where to go from here

That's great that you had some success with calling him on his drama. The more you do that, the more you'll see what's really a problem, and what's just manipulative drama.

Mine's baseline seems to be thinly veiled anger. From what I understand, this is typical for someone with a passive aggressive personality. Mine also changed significantly personality-wise. It felt like it was overnight.

With my dh, I have no idea what the underlying cause for the change has been. I've considered (and still do some days) that he might have an early onset form of behavioral dementia, might have brain damage (this is a possibility from a significant medical issue, or the 10.5 hours of anesthesia he had as a result), mid life crisis, major depressive disorder, collapsed covert narcissist, and probably a few other possibilities too.

BUT here's the thing, whether this is a choice on his part, or something that he can't control, strong boundaries are still okay. They aren't mean, they're the way you take care of yourself in a relationship. This is really sad, but teenage DD once said about dh, "if he's going to act like a toddler having a tantrum, treat him like a toddler having a tantrum." . The worst part of that is that's she's right, because it works.

I hope you're doing okay today. He's certainly sounds challenging.

I have to say, this is all very helpful because I am coming to some interesting realizations, a lot of this behavior for my H is medical related, i.e. heart attack if he doesn't leave, suicidal if I am upset. There's also another thing he uses where over the past year exactly he's had several serious allergic reactions and other autoimmune type issues. So last summer we ended up in the ER with his lips/tongue swollen and since then he's had some significant episodes of tongue swelling, cheek swelling, eye swelling and the like. He also had this really severe case of pink eye that lasted several week and he is still on eye drops for over a month later. He did end up going to the allergist once but she couldn't find any specific cause, and he missed his other appointment for blood work after that and the follow up appointment. He also refuses to go see his GP. As you might imagine, he now blames the "stress" that being married to me is causing for all of these things. In a recent conversation he said to me that he's had more health issues over the past year then he has had in his life, and while he is careful not to say that I am the cause, he does certainly say that the stress he is under because he is so unhappy in his marriage to me is the cause. I realized how PA, or manipulative this is only yesterday. We were outside and had some people over to swim and then he ate something and part of his hand started to swell (thankfully it responded to benadryl like his reactions usually do) but I found myself getting really anxious that he was going to blame this "stress" and me for all this. And of course while he didn't say it directly he was so annoyed that this was happening to him and of course it was my fault.


It is only after thinking all of this through and going through this with you that I realize how wrong this behavior is. It is as if he isn't in control of his own life and being here with me and the kids is making him so sick he must leave. It is really unfortunate that I ever viewed this in a way where it could be MY fault. Especially since he refuses to go back to the doctor.


It is interesting that also with your DH that behavior changed somewhat suddenly. I didn't realize it at the time but if I go back and think at our interactions or see emails from a few years ago I am really surprised by how different he is. My H has a very difficult relationship with his parents that sort of put him behind from the start but the mid-life crisis/major depressive disorder definitely could be the culprit here too. Your DD is totally on point about the tantrums. I definitely need to be having these strong boundaries moving forward whether we stay together or not. I used to joke that life with my H was "never boring" as a good thing, and true it is still never boring but in quite the opposite way. Who knows what today will bring...I find myself nervous to start interacting with him for the day. He tends to sleep very late and be most hard to deal with in the morning so I mostly try to stay out of his way. It is times like these that I'm sorry I work from home, I missing having an office I could escape to!

Yes! You seem to be seeing these things very quickly!

It's crazy how easy it is to fall into this kind of pattern, and common too. It's magical once you remember where you end and they begin - and stop taking responsibility and blame for their stuff.

With my dh and others like him, there seems to be this pattern of external blame, rather than internal adjustment. Maybe you said something along those lines? With mine, whatever is upsetting him could be fixed by something external changing - a coworker being less incompetent, the government to work a certain way, the neighbor to mow his lawn differently... The correction is rarely in him having to adjust, compromise, and adapt.

I probably sound very hard nosed throughout this thread, but much of this is where we go when he pushes an issue. What DD said is really a lot like the positive reinforcement you use with kids. Reward the good, ignore the bad, but sometimes you have to stand your ground. As long as he's being generally respectful, there's no problem. He's got so many issues, that he can't seem to hold up his end of a good marriage at this point, but it's not unreasonable for me to expect to be treated with dignity and respect. And I'm very compassionate towards his problems when he's not trying to fling blame around or be manipulative.

I also have those moments of dread, and feel like I'm walking on eggshells, wondering what he going to try next. With PA behaviors, it's pretty common for them to mentally regroup and then come at you stronger than before. If he does that, be prepared and don't let him rattle you.

It's so great that you seem to be feeling more empowered. You're his wife, not some side-chick, and it's reasonable to expect to be treated that way.

Hang in there

It really is. Last night my middle child couldn't sleep so I left it to my H to sort out as I was really tired. I feel asleep for awhile and when I woke up my H had come into our room and he was very irritated at me. Turns out that my son couldn't sleep because he was scared of tornadoes and this is something that happens where we live and has happened close to where we live destroying my sons school when he was little. But, according to my H, you guessed it, it was my fault my son is scared of tornadoes because I also have weather anxiety and am scared of tornadoes and it rubbed off on my son according to my H. In the moment I didn't really say anything back to him but when I thought about it this morning I was thinking this is just another example of my H blaming me for everything. I'm not perfect and doing the best I can, but I think my H is just annoyed he had to deal with our child or it just gave him another opportunity to blame everything on me instead.

It really resonates with me what you are talking about with external blame rather than internal adjustment. With my H as well, it is never about anything he can do for himself to fix an issue, it is always about blaming someone else for it and focusing all his energy on that or in general on the unfairness of life, i.e. these people are rich and don't have to work for it, why can't I have that sort of thing. I am also a big believer that people in general do have a certain level of control over what they think and feel. And my H of course is not. Everything is always his parents' fault for not raising him right, or my fault and he's just sort of lost at sea. I have had these conversations with him where I express this but he really doesn't buy it.


I think he is ready to come at me stronger. Yesterday he had a meeting with one of his therapists and while they don't agree with him exactly they always end up telling him to take action rather than sitting and complaining about his life which effects mine. So he said he wanted to have a "conversation" last night and I pulled my own PA on it and told him I was too tired. The truth is I don't want to hear what he has to say, but I will have to at some point. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your listening and feedback, it has helped so much and continues to help me re-frame and understand what is going on in my life. I hope everything is going well with you!

It's nice to hear that this has helped you. I spent a number of years trying to understand what was going on, and doing things that probably made matters worse. When I finally honed in on passive aggression, it was very hard to understand, and a lot of the information that's out there isn't very good. In that Angry Smile book, they talk about how everybody knows what PA is, but it's hard to define and nearly impossible to prove. There are things dh does that I feel fairly confident he does on purpose to cause problems, but if I told anyone, they would think I was paranoid. Dealing with a PA person can be a lonely and draining place.

You did something very smart! When you told him you were tired and that you would talk another time, that may have been one of the best things you could have done. Talk to him on your time, not his. When he gears up to talk to you, there's a chance that he's wound up and raring to go in a potentially negative direction. If you postpone, even for just a short time, it may interupt his flow and make for a less agro conversation later. This could be a healthy boundary for you, because it's meeting a need for you without denying anything to him. The conversation isn't shut down, it's just postponed. Sometimes with my dh, if he's getting on a roll, I'll take a bathroom break- even five minutes can interupt his flow enough to make for a calmer conversation.

Mine's been pretty mellow this week. He's got some medical tests coming up next week, so that seems to be stressing him out and causing him to shut down a bit.

Hang in there, you are doing so well dealing with him, and more importantly taking care of yourself.

It really has helped me a whole lot and I am so thankful for all of your advice! Yes, you are so right, it is very hard to prove and everything can always be open to some other, more positive interpretation. I did decide to talk to him last night on my own terms, and we talked for several hours in what I thought at the time was a very telling talk, i.e. that he couldn't tell me what he wanted. It was "lets just get divorced", then "lets separate for six months", then "I love you unconditionally", then "I just need space", but when pressed on it I asked him if from his perspective our romantic relationship was over. He couldn't really answer. At the time he said maybe we should see a therapist to help us and I agreed. However, what is so disconcerting to me is that this afternoon we were in a car on the way to get our kids and he now told me his ideal scenario is us being what he called "all but divorced" for six months where he dates other people but we still live together and co-parent (and I could date other people too which I would not be ready to do anytime soon even if I did feel done with this relationship). And of course he told me that part right as the kids were about to get in the car so I couldn't really address it, but I do feel like I have whiplash. Then the other part is things like finding him on the shower floor because he is so depressed he can't even stand up. Maybe I should consider separating and living together to not have to mess with finances and disrupting the kids, but if that was the case I would have to have ironclad boundaries in place. I think I would have to take away each and every perk of our relationship and make it stay that way and it would be really hard. Definitely something to think about. I feel very rushed by him, I'd really like to see a therapist myself first to work through all of this.


I'm glad you have had a more mellow week. I really hope it stays that way for you and you too are focusing on taking care of yourself. If there's one thing I want to do for my daughter it will be to teach her (and hopefully show her too) to not put herself last like I have because she will be so much better for it.

Wow, you are dealing with so much

Your situation is just so sad for you and your kids. He wants what he wants when he wants it, and he doesn't seem to be very concerned with anyone's feelings but his own.

I feel the same way about my dd- wanting her to understand what I didn't. And for her to never end up allowing herself to be mistreated, especially by the person who is supposed to love and care for her more than anyone.

Mine always tried to get his shots in right at the last minute so that the conversation is forced to end with him in a position of power and control. That's just manipulative and irritating beyond belief.

Do you possibly have anyone you trust who you could share some of this with IRL? A friend or family member? In retrospect, one of the biggest regrets for me was that I essentially covered for dh for years, (thinking he had a medical problem and that it would get better), so when things went really bad at one point, it was a dead end with no one who knew what was going on- no one to turn to and talk to. It's just something to think through. Only you know what's right for you, but I wish I had someone who had known what was going on all along, and who could possibly offer support. In other words, maybe don't protect him at the expense of yourself.

Hope you are doing okay.

I know, it really is sad isn't it? I have told my best friend so that has been a great resource and I am looking for an individual therapist for me so hopefully that pans out soon. I have to tell you, I am so so angry. I wish my "Angry Smile" book had arrived, but it couldn't be delivered fast, because I'd love to decode my H's insane behavior. After the complete turn around I mentioned above, he also is telling me things like our entire relationship was a lie, that he never loved me and always had doubts. I know I shouldn't engage with him, but when I showed him cards and letters he wrote me saying quite the contrary, about me being his one true love and not being able to live without me, he tells me he was trying to make it work and didn't mean it. He's also telling me things like having 3 kids under 4 was not hard, it is not hard being a single women in our group of friends at the school, and that I constantly bad mouth him to others (which is completely not the case, I am not perfect but that is something I do not do). When pressed for examples he told me once I told someone he had a fear of flying...I know it is an overused buzzword but I feel like he's gaslighting me. If I am to believe that he never loved me or wanted to be with me but stayed with me for 17 years, I don't know how I could trust myself or anyone else ever again so maybe that is the intended effect. Like you say, I think he is trying regain his power and control.
He's also telling me that I "won't have any trouble dating".

I really do not feel like dealing with divorce right now and separating our assets, so I feel like it is probably best to separate with boundaries that way I can keep my kids with me and then go see a lawyer and figure out the best way to protect myself. Luckily he went out of town for a few days otherwise I feel like I would explode. I think anger is a good next stage of this process.


Hope that you had a relaxing weekend and everything is going well and calmly on your end.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. No one should have to deal with anything like this.

I understand that sometimes there are a lot of moving parts and the answers aren't simple. Please take care of yourself first and foremost as you navigate this bizaar situation. Have you looked at the book Codependent No More? That might be a good choice for you, especially if you are remaining in the situation for the time being. Reading that book was very empowering for me. It made me realize just how much power and control I have, helped me establish strong boundaries, and taught me that you can heal yourself while living with a disordered person. Ideally, my life would look different than it does, but... Lots of moving parts and I'm a work in progress.

That's good that your friend knows. Don't protect his disorder at the expense of yourself.

It sounds like your dh may fall on that cluster b spectrum (narcissism, borderline, etc) and it's pretty common for them to flop back and forth about whether they love you, or that you've been the worst person who ever walked the face of the earth. I think that falls under 'splitting.'. It's not you, it's the broken child in him turning to whatever makes him feel the most powerful and in control in that moment.

Enjoy your time without him. Our house tends to be so smooth and peaceful when mine's not here, which is just so sad. DD commented that it's weird, because much of the time, he's just sitting in his chair, like an angry zombie watching videos on his phone, so how does he negatively affect the house? It's just the stormy mood he takes everywhere he goes. A big part of healing is that whole thing about not allowing others to dictate our feelings and moods, but then again, as human beings, we are hardwired to pick up on these things from others, so it's natural. I was reading an article the other day about how we have built in "BS sensors" that allow us to pick up on when other people are being disingenuous- and yet counselors often give the benefit of the doubt that's counter to those internal sensors. We should always listen to our own gut feelings.

Take care of yourself. You deserve that much and more.

Thank you, I am actually sort of excited because I have found a therapist I am meeting with next week and I am hopeful she will be able to guide me a little better and also help me focus on what I want. I've never attended therapy for myself, only before in the context of marriage counseling which was all about my H. It is funny how I have gone through life not only never thinking about what I want, but also thinking that asserting your wants is selfish, even though it isn't at all. I think that is something that is very common with women so I hope she can help me with that aspect too and I do look forward to the personal growth in that aspect. I am going to order Codependent No More as well, and as an ebook so I can read it whenever I want! The splitting idea is very insightful, my H has a ton of childhood trauma and issues with his family and parents so this rings true for him and I do think it will help me deal with him.

Also, when you say that about your house being smooth and peaceful without him, and that when your H is there he is like a zombie watching videos, that literally could be my situation, if you substitute videos for playing videogames. But it is the same thing. It is like gloom descends upon the house and we all have to walk on eggshells. My H used to joke that he was like Charlie Brown in that a dark cloud follows him around but it is very true most of the time.


I really cannot thank you enough for continuing to have this conversation with me and passing along your pearls of knowledge and wisdom, they have helped me so much through this very difficult time.

I'll be curious to hear what you think about Codependent No More. The quote above feels very codependent. I have lived a great deal of my life that way as well.

There's a free printable pdf workbook for CNM somewhere online (at least there use to be). That was also helpful to work through once I'd read the book. If you are interested, and can't find it, let me know and I'll look for it. It seems like it was available from a codependency group out of Tulsa or somewhere near there.

I'm really happy if this has been helpful to you. It's taken a lot of time and energy to get to this point, if the experience can help someone else in some way, that's wonderful.

Hope you are good.

Yes, so I finished Codependent No More. It was very interesting but I definitely only identify with the part that is talking about never thinking about what you want. A lot of the other stuff was pretty foreign to me and I do feel lucky that is the case. Either way it was very interesting reading and I actually think my H has a very codependent relationship with his father so that was enlightening to put the pieces together on that. My copy of Angry Smile finally arrived today and I am very excited to delve into it. We've reached a status quo more or less here for now but I can't wait to read all about the PA behaviors and how to better deal with them, I think it will end up helping me a lot!

That's probably a good thing if you don't identify much with codependency. Hopefully that means that you have boundaries and a sense of self that are still intact.

Hope you find the other book useful. I thought it was one of those overall good reads- something you can apply to life in general, whether a close relationship, a work relationship, or any other. It a strange topic, one that's very common, and yet seems to fly under the radar much of the time.

I am going to use Angry Smile as my guidebook from now on. LOL. I am still working my way through it but I just finished the chapter on "Counter-Passive Agressive" behavior and I find the whole thing pertinent and fascinating.

I just had my first visit with my new therapist yesterday and even though I probably could have been talking to a brick wall as long as someone listened to me and validated what I was saying I found it very helpful. I think Angry Smile is helpful to me in trying to decode and respond to the way my husband communicates. Some of it I do think is this passive aggressive way of dealing with things coupled with he doesn't know what he wants. For example, in the span of 24 hours I hear from him that me being nice to him may not be enough to save him or our relationship vs. we should see this psychiatrist to help us with end of marriage discussions. Maybe in his mind those two things aren't mutually exclusive but it gives me whiplash. I still have no idea what is going to happen but my therapist encouraged me to really put down boundaries in terms of (1) not tolerating my husband's disrespectful behavior and calling him out on it in the moment and (2) in changing how I am acting towards him, i.e. still care-taking. If he doesn't want to be married, then I shouldn't give him the benefits. It is definitely something to think about. I was expressing to her how hard it is to try and heal a relationship and/or live with someone who acts like they hate you. It is so challenging for me and I worry that I somehow will become accustomed to and accept the way he acts towards me.


How are things with you lately? I cannot think you enough for all the literature recommendations and thoughts, they still continue to help me in this very difficult time.

It's great to hear that you're getting something out of the book. It's the one book that I wish I'd found a few years earlier. Hopefully you can implement some of the ideas and change your situation for the better. Even if it doesn't change the dynamic with your dh, maybe it will at least give you a sense of better boundaries with him.

Early on, and without knowing better, I inadvertently did so many things opposite of counter PA, and made things much worse. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, believing that he was as interested in fixing things and being more cohesive, even though he wasn't making efforts in that direction- I begged, talked, consoled, cajoled, enabled, etc. and in the end, all that happened was that I lost my power in the relationship, and he doubled down on his.

That's good advice from the counselor. Hopefully she turns out to be very helpful to you. There's just something really disconnected about how they (yours and mine both) seem to think that they should be able to have their cake and eat it too. The scenarios are a little different with my dh, but the underlying message is similar- he wants what he wants, and there isn't much room for compromise. Mine, anyway, is very much like a child. One who over idealizes how certain people should cater to his whims and wants, without seeing that it's not realistic or fair, or requires some effort on his part. It's very immature thinking.

It sounds like your dh bounces around a lot too- mentally and emotionally. DD and I say that we never know who's going to walk into the room from one hour to the next- and it's true. I don't invest or engage in dh's words a whole lot because he can be so scattered. I listen with respect and compassion, register what he says, but words are just words and he can talk until he's blue in the face and nothing will ever change. Actions matter, and he's not currently someone who is able to take much initiative to do productive things- at least not with the other people in the house.

It's really good to get the update from you. It would be interesting to hear how things might change once you take a different approach, either with counter PA, or on the therapist's advice. You're doing a great job being proactive and valuing yourself!

As for how things are here… not much different. He had his medical tests about 10 days ago. I haven't been told anything, so have to assume that means they didn't find anything significant. No idea what he's getting from being so difficult to communicate with. It's sad, because any benefit to that is literally all in his head

Take care and hope that the coming week is good for you!

Oh for sure. I need to set those boundaries otherwise I will get walked all over. I suggested that my husband go to the grocery store today, the past several months I've been doing 100% of the grocery shopping and just cooking all his meals and taking care of him, and he definitely pushed back. But I do think there's something to what the therapist suggested about me not keeping the status quo if he wants to change it. It is really hard for me not to default to taking care of him but if I am definitely going to work on changing what I can and do feel comfortable with.


You are totally right, there is something very disconnected about how they want everything their way and are willing to sacrifice nothing. I was just telling the therapist that its like a teenager almost, or a toddler throwing a temper tantrum, I'm not sure which fits better. But, an adult acknowledging that a certain life-altering action is probably not right, not going to make them happy and is a bad idea but they may just have to "learn things the hard way" is something a teenager does, not an adult. There is definitely something to that and the fact that you have no idea what you are going to get. On my end, for my husband, it is a lot of uncontrolled anger that gets misdirected. This morning I was showing him some art one of my good friends just got that is so cool and his take away is "everyone else can afford nice art but us". I am not even sure that is true, but I think that shows the mindset. In that same conversation, we were chatting and he told me to "stop" speaking in a rude way so I went to leave and told me "stay here" and I said to him, that is just you in a nutshell. The vacillating back and forth is really hard.

All that to say, I find what you are saying about listening with respect and compassion but really focusing on actions not words very wise and helpful. I am going to start trying to implement that. He has made an appointment for us at the end of this week with someone one of his therapists recommended about what he calls "end of marriage" stuff. I have pressed him on what that means and he really can't say. I am definitely not looking forward to it and I feel like he is going to ambush me, that there are things that he won't say to my face because he thinks they will upset me but he feels somehow more comfortable saying them in front of a therapist. I know how hard emotional work it was to be in marriage counseling and that was when I feel like we both wanted the same end result. Now, I have no idea what he wants and so I am not looking forward to this. I do have a meeting with my therapist before that so I am hoping she will come up with a plan with me to help deal with it. I don't do too well on the spot.

I totally hear you about trying to understand what they are getting from being difficult to communicate with. Honestly, your guess is as good as mine at this point. I'm sorry that's happening for you right now and I hope that you can find some peace at home and have a great week.


S

Hugs to you.

I'm so sorry again for what you are dealing with. It's mind numbing.

Do you think your dh really wants to end the marriage? Or do you think that threat is something that he's trying to use to bring you back into line with his wants? That maybe he's trying to strongarm you emotionally into a place where a divorce doesn't happen, but he gets his way too?

Dr. Ramani on YouTube has a few videos about how narcissists may regularly threaten divorce as a means of manipulation, but then be totally shocked and upset when the other person gets tired of the games and leaves.

I'm worried for you, since he seems to be playing his cards close about what he wants and what might happen at the marriage counselor. I'm not always quick on my feet in settings like that either, so understand your trepidation about how it may go. Maybe take your time, think things through, and don't let anyone pressure you into quick responses on the spot?

That's a good idea to start reminding him about responsibilities that he can participate in. That's true- if he wants to change the status quo, why cater to him? You get to hold that line as you see fit. Still, old habits die hard, and the compulsion to caretake can be pretty ingrained. A lot of the changes I've undergone and implemented have taken time, and sometimes with a few missteps along the way. Change can be difficult, so be gentle with yourself as you learn and practice new boundaries.

Oh, the negativity... That's also something I relate to. It seems like the comparison, complaining, and fault finding are just a part of the victim mindset. They can't say something nice about what someone else has, can't be happy for someone else.

One of DH's habits is that can't say anything positive about any of the neighbor's houses- no compliments on a nice lawn, or a pretty flower garden- because that would be about someone else. But if one of the neighbors is so much as missing a window screen, he'll fixate on it. It's like he goes out of his way to look for something that can be used to minimize the other person, or it's something that's somehow offensive or hurtful to him.

Yeah, try setting aside his words for a while and see what his actions tell you. It can be an interesting little experiment. Words can be very manipulative, and easy to use. Actions are harder to fake because they require an actual commitment. Think about if someone promises to show up on time, but never does- pointless promises. The only way those words matter is if they're paired with action. The action of showing up on time, without words, speaks for itself too.

As for me, I'm a little worn down at the moment. After not speaking all weekend, dh went hypomanic yesterday, which is a whole different facet to this mess. He can't/won't acknowledge the hypomania, so it goes unaddressed. His summer episodes tend to be the worst, so I'm walking on eggshells a bit at the moment…

I'll be sending prayers and positive thoughts your way all week, especially with that counseling session you have coming up. Stay strong

I think he is not able to consistently tell me or express what he wants because right now he is being lead by his depression and desperation to "escape" and he will say that at times, but then that can be countered directly by his guilt, which makes him say something else. The other hard thing for me is he is definitely someone who says things he doesn't mean or takes back and I am not. So many times I tend to take him and what he says at face value when I shouldn't. This is one of the reasons that what you said about looking at someone's actions really felt like a very good idea for me. I have already started implementing that advice and it always makes me feel better to be actively doing something so thank you.


One of the problems for me right now is I have a few good friends going through divorces so I have seen them in the nitty-gritty of it and I have no interest in it right now, especially for my kids but for me too. But, at the same time, I don't see how him seeing other people while we separate will ever lead back to us being in a happy marriage. I can't say 100% because I haven't been there yet so who really knows, but while I can handle this "angst" or whatever you call what he is going through, I can't see him actually leaving and then being able to trust him enough to come back and go from there. Why would I when he knows he can always have a way out that allows him to "have his cake and eat it too?".

I am super nervous about this appointment, it is tomorrow morning. Luckily I am seeing my therapist this afternoon, and she also specializes in marriage counseling, so I am going to come up with a plan with her which I think will make me feel better. After my H initially broke this news that he was "done" with our relationship, we had so many conversations about it but in the past few weeks we haven't spoken too much about our situation other than thinly veiled comments by him.


It is so so hard for me to stop care taking him. I'm not sure how much I will be able too, even though I completely see the validity to stopping and having my own life. My therapist suggested I just leave for a week, but I just don't feel like I am in a position to do it right now. I'm telling myself baby steps.

The negativity you described with your H sounds so similar to my situation. It is like a compliment to anyone else is a direct insult to them, isn't it? It is so hard. I don't know how to get them out of that mindset either, but the troubling thing is one of my kids (and he is 7) has started to adopt this, so maybe it is just something they are born with? As I have explained to my son, it is a very hard way to live your life if every compliment about someone else you view as an insult to you. I hope I can have some effect on him but I'm not optimistic about my H. If someone else is rich, it insults him because we aren't. If someone else has success, he views it as his failure. The only exception would be with me or our kids.

I'm sorry you are dealing with a hard episode. Do you have any idea why it is worse in the summer? There is an interesting seasonality/pattern to these kinds of things so it would be interesting to know. Also, I feel for me as the partner it is so much worse when they won't acknowledge something is wrong. Sometimes, all I want to hear is H to admit what is happening or be realistic and it seems like it would be so much easier to deal with, doesn't it? I hope that you are hanging in there and I will let you know how the counseling goes...

Just a small update - we saw the therapist together and I am very relieved that I heard nothing new or surprising. That does not mean it is positive news, I still hear that he is done, nothing can be done to save our marriage, and the like, but I was not blindsided so I feel good about that. Surprisingly, his attitude towards me has been slightly better. Both my personal therapist and this therapist have suggested giving him more space so I am planning to do that. This therapist we saw together told me to stop doing stuff for him, in front of him, so I felt like that was good to be given permission to make an active effort not to care-take him. He is still completely emotionally detached not just from me, but from our kids, his own family, and everyday life. I'm glad we saw her so we can have someone work with us to figure everything out, and I think she was pretty even handed so that is good. I still hate everything about this situation for me and my kids, but I guess we're all in a lot of therapy so hopefully that has some effect and will help us.


I hope you are hanging in there, it is so hot here and I am ready for fall.

Thanks for posting the update. I've been thinking about you and wondering how it went.

Glad you didn't get blindsided and that you felt okay about the therapist.

I'm a bit short on time today, but will try to get back soon.

In the meantime,