[pachyderm]

Do you ever think about times past, say the Roman Empire, and wonder if everyone there accepted stories, such as all the many gods they had -- gods who were very human and many of them of not very good character. Or all the explanations for the rise of the Romans, or Greeks, or the nature of "barbarians"? From the small amount I have read about it, I guess not everyone believed the accepted tales, and many were caused heartburn having to keep their true beliefs silent, or became cynical about all the myths. It could be dangerous to say what you thought, if it differed from 'accepted' belief. But what did the common people think, in general? I guess we will never know, because they left very little of substance to tell us how they lived, what they thought.

I think to times ahead: will the future people say "how could they survive in those times [our times, us], with all the misinformation they had, with all the 'noise' in the system? Did they all swallow that guff?"

I want to tell them: no, there were a few of us who were skeptical, who did not proclaim certainty about the answers to all questions. In truth, we did survive, but not well. Proof of how dearly all that "noise" cost us is seen in all the violence, the wars, the dysfunction in our societies. We have made noticeable progress over earlier civilizations in some areas, in others not so much.

I suppose this is all to be expected if we accept that we are evolved from earlier animals. Imagine the first pre-human who one day had time to spare from the daily hunt for food, who started to become aware, who looked around and said "Hey! What is all this 'stuff' around me? Who am I? How did I get to be here? Am I alone? What does all this mean? SCARY!!!! I think I want to forget about it, run away. This 'awareness' is too much for me!"

[lizardlady]

Pachy, your post makes me think of the old saying about the winner of a war getting to write the history.

I believe there have probably been disbelievers as long as there have been beliefs. It's a major contributor to wars around the world. Not the only cause, but a contributing factor.

I work with two people who are of a particular faith (I am intentionally not saying which). There are only three of us in the office. I am not a believer in their faith. They have been extremely unpleasant to me in the past because I do not follow their beliefs. Personally I respect another's right to believe whatever they want as long as they don't try to force it on others. To quote Rodney King (though he was talking about race relations) "Can't we all just get along?"

[Travelinglady]

One thing about it, it can't ALL be true! I have chosen to accept certain ideas about the origin of life, the afterlife, etc. I feel better having something to anchor me. However, I don't try to cram my thoughts down other people's throats, and I have had friends who have had all sorts of ideas. I think it's wrong to be "mean" to people who don't see things like I do. (However, I admit to sometimes wondering how they could believe the things they do--and I'm sure they feel the same way about me!)

History is certainly biased. Case in point, we are now hearing more about "herstory" and the contributions of African-Americans to America.

I definitely believe dwelling on this stuff can drive folks off the deep end.

[Timgt5]

All things are a matter of what you chose to have faith in or not.

As the great prog rock group Rush, once said,

"you can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice, if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"

In the end everything becomes perception. Even during ancient times there were secret cults that were drowned out by the more mainstream mythologies. No doubt there were people who did not buy into the narrative, but those were much more dangerous times to not get with the established program than they are now, where people can be openly skeptical.

I tend to think that the Greeks and Romans liked to assign their Gods human qualities and failings as a means to bond and relate to them. The pantheon is symbolic of all they observed of the human condition and their Gods were personal embodiements.

I tend to be wary of anyone who says this is "established" when the very next day someone could discover something that proves it all wrong. So I think it is best to synthesize beliefs from what you know, just keeping in mind that those are beliefs you chose to adopt,

Just remember that there is always some yet to be discovered truth that could change all of it in an instant.

[Travelinglady]

History is to some extent in the eye of the beholder. Even these days, the media pick what they think are the most interesting stories to air or print. And they can play up or down the significance of what they do air by camera shenanigans and commentary or as far as newspapers, print a story on the first page or bury it in the middle of "trivialities." And journalists can bias what they say by diction and by what they emphasize. (Consider "the car hit the telephone pole" versus "the car rammed into the telephone pole....)

I saw an article one time about the limits of archeology. It depicted future archeologists uncovering a 20th century house and trying to draw conclusions. A TV set was viewed by them as a likely god, since it had all the seats facing it. (Well, THAT might have some truth to it.) Stoppers in bathrooms were perceived as likely earrings, etc. Speaking of guff!

I bought a book recently called "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James W. Loewen. He examined school history books and noted all sorts of discrepancies and misleading information, as well as just complete "revision" or omissions. What we learned about history in school might have plain been wrong in some cases! Scary. Guff, again?

[mirieri]

This is so interesting. Even as hard as I find it to be a non-believer in today's society, I can't even begin to fathom the troubles one must have gone through in the past. Religion was so integral to one's everyday life back then, and every decision seemed to be based on the favor or disfavor of some higher being. I can only assume there would have been many more difficulties considering the lack of technological advances and scientific evidence to disprove some of their beliefs. Heck, it's hard even in present day society to get people to truly think critically about their faith and the world around them despite all of our current knowledge.

No matter how much evidence we gather, or how many religious ideas we debunk and disprove, there will always be people there to plug their ears and close their eyes to these truths. It matters not what science uncovers, for they are still afraid of that which helped form their beliefs in the first place: the unknown. We need to feel safe and reassured in this world, whether it be from the confirmation of facts and coming to terms with the unknown in a peaceful way, or the reassurance of a higher power giving us warm fluffy invisible hugs from space telling us we can live forever in their magic kingdoms filled with rainbows and sparkles. (But only if you follow every single inane rule somebody way back when wrote down for reasons unbeknownst to us)

Whoa, didn't mean to get so snarky at the end there. But I have certainly have had my share of folks telling me to go to hell because I choose to think critically about our universe instead of believing fairy tales.

As for what the future holds? Well if the present is any indication, only more skepticism. There will always be religion. There will always be people arguing about it. But I truly think that we will one day reach a point where there will be more nonbelievers than believers. It can be the only logical outcome of a society that is constantly advancing and finding reasons behind this madness we call life.