where to go from here

Glad to hear that this week's session was a little better, but it does sound like your joint sessions are really "him events." Do you plan to keep going? It's commendable to want to help him, but at the same time it seems like you may be ending up depleted, or just plain frustrated.

Joshua Milburn of The Minimalists has written a few essays about how relationships are like an imaginary box between two people (this is going to be heavily paraphrased). Healthy relationships require give and take, back and forth. Each person has to be able to contribute something worthwhile to the box, and also be able to take meaningful things away from the box. When the giving and taking are too out of balance, it's not a relationship anymore. Resentments start to build. It's important that one person isn't always filling the box, while the other empties it.

A while back, someone told me something that resonated with me, I'll share it on the chance that you'll get something out of it:

All marriages eventually end, whether by divorce or death. Whether it's by choice or chance, and whether it's tomorrow, six months from now, five years from now, or twenty, at some point something is going to change. Who do you want to be when that time comes? That's the person to work on becoming. You should be able to be that well-centered individual, and still participate in a meaningful relationship with another person. Become the person you want and need to be for yourself, and let him decide if he's interested in accompanying you on that ride. You can make you about you without being a self absorbed narcissist type. I've struggled a lot with the concept of healthy selfishness- it's a real and necessary thing, and when we honor ourselves more, we tend to have more to offer others, believe it or not.

That's great that you can begin to see that his problems aren't your fault or responsibility. For someone like him (or my H), there can be a lot more comfort in shifting the blame onto someone else, rather than taking a hard look in the mirror. In H's FOO, they will have blame-shifting conversations that would be hilarious if they weren't just sad.

Anyhow, keep finding those boundaries, and learning to take care of yourself; eventually you'll know what the right move is, or what the answers are. There's a good story in Codependent No More where she talks about being scared driving in the rain because she had to get home and felt like she couldn't see where she was going. Then she realized that she just needed to focus on driving as far as she could see- and then she could see further. Even if you don't know what the future looks like, just keep focusing on what you can see in front of you, and let more become visible as you get further along.

I hope your H hasn't thrown any major curveballs at you in the last few days. I know how that goes, and there's something very wrong with having that Spidey Sense that tingles and warns you that it may be coming. That sort of thing tells you that you've been doing this pattern too long.

Mine has seemed to shift out of the predominantly hypomanic mode (which is predictable for this time of year, but again, according to the pros I don't know what I'm talking about…). So he's a little lower energy for the moment, but that's not necessarily much better, just different. As DD has said, "He's been like this for so long now, that even when it's not weird, it's weird." It's just always weird…

Hang in there and keep on keeping on.

They totally are. And, I just got back from another one of these therapy sessions for my husband that I also attend (which is what I am calling it now since that is what it is) and we explicitly discussed this. Basically, he said to her what I told him which is that these are counseling sessions to help him and address his issues that I am sitting in on. And, I expressed that I feel like I am benefiting from them in the sense that it helps me understand him better because while I knew he was in therapy this whole time other than a few tiny things here and there I have never been involved in his therapy. He expressed that I wouldn't tell him things in this context like "what my ideal sex life looks like" or "what I want from him." She told him that's because it is not a safe space for me to do so. She also said, like what you and I have said previously, is that we cannot do marriage counseling until he addresses his own issues. That when a party is ambivalent like he is right now, marriage counseling doesn't work. She said he can do individual therapy to deal with his rage and have me witness it or what she really wants him to do is have his sister (the one person from his own family of origin who is in therapy too and even half way understands all the trauma and abuse they went through) come to town and do family therapy together, potentially also with his parents.

So, that was really helpful for me to hear because she doesn't think she is my therapist and she is telling him something that may help him if he ever does it. All that is well and good. In the meantime, I had a good and overdue session with my own therapist who I really like as she always has some sort of action plan for me which I appreciate because it helps me concentrate on things I actually can control and to top it off we met with our middle child's therapist this morning too so I felt that was helpful too. I've never been a party to so much therapy before in my entire life though.I am definitely feeling VERY self actualized and her action items are really helping me both individually and to deal with the situation at hand. I did appreciate that story about the driving in the rain because it just highlights the importance of staying in the now. If I think about the future too much it becomes very hard. It is a challenging exercise but ultimately so much better just to focus on the now and what you can control.

I was remarking to my therapist that what is crazy to me is how this started off as "I am depressed because our marriage is bad because we don't have the sexual connection I need" to someone who has childhood trauma and has not really grown up and away from it and is having a crisis re: that, which has nothing at all to do with me even a little. I do get sad sometimes, I don't know if you ever have this feeling, that I don't have a partner in things and my emotional support system via my husband that used to be there isn't. I do really miss that and the feeling of being a team. But, either it will come back in time or it won't and I will have to decide what to do about that.

How are things with you? Your DD sounds very wise, it is so interesting how insightful kids are even when they are young. I hope everything is going well and that you too are enjoying the end of the week and hopefully focusing on yourself. It is so interesting how challenging that can be sometimes!

---I do get sad sometimes, I don't know if you ever have this feeling, that I don't have a partner in things and my emotional support system via my husband that used to be there isn't. I do really miss that and the feeling of being a team. But, either it will come back in time or it won't and I will have to decide what to do about that.---

100% yes. I could have written this exactly. The loneliness is terrible at times. He's not in a place where he can offer productive support. He's trapped in a selfish world. You're right, at a point you may realize that you want, and are going to seek, something more for yourself.

IMO, it's harder when you have younger children. That's very tiring even with a good two person team. When there's any breakdown in that, life's that much harder.

Now that DD is older and a little more self sufficient, so am I in a lot of ways. I don't *need* other people quite as much, though it would be very nice to have more of that at times. In my pervasive loneliness, though, I've become one of those people who will chat with just about anyone. You know what? There are a lot of very lonely people out there who enjoy random five and ten minute conversations too. Still, it's not the same as that deeper connection we both feel like we enjoyed at one time. I work on other aspects of myself for the time being.

There's a relationship expert (can't think of her name right now) who says that people leave when they're ready to leave. Her experience is that there isn't some designated time to call it quits, it's just something you'll know. You know why where you are is the right place to be at present, and if that changes, you'll be the first to know.

Did you feel validated by the therapist this week in regard to her acknowledging that the therapy is much more about him? It sounds like in some ways she's on the same page as you, understanding his limitations in regard to being able to productively work on the marriage, or respect what's fair to ask of you.

I'm somewhat curious about what H talks about in his counseling, but the recovering codependent in me has to stay backed away from it. There could be some benefit and ability to help, depending on the circumstances. Are you going to continue to accompany him? What do you think about the possibility of the sister accompanying him? Do you think that might help him? Would she do that? Does he want that? Sorry, that's a lot of questions, but it's an interesting direction. Just spitballing here, but it seems like with the sister there, maybe he'd focus more on the childhood trauma rather than some desire to go outside the marriage?

Your therapist sounds really great. That she gives you a plan of action that feels proactive seems good. Sometimes it's easy to get stuck and lose sight of positive things you can do. And it says a lot about you that you have a growth mindset. Even if he stays stuck somewhere, you are doing things to move yourself forward, right?

And, yeah, when we're in very complex and overwhelming situations, thinking ahead too far isn't helpful.

This week sounds like one that you've done a good job looking after your own needs.

It's been a weird one for us, but you know… more of the same. He looks like he's moved into a more depressed place, but is also putting on this very over the top act of being happy at times. To the point that it comes across as creepy. It feels a lot like borderline personality this week, but also the other things too. Detach, detach, detach….

This is so true. And the thing that bugs me so much is that it feels like a choice even though it is not. I don't know since I haven't been in that position, but at least a choice not to engage with your life and instead to just stay so disconnected. I know none of the therapists ever try to push him so maybe there is a reason for that but I can't help but be frustrated. I know that frustration is valid because it is just awful to be in a marriage with someone who doesn't care about you or maybe less bad, doesn't appear to care about you.


That relationship expert sounds right and I am not going to pretend I have not thought about it. I have to imagine at some point for any person the bad outweighs the good and when that happens you get more serious about leaving.

I did feel validated by her when she said that. Especially because H brought it up in the context that he feels I was "attacking" him when I said that which is about par for the course since my discussing the role of the therapist with him was of course about me and my feelings and not about him. She was pretty straightforward when she said to him that he shouldn't expect me to be talking about what I want in a relationship or sex life with him if he is "ambivalent" so I did appreciate that a lot.


We didn't make another appointment with her, part of it is that she is out of town next week and I'm unavailable the week after, but part of it is unless he is going to work on himself there's no reason for us to be there as a couple right now. I think family therapy with his sister and maybe his mom or dad is one way for him to start seriously working on himself. I am not sure if he will actually do it. I think he would have his sister come there and she suggested the family therapy to help him so the question is will he do it? I like his sister but he did mention when we were discussing the family therapy with the therapist that she had offered to come do that and also to help him move out and get set up. Prior, the therapist and I had agreed if he does move out he needs to do it himself. So I do get nervous that his sister will come here and enable him and just take care of everything, i.e. him leaving and I would be very upset if that is way things happened. But, I am telling myself it is so unproductive for me to predict the future so I won't think about that just yet. The therapist also suggested something my therapist just suggested which is the EMDR therapy to help him deal with trauma. He was as open to that as he is to anything else which is to say not very.


I keep going back to one thing my H said two sessions ago, he was talking to the therapist about being around our daughter who is our youngest, just turned 5, and she is very bubbly by nature and always sort of overflowing with joy. He was describing being around her and saying he sees the joy and love but doesn't experience it. He was saying it is like being in a world where music is playing and he's the only one who can't hear it. I think that is probably a good analogy for what he is going through and very sad. But, it is like you said about wanting/not wanting to see what your H does in therapy, on the one hand I can feel bad for him, but on the other hand, his actions have a direct effect on me, the life we've built and my children and so I think it is okay to feel bad for him, be frustrated at him, and try to just do what I can. So I guess that is what we are doing.


Another question I have for you, is if you and your H do things as a couple in front of others does it ever fee weird to you since things are not as they seem? We have a weird double date at the end of the week that he scheduled with a couple we are not very close to so I am sort of not looking forward to doing all that. I am okay with the "pretending" thing like pretending he hasn't said he wants to leave in every day life but when it crosses the line into "acting" I get uncomfortable. My birthday is coming up and it is the same day as a big football game here he has been invited to and he asked me more or less should he go since it is my birthday. I find that to be a weird concept, he tells me he has no interest in our marriage, he is not an active participant in our marriage, but he worries I'll be offended if he goes to a football game on my birthday? Just very confusing and makes no sense.Sounds like you have had something similar going on in what you were describing your H being depressed but acting over the top happy at times.


Sorry for the rambling today, I think it is as all over the place as I feel!!

Sometimes I think H's counselor doesn't push or challenge him because she figures it's pointless. He's not very open to acknowledging his shortcomings as a means to growth, so if that's the case, who could blame her?

I've heard, on more than one occasion, that some counselors don't make a lot of effort once they determine that a patient doesn't have a mindset for growth. You can lead a horse to water and all that…. My H didn't choose to go to counseling FWIW; he got to a point where it was no longer optional. It's possible that he's using the counseling sessions as an echo chamber or to insulate himself against problematic behavior ("Hey, I'm in counseling. What's your excuse?")

Yeah, the approach of not trying to predict the future is good, as hard as it feels at times. It's one of those things that may be largely out of your control? But your concern for what the sister may do if she were to visit, is understandable.

It's too bad that he's not interested in helping himself more and exploring things like the EMDR. Do you think that the disinterest is a symptom of depression, or do you think he gets something out of not showing interest, or pursuing change? As a general rule, people tend to do what gets them the result they want.

Your daughter sounds so cute and sweet . It is sad that he can't experience that, but interesting that he has that awareness of not being able to connect with it.

It's so okay for you to feel all that frustration, anger, resentment, whatever at your H. Feel anything you feel, there's nothing wrong with it. Even if it's the depression or some other condition that's somewhat beyond his control, that doesn't make your experience or feelings invalid. You can feel those things and still have compassion for what he's going through.

—->Another question I have for you, is if you and your H do things as a couple in front of others does it ever fee weird to you since things are not as they seem? We have a weird double date at the end of the week that he scheduled with a couple we are not very close to so I am sort of not looking forward to doing all that. I am okay with the "pretending" thing like pretending he hasn't said he wants to leave in every day life but when it crosses the line into "acting" I get uncomfortable. My birthday is coming up and it is the same day as a big football game here he has been invited to and he asked me more or less should he go since it is my birthday. I find that to be a weird concept, he tells me he has no interest in our marriage, he is not an active participant in our marriage, but he worries I'll be offended if he goes to a football game on my birthday? Just very confusing and makes no sense.Sounds like you have had something similar going on in what you were describing your H being depressed but acting over the top happy at times. ←–

H and I evolved into that more isolated stage that you sometimes read about. Between his increasing negativity and self centeredness, our friends slowly drifted away. The dynamic where he seems to put on an act when other people are around, came later as his health and general well-being got worse. In H's case, he often seems like he's putting on a good front- like the way an animal tries to cover an illness- and after a certain amount of time can't keep doing it and will start zoning out or not looking well. Who knows if it's exhaustion caused by depression, or if it's a sign that he's got a deeper medical condition that's still undiscovered- possibly a little of both. Anyhow, people drifted away, and it became more trouble and effort for me than what it was worth, so we don't socialize much.

Birthdays… oh boy! That's probably where the earliest forms of passive aggressive behavior came out big time. He's one of those PAs who can covertly spoil any occasion. Over the last few years, my feeling has become that he can do whatever he wants, or join in on what DD and I already have planned. We never did much for birthdays, but his neglect, or other antics, were painful at times. Now, instead of wishing he were something different, I buy myself something I like, bake or buy the cake I want, and prepare a meal, maybe have some other plans. It's not ideal, not the way I wish my relationship operated, but I'm rarely disappointed. The more it doesn't depend on him, the more he seems to try and be involved in a positive way Now he's lost control, and he doesn't want to be left out. And that's fine- this way he can choose to do something nice, or do nothing at all -- which is to say that he doesn't have the opportunity to do mean passive aggressive things anymore.

Hope you have a happy birthday no matter what happens. Do something nice for yourself! You deserve it!

That makes perfect sense, I guess if you go to a therapist and they know you have no interest in changing what is the point of challenging the patient? It is probably a universally accepted truth that you have to want to change and grow for it to be possible and that want has to come from within, not an external source otherwise it doesn't work.


For my H, I think that the disinterest is both of the things you mention. First, he is clearly depressed and has an overall lack of affect/emotion when those things are appropriate. He is simply not engaged and I do think much of that is a symptom of depression. Second, I think he is getting something out of this stance he has where he refuses to do anything or make any decisions. I don't know if it makes him feel powerful or my guess is that since he views any change as an opportunity for a "mistake" or as "dangerous" (i.e. non-parent approved change would cause something bad to happen to him or his parents) that is keeping him from doing anything as well. And, the more entrenched he gets the harder it is for him to change. He is somewhat better than he was during the summer but his behavior is far from normal and he is really not interested in too much beyond video gaming or running his business to some extent. This is why, I think, for him it is so much easier to think about leaving everything and everyone behind and starting over even though he will admit that solves nothing, is a quick fix, and he will end up back where he started.


I can see what you mean re: isolated stage. I think they tend to get wrapped so much in their own stuff it is hard to keep up with anything else at all. My H has also distanced himself from his friends who he would normally be talking to a lot. My take from the advice you've given, my therapist has given, and I've read in general is just to go about my life. So, the interesting thing is (apart from the double date we have tomorrow) is that tonight we have a party with parents from one of my kids' schools. Our babysitter bailed so I told him I would just go with another mom who is single. He didn't like that and expressed that he wants to go too, which is definitely a change because all of last spring he shirked all those activities at all costs. So I do think your overall advice of doing what I want and then letting him figure it out works well. Or put another way, when I want him to come or it is his idea to stay home, that's fine but if I want him to stay home that's when things change.


I do feel like birthdays are always walking on eggshells even in the best of times. I have a good group of friends and we always do birthday plans for each other so with that and whatever I want with the kids I don't really care what he does and I certainly wouldn't hang my birthday hat on any plans (or lack thereof) made by him. I just find it ironic that he's asking me about birthday plans when he doesn't want to be married to me. I know it is not that simple but it makes me want to laugh and cry. It sounds like you do have the birthday thing down to a science and I will plan on following your example next week for sure. I am someone who doesn't put a lot of stock in my own birthday celebrations - to me I care a lot more how people treat me every day then if they recognize my birthday or not.


I have also sort of been having fun with my therapists advice of "playing detective". So my H likes to make many passive aggressive digs at my family. My parents are on a long trip and he made some dig about them being on a trip and instead of having any reaction I did play detective and asked him why my parents' trip was important to him and it turns out he is mad I didn't get any money from my grandmother when she passed away recently, it all went to her children (including my mother). So I do find it interesting how "playing detective" can really reveal the reasoning behind these statements.


I will report back after our double date tomorrow. I can't remember the last time we went out with one other couple, we have done many group parties and some one-on-one things but it has been ages since we've had a dinner like this so the dynamics will be interesting to see.

How did it feel to skip the joint counseling this week? Did you feel like you were missing something? Was it a relief? Something else? Your own feelings can tell you a lot…

Did the missed session have any noticeable effect on him?

How did the double date go? What about the party? Did that get figured out in an acceptable way? Odd-funny how that was suddenly an issue for him. But, yes, live your own life, hold your boundaries, and don't feel bad to have some expectations of him.

Has your birthday happened already? How was it? Happy birthday from over here! Hope it was a good one. Given how you generally treat birthdays, his actions do seem out of sync. If he were my H, my thought would be that he's being classically consistently inconsistent as a means of feeling some sense of involvement and possibly control- which is something he may not even do consciously.

That's great advice from your therapist. Those kinds of questions sound like a good way to redirect the issue back to him, but in a proactive and respectful way.

Your assessments of the reasons you think he does what he does, are insightful. Especially about how he fears making mistakes and how that relates back to the way his parents treated him. Thinking about it, it may apply to my H too. His mother can postmortem anything into what you did wrong, or what could have been better, even if everything went fine For people like DD and myself, we politely acknowledge it for nothing more than the sake of moving on, but it's potentially a significant issue in his development. Nothing was ever good enough.

What you shared about how he wants a quick fix or some form of starting fresh, resonates too. A few times, when H has been very depressed, he's said that he wants a "reset button", which sounds sort of similar. He's focusing on missed opportunities and past mistakes, but is unable to accept that there's no choice but to accept what's done and move forward. And he just can't seem to get there for whatever reason. Being stuck like that means he's continuing to waste time/life.

This week has been as weird as any. He's back to looking more spacey and rattled in recent days. Hard to explain… it was almost like he had decent focus for a week or two, but now it's dropped off again- not necessarily firing on all cylinders. This is part of the pattern that has become regular, and somewhat predictable over the past few years. DD's school had their homecoming party this past weekend, and she talked about it constantly all last week, did dry runs with her outfit and hair several times, with him seemingly interacting and acknowledging what she was doing. On Saturday night when she was getting ready to go, he was baffled about what was going on. When I explained it, he got a little agro and paranoid- like things were being hidden from him. For probably obvious reasons, we don't over-share with him, but it was hardly hidden either- he's just so self focused, he often seems to have no idea of what's going on around him. That part gets frustrating- him not being tuned in, and then getting upset when he doesn't know what's going on- and doing so in a way that suggests someone else is to blame. There are many times, like this one, that he reminds me of other family members when they were in early dementia. I can't let myself think about that too long. And I have to continue to leave the possibility of passive aggression and manipulation on the table for my own sake.

I hope that things are going well where you are and that you had a great birthday!

Honestly it felt better at least because I didn't have to go pretend the counseling was also for me. I am guessing if I went now it would feel better because she clarified the role that I have there. I think my main problem was that she never made clear to me that I was not her patient so not knowing that, I felt mistreated because I knew she wasn't counseling me or looking out for my interests. It did not have any effect on him, and I did ask him if he was planning on doing the family therapy she recommended and he was non-committal so seems like that is not something that is happening now.

The double date and party ended up fine. He did figure out the party thing and joined me there as I had already planned to go with a friend and certainly was not going to change my plans for him. The double date was fine, I like this couple and he was able to socialize regularly but it does feel weird to me.

My birthday is actually tomorrow. I have kids sports stuff and then a happy hour with girlfriends and then my H and I may go to dinner. I finally told him I felt it was weird for us to go to dinner because it felt like a farce. We actually had somewhat of a good conversation because I came to this realization that when it comes to our relationship my H has what we both call "rock brain". That is a term my oldest son's therapist coined. Since my oldest son is on the spectrum, we use this term with him. It means that his brain is not flexible and he is not open to considering actual reality, compromise or specifics of the situation and instead is focusing on his idea of what he wants with no room for negotiation even if the idea is not based on reality. For example, my boys share a room and my oldest won't go to bed if his little brother is in there with him, even if he is quiet so the fact that he is not alone means he won't sleep even apart from the actual circumstances. My H has rock brain because he has told himself he is out of our relationship so he is just not open to it regardless of how he actually feels or the specifics. I was happy H admitted this is true because that felt pretty good to be validated. H acknowledged that it is weird to go to dinner but he is open to it.

This week my therapist recommended this book, "Getting the Love You Want" by Harville Hendrix actually for my H but I am pre-screening and I find it fascinating. It talks all about why partners pick each other in terms of negative and positive traits from their parents and different ways to come together as a couple and how that has evolved over the years. There are a few really helpful and interesting things there even just for me myself. I also told my H during our conversation that I do think he has the capacity to change if he wants to. He is just in this very toxic era and it is sometimes, as you know, so toxic it feels like we are all under water with him.


Do you think having predictability in your H's pattern makes it easier for you to cope with? I'm curious because I am not consistent in responding as I should to my H's issues even though I know what to do. This is something I am striving towards but I wonder if knowing the pattern helps you. That is very interesting about homecoming and not over sharing. This all sounds very familiar unfortunately for us both!


I hope you had a great/steady week and have a great weekend ahead! This journey is so winding and never ending sometimes but one of the plus sides (among the overwhelming down sides) is I feel like it has helped me understand many thinks about myself better.

—>I had already planned to go with a friend and certainly was not going to change my plans for him.<---

100% yes! Good for you. That's absolutely the right mindset.

In regards to that double date you went on, I try to reframe that sort of thing in my mind, it sounds like maybe you have to? That you can go and socialize as an individual, and enjoy it for what it is? But it can be a little weird feeling to think that the other couple may have a different perception of how your relationship really is. It probably also depends on the vibe you and H are giving off. Mine's generally much friendlier in front of others, to the point it can be galling at times.

Happy belated birthday! How was it? Hope it was good.

Rock brain- I like that and may have to borrow it. It's especially appropriate this week. I've come up against H's very rigid thinking (and low awareness), as well as that of his rigid family system.

On a possibly related note to that, I've been reading about damage to the amygdala in the brain, which is associated with things like borderline personality, alcohol use disorder, some dementias, and various other conditions. It fits H's issues almost exactly, and if that's what's going on, it's largely beyond his control. That's very hard to accept as a possibility.

It's good that you felt validated by your H about how dinner out felt. There's something about feeling like you're on the same page, even for a short time, and even if the subject isn't as positive as it could be.

The book sounds interesting. Will your H read it and get much out of it, do you think? At least you are getting something out of it.

Mine is completely closed-minded to recommendations from anyone else. If yours is open to that, well, that's something anyway.

The other day, someone pointed out that if H is incapable of loving himself at present, he's incapable of loving anyone else. I knew that… funny how easy that is to forget at times….

—->Do you think having predictability in your H's pattern makes it easier for you to cope with?<---

NO! Absolutely not. Lol. At his baseline, he seems to be angry and uncomfortable, so while the "seasonal" shifts have become predictable, his behavior beyond that is not predictable. In the euphoric phase he has bursts of high energy, talks faster than is easily understandable, paces around the house restlessly, sometimes exercises so intensely that he looks like he might hurt himself (a concerned neighbor approached me twice about that a few years ago), and then over top of that he has what looks like borderline mood shifts. In the dysphoric phase, he mumbles and talks slowly, has low energy, doesn't attempt to do much extra in the way of projects, can look very depressed at times, and on top of that he has what looks like borderline mood shifts.

Here's maybe a way to describe it… bipolar could be thought of as a smooth wavy line that slowly undulates up and then down over a centerline. Borderline is like an unpredictable, jagged line that shoots into points on either side of a baseline. With H, there's that bipolar/cyclothymic-like line that moves back and forth slowly, and then on top of that undulating line there's another line of sharp peaked spikes of mood up and down.

I very slightly prefer him when he's in the more depressed mode, because the hypomanic energy and near constant movement/pacing is exhausting for everyone in the household. But other than that, not much else is all that predictable. Whether euphoric or dysphoric, you never know what's going to set him off and if he's going to have an episode of being pissy and verbally aggressive, or withdrawn and not talk for days. That's part of the eggshell-walking life with a borderline type person– we say he's always 30 seconds from a meltdown, to remind ourselves that literally anything and everything has the potential to trigger him. To reiterate though, I don't know that it's comorbid borderline/bipolar, it's just what it looks like in the surface.

It's been a bad week here. I've endured 2 of his meltdowns this week. Handled one well, misstepped on the other. It was likely triggered by contact he had with his FOO and things going on with them, so it's a continuing issue (for him) at present. Despite it all, I'm doing okay. I'm largely detached, and able to emotionally regulate fairly quickly nowadays, but have some introspection to do about how to deal with him and just what kind of expectations might be reasonable (given that it's likely there are uncontrolled brain irregularities/damage). And more importantly, what I need to do to take care of myself. It's been a somewhat rough week.

I'll wrap it up there with apologies if it wasn't much help this week.

How has your week been? Hope it's been a stable one for you.

That is a good point, my H is not necessarily friendlier to me in front of others, definitely not unfriendly just same sort of ambivalence as every other day. So in that way it doesn't feel like we are putting on a show or anything so that part is a relief. My birthday was very nice with the kids and my friends. I did end up going to dinner w my H another night to celebrate and I did definitely struggle with it. Its not that I mind us going to dinner together necessarily, it just feels off to me to be like here is a person who made certain promises to me, who is now ambivalent because he in some crisis that I did not cause, but now I am pretending he is my real husband again? I don't know. Maybe I just need to work on letting go of the original expectation? I will say I am glad I have an appointment with my therapist this week to discuss this stuff.


I am also going to tackle the topic of communication with my therapist. My H just lacks a basic ability to communicate his wants, needs and more pertinent to this discussion, when things irritate him. We got into it a little bit this morning because yesterday during one of the birthday celebrations for my son, whose birthday was yesterday and we did a party for him yesterday as well, my H was so rude to me and I didn't understand why. Then this morning we had to go to my son's school to do a little birthday celebration and essentially on the way home I got told by him "why do I never have anything nice to say to him" and I think I made a conscious decision to engage with him and let it devolve into me telling him how I feel (which is NEVER a good idea these days) and then he ended up yelling at me which I am very uncomfortable with. But, I am proud of myself because after he calmed down I was able to say to him that the problem is that he doesn't tell me when things I do upset him. So he keeps it bottled up and then explodes at me and it feels like it comes from nowhere and it is always an overreaction. So it is really unfair to me in many ways and I told him so and that he needs to just tell me when things upset him so I can apologize and we can move on. Because of how he grew up and how stifled he was, I literally cannot predict what may trigger him. Sometimes it feels like it is EVERYTHING. But what good does it do if he doesn't tell me anything he feels and then is a jerk to me out of nowhere? Anyways, I am not happy I engaged with him because I know I shouldn't, but I am happy I was able to sort of try to teach him how to communicate better. He just doesn't know how to. I also acknowledge it is SO difficult to be in my position, and that he may never acknowledge that to me, and that is okay because I know it. And, I think it is even okay when I am mean back to my H and make comments like he does to me. I always say to him that I am a person too, which is true and he forgets because he does hold me to an impossible standard. Sometimes I wonder how much can a person expect to put up with? I imagine you have felt the same at times.


Back to what you were saying about your H, that is such a good explanation you have that really highlights your struggle with your H too. That does make sense what you are saying, I cannot imagine it is easy to live with someone who is hypomanic and always moving around, it would totally be exhausting. Does he have any insight into this behavior when he is that way? I am just curious because at least for me sometimes it helps me when my H acknowledges his behavior even if he will do nothing or can do nothing to change it. I am so sorry that you've endured a bad week but I am glad you are coping as best you can. It is hard to keep those expectations reasonable even if you know who you are dealing with and even if part or all of it is not entirely their fault or within their control. It is sort of like what I was saying above, we are still people too and in such a hard position no matter the reason. So, all that to say I am glad you are cutting yourself some slack and doing what you need to do to take care of yourself. I hope you keep doing it!


I sure hope this past week was better for you and a stable one. I'm hoping for an easy week for us both!

Hey again.

Hope this week has been a decent one for you.

It sounds like you had a well celebrated birthday, all things considered.

Maybe it's good in some ways that your H is at least consistent in his behavior, whether alone or with others. Not that it's less hurtful or confusing, but at least maybe you can guess at what you'll have to deal with? Hopefully not too many surprises?

—>Maybe I just need to work on letting go of the original expectation?<---

Yeah, this is tough because it's your expectation and not an unreasonable one. But, obviously, if he can't/won't be that, you can't make him be that.

I've sort of taken to addressing things at face value- almost like you would with a stranger- and back to that 'actions speak louder than words.' That's not to say that if he acts nice for an hour everyone accommodates him, but rather to not overthink the perpetual ups and downs too much. He's got problems right now, and I'm just going with the flow as best as I can. Think about relaxing in an inner tube on a river and letting the current take you along to wherever you'll end up downstream. You don't have to make a lot of effort, and the only person you need to manage in the current, is you (and sometimes dependent children who can't always manage for themselves). Is that a crummy analogy? It's adapted from anxiety work…

Hopefully your therapist has some ideas for things that may work in regards to better communicating with him. You've come up with some very good methods already, from what you've shared.

I'm sorry you got looped into one of those draining arguments. That sounds familiar. Was the argument you had one of those circular ones? Where you feel like he's pushing you around and around in an attempt to get you to go where he wants? Mine loves to do that, and will just not quit as long as he thinks he might find a way to "win". (To me, we should be making a team effort, but for him it's win-lose - it helps to be able to see that with increasing clarity).

Some disordered people, especially those who are unable to connect with their feelings, will also push those closest to them into the emotions that they, themselves, can't express. So if they're angry (or sad, or hurt, or frustrated, etc) in their minds, a good course of action is to make someone close to them angry, so they've essentially displaced the anger (or whatever emotion they can't allow themselves to feel) onto someone else - like passing a hot potato.

Anyway, good for you for staying calm and holding your ground. That's not always easy. And if the above resonates with you, I've found that if you're able to refrain from the negative emotions he's pushing you towards, then he's still stuck with them instead of you doing him the favor of taking the hot potato. Staying calm and rational also helps dissipate any "I win, you lose" dynamic.

—>Sometimes I wonder how much can a person expect to put up with?<---

That's the individual million dollar question - it's your call when you've hit your limit. And also your call as to what you do about it.

Here's something I've found helpful, which is to approach the situation as something that you're choosing to do for a reason. Whether it's the kids, finances, your concern for him, your belief in commitment, something you need from your current situation… there's a reason you're staying. You can think something along the lines of "I'm choosing to stay because it makes sense for ME in this moment" or maybe it's "I'm choosing to be here in an effort to help someone who isn't currently able to help himself." Whatever the reason is, empower yourself to the choice(s). And when a choice no longer works for you, you'll shift to a different choice, kwim?

In situations like ours, people often won't understand why we're remaining where we are. It doesn't matter if they understand or not, but we probably should for our own sake. You can undoubtedly list a number of reasons why you should leave the situation, but can you define why you're remaining, and why that's important? Whyever you're staying, and putting up with the things you are, it might be helpful or important for you to be able to define it.

And never forget that you're entitled to change your mind at any time.

You asked if H is aware of himself- he has moments of awareness that seem generally fleeting. For example, those irrational borderline-esque episodes where he misinterprets and overreacts? Sometimes, a week or two after the fact, he'll admit to being aware that he reacted to something that only existed inside his head. Not always though; there are lots of times he's convinced he's done nothing at all wrong, or that the problem was with the other person. But even when he admits to the problem, it gets swept under the rug almost immediately and isn't talked about again. So it's like at times he can see how he is, but the shame (or whatever) is too great for him to remain in a self aware state.

Despite the recent issues, I've been able to detach and distance emotionally better than ever before. Given the current drama going on in his FOO, it's become frighteningly easy to see where much of the dysfunction/disorder likely stems from. It's like standing off to one side watching a play that makes so much sense, and realizing that it has absolutely nothing to do with me. It's rather freeing. So this week it feels like my feet are back under me in a little more solid way- at least for the time being.

I hope that you are doing well, and that you will be heading into a weekend that's got some fun and relaxation waiting for you.

You are totally right about that. There is definitely a consistency and even though I do not particularly care for how he is acting, it certainly does not change at all. So I suppose there is some comfort in that.


I think that is really good advice you have to not read too much into things and to try and take things at face value, I know we've talked about this before that actions speak louder than words and there is something to that. And, if I can remember it and implement it I think I will do better. I am going to work on that and I think it will help because I tend to not do this and instead sort of lump every action in with this history and try to analyze it in that context and I think that is not helping anyone. Plus, as is so often the case with many men, sometimes my husband's actions have no actual meaning to them and are just based on how he feels at the time he makes them. So reading into them is not helpful.


I also found what you said about reaching my breaking point helpful. You are totally right that in every case there are reasons people are staying and I don't need to judge my own reasons just like I would not judge other people's reasons. I am going to work on empowering myself to that choice as well. I think so much of this is about mindset and it is so helpful when I remember all of this advice together because it really puts things in the best way possible and then puts me in the best frame of mind possible. I can totally define why I have chosen to stay in my marriage at this time and why it is important to me and there are so many reasons right now, many of which you listed. And I do think it is okay that some are having to do with our relationship and what I think marriage means and some have to do with practical implications like finances and the kids. And the combination of those things at this time add up to me wanting to remain married. Maybe one day the equation will change and then I will deal with that then. Sometimes I just find it helpful to have someone else who is in a somewhat similar situation validate my feelings so I appreciate that.


That makes sense about the self awareness and limitations with your H. I was just curious because sometimes it can be such a relief when they acknowledge their behavior, even if it is short lived. I am so glad you are able to detach right now. I really do feel like that has to be such a difficult skill to learn so good for you. I find that FOO drama so scary and interesting from an outsiders perspective and feel the same way as you. My H's parents have been on an extended vacation for the past three weeks and since they live in the same city as us it has been AMAZING to have them gone. This is true even though my MIL is very helpful with the kids and everything, it is still SO MUCH EASIER to have them gone. There is a peace around that does not exist when they are here.


My therapist had such good ideas to help with communication and even some will translate over to my middle child who also has similar issues to my H in that these are people you can't correct or hint they made a mistake in any way because they are otherwise so hard on themselves. She had some really good ideas at how this can work and I even wrote them down so I can implement them. She also had some ideas about how to prevent my H from exploding since he can't communicate with me and things like that. I honestly wish we had seen her together, but if my H ever wants to actually check back into our marriage, these are ideas that would REALLY help. And, on a separate note, she helped me identify my own core issues which apparently almost has but you can get rid of them if you have a good relationship with your parents as an adult then you "heal them". I find all of that so fascinating.


I am coming off of a very busy weekend so there is not much time to interact and at this point I am totally okay with that. My H will more or less do the logistics with the kids I need him to, and even if he doesn't do them in the most connected way, I am glad he is at least functioning enough to spend time with the kids and help me out, so there's my re framing there.

I hope you are having a good start to the week!

It's good to have other people to compare notes with, understand, be understood, and not feel so crazy and alone as you try and sort these things out, isn't it?

Sometimes it helps to just vent, so you can clear your mind and get on with the day.

Defining what keeps you in place is good, then you're focused on the benefits more than the detriments, you know? It can also help you to focus more on yourself and what you need out of the situation at any given point in time.

Each morning, I try to come up with something to do that day that's productive and forward thinking/moving. It might not be possible to significantly improve things as they stand now, but what if you can strive towards just a little bit better? Maybe it adds up, or moves things in a better direction, over time? (Even if only for you)

Isn't that interesting how much easier things can be when certain people/family members are absent? There can be some clarity in that. Is your H different with his parents gone? Do you see the effect on him? Is he able to see it? Is there a specific reason you think it's easier when they aren't around? Is it just the energy they impart?

For years we would go visit family for the day (mine and his in the same town), and the next day I'd say I had a "family hangover." It wasn't a joke, it literally felt like a hangover or the flu or something. Now, understanding more, it's a little easier to see how the exhaustion comes from the constant emotional-energy-ping-pong that they engage in.

—>in that these are people you can't correct or hint they made a mistake in any way because they are otherwise so hard on themselves. ←–

Very well said. This is a mistake I made time and again for a long time. He *might* be able to recognize what he's doing and that it's harmful to himself and others, but the shame is so great that he has to block it from himself, or rationalize it away. It won't get fixed until (and if) he comes to that point on his own.

The things that your therapist is helping you with in regards to your own core issues sounds good, and probably a productive place to put your energy. We end up in relationship dynamics that we do for a reason, right? And the only person we can fix is ourselves…

October has continued to be a weird and chaotic rollercoaster. Unfortunately, I found myself sucked back into a few old, bad habits, despite him being away for a few days. It may not be in a direct way, but I became more focused on him, his behavior, and his problems than is healthy. I need to brush up and double down on some codependency work. It's challenging, because he seems to actively attempt to manipulate me into his vortex often times, and maintaining an equilibrium of not getting drawn in past the centerline can be tough. Add to this that at one point he was very upset and able to recognize some of the cognitive losses and problems he's experiencing— it's hard to not jump in and try to "fix" things for him when it looks more like brain damage. But fixing can end up being code for enabling, and if done incorrectly, he doesn't have to face the truth of his problems- because I do it for him. Yeah, he's a mess and not always very nice, but there's room for improvement in myself.

Guess that's this week. I hope that you've been doing well. Sorry if this is a bit disjointed. The October rollercoaster has been something else… but it's come with a lot of new clarity that I'm still working to digest.

I'm going to chime in here with a few sentences. This is what life experience has taught me. Whoever came up with the idea that we are supposed to stay with and in love with the SAME person for our entire lives must have been CRAZY. Somewhere along the line things get boring for one or the other. People " fall out " of love.
How many marriages go 50-60 years without straying ? That's human nature. But outright open marriages are bull****. The stray cat usually comes back home. Make it work or walk. Life is to short.

moodyblue83, in a more ideal world, I'd agree with the sentiment. For some people, the timing and other issues might not make it so easy. Things like the current high cost of living, expensive and unavailable housing in many areas of the country, other financial considerations, children who are better off in the current situation versus the next likely alternative, health considerations of one or both people --- anyhow, there can be a lot of moving parts that can leave some people feeling stuck for the time being and trying to make the best of that. But ultimately, you're probably right about the bigger picture.

It helps so much to have someone to chat with, it really helps with not feeling so alone. Especially as not many people in my "real" life know what is going on for many, many reasons. Apart from my therapist and one of my best friends, no one else knows the real truth of how things are right now.


I got to meet with my therapist today and she asked me the same question we had been pondering earlier, which is how much is too much and do I think I will ever say enough is enough. I told her essentially what we had talked about but she said most women just "know" when they have had enough and once they get to that point they can't be convinced otherwise whereas men go back and forth and are ambivalent. This sounds very familiar to me!


That is a good idea to think of something each morning. Of course, having a job and the kids to focus on helps too. Also hobbies help and friends. Now I see my therapist twice a month but I also try to have a topic in mind to discuss with her and she always gives me what I call "action items" which is part of the reason I like her so much. She has so many actual, real helpful tips that I can put to use even though I am the only one who is willing to work on things. But she had a good point today to redirect me to focus on things I can do to make this situation better for myself. So, just like you mentioned, that is what I am doing.


With respect to your summary about October, it is so so hard not to fall back into old habits. It is something I find for me I have to actively work on. If I do anything by instinct or without thinking too hard I end up right where I started which is difficult. It is so hard not to try and "fix" things for them, isn't it? I too struggle with that even though you are right in the end it doesn't serve either of us well.


We just have had all these fun events with the kids and my H sits there like a ghost on his phone with no interaction/or on the flip side, if the kids are fighting/misbehaving he is screaming at them in a way that I hate. I also discussed this with my therapist today, but I grew up in a non-screaming house so yelling (I am talking REAL LOUD YELLING not raising your voice which I too do more than I'd like) is very scary for me. And, I don't want my kids to grow up and get used to being screamed at. Have you had any experience with this? With my H it is a product of him bottling everything up inside so its like a pot that boils over. He has never been able to discuss any inter-personal frustration with me calmly. He usually is much better with the kids but can have a temper at times and it does really bug me. Really it is something he needs to work on badly and I have set firm boundaries but my therapist gave me some tips too that help.


In a nutshell, that has been my week so far. I hope that November brings some calmness and light to you! And as always thanks for listening!

—> Apart from my therapist and one of my best friends, no one else knows the real truth of how things are right now. ←-

It's not exactly the kind of stuff you share with just anyone, and sometimes even people you do choose to share it with end up backing away or not believing it- at least IME. This sort of situation has a lot of potential to be isolating and lonely.

—->she said most women just "know" when they have had enough and once they get to that point they can't be convinced otherwise whereas men go back and forth and are ambivalent. This sounds very familiar to me! ←–

That isn't hard to believe! There's a thing called "walk away wife syndrome", where women are thinking about it quietly for years, and then just get to a point where they leave. It's interesting to know that there is often a predictable pattern of how men handle these things, versus women. Dr. Ramani says in one of her videos that when people decide they want to leave, they're generally already disconnected enough that they don't threaten or talk about it, they just do it.

Your therapist sounds amazing. Some of us aren't very good at focusing on ourselves and need to learn how to do it. And if we've gotten in the habit of focusing on others needs, that can be a darn hard habit to break.

Yeah, October was definitely a step back month- not so much for him as for me. Unpredictability is his normal, but my ability to deal with him and have strong boundaries slipped. I let myself get sucked back into the vortex. It's gotten better with more codependency work. Detaching and boundary setting do have some magical qualities.

Screaming… that's a good question. I don't deal with it well either. To me, screaming and yelling by an adult is a sign of an out of control person who's slipping into their child-self. Not that we don't all end up there on occasion, but IMO, it's not okay to yell at someone and it's not okay to be yelled at. Neither is productive, it just makes the yeller feel better/powerful/in control, and causes the yellee to feel scared/controlled (or causes them to disassociate).

Coincidentally though, I've watched a few videos this week by a woman who has recovered from borderline, and she explains some interesting perspectives about when borderlines rage (which may not apply to your H obviously). When someone starts yelling in a particularly uncontrolled way, they aren't able to think, they're only able to react, and since they're so deep inside their own head, they don't have much concept that it's damaging to other people. In their heads they're justifiably venting their frustrations (of course, don't try to vent back, that's unacceptable and will just escalate their entitlement to scream and vent). Logic/cognition is completely out the window when reaction/overreaction is in play, so don't even try to reason with them.

I can see this dynamic in H. The best course of action seems to be to remove yourself and any kids from the line of fire as gracefully as possible, and let the angry person calm down. With dh the best time to address it is when he's calm (reasonable mind) and complaining that everyone avoids him- at which point I try to explain to him that when he gets moody and "frustrated", it's scary and upsetting to us. It sinks in at least a little bit better in those times that the yelling isn't okay, even if a part of him feels it's somehow justified. But like someone who's borderline, in that emotionally charged moment, he's not going to be able to see the effect he's having on others- it's literally all about him. He's upset, he's the victim, he's trying to ease his emotional upset in an external way, and other people end up the target or in the crossfire. His mother also rages, so to some extent, this is normalized and acceptable to him, even though he gets hurt in the same way when she does it Don't know if something like this might apply to your H in any way, but a screaming mind is generally not able to be a reasoning mind….

As November starts, things here are better, but it's not because he's better so much as I realized that I slipped back into engaging him in ways that aren't productive. It makes him too much the center of the circle, you know? No one person should be in the center of the circle with others orbiting around them. Now the challenge is keeping myself out here in "ArmorPlate Land" where I'm supposed to live….

Hope you are doing well and living in "Shyla Land" where you belong

Hi! Just wanted to check in after my unplanned absence from here. My middle son is having some issues at school and my older son broke his thumb so scheduling all of the things that go along with those things are a full time job on top of the one I already have!

I agree with you about screaming. Honestly, it makes me sad sometimes that my H can't communicate strong emotions through anything but screaming and it is so related to his childhood issues that have not been dealt with. I think that is interesting about the video you mentioned, it does help to think that he can't really control what is happening and has no idea how damaging it is. Although my kids certainly tell him and so do I. But, it does go to show you that it might be hard for him and people like him to fully grasp. I didn't even know you could "recover" from borderline, that is very interesting to hear (although I confess I do not know or understand much about the condition in general). I do feel like my kids have helped me with this because through them I have understood even from toddler age that when they are having a meltdown there is no input for them to even hear rational thought or think through things. You just have to wait until they calm down. I don't think I ever knew that before but it also of course applies to my H.


It is sort of weird in a way because it does end up being all about my H, like he will engage with me a ton about his work situation and to talk through his issues but generally passes days or even weeks without asking me anything. Definitely one sided for the time being, and I do wonder how or if we could ever reach some sort of normal or healthy relationship. I guess that remains to be seen.


I do hope you have good luck keeping yourself in "ArmorPlate Land" and the focus on yourself. I find the upcoming holidays tricky to navigate especially as it ups the time we both have to spend with my H's toxic parents. And, now that I have sat through SO many therapy sessions with my H learning even more about their relationship (and all of it awful) I find it even harder to be around. Do you have any tips for having to be around toxic in-laws because I will take all the help I can get!

I will say I am staying in "Shyla Land" at the moment but quite honestly only because it has been so busy around here I have no time to focus on H these days!

It sounds like you've had a lot on your plate recently. All places that require and deserve your attention.

Hope your kids are doing okay. A broken thumb sounds inconvenient. Should I ask how it happened? Ouch.

In regard to anger and meltdowns, for those of us who have the control generally associated with being adult, it’s hard to understand that they may not have that capacity. Understanding it from that angle may make it a bit easier to disconnect from it and not waste time engaging. It goes back to ‘didn't cause it, can't control it, can't cure it.’ We often want to help and make things right, and it's hard to back off if you think you have any chance of being effective at solving something.

It's not good for the kids obviously, so a good thing might be to get them out of the line of emotional/verbal fire, and make sure they know they aren't responsible, or the cause of his behavior. You can't fix him, but you can make sure your kids have the boundary and understanding they need.

—>It is sort of weird in a way because it does end up being all about my H, like he will engage with me a ton about his work situation and to talk through his issues but generally passes days or even weeks without asking me anything. Definitely one sided for the time being, and I do wonder how or if we could ever reach some sort of normal or healthy relationship. I guess that remains to be seen. ←–

100% my H too. At times, he recognizes this as well. He will say he can barely keep his own head above water (from a mental standpoint), and that leaves no room for being able to focus on anyone else. Some disorders are rather selfish by nature, which makes it difficult or impossible to have a meaningful relationship. Sometimes the healthy boundary is telling him that I have nothing to give him right now, because I need to keep it for myself.

Dealing with toxic inlaws? Decide on your boundaries, on what you can reasonably do (or want to do), and find a way to make that work for you. This has gotten easier for me as DD has gotten older, become increasingly aware of the problems, and has less interest in being a part of it. When she was younger, she enjoyed going to visit her grandparents, running around their property, and just making a day out of it. I'd just go with the flow and zone out (go to your happy place!) for the day. There came a point though that DD became aware that they were very self involved and not much fun to be around- and also that they weren't very nice to me in particular. As H has become less caring about her and my feelings, I can't justify subjecting either of us to a day of that. I'm not winning any popularity contests with his family at the moment, but am also not taking the hits to my mental health (and am protecting DD’s as well).

Maybe find the balance of what makes sense for you and your kids right now, with a quiet understanding that next year, or the year after, you may choose to do things differently. Do it for your kids if you think that's the way to go, take a lot of walks to get out of the house, have a good book or portable project with you, hide in the bathroom, etc.

As for things here, the more things change, the more they stay the same. It's still the rollercoaster ride where some days it seems like he's doing what he's doing intentionally, and some days it gets scary and seems like he's just not all there. I wonder if I'll ever know the truth of what's happened to him.

Hope that you are doing well. Do your kids have the whole week off? My DD is feeling a little burnt out. She needs some good R&R, and fortunately we didn't have any appointments to schedule for the week off. Yay!

I, yes I sure have. So inconvenient although today he gets to stop wearing his splint so that's exciting. Weird accident, he plays football before school sometimes with friends and apparently other kids were playing volleyball around them and one accidentally served a ball into his thumb. I said that third grader must have a pretty strong serve to break his thumb just from that!


That makes sense about your boundary, does your H respect that when you say it? I feel like mine would be mean and bitter if I said something like that, but I guess I don't know until I try. I have been having these communication issues with my H and it is so weird. I told him this and I really do feel like communicating with him is like walking through a minefield because I never know what I say that will set him off. And, he is categorically incapable of having a disagreement without resorting to super childish behavior. Actually, not even a disagreement but some type of communication where I inadvertently push a button or have a misstep like normal human beings do. Imperfect communication from my end can cause him to have a meltdown and honestly sometimes it might be tone or me using the word "we" instead of "I" and things like that. I really do feel like I have become the place all of his anger goes to. I have to remind him constantly that I am not a robot. I really need to focus on not being reactive to his own issues which I know very well have little to nothing to do with me, but I find it super difficult. I will say I am getting much better at knowing that my H means nothing that he says when he is like that so that is super helpful. I guess one day/step at a time right?


I took your advice re: the inlaws and it went well. We had to do some Thanksgiving with them before going to my family and I took my own car. So I sent my H and kids there early while I finished cooking and then I went over there, ate with them and left when I wanted to. I hate feeling trapped there so it is really nice to have my boundaries and control and to be able to leave when I wanted to. I am going to start doing that more often. It is funny how something that simple can make such a huge difference right?


Did you all have a nice Thanksgiving? I hope so. My kids did have the whole week off so that was hard for some of them who thrive on routine. But, we made it through and now they are back in school. I know the holidays can be a hard time to so I am going to try my best to stay nonreactive and focus on myself. I will take any tips you have for doing that