I'm currently reading a book by Pema Chodron titled: The Places That Scare You. This morning I came across a couple of passages that stopped me for a moment. (These are on pages 130 & 131, if you happen to own the book.)

The 1st passage read: "Bodhisattvas are to be found among thieves and prostitutes and murderers." (Traditionally, a bodhisattva is anyone who, motivated by great compassion, has generated bodhicitta, which is a spontaneous wish to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.[1] - Wikipedia)

The 2nd passage read: "...we sometimes have to tell a lie in order to protect someone from harm."

As I wrote above, these two passages stopped me. Okay, I can accept bodhisattvas as thieves and prostitutes. But murderers? I have to admit I stumble over that one. Somehow, for me, a murderer is someone who has gone beyond the pale, as they say. I find it difficult to imagine a person who has murdered someone being able to be or become a bodhisattva; although I'm certainly familiar with the idea of the death row conversion. Somehow it all seems just a bit too easy.

On the other hand, I agree with the idea you sometimes have to lie to protect someone from harm... no problem there for me. But I guess I was taken aback reading it in a book by a Buddhist nun.

So, anyway, I'm wondering how these two passages strike others. Thanks for taking the time to read my post!

[Hobbit House]

I think Buddha had a notorious murderer as one of his followers. I don't remember the details though.

As far as lying to protect someone from harm, I'm sure the Buddha would agree

[vonmoxie]

1. Sometimes one who has done a terrible wrong, can become a person of deep humility and compassion afterwards, more so perhaps than some who have lived a life of little error. I have known some persons just like this.

2. There is many a sin of omission I have maintained in the knowledge that the other person would be hurt unnecessarily by knowing certain things. It's not to protect myself, as in fact it would be releasing for me to unburden the information, but I feel it would be selfish to do so in some situations.

IMHO.

[waiting4]

Originally Posted by The Skeezyks

The 1st passage read: "Bodhisattvas are to be found among thieves and prostitutes and murderers." (Traditionally, a bodhisattva is anyone who, motivated by great compassion, has generated bodhicitta, which is a spontaneous wish to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.[1] - Wikipedia)

I don't know if I am reading the quote correctly (although certainly not the way you are) but my take is that often good people can be found among bad people, whether trying to 'help' them, 'save' them or being taken advantage of by the 'bad' ones. And if any of those situations arise while they are in the company of said 'bad' people, then I can see them becoming 'bodhisattva'

I guess I don't read that just being 'found among' these people means they too, are murderers, prostitutes or thieves.

Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Hobbit House

I think Buddha had a notorious murderer as one of his followers. I don't remember the details though.

As far as lying to protect someone from harm, I'm sure the Buddha would agree

Yes, I believe you are thinking of Malarpa. He supposedly wore a necklace of fingers from his victims. I am an erstwhile student of Lojong & Tonglen practice. Lojong & Tonglen were brought to the west by the late Rinpoche Chogyam Trungpa. It's current primary teacher is the Buddhist nun Ani Pema Chodron.

There are many video clips, on YouTube, from talks Ani Pema has given. She is quite elderly now. And her approach to Buddhism is very delicate. She is SO gentle, it is easy to forget that the practices of Lojong & Tonglen were, according to tradition, developed by & for individuals whom one might describe as: "unsavory" or perhaps "disturbed"... people probably not unlike allot of us here on PC! Malarpa was supposedly within this lineage. This is why I am drawn to this practice.

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

1. Sometimes one who has done a terrible wrong, can become a person of deep humility and compassion afterwards, more so perhaps than some who have lived a life of little error. I have known some persons just like this.

2. There is many a sin of omission I have maintained in the knowledge that the other person would be hurt unnecessarily by knowing certain things. It's not to protect myself, as in fact it would be releasing for me to unburden the information, but I feel it would be selfish to do so in some situations.

IMHO.

Yes... I am one of these...