questions please?

[so so sorry, long post]

first of all, i know most responses will be to discuss this with my T. but i don't have one because i am on medicare/disability and it would cost $38 each session as opposed to $8 to see the new pdoc, who is admittedly not as familiar with DID. also, in the state system, to see a T would change my status and just can't afford it. doesn't it all come down to money?

just read a post here about a DES test. had just posted elsewhere that i decided not to take the sanity test because have hit "tilt" in not wanting to know any more about this old brain than i already do (bipolar, alcoholic, anxiety disorder, abuse survivor, yada yada yada, and at last pdoc visit, possible DID, rule out PTSD ). but it was just too tempting so took it. out of 100, score was 60. i was devastated.

why? because i harbored secretly the notion that what's been happening to me lately was really not true DID, but depersonalization/derealization. i felt this way because i do not have missing chunks of time (sarcasm--except my entire childhood--only a few fleeting memories), do not "come to" dressed differently, or have people say "hi" that i don't know, or find things bought that i do not remember buying.

however, and this is what is scaring me, other things i didn't even consider DID have always happened. so here are my questions please. (oh please be patient with me...the learning comes so slow, like part of me understands, then it's passed along thru the brain, etc.)

why would it be DID if....
1) i don't hear a lot of the time what people are saying to me (and not hard of hearing)
2) watching myself as if out of my body, or standing "next to myself"
3) looking in the mirror and not knowing that is "me" (always have done that, finally quit wearing makeup it spooks me so, and keep a perm all the time--critical--so can just comb and go)
4) feeling that others, the world, objects aren't real
5) feeling like my body doesn't belong to me
6) remembering past events so clearly it's like reliving them (good ones too)
7) wondering if things really happened or if i dreamed them
8) being in a familiar place but feeling it is strange or unfamiliar
9) so absorbed in a movie or tv that unaware of events going on around me
10) so involved in a fantasy or daydream it's like it's really happening
11) sometimes able to ignore pain
12) stare off into space and unaware of the time passing
13) act so differently in different situations feels like "two" people
14) able to do certain things with ease that would normally be difficult
15) feel like living in a fog and things/people seem far away or unclear

two or three of these seem obvious, but the others? why, why, why would they be DID???? for instance, i had foot surgery once. right after the surgery i was *standing* brushing my teeth! the doc came in and yelled at me to lie back down and i said: "why, it doesn't hurt". he looked at me very puzzled.

see? i remember these things! it was "just me" standing there wasn't it???

and staring off, causing loss of time, that's just "zoning out" isn't it???

acting differently at different situations...why DID???

and sometimes i do things that amaze me in having the ability, but then it strangely "recedes" into the background. ???

*********************

please, i don't expect answers to all this. just a hint or two of how others feel?? am a little shook right now. well, a lot shook. but when i made the commitment to heal, all this stuff started happening in my brain, the thickness, the flashbacks, and one recent thing i can't even put here that sounds so crazy! i woke up little! but scared to say. oh dear. well, here goes, clicking on "submit".

While all of those symptoms give a pretty clear indication that there is some form of dissociation going on, they do not necessarily mean that a high scorer has DID. The test states that scores above 30 are *associated* with DID... which means that the majority of people with DID have scores above 30, but a score above 30 does necessarily mean that you have it. My understanding is that for DID to be given as a diagnosis someone has to meet the criteria listed in the DSM-IV (sorry, I don't have those criteria handy right now.)
I don't like the DES scale myself, simply because it is so subjective. What do they mean by 'always'? Every single minute of every single day? Once a day? How can anybody accurately quantify an experience on an eleven point scale that goes from 'never' to 'always', and how can anyone ensure that there is consistency in the way that different people rate their experiences? What is 'always' to one may be another persons 'seldom'.
My other gripe with it is exactly what you pointed out - many of the items can be related to other things which have nothing to do with DID at all. For isntance, not being able to hear what is said to you can be caused by an auditory processing disorder and hyperfocus can be related to giftedness or ADHD.

To me it just seems like such a messy test, with too much room for misinterpretation and over and / or under reporting of symptom intensity.
I do think it seems clear that you have some form of dissociative symptoms going on for you, which makes perfect sense given your history of trauma, but I would be really hesitant to say 'yes, you have DID' based on these results. Personally I much favor the DSM as a diagnostic tool.

PS: Sorry this sounds so standoffish.

Dear Dancing,, Thanks for sharing your concerns, and the ways you have approached them. It has given me a new insight into Dissociation incidents of my own. One thing I would say from my own experience, is: try not to leap to the worst possible conclusion (catastrophic thinking). I found Luce's insights to be extreemly cogent, relevant and well thought out. Here's hoping that you resolve these disturbances with a minimum of cost and effort~! And may I mention my old favorite for cultivating insight ? Mindfulness~.

(((Dancing)))
I'm sure if you went in to see someone and explained your money situation,
they would be understanding and maybe either see you on a scaling fee scale...
or refer you to someone who will.

It is a miracle that I have survived thus far and I strive to help others see miracles in every day life.

First take a breather just because the DES says you got so many out of 100 does "Not" mean you have DID. that DES on line isnt actually the one that is given now. I compared the test I took last month to the one on line. the new DES is different and has different test questions to reflect todays standards, knowledge of the disorder.

Plus the DES doesnt just test for DID. it also tests for "all" the other dissociative disorders too. then when a computer scores it, and in conjunction with meeting with a psychiatrist or psychologist for an interview, interview test and other tests a psychiatrist can tell you which Dissociative disorder you have.

Example

these things you listed fit other Dissociative disorders too like derealization, depersonalization, dissociative amnesia, dissociative fugue,

Some of what you posted fits the type of dissociation that people with depression, bipolor and PTSd have.

Some of what you posted fits the normal dissociation that everyone has at one time or another.

Some of what you posted could be from all kinds of medical problems like dehydration, sleep deprivation, anemia and many more things.

the only way to know for sure what kind of dissociation you have and what caused/causing it is to see your medical doctor to rule out medical problems and then see a psychiatrist or psychologist and go through their tests.

Each situation is different. the hows and whys all those things add up to being DID for me would be different than for me. for example my abuser did ba da bing ba da bang and your abuser if you were may not have done the bang but not the ba da bing.

the whys and hows those things add up to DID is different for everyone with DID.

suggest -when you see your new pdoc ask for testing and ask them your whys. then you will know the answers to all your whys and hows based on how they pertain to whats going on with you.

whew! thanx everybody. gonna back off of "freak out" mode! yes, i truly believe there is a great amount of dissociation going on in this ole brain, but true DID? i just don't know. things are "stirring" in here tho and i need to explore this more. the new pdoc is all i have and she is very sweet and concerned, and not ruling out DID at this point. will see her next wednesday.

Luce, i'll check out the DSM-IV. thanks. geesh, i know better than to take these online tests. but most of what i posted were "always" answers, but yes, there was too much of a gap (11 gradients?!) between "never" and "always". thanks again all.

P.S. here's a very good link that does a good job of explaining things... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissoci...ntity_disorder

as i suspected, i still fall in the depersonalization/derealization category, with possible dips into the did area but just not sure to my satisfaction yet. as far as the DES test, it said:

"Tests such as the DES provide a quick method of screening subjects so that the more time-consuming structured clinical interview can be used in the group with high DES scores."

back to the drawing board...

Dancing, DID is not a destination, it is a spectrum. There are different stages of DID. The absolute is Multiplepersonalities...but all of the depersonalization, daydreaming, zoning out, etc are all on the other end of the DID.
Everyone dissociates to some degree...road hypnosis, daydreams, etc. The DID is just a mpore defined and intense version of normal...it is more severe than everyday daydreaming. It is honed and used as an escape, normally in childhood...when things are too much for the little brain to deal with.
There are varying stages, or degrees of DID. I hope this has helped in some way...gland know we are here tolisten and offer support....hugs.

well i don't know if u where asking how we feel or what we ex......so this is what i do sometimes

1 the whole world seems like a gaint movie...like nouthing is real.
2 i go num...no feelings ...like no happy, mad,sad, but i can feel sometimes
3 i lose time....i call it blacking-out......i can sometimes keep it from happing becouse right befor my sight starts dimming around the eggaes
4 i'll wake up someplace that i didn't fall asleep.
5 and ya sometimes i don't feel pain....(i dissociate a way from the pain)
like when i broke my arm i didn't know it was broke untill mom saw the bone and screamed

theres other thangs that happen to but anyway i can't say why thay say its dd...but your not alone in being confused about it all so am i and alot of others...just wanted to let you know your not alone

thank you all so much. i need time to process this information. it is all so confusing as i am "revealing" things to myself now that have me confused, scared, puzzled. and darnit, don't think i will rule out alters yet. head is so so fuzzy a lot. things going on "below the surface".

today at work my client flew into me as soon as i walked in the door (she's in constant pain and was up all night and takes it out on us aides who see her) and *i* "left", went somewhere inside my mind. was numb the whole time, looking at myself from far away. somehow got through the 5 hours, came home, took a couple pills and went to bed to escape.

am so sick of running, hiding. but have opened up a can of worms i just don't understand.

anyway, thank you all so much. this means everything to me to be able to share and to know "love" and rare understanding for the first time despite my imperfections.

Dancing with you in the confusion...many hugs and support...

yes, Dancing, it is all rather confusing.

for me, on the loss of time, it's not so much zoning out or blacking out but just finding that things have happened and I have NO memory of it. like my husband will remind me of a conversation we had and I have absolutely no recollection of having it while he can remember where we were and what both of us said.. that sort of thing. I'm totally unaware of it when it happens. though, I don't generally find myself in clothes/places and having no memory of why I'm there or how I got there. I might not remember the getting there though. if that makes sense.

saw the pdoc on wednesday morning. she is such a sweet, caring lady and admitted to having abuse issues herself. we talked and i cried. still wearing the sunglasses too.

i gave her my answers to the DES test. we discussed these and how D.I.D. is affecting me in the context of what i told her...no missing time, no "coming to" wearing things i don't remember buying, etc. but the compartmentalization i do has split me into many "segments", with so many completely different attributes to each, and how "i" dig deep down sometimes to bring things out to deal with different situations. anyway. am probably in major denial but just can't and refuse to go there yet.

told her i can't afford the $38/hr. for a T. so she doubled my celexa to stop/ease up the nightmares and flashbacks (yes, celexa not only treats depression, but PTSD as well).

she is going to have me talk to the T that holds my groups who also was the one that i would have seen for D.I.D. i wondered why she pulled me aside after the last group to discuss D.I.D. (turns out the pdoc had told her about me). they are all so very kind at this state facility. all the fancy docs over the years did me no good whatsoever. i was here from 1995 to 2006 until they bumped me because i was "stable" ????? but it's like coming home and i feel safe again, and i trust them. wow.

she told me: "you need to start telling the pain, hurt, feelings and thoughts that are coming back to 'stay over there' ". (not to ignore, but to be in control of them finally, and put them in their place, away from me!) she said she knew it was very painful at first to look at everything but then the healing will come. that i need to focus on being in the "now", not in the past. and when the healing takes effect, *i* will be as "one" again.

and she knows about dear dps's chats and her outlines (no names, no web site information given to her at all) and told me to continue to study them, especially the ones on grounding.

so, a little bit more courage to continue. without all of you though, i couldn't do this. and i am nowhere near as traumatized as what i read here. i pray for all of us that we may someday, as my dear pdoc says: "...be happy, ....know love".