[katheryn]

well i have been worried sick about how to handle my stupid neice whos been driving around with her one year old on front seat without a car seat, after talking to others it seems i was not the only one concerned, but they only told her or the father of the child, over the last year, so they are not listning to sense then and or possibly dont understand how dangerous it is a child that size being in a front seat of a car without proper restraints grr, on top of this i find out she has no licence which means her car wont have a mot or tax or insurance all the things the law says you need to drive on the roads, mot to say car is fit to be on the road a licence to say you are fit to be driving, tax everybody pays if you own a vehicle, insurance just in case of accidents

well the police has made a log of this and just phoned me bk to check information and the car is registered to her mother not her, so they will look into this, caught without insurance they can take car away the rest i dont know what they will do

but i have told the father of the child that he should say something but he wont

complecated story as shes my neice and the bays father is hubbys brother so this child is related to me well

Hello, katheryn. Thank you for being concerned about the child. Pax Vobiscum.

[katheryn]

had to look that up ty

[therealme]

my brother and his ex, should have there heads banged together, im still not sure if a police officer talking to them would make a blind bit of difference ... the only way the may learn is to remove the car.
i just hope the car is removed or they learn not to be so stupid, before its too late, and they lose that wonderful child for good.

[salukigirl]

Can't someone step in to charge her with child endangerment? I would rather childrens services come in and express how horrible it is rather than just taking the car away. Does she not think the child will get hurt or does she not think she will get in an accident? Her reasoning could explain a little more. If she just thinks she's invincible then, yeah, sounds like shes just dumb. But I don't think people who do these blatantly dangerous things should have kids in the first place.

Sorry if thats harsh. But if she puts that child in danger like that, who knows what else she does to endanger her.

[AAAAA]

What is wrong with people these days?!? Letting your child ride without being in a car seat is my ultimate pet peeve. In my opinion it's child abuse. I don't understand people that think the rules only apply to other people.

[Elysium]

I think you did the right thing talking to the police. Someone needed to stand up and advocate for the child's safety. That's normally the parent's responsibility, but it seems that your niece feels she is above the laws, regulations, and responsibilities that come with being a parent.

Sorry...don't want to bash on your family...but this is just a tragedy waiting to happen and children in cars without proper restraints/seating just happens to be one of my pet peeves.

I really hope the police step in and intervene for the little one's sake.

[lynn P.]

You did the right thing. A child shouldn't be in the front seat, even with a car seat. Here is Canada, it's the law that all children be in the back and children must be in a booster until they're 8 yrs old. A child has to be 9yrs old before they're old enough to sit in the front seat. The airbag can literally break a child's neck if it goes off in an accident. I can't believe someone could be so neglegent

[VickiesPath]

I agree with everything that's been said here. When my son was young, I did not start the engine until all seat belts were fastened.

That being said, I grew up riding without seat belts or car seats. One suggestion: If someone absolutely refuses to buy a car seat or doesn't have one, see if you can talk them into placing the child in a well-padded laundry basket in the floor of the car and take a kitchen towell (what we call a tea towell) and tie it across the middle of the basket. The more padding you can put around the child and immobilize them, the less likely they are to bump against something and get hurt. Also, place padding around their head to keep it from going side to side.

I'm not sure about older children. Perhaps, padding them with blankets to make them more secure?

[AAAAA]

Vickie I normally agree with most everything you say. But I have to disagree here. There should never be a need to use a laundry basket in lieu of a car seat. Many non-profit organizations provide car seats on loan so that you never have to transport a child without being in a proper car seat. These seats are also designed to protect children from the safety features such as air bags. The thing you suggest would offer no protection whatsoever from the force of a side airbag deploying.

I understand that Kathryn is in the UK and organizations and laws may be different there, but in the end what it boils down to in my opinion is if you don't have the proper tools you don't do the job. Leave the child home until you can obtain a car seat.

I know here you cannot even bring your newborn home from the hospital without the nurse (and what qualifications they have idk) checking to see that you have the proper seat and that it is installed correctly. In the event you do not have one, they will loan one to you.

My kids never fussed about getting into a car seat, then a booster seat because there was never a choice involved. If you're in a car or a plane, you're in your seat. My cousin was rather lax about this once her kids became toddlers. We took them on a vacation with us and her son (five at the time) started to put up a fuss, I told him my car doesn't work with kids out of car seats. He made a six hour trip one way (with stops of course) without complaint again. I realize that kids behave much better for anyone other than their parents, but it was only laziness that prevented my cousin from following through with this in her own vehicle.

[katheryn]

our laws are diferant,
hospitals dont allow you to leave without a suable carrseat for a newborn, that came in not long before i had my last child who is now 16yrs

Children under three years of age must use a child restraint (see below) that is appropriate for their weight (when travelling in any vehicle). Rear-facing baby seats must not be used in a seat fitted with an air-bag (unless it has been deactivated).
In vehicles with fitted seat belts, children three years of age and over (up to 135 cms/4ft 5in) in height must use the appropriate child restraint.

• baby seats - rear-facing and for children up to 13 kgs (approx age birth to 9-12 months);
• child seats - forward facing and for children 9 kgs to 18 kgs (approx 9 months to 4 years);
• booster seats - for children 15 kgs to 25 kgs (approx 4 to 6 years);
• booster cushions - for children 6 years and up.

Seat belts are best for people over 5ft/150 cms tall, and with an adult bone structure. Children under that age or height need child seats and boosters to put them in the right position to fully benefit from the protection offered by adult seat belts.

[lynn P.]

We have the same laws in Canada. I also want to point out how important it is, to use the car seat the right way, double checking if it clicks when you're hooking the child up and also if the seat is snuggliy secured to the car. Booster seats are very important because without it, the seat belt rests along the child's neck.

[VickiesPath]

I agree that it's a tragedy to not use every single means available to keep a child safe. And I agree with all the laws requiring child seats and boosters to be used. You would never see me nowdays with a child in my car without the proper legal equipment and the child restrained properly.

However, what I was referring to was the original post which started this discussion about transporting this baby in the two-seater car with NOTHING to protect it from harm. You can bet there are others out there who are still doing it. Do you think that it isn't easy to borrow a child seat long enough to take a baby home from the hospital?

I am not trying to be cynical, simply realistic. Yes, every child deserves to be safe. But what did my mother do? Seat belts weren't invented until I was 14 years old. And they were not required to be worn by law until long after that. She had 4 children and somehow, we all lived.

I'm not meaning to be beligerant. I'm simply saying that there are people out there driving around with children unrestrained. I, personally, see them every day here in Phoenix due to our large immigrant population. Some of these people aren't going to go to those places and get free child seats...they are too afraid.

[AAAAA]

I see your point, but the fact remains if you don't have the proper car seat, leave the kid at home. I remember driving cross country laying in the rear view window. I don't think the car seat had even been invented at that time. I do recall a "pumpkin" seat. It wasn't strapped in or anything, but something that kept the baby from rolling on the floor. I remember my Aunt laying her baby on the back seat when I was little.

People are more aware now of the dangers of not having the child secure. AND as referenced in Tim's thread, cars back then were built like tanks. They did not go as fast as normal traffic does now. And I don't know how things were where you grew up, but in my home town many many people did not even own a car. The idea of commuting to your place of employment was unheard of. But then again, on a Saturday afternoon it wasn't unusual for my dad to grab a case of beer and me and about 10 of my cousins would pile into the bed of a pick up truck for the 3 mile trip to the beach. If you were over the age of 9 you could sit on the side, you didn't even have to sit on the bed itself. Everyone in town did this for decades, some dumb @ss' still do it to this day (beer included), doesn't mean it's ok.

------------------------------TRIGGER WARNING----------------------------------



Things like this hit a raw nerve with me. One friend absolutely refused to speak to me again over a similar incident. We live in farm country. A co-worker was tilling his farm with his toddler on his lap, the child fell off and went through the blades. The child did not survive. My response was "what the hell was he thinking!!!!" This friend defended him by saying "we've all done it." There is a child severely injured every single year by doing this. Yet people do not learn.

The laws haven't caught up with it yet. It is still perfectly legal for a 12 year old child to drive a huge piece of farm equipment on the roads. These things are HUGE, take up both lanes of traffic to the point the combine must drive on the shoulder of the road, and it leaves all other traffic the shoulder of the other side to drive on. FOR BOTH DIRECTIONS! They only safety feature this stupid thing must have is a reflective triangle on the back. I can't tell you how many times I've come around the corner and found one of these things taking up the whole road in the dark.

[ECHOES]

You did absolutely the right thing. I admire you for not looking away!
The consequences they are facing are theirs alone.

[katheryn]

a lot of you might now i also have a facebook account, on there you can join groups that you think are worth while well as the car seat is worth while i saught out a group car seat saves lives and sent a request to all my friends and so far a good majority 165 have joined hubby then sent it to the friends that i dont have on his list and they joined , and on my list are both the parents and the father msged me yesterday and asked what was it about

duh what it say

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#/g...1899066&ref=ts

[AAAAA]

Some people are just really thick. I'd use that opportunity to pipe in about how very important it is for children to be in car seats.

[ECHOES]

Maybe you could help him understand it isn't about judging, but about loving and caring for those who are unable to do for themselves.

[Perna]

If she doesn't have a required license, the child without a car seat is almost secondary! I would report that and have the car taken away and the mother fined (for giving the keys to someone without a license). To heck with her own stupidity in deciding to be reckless, I don't want anyone on the road that might hurt ME and mine! Driving isn't just physical, there are tests about the traffic rules! I don't care if she knows how to turn a wheel, hit me with no license and there will be jail time and what happens to her child and the family then?

Kathryn, you and your family's and other people's safety is much more important than what your niece feels about you! I think you do her no favors trying to be "kind".

[katheryn]

thank you for all the good replys, i know lots of ppl do drive without proper licence and insurance and yes you are right it takes more than just knowing how to turn a wheel even though i have been driving now for 7yrs i still make mistakes and think do i know enough to be driving, and when i make those mistakes as i know they are mistakes i double think would i of put someone in danger, i dont know what i would do if i ever did cause a accident, hopefully i wont find out, but over the last month road conditions have been bad with ice snow black ice fog and rain those things alone can make a experiance driver have a accident let alone someone who hasnt passed there test

i also worry if she was driving with that child only strapped in on the front seat had acccident and child thrown free who would now he was there, how far can a small bundle be transported under a collision

[catrules]

Preceding this with the knowledge that laws are different from country to country, and state to state. But, I had to go out on a number of calls with this as the issue. And I would often get the reply, "I never had a car seat or wore a seat belt when I was a kid". They were usually the same people I had to do safety plans with about injuries resulting from physical discipline, to which the response often was, "I used to get hit at least five times a week, and I turned out fine." And my response would usually be that just because things were like that thirty years ago, does not mean that they are wise, or prudent actions in any case. It's like a heart patient refusing bypass surgery because it did not exist 50 years ago.

On a lighter note, the law in PA is that you have to ride in a seat or booster until five feet, or 100 pounds. I always wondered then about little people who are 30, but don't meet those requirements. I also learned after transporting a 10 year old in the front seat for a family visit that the state law mandates that kids are to sit in the backseat until age 12, and me in a government issued vehicle. oops

[katheryn]

yes things were differant when we were kids i used to travel in my dads car and aunts with out restraints, and when my aunt used to pick kids up for a church youth group her estate car was full of kids back and front but today ppl drive so much faster, and all it takes is a small knock and half the car is in the back when its meant to be in the front

[Shangrala]

What absolutely blows me away about the child safety laws is, why, in God's name are these laws so strictly enforced (which I strongly support) regarding the proper seats in our personal vehicles ....yet, (that I'm aware of)...no school buses, public buses or taxis regulate these very necessary security features?

To me, this is absolutely baffling. Another typical contradiction to most of how American society operates.

Shangrala

[aimeesh]

is it a possibility that they can't actually afford a new carseat?

[aimeesh]

oh, and BTW what she is doing is most definitely illegal in CA, and probably all states. It IS very dangerous and stupid of her.... i was just wondering if maybe she was too embarrassed to say she can't afford a car seat. I hope she's not doing this by choice.