital where he was being treated on a psych unit to enable him to stand trial for charges that he destroyed property at a VA hospital. While he was there, we wrote to each other, and I bought him some things he needed and put money on his books. He sent me letters and pictures. He said the federal prison gave him the best care he had ever gotten. He seemed a lot better. Of course, that didn't last.

It was around that time that his court-appointed attorney told me that my brother was a lost cause and was destined to be murdered on the street some day. He advised me that my efforts to help my brother were probably wasted.

My brother seemed better for awhile. His legal matters got settled. Then, one day, he called me to say he never wanted to see me again. That was about ten years ago. I heard he was moving around the country because he contacted a family member a few times, looking for money. In over 5 years, nobody has heard from him. Nobody knows what became of him.

I realize he was a very disturbed person. I realize that the way he treated me was not due to anything I did against him. It was due to him wanting to blame someone for how bad his life was. He always saw himself as a victim.

Now I feel like I'm losing another sibling. What makes this seem similar is that it seems like I'm being blamed for committing some awful offense. Both of these persons are prone to really delusional thinking. I mean really psychotic ideas that I couldn't even go into here. A few years ago, my sister told a lie about a family member that was just awful.

I have to let go of trying to fix things that I probably can't fix. Yesterday, I wanted to call my sister and say, "Are you mad at me?" I decided not to do that. But I worry that I could lose her like I lost my brother. Maybe I already have.

I have things to get done today, and that's what I should be doing. I want to have something to look forward to. There doesn't seem to be anything. I'm sorry for going on like this.
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Default Jan 31, 2023 at 01:58 PM
  #177
Your brother has chose his own path, of he ever crops up again its best to not have anything to do with him
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Default Jan 31, 2023 at 02:33 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by willowtigger View Post
Your brother has chose his own path, of he ever crops up again its best to not have anything to do with him
Thank you for reading my post. I understand what you are saying. I've asked myself what would I do, if he showed up and rang my doorbell? I think the main thing for me to remember is that he doesn't mind causing a lot of pain. Someone like that is dangerous to have around.
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Default Jan 31, 2023 at 02:46 PM
  #179
Sounds like he will only be nice when HE wants something, he doesnt care about other people's needs
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Default Jan 31, 2023 at 03:12 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by willowtigger View Post
Sounds like he will only be nice when HE wants something, he doesnt care about other people's needs
This is true. He can act nice, while he's using someone. It never lasts though.
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