[here today]

I was diagnosed 4 years ago with DDNOS and PDNOS. I usually post in the PDNOS section, because that’s what I usually think I have the most trouble with – socially anxious, not comfortable with people, don’t understand that, anxious and self-isolating. Mostly in public I understand that I appear “nice”.

I am currently terrified. I have/had two protector parts – a male “antisocial” and a “female snotty *****”. Female snotty ***** tends to get into conflicts with other females, doesn’t care about them, is mean, etc. Usually I keep her shut down. She/I acted out once several years ago when my T was pregnant and in the last months hadn’t really been up to “being there” with me. I felt . . . cheated? abandoned? not sure, really . . . and tried to address my concern, felt rejected, and female snotty complained in what I’m sure was a haughty and disrespectful manner.

My T responded that she felt hurt. That stopped us in our tracks, concerned for T’s hurt, not ours. It was the last session before she went on maternity leave. I/we processed the incident with the substitute T and then with T when she came back. But basically female snotty did/does not trust T so I/we went forward with the therapy, with basically good results and integration of all known parts, except for female snotty, until recently when female snotty has resurfaced. T’s father passed away a couple of months ago and, once again, T has not been fully emotionally available and, once again, I feel that she is not taking full responsibility for that (may be unable to take full responsibility, due to her own shutdown because of grief?). My attempts to talk about problems T and I have been having have not gone well. At the end of my rope in one recent session, I said “F. . . you” and my T responded by first getting judgmental about my language and then she “crumpled” and said “I feel so hurt. I’m not going to be helpful to you for the rest of the session. You don’t have to pay me.” I just sat there. Maybe my T wanted me to leave but she hadn’t said that. Eventually we talked and at the end of the session she said that “we” (the T and I) we OK as far as our relationship went. Again my concern was for my T, whom I had hurt, not me. My guilt has gotten overwhelming at times. I have nowhere to turn, no one to turn to (I might hurt them, too, is how it feels).

I am so scared – maybe it’s something “good” to come to consciousness, but I’m not at all sure. And T doesn’t know what to do next either. She suggested that I look into a general treatment facility here locally that does not accept personality disorders or trauma as primary problems. I may have even scared them off in the interview, but if not I would have to pay out of pocket, and there is no guarantee, of course.

I tried to “renegotiate” two friendships last December when I realized that I was codependent and caretaking and both people decided to terminate the relationships rather than renogotiate. My daughter cut me off several years ago, my son is busy with his own life (thank goodness), and I feel alone in the universe. Feel like maybe I’m integrating female snotty – felt this afternoon like “I can be mean as a snake”, owning some of the energy maybe that I usually distance my self from – and that I feel is horrible, so I must be horrible, too.

Any ideas or suggestions?

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by here today

I was diagnosed 4 years ago with DDNOS and PDNOS. I usually post in the PDNOS section, because that’s what I usually think I have the most trouble with – socially anxious, not comfortable with people, don’t understand that, anxious and self-isolating. Mostly in public I understand that I appear “nice”.

I am currently terrified. I have/had two protector parts – a male “antisocial” and a “female snotty *****”. Female snotty ***** tends to get into conflicts with other females, doesn’t care about them, is mean, etc. Usually I keep her shut down. She/I acted out once several years ago when my T was pregnant and in the last months hadn’t really been up to “being there” with me. I felt . . . cheated? abandoned? not sure, really . . . and tried to address my concern, felt rejected, and female snotty complained in what I’m sure was a haughty and disrespectful manner.

My T responded that she felt hurt. That stopped us in our tracks, concerned for T’s hurt, not ours. It was the last session before she went on maternity leave. I/we processed the incident with the substitute T and then with T when she came back. But basically female snotty did/does not trust T so I/we went forward with the therapy, with basically good results and integration of all known parts, except for female snotty, until recently when female snotty has resurfaced. T’s father passed away a couple of months ago and, once again, T has not been fully emotionally available and, once again, I feel that she is not taking full responsibility for that (may be unable to take full responsibility, due to her own shutdown because of grief?). My attempts to talk about problems T and I have been having have not gone well. At the end of my rope in one recent session, I said “F. . . you” and my T responded by first getting judgmental about my language and then she “crumpled” and said “I feel so hurt. I’m not going to be helpful to you for the rest of the session. You don’t have to pay me.” I just sat there. Maybe my T wanted me to leave but she hadn’t said that. Eventually we talked and at the end of the session she said that “we” (the T and I) we OK as far as our relationship went. Again my concern was for my T, whom I had hurt, not me. My guilt has gotten overwhelming at times. I have nowhere to turn, no one to turn to (I might hurt them, too, is how it feels).

I am so scared – maybe it’s something “good” to come to consciousness, but I’m not at all sure. And T doesn’t know what to do next either. She suggested that I look into a general treatment facility here locally that does not accept personality disorders or trauma as primary problems. I may have even scared them off in the interview, but if not I would have to pay out of pocket, and there is no guarantee, of course.

I tried to “renegotiate” two friendships last December when I realized that I was codependent and caretaking and both people decided to terminate the relationships rather than renogotiate. My daughter cut me off several years ago, my son is busy with his own life (thank goodness), and I feel alone in the universe. Feel like maybe I’m integrating female snotty – felt this afternoon like “I can be mean as a snake”, owning some of the energy maybe that I usually distance my self from – and that I feel is horrible, so I must be horrible, too.

Any ideas or suggestions?

any suggestions yes...

the first is talk with the therapist that tells you when she is feeling hurt by your directly attacking her with foul language...(I mean the "you" as int he whole you since you feel like you are going through integrating this part of you) it may be that the therapist is trying to show by example that things you say and do, affect others (which is a popular therapy approach for people with personality disorders like antisocial, borderline and others in that category of mental disorders) sometimes people with that category of mental disorders they dont always know when what they say and do is harming others. so the sort of new therapy approach to when a client treats a treatment provider like you did, is to acknowledge the negative behavior and show or tell the client, that kind of negative behavior hurts. some people do take it like you did where they begin to worry about saying that hurt the therapist, oh crap now if I say anything Ill hurt the therapist, she wont like me and other things along that line of thought.. When that happens a therapist needs to know about it so they can clarify they were trying to make a point by example and will probably say they are glad you got the point and talk more about how you can handle your anger and frustration in a more appropriate way. even if its not you fully aware state of mind that other state of mind you is probably listening (otherwise the snotty one would not have known anything that was going on before she took control, and acted this way with the therapist. she had to be getting her information about what was going on from somewhere right and since she's the only other one left its just you and her. so most likely shes listening in on what you are saying doing and feeling, in order to know when to take over and mouth off)

so talk with your therapist, let her know you get the point mouthing off at her hurts her and so if you mouth off at others in the same way it will hurt others in your life too. that now you want to make sure you dont hurt her and other again how can you do that so you dont have to worry so much about therapists feelings.

another suggestion something that might help with you feeling abandoned alone because your therapist has to deal with the death of her father....think about how you would feel if you were dealing with a death of someone you cared about and then you had to go to your job and do your job through all of that, that comes with this kind of thing....your concentration level is going to be off, you are going to be moody, things that wouldnt normally affect you will, unbelievable deep sadness/anger/ anxiety....all those things that come from dealing with a death of a loved one...when its thought of this way its easier to understand where the therapist is coming from and less apt to take things personally and maybe you will feel less abandoned/alone by the therapist.

good luck with the general treatment facility, even if they dont deal directly with a set mental disorder they can be very helpful in helping you to learn things that can help you deal with even those mental disorder specific problems you may have...usually even when you have a treatment provider that works with set mental disorders directly those same things you learn help in other ways too. example grounding is directly related to work with people with dissociation problems but is also effective with anxiety, depression PTSD and any other general problem there is. even medications for one thing has more than one purpose....most medical books will tell you the name of a therapy or medication and all the diverse general and specific problems that tool treats. my own opinion if you go in with an open mind you will learn some new things that work in general that will work directly with your problems.

[Luce]

I am so disappointed at your Ts response to the 'f you' comment. Maybe it was because she was grieving and wasn't up to being stronger, idk. I think it would have been so much easier if she had been able to accept the anger for what it was - your (or the snotty one's) way of protecting you. That wasn't so scary or so misplaced, and seeing it for what it was had the potential to opening you and t up for some healing conversations.

So, from what you have said, it seems this protector part (snotty *****) deals with situations where you feel rejected or abandoned. Seems like she is able to express the anger that naturally goes hand in hand with rejection or abandonment, but when she does so you are left to deal with the aftermath of the hurt people left behind in her wake. As a result of that it seems like you perceive snotty's anger to be even more damaging and 'bad' than it really is, and thus dissociate yourself even further from her feelings... which in turn increases the divide between you.

I don't really have any advice for you, except to say that this snotty b* has got your back. Sounds like she has been doing her best to stick up for you, but hasn't quite got the hang of tact or restraint yet. She sounds like someone who would be good to have on your team, though.

So I do have a suggestion, I guess. Instead of shutting her down, maybe you could get to know her a little better, get her on your side a bit. She's got your back, whether you like it or not. Maybe you could learn how to work together better as a team, so that you've got her back covered too.

[Claritytoo]

I think the misunderstanding goes both ways. The one you call "snotty b****" is a protector. Her approach to perceived threatening situations is that of someone maybe in their teens. I think it would help if you acknowledged her as being a protector and explain to her that you don't deal with feelings of abandonment by verbally attacking people. Thank the "snotty B" for protecting you for all these years. Ask what her name is, She may like "Snotty B" but I think not. Explain that hurt feelings are ok and explain how you deal with them in the present. Include her in your life instead of stuffing her down. Let her know what the rules are for your system. Let her know she is part of a system. This approach helped some of my angry ones. They can be angry in my head and say what they want but we have rules about what we do and say in the world. They understand the rules and it works for everyone in our system. I hope things work out. One last thing. Therapist are only human. They may not always meet out needs at the time we need them. But as long as they aren't trying to hurt us intentionally, and you have a good relationship with your t, I would just keep in mind they are only human and sometimes have a bad day just like we do. Take care.

[here today]

Thanks so much, everybody. I did enter the treatment facility and have been wrapped up in that the last couple days. It means a lot to me that you all responded. I think the program at the facility will be OK.

Main thing I think I learned is to tolerate that my T's feelings are her feelings. And also, clearly, she provided an example that hurt feelings, though painful, can be tolerated (something important for me as my "wounded narcissism/ego" is just getting functional).

And, yeah, I am feeling a bit more friendly toward female snotty, beginning to understand that she does (intend to) have my back. How we work together as a team? Already at the treatment facility I have stood up for myself in somewhat strong but not over-the-top ways. Wasn't really aware of her as separate, either. A start, hopefully.

[Claritytoo]

You sound very positive. I am glad to hear you are doing well. All the best going forward.

[tlfx0826]

Read the book the untethered soul

Calling out your personalities and remembering that it is just a part of YOU. Giving them Identities does not help. I've learned from experience.

Finding a balance is tough but its possible.

You can win this battle within yourself.