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Default Mar 04, 2021 at 05:34 PM
  #1
Since I was a young child I've dissociated (I'm 58 now). I have always criticized myself for doing so...that somehow it's wrong or weird. But in therapy lately, we've been discussing dissociation not as something I shouldn't do, but that it is actually my "safe place."

I'm wondering what others' thoughts on this are. Do you feel safe when you dissociate, or not? What are your goals with regard to your dissociation? Do you hope to make it go away entirely, or do you hope to integrate dissociation into your self?

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Default Mar 04, 2021 at 06:02 PM
  #2
While actually in a dissociative state I felt safe but the truth was I was more vulnerable because I wasn’t present. Back when ptsd was still an issue for me I dissociated a lot. In a fugue I would leave my house and go walking in my pjs with nothing. I lived in a major metropolis so that was extremely dangerous. I was picked up by the police several times and because I wasn’t in reality and unable to respond I would be taken to hospitals. Once I came out of my dissociation it was quite scary. Not safe at all. I had to give my daughter and power of attorney to my parents until I got a better handle on it. Ptsd is no longer an issue and I no longer dissociate

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Default Mar 04, 2021 at 07:02 PM
  #3
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Originally Posted by Nammu View Post
While actually in a dissociative state I felt safe but the truth was I was more vulnerable because I wasn’t present. Back when ptsd was still an issue for me I dissociated a lot. In a fugue I would leave my house and go walking in my pjs with nothing. I lived in a major metropolis so that was extremely dangerous. I was picked up by the police several times and because I wasn’t in reality and unable to respond I would be taken to hospitals. Once I came out of my dissociation it was quite scary. Not safe at all. I had to give my daughter and power of attorney to my parents until I got a better handle on it. Ptsd is no longer an issue and I no longer dissociate

Fugue states are creepy - and potentially dangerous. It's good that you no longer have that happening. The last time I experienced a fugue state was one day about a year ago. Apparently, I had gone to the pharmacy, picked up a bottle of medication, and come home. The next day I panicked, thinking I'd forgotten my medication. I called the pharmacy, told them I'd be in to pick it up, and so on. The tech said, "You picked it up yesterday." I told her that no, I had not. I said I'd check my closet. Well, sure enough...there was the bottle of pills. But the sensation was not like normal forgetting, it was as though I had completely lost an afternoon, a black hole.


Strangely, some hours later I had a dim, far-away image appear in my mind of the tire of my car, apparently a memory as I had approached the car to get in and drive away from the pharmacy. Of all things, the tire. I never did recall the rest of the afternoon.

So yeah, fie to fugue states. But I'm wondering if anyone has the experience of dissociation (while still conscious of the body) feeling safer than so-called "reality."

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Default Mar 05, 2021 at 12:06 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by BethRags View Post
Since I was a young child I've dissociated (I'm 58 now). I have always criticized myself for doing so...that somehow it's wrong or weird. But in therapy lately, we've been discussing dissociation not as something I shouldn't do, but that it is actually my "safe place."

I'm wondering what others' thoughts on this are. Do you feel safe when you dissociate, or not? What are your goals with regard to your dissociation? Do you hope to make it go away entirely, or do you hope to integrate dissociation into your self?
considering here where I am dissociation is an automatic response where the brain does this flight or fight responses of panic then numbness, emotionless, poor judgement and so on because of a trigger I do not consider my dissociative problems to be a "safe place"

example using a common normal dissociation symptom. feeling numb where I dont feel my body and a bit foggy minded.

Im cooking dinner and being dissociated at the same time what happens. I can severely hurt myself (and have) because my judgement was impaired because I was dissociated. on top of that because I was feeling dissociated I did not fully register how severely I was hurt. I wasnt an alter, I was just slightly dissociated (foggy and not feeling my body)

my therapist has used that phrasing "safe place" but it was not meant for me to take it that its ok for me to do. she used the phrasing that my dissociation was a safe place as in ......past tense..... it was what my mind did long ago to save me from remembering and feeling the pain, memories and trauma of the extreme abuse I was under going at such a young age so that I could physically survive with out the pain, memories and trauma.

I can tell you that my therapist would in no way tell me that today its ok for me to purposely dissociate. for one thing its against her rules she lives by for being my therapist and for 2 if I was purposely causing myself to dissociate that in itself would invalidate my diagnosis of having dissociative disorders. my therapist would have no choice but to rediagnose me as having Fictitious Disorder Im posed on self (which is causing or pretending to have a mental problem)

not only that if I suddenly chose to live in dissociation instead of choosing to be grounded in the moment in my own mind that would be like I wasted all these many years of work learning to over come my dissociation problems.

ultimately we all need to make our own decisions of whether we want to keep working towards healing or not. for me and my therapist we would never use my dissociation as a safe place. we would instead find activities or items that help me to feel safe like taking a walk, playing with my pets, spending time with my family. holding a favorite stone, blanket and so on. my therapist and I do not consider my dissociation (feeling numb, spaced out and disconnected) as being a safe place.

my suggestion is talk with your treatment provider so that they can clarify with you what they meant and whether they meant that they wanted you to use your dissociation / become dissociated like a safe place.
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Default Mar 05, 2021 at 06:11 AM
  #5
I dissociate while being conscious but it can be dangerous for me because I'm much less able to react appropriately.

One time, I felt as though "I" was pushed to the back of my brain while a child self piloted my body because I stopped to pet a stray cat during a morning jog.

A stranger approached me and said he knew an old lady with some pet cats and I could feed and play with them. He took my hand and I went with him and he brought me to a deserted location while touching me more and more inappropriately. He was going to bring me to someone's home, he said. I think he thought we were intellectually impaired.

Adult me would have known something was wrong and never even talked with him but this child self did not. I was screaming inside my own head trying to tell this child self "danger!!!!! Run away!!!"

It could have gotten much worse but eventually I managed to force the child self to say "I want to go home" and he brought us back to near where he found us.
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Default Mar 05, 2021 at 12:59 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Quietmind 2 View Post
I dissociate while being conscious but it can be dangerous for me because I'm much less able to react appropriately.

One time, I felt as though "I" was pushed to the back of my brain while a child self piloted my body because I stopped to pet a stray cat during a morning jog.

A stranger approached me and said he knew an old lady with some pet cats and I could feed and play with them. He took my hand and I went with him and he brought me to a deserted location while touching me more and more inappropriately. He was going to bring me to someone's home, he said. I think he thought we were intellectually impaired.

Adult me would have known something was wrong and never even talked with him but this child self did not. I was screaming inside my own head trying to tell this child self "danger!!!!! Run away!!!"

It could have gotten much worse but eventually I managed to force the child self to say "I want to go home" and he brought us back to near where he found us.

This breaks my heart...
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Default Mar 05, 2021 at 07:22 PM
  #7
Thank you each for your replies. It sounds like what I'm referring to as "dissociation" is at least somewhat different than the explanations I'm reading on this thread. But then, I don't have alters in the sense that I have divided ego states with their own identities. My dissociation (which I would specifically term "derealisation") does not cause me to lose awareness of my body...it feels like my mind is sort-of locked safely away from perceived danger. It is, however, a reaction to anxiety.

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Default Mar 05, 2021 at 11:04 PM
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Thank you each for your replies. It sounds like what I'm referring to as "dissociation" is at least somewhat different than the explanations I'm reading on this thread. But then, I don't have alters in the sense that I have divided ego states with their own identities. My dissociation (which I would specifically term "derealisation") does not cause me to lose awareness of my body...it feels like my mind is sort-of locked safely away from perceived danger. It is, however, a reaction to anxiety.
I experience that kind of dissociation too (depersonalisation and derealisation) but don't find it safe because it gets very hard for me to function effectively because I get brain fog along with it.

I think it WAS safe /adaptive when I was younger but now it impairs my everyday life. I've bad anxiety top and that kind of dissociation serves as a circuit breaker from sky high anxiety but doesn't help me function effectively etc or respond adequately to dangerm
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Default Mar 06, 2021 at 11:57 AM
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I experience that kind of dissociation too (depersonalisation and derealisation) but don't find it safe because it gets very hard for me to function effectively because I get brain fog along with it.

I think it WAS safe /adaptive when I was younger but now it impairs my everyday life. I've bad anxiety top and that kind of dissociation serves as a circuit breaker from sky high anxiety but doesn't help me function effectively etc or respond adequately to dangerm

Yes- the brain fog is definitely extremely unpleasant. That's the part of dissociation that bogs me down...that weird, swimmy-brained sensation.

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Default Mar 06, 2021 at 12:47 PM
  #10
Hey BethRags, I know what you meant when talking about dissociation as your "safe place", but then I also read other posts, and I understood their feelings too...

I always felt before that my head was my "safe place", and I think that being inside my head meant being in my own inner world, but I think it also meant being dissociated for most of the time. I was always dissociated, my whole life, but I wasn't aware that there is anything different about it compared to other people. There were moments that people would tell me about me "being spacey", or "staring into distance", or not hearing them calling me, but they would always describe me as a nerd, or a bit of an eccentric, completely immersed into whatever I was doing.

However, that was before I had some sort of Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder breakdown, combined with depression, anxiety, panic, and then it turned into some other things, with Dissociative amnesia and identity confusion and identity alteration that followed...That was more than four years ago, and it all happened when I was already 40 yo. I was soooo disappointed by my inner world, or my inner life, to present as a safe place at first (for 40 years!lol), and then to betray me in such a way. I started learning about the hidden things, about events that happened to me, but I was not allowed to see them before, or had just partial information about them...It completely changed my relation to dissociation and to my inner life, or inner world, as I did not know what to expect any more. I didn't know who will come out next from what appeared as an endless dark ocean spreading in all direction, or what horrible memory will strike me...

That could be the difference, actually, between dissociation that is closer to some kind of daydreaming or a nice place to escape to (that I knew for most of my life), and dissociation that is within a mind that holds walls between memories and experiences and emotions. In this second case, once those walls start coming down, it can feel so unsafe and unknown and every time completely surprising, that the sense of familiarity with our own inner world seems almost lost.

I still dread dissociation a bit, even though when I felt badly triggered, I longed for it, as it can take the pain away, as a form of distraction; but it also steals my time, and does not let me plan the things that I need to do, par example when I have a deadline. I sit down to do something that I need to finish today, only to find myself hours later, with no work done, while I was doing something completely different. Or even stranger situation, when I remember that I have to do something, only to find I have already done it...like the whole paper written on my laptop, without any recollection on my part that I have been doing that.

This lack of panoramic view of my activities is something that I now find a bit disturbing, even though that is not new to me, that aspect was always there. That is why I learned to make lists very early on, in an attempt to organize myself better...I constantly make lists of things to be done, and I keep rewriting them until the things on the list are done. It is one way of keeping my mind on track, by introducing some sort of prioritization among the things that I do.

Best,
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Default Mar 06, 2021 at 04:06 PM
  #11
Good post, Alatea. (btw, I love your avatar.)


Upon reading this thread, I'm thinking that I need to make a distinction in my mind between dissociating and "escaping to a safe place." I do experience a degree of derealization when I "escape", but not to a point at which I cannot function. I think that dissociation (not counting a fugue state, which is stark and scary) is when (for example) I suddenly go completely blank during a therapy session while discussing a painful memory.


I definitely will discuss with my therapist the difference between my dissociation and my (what I call) "Alice in Wonderland" disconnection from an anxiety-producing situation.

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Default Mar 06, 2021 at 04:32 PM
  #12
Thank you Beth

And thank you for starting this thread.

It also motivated me to actually think about how my own relation to dissociation has changed in the meantime.

Best!
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Default Mar 10, 2021 at 11:38 AM
  #13
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Good post, Alatea. (btw, I love your avatar.)


Upon reading this thread, I'm thinking that I need to make a distinction in my mind between dissociating and "escaping to a safe place." I do experience a degree of derealization when I "escape", but not to a point at which I cannot function. I think that dissociation (not counting a fugue state, which is stark and scary) is when (for example) I suddenly go completely blank during a therapy session while discussing a painful memory.


I definitely will discuss with my therapist the difference between my dissociation and my (what I call) "Alice in Wonderland" disconnection from an anxiety-producing situation.
great idea, sometimes telling the difference between dissociating and willfully escaping to a safe place is confusing for me too and it was my own treatment provider who helped me to understand the difference.

here is what they told me that helped me to keep the two situations separated in my mind...

Dissociation is something that happens to me - an automatic uncontrollable reaction to a trigger.

Escaping to a safe place is willfully using my imagination, I have full control over what happens when. examples daydreaming / meditating / but still connected to body and mind.

dissociation - I experience something that reminds me of my traumas and suddenly Im feeling numb, spaced out and disconnected from myself. I have no control. it just happens based on triggers. I cant plan for it to happen on purpose and I cant make it happen. its something that happens .....to me. memory issues happen where I dont always know whats going on around me, sort of like that far away, muted sounds of having taken medications but yet no medications involved. my body had muted, slowed, stopped my bodily sensations and emotions. im functioning but more on automatic and when not dissociated cant remember everything that went on.

Escaping to a safe place - I can sit down, close my eyes or not and think about my safe place (a cabin in the woods) and I can control what is going on while I am mentally in this safe place in the woods at my cabin. sometimes its summer, sometimes its winter, sometimes Im collecting leaves other times Im sitting in my chair in front of the fire place. while in my safe place I can still be functioning fully aware of whats going on around me.

by the way I noticed you refer to your feeling as alice in wonderland. there is a physical health problem called alice in wonderland aka todds syndrome. the mental disorder counter part of this is dissociative macropsia. its one of the OSDD disorders labeling for when someone is in dissociation they have dissociation (an automatic uncontrollable response to a trigger) where they are suddenly numb, spaced out, disconnected from their body and mentally perceive things around them as being larger than they usually are. in dissociative macropsia its not like a safe place where you get to day dream / imagine things that feel safe to you, its more like feeling totally shut down emotionally and physically. when it happens to me I know where I am but unable to control thinking or perception. I see that picture over there as very large even though I know it really isnt all that large. I feel numb, just watching, not participating, not imagining being safe elsewhere and so on, just no emotions, no real thoughts, just watching and having the perception sight wise that everything around me is larger then usual. I know many people who call this "alice through the looking glass because they do not realize that there are two different disorders for this one physical (Todds Syndrome) and the other mental (dissociative Macropsia aka OSDD-Macropsia).

your treatment providers can do some testing to figure out if you have either kind. treatment for it is antidepressent /antianxiety/ antipsychosis meds for the mental form of this. and for the physical form (Todds Syndrome) theres medication like epilepsy and other neurological meds that can control the electrical impulses in the brain that is causing the problems. Im on antidepressant/ beta blockers for mine.
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Default Jun 11, 2021 at 01:46 PM
  #14
I now thank my dissociation for protecting me. Had everything I experienced since I was a baby entered my consciousness all at once, I would have lost my mind.

I do want to 'heal' from dissociation because these days, it makes life harder. For instance, I may dissociate if there's a difficult conversation to be had that might lead to consequences I won't like, for example the ending of a relationship. However, I now understand that if the only way a relationship can survive is by ignoring issues, it's not really meant to be and it would be healthier for all involved to be honest and go our separate ways if need be. I'm also no longer a baby who will die if she loses someone in her life. I'm now capable of looking after myself and asking for help when I need it. I don't need to cling to anyone for survival.
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