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Threadtastic Postaholic
Member Since Dec 2018
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#1
I was wondering how people felt about lying. Is it ever ok to lie? I am talking more about white and gray lies.
An example of a white lie would be someone is throwing your friend a surprise party and its your job to get the friend somewhere or throw them off the trail. You tell that friend you are going somewhere or doing something in order to get them to a certain place for the party. Or you have a friend who is trying to look good for a date and they are in an outfit that they really like. They ask you if they look ok and you are faced with sharing your opinion honestly or telling them that the outfit isn't flattering. Gray lies are like self protection lies. You are having a bad depression day and are supposed to meet a friend for lunch. You do not think you can go without losing it so you call the friend and tell them you forgot about a prior obligation because you do not want them to know what is happening with your mental health. Or you are a newly sober alcoholic and a friend who isn't your best friend but is a good friend wants you to go to a bar to see a band. You do not want to tell them you are not ready to go to a bar due to the alcoholism so you say you have plans or are sick. Or you have to get an abusive BF/GF/toxic friend to leave you alone. You tell them you have an uncle who is a cop and they will be looking into things or protecting you. These may not be the best examples and more examples are welcome. It is very important for me to be honest but at the same time I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings. And in certain cases saying "no" to something isnt enough and it requires a different answer but out of self preservation it has to be a lie- is that ok? Is it ok to lie sometimes but not others? Do you think most people lie at least a little? __________________ "I carried a watermelon?" President of the no F's given society. |
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MickeyCheeky
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DazedandConfused254, Fuzzybear, MickeyCheeky, mote.of.soul
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#2
I hate lying and liars. That said, the truth is relative and sometimes self preservation is more important than the truth. Operative word there being "sometimes."
__________________ What if I fall? Oh, my dear, but what if you fly? Primary Dx: C-PTSD and Severe Chronic Treatment Resistant Major Depressive Disorder Secondary Dx: Generalized Anxiety Disorder with mild Agoraphobia. Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien Treatments I've done: CBT, DBT, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), Talk therapy, psychotherapy, exercise, diet, sleeping more, sleeping less... |
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MickeyCheeky
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MickeyCheeky
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Legendary
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#3
I do believe everyone lies a little bit, sarahsweets! Of course it depends on WHAT KIND of lies we're talking about! I believe all of the examples that you've mentioned are VERY valid because you're not really hurting anyone by saying those lies! Of course when I say "hurting" I mean both in the short run and in the long run! We may have to tell the truth earlier, even though it's painfult, to avoid escalations and it becoming worse! I do believe that it depends on everyone's morality and that lying a little bit about certain topics isn't too bad as long as it doesn't become too frequent! I'm so sorry if I wasn't too clear! That's just my opinion of course! Sending many hugs to EVERYONE!
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Anonymous46341, DazedandConfused254
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DazedandConfused254, mote.of.soul
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#4
Examples that you used aren’t really lies but more like things you have to say trying to protect yourself. I think those examples of “lies” are perfectly ok. No one got hurt.
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MickeyCheeky
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MickeyCheeky, mote.of.soul
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Poohbah
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#5
Most of us tell white lies and its a case of “no harm,no foul”. However, its usually just as easy to come up with a statement that is hazy but actually true. I try to almost always avoid lying because if I am caught doing it, the person wont trust me. My best friend really understands me because her son is bipolar and she doesn’t want to get me worrying and instead likes to get me thinking about researching something that might help me. However, I think she does this too much and I have recently called her on it. Because of my disorder I have mildly distorted perceptions sometimes, so tho I dont want to be obsessing about the wrong things, I dont need someone messing me up by giving me a distorted sense of reality. Example: She and her family have been taking a lot of day trips hundreds of miles out of town. I finally asked her if they were looking for retirement property. Then the whole story came out that her daughter was going to retire upstate. Then she said they would still keep their house in town. Well, now I dont know whether to believe that. They are spending $200,000 in their HOA on landscaping, which isn’t needed. That is something you want if you are going to sell. If she is going to be gone, I really need to move up my thoughts about moving near my son in San Diego. So I guess the truthfulness of what you might tell a stranger or a casual acquaintance and what you should tell a close friend if you want them to trust you would be different.
__________________ Bipolar 2 with anxious distress mixed states & rapid cycling under severe stress tegretol 200 mg wellbutrin 75 mg, cut in half or higher dose as needed Regular aerobic exercise SKILLSET/KNOWLEDGE BASE: Family Medical Advocate Masters in Library Science Multiple Subject Teaching Credential-15 yrs in public schools |
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MickeyCheeky
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MickeyCheeky, mote.of.soul
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Pandita-in-training
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#6
I think one has to remember that a lot of what we think and say are from our perspective and not True or False. There's always something positive/negative one can say in just about any situation and even though the positive/negative may/may not be true/false, one's heart & attitude says a lot. If you love someone and are trying to surprise them, asking them to ride along with you as you go to the fire hall to enquire about something, when you know everyone is there getting ready for a party for that person; it is only your special knowledge that makes you feel it is a lie; only that the other person does not know. One can feel sneaky withholding information but that's one's background/own issues getting in the way of giving someone else joy?
I remember when my husband asked me to marry him and I called my parents to tell them and my stepmother explained she already knew, my husband had gone to them and asked my father for my hand. I remember a small feeling of being cheated of other's deciding things for me and knowing things before I did, etc. But that was me and my background and my issue. Likewise; not sharing with someone about one's mental health; that can feel bad because we wish we did not "have to" get out of the lunch, we wish we were straightforward. Remember, everything you do, you are doing the best you can! If it is not the best you can, then that is a problem you have to grapple with but usually we do what we do and cannot do any other (yet/at that time) or we would do the other? Looking back we can often see how we would have done things better but the truth is we are all doing the best we can with what we have right now. Maybe some day we will simply rejoice in the pleasure we think we will be giving someone else or we'll be able to say, "I don't feel well today, can I take a raincheck on lunch?" and reschedule without guilt. But guilt is good, it can help us look at the situation and our motives and what we're doing with our lives and see how we can do better or where we have opportunities for growth; how to figure out what we want and what that might look like? __________________ "Never give a sword to a man who can't dance." ~Confucius |
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MickeyCheeky
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hvert, MickeyCheeky
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Jimi the rat
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#7
Not fond of lies about important things, but to simplify, yea the truth will just cause trouble or wasted time.
I can't believe someone is always telling the truth. I think that would be impossible. __________________ |
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MickeyCheeky
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MickeyCheeky
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Magnate
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#8
I lie as much as I need to protect myself and get my needs met. I stay within ethics and no lies to where anyone gets hurt or loses anything.
__________________ When a child’s emotional needs are not met and a child is repeatedly hurt and abused, this deeply and profoundly affects the child’s development. Wanting those unmet childhood needs in adulthood. Looking for safety, protection, being cherished and loved can often be normal unmet needs in childhood, and the survivor searches for these in other adults. This can be where survivors search for mother and father figures. Transference issues in counseling can occur and this is normal for childhood abuse survivors. |
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MickeyCheeky
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MickeyCheeky
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Wise Elder
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#9
Quote:
lets put it this way is sarahsweets your real biological name or are you lying (using a made up name is called lying, pretending to be someone you are not is called lying..) of course thats not your real name right. but for your safety and such you need to tell this lie. my point is in every day life it is now acceptable to tell a lie. its just a matter of knowing when in your own lives you want to tell the truth and when you dont. its normal for friends to lie instead of hurting their friends feelings. I mean come on who wants their best friend to walk up to them and say "that shirt looks like S....... on you." its also normal for americans to not want to disclose their mental and physical challenges and to make some sort of excuse even if that excuse is a lie. in fact here in america we have privacy laws wrapped around the fact that its no ones business to know about whether someone is an alcoholic, or mentally disordered and such things. as a result of these privacy laws its perfectly acceptable and ok to tell someone an excuse/ lie if we dont want to disclose our mental and physical health problems. lying to get someone to a surprise party of course thats ok. other wise human beings wouldnt have been doing that since the dawn of surprise parties. thats actually part of the necessity of a surprise party, or else what are you going to say .. hey come on I need to take you to your surprise party. " its not a surprise party if the person the party is for knows about it lol as for lying because of abusive bf and so on, well thats all part of the abuse. abusers code is do not tell or else.....so the one being abused has no choice but to tell a lie when needed to cover up the abuse. its not the victims fault and they are not doing anything wrong by telling the lies they need to, in order to ensure their own survival and that of those that the abuser is threatening. |
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MickeyCheeky
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MickeyCheeky
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#10
I think you are just feeling common anxiety.
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MickeyCheeky
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MickeyCheeky
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#11
Honestly.... no pun intended.... I have come to believe it’s better to tell the little white and gray lies. I used to be so blunt and I found that it didn’t make life easier for other people any more than it did for myself. Our society seems to be more comfortable with sugar coating everything...
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Fuzzybear, MickeyCheeky
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DazedandConfused254, MickeyCheeky
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#12
I would say it's never okay to lie, but I will admit there are extreme instances where it is the least of all evils.
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MickeyCheeky
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#13
Lying is an essential part of the human condition. That's why we have evolved with the ability to do so. Within limits, it is healthy and natural and makes the human world go round.
You are living with alzheimer's disease in a medical facility and ask me why your husband has not shown up yet. Your husband is deceased but you have no capacity to remember that because neurological disease has destroyed your hippocampus. "He probably got stuck in traffic. You know how it gets for him on that commute after work. I'll let you know when he shows up" (you ask me the same Q in 5 minutes and don't remember having asked the first time) You are my friend and love your new haircut but I think it's far from flattering and you ask what I think. "You look lovely!" You are my girlfriend. I just met your mother for the first time. She was bizarre and did not present with good boundaries. You are close to your mother and ask what I thought of her. "She was lovely. I'm glad I got to meet her." (boundary issues will be addressed later on a case by case basis without a direct assessment of mama bear's character) You are my date and want to go on another date with me but I never want to see you again....I was terribly bored the whole time. "I enjoyed meeting you but I don't see this developing. Best wishes to you." You are driving me home in your Uber vehicle and ask if I am single. "Nope. My husband is waiting for me. He's a cop." You are my abusive partner and ask where I was when I came home late after a doctor appointment where I asked about women's shelters. "I had to return a cracked glass to the store, those ones we bought the other day" You don't respect boundaries and want my money. "I don't have any money on me." You are the daughter of a terminally ill mother who recently died. As medical POA, you made medical decisions which caused your mother more suffering because you could not let go of her. You were psychologically unable to put your dying mother's needs before your own. You ask me if I think you made the wrong choices prior to her death. "You did the very best you could. You loved her. You supported her. You have nothing to feel badly about." You are my friend living with PTSD and just told me you threw a drink in your bf's face after you saw him kissing another woman. You ask if I think that was a terrible thing to do. "I think you were shocked love. And you responded in the moment out of shock. Maybe you'd like to chat with a therapist?" You are my friend. You cooked dinner for me. It was bad. You ask me how it was. "It was delicious. Thank you very much." You just started dating a guy and think he's wonderful but I think he's obnoxious though your life is not in jeopardy. "I enjoyed meeting him. Thanks for setting this up!" You are my partner and I love you. You ask if I think you have gained some weight. "I didn't notice love. I think you look great." I could go on Lying can save us, save others, and maintain peace and harmony in our corner of the world. Some lying is obviously unhealthy and not okay but I doubt that I need to specify those examples. Last edited by Anonymous44076; May 28, 2019 at 12:07 AM.. |
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DazedandConfused254, MickeyCheeky
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amandalouise, DazedandConfused254, MickeyCheeky, sarahsweets
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#14
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Legendary Wise Elder
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#15
I feel like lying is ok in certain situations. I got invited to go out to dinner with a couple coworkers and ex coworkers. I will absolutely not be going to it. I just have to figure out an excuse that sounds logical so they don’t realize I’m not going because I just don’t like them. But if I’ve done something and people don’t know I’m the one who’s done it I don’t own up to my mistake. I don’t really find that lying if they never ask me in the first place. More like getting away with something. I’ll tell them I did it if they ask though. I guess I’m not the most honest person, but it hasn’t gotten me into trouble. Sorry if I got off topic.
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Jimi the rat
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#16
My most common lie... How are you? OK!
I mean, I don't wanna worry the crap out of people who have issues with mental and physical health themselves. __________________ |
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mote.of.soul
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#17
I think it's okay to bend the truth a little sometimes especially if it's related to ones mental health issues. Society just can't handle the straight up honesty regarding mental health a lot of the time, then start leaping to all kinds of immature, ill-informed assumptions about the person - and that sucks - which I know from my own experience. If I want to avoid or cancel something on mental health grounds I basically just say I feel sick [which to me is actually very true, ha]. But if I have a trusting relationship with the person I'll give more detail. But I hear what you're saying as well - I don't like lying either. Just don't tell whoppers which I doubt you would ever do.
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Legendary
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#18
I pretty much go with the societal norm in everything. As you can see on this thread, the general consensus is that major lies are not ok but small, non hurtful lies are ok. The matter of what is or isn’t ok lies with each person and we all have our own set of personal rules and morals.
In business, I’ve had people majorly lie. As the professional, I know they are lying, but I just gloss over it, not letting them get away with it, but not confronting them for it. __________________ "And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!" . About Me--T |
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#19
Hi SS! I have had the same questions too in my battle between self preservation and seeing about everybody else’s needs. I used to believe that it was never ok to lie, but as my psyche has matured, so has the ability to think in a grayscale level of thought of the topic rather than B&W. What I mean is that I have begun to see benefits in not sharing the entire truth rather than share everything and then get viewed as selfish or rude later on.
I can think of many examples of the “lies” that you bring to the table. When I was still in grad school, I was involved in a class that was far beyond my level of expertise and required long hours even just to be as familiar with the subject as my classmates. After a couple of all-nighters, I finally just had to email my classmates to tell them I was sick and I needed the following day’s worth of notes instead of tell them I stayed up all night just trying to understand that class’s material. I was a fish out of water in that engineering class, so I ended up dropping that class for that semester. When I discovered that I could not play a Netflix with my family visiting from out of town because a friend had borrowed my remotes several months ago, I had to get them back from this person who is notorious about taking advantage of other’s possessions and time. He wanted to come over to my place to give them back, but to prevent him from lingering at my place when I got busy with finals and projects for school, I told him my place was a mess so I did the job at his house instead of mine. My place wasn’t at its absolute worst at that point in time but it has gotten that way before when I have been anxious or busy, thus technically I still felt like it was a valid explanation. As divine1966 wonderfully puts it, I hope you take peace in knowing what you shared and what I have given in my examples aren’t really “lies” because you can still give a truthful overview about your situation while also preserving your resources in the process. Glad you asked this question! __________________ DX'd Moderate GAD and depression in April 2021. But it is only a part of me, not defining me. "If you can dream it you can do it!" ~ Walt Disney |
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