[tony fudo]

New research shows that giving LSD to those suffering from terminal cancer helps them to come to terms with their imminent demise, as it has the effect of diminishing their 'egocentric' mind set.

If this is the case, what are the moral grounds for denying free access to this experience?

Originally Posted by tony fudo

New research shows that giving LSD to those suffering from terminal cancer helps them to come to terms with their imminent demise, as it has the effect of diminishing their 'egocentric' mind set.

If this is the case, what are the moral grounds for denying free access to this experience?

I'm not sure what the moral high grounds are but I don't think the people who make and enforce the laws are real consistent with their morals code.

[eskielover]

People can come to terms with their "imminent demise" without the use of LSD.....I don't think that there is a moral ground for giving something like that to a dying person.

Who cares what kind of mind set they have at that point?

Originally Posted by eskielover

People can come to terms with their "imminent demise" without the use of LSD.....I don't think that there is a moral ground for giving something like that to a dying person.

Who cares what kind of mind set they have at that point?

Terminal cancer patients can also come to their demise w/o pain meds but should they?
But it isn't your right to force your concept of morality on anyone else is it?
I care what kind of mindset they have for one.

[tony fudo]

What interests me is that I spend considerable effort in yoga and meditation trying, with various degrees of success, to achieve this 'egoless' state of mind. I wonder if I could take a pill, or if others could, that give the benefits, if that would be a valid course of action. The instant karma pill. Sounds tempting!

And if this were to be the case, what right the state would have in denying me access to it?

[LiteraryLark]

Originally Posted by tony fudo

New research shows that giving LSD to those suffering from terminal cancer helps them to come to terms with their imminent demise, as it has the effect of diminishing their 'egocentric' mind set.

If this is the case, what are the moral grounds for denying free access to this experience?

"Forget about cancer, have you seen the fire-breathing dragon in the waiting room?"

[unaluna]

[Sinking Feeling]

I love the feeling of LSD just on the verge of tripping, lower doses are really nice. Cross over to tripping and it can be heaven or hell.

If it was up to me I'd let adults take whatever they want.

Originally Posted by Sinking Feeling

I love the feeling of LSD just on the verge of tripping, lower doses are really nice. Cross over to tripping and it can be heaven or hell.

If it was up to me I'd let adults take whatever they want.

I agree as long as they don't operate dangerous machinery There isn't much logic to most drug laws.
The government thought it was perfectly okay for them to give LSD to unsuspecting test subjects.
Smoking tobacco is legal yet we know it kills.
Getting drunk is legal yet we know people still drive under the influence.
Maybe some corporate influence there?

[Agarwaen]

If it helps, it's all good to me. I could care less about moralizing the situation. Easing a person's passing is all I am interested in. In that case, whatever works.

As an aside, I have much personal experience with LSD. This is not an uninformed opinion. It must be a helluva lot better than misery and pain as a way to go.

If terminal patients were in a bad place, why not give them something to feel ok with what's about to happen to them. Like pain meds, it just masks what's there so why not enjoy the high ride.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by eskielover

People can come to terms with their "imminent demise" without the use of LSD.....I don't think that there is a moral ground for giving something like that to a dying person.

Who cares what kind of mind set they have at that point?

The individual at hand perhaps cares what kind of mindset they have at that point...if LSD can make it a little easier less scary to pass on into death, while getting the most out of the little bit of time you have left....why not give it to them? I did watch a documentary a while back that was talking about some studies where they've used psilocybin(otherwise known as the chemical in psychedelic mushrooms) to help terminal cancer patients deal with the mental turmoil and give them a greater appreciation and enjoyment of time they had left.

Though I think such things have therapeutic benefit outside of dying terminal illness patients...however not to say they are not without risk, ingesting such substances in the wrong setting or around negative/bad vibes can make for an unpleasant trip and in the midst of an unpleasant trip one could potentially act out dangerously....but as far as toxicity LSD has very low toxicity.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by KaraD

If terminal patients were in a bad place, why not give them something to feel ok with what's about to happen to them. Like pain meds, it just masks what's there so why not enjoy the high ride.

If I knew I was going to die and had like a couple weeks left....I know I'd probably want to do whatever I could to make that remaining time as pleasant as possible, and hopefully reduce some of the fears of passing on.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by tony fudo

What interests me is that I spend considerable effort in yoga and meditation trying, with various degrees of success, to achieve this 'egoless' state of mind. I wonder if I could take a pill, or if others could, that give the benefits, if that would be a valid course of action. The instant karma pill. Sounds tempting!

And if this were to be the case, what right the state would have in denying me access to it?

Or...combining a psychdelic substance such as LSD with yoga and meditation, now that could be an experience might have one reach that egoless state...then again perhaps DMT would be more appropriate 12 hours might be too long for such introspection. This is certainly a topic I am curious about....I have tried the dmt, but I did not close my eyes or try and meditate at all because I was afraid it would get too intense since it comes on so quick and strong, it was my first time so was more catious.

Originally Posted by eskielover

People can come to terms with their "imminent demise" without the use of LSD.....I don't think that there is a moral ground for giving something like that to a dying person.

Who cares what kind of mind set they have at that point?

I most certainly care.

[Wind1991]

A terminal cancer patient shouldn´t have to have hold backs. It not like you have to worry about your health and future. I get why lsd could be dangerous, but at that point it doesn't really matter. I dont see why you woudnt grant that as a final wish.
I know I would want to. I am curious as is, but I find it to scary to try. I heard that it was possible to get small flash trips after you did it.

[Agarwaen]

Originally Posted by eskielover

People can come to terms with their "imminent demise" without the use of LSD.....I don't think that there is a moral ground for giving something like that to a dying person.

Who cares what kind of mind set they have at that point?

Have you ever taken it?

And keep in mind they are talking about doses way below actually knowing you are on something.

Who cares? I bet the person dying sure does.

I don't believe it is for coming to terms with their imminent death. It helps with the pain. It helps with the anxiety. It helps.

No, doc. I am dying and in extreme pain, but I am morally against the use of painkillers, so I will just lie here, suffer, and die. I mean, the only way you truly know you are alive is when you are about to die.

[Achy Turtle Armor]

I love LSD. I've probably dropped acid 25 times or more in my life. Of course it's virtually impossible for me to get acid these days, especially good acid, couple that with the fact that I'd have to stop my antidepressants for a while. It doesn't work as well with antidepressants.

Anyway, I've taken it when I wasn't in the right state of mind, big mistake. I can't imagine if I were worried about dying that it would make for a good trip. Lower doses though? I don't have any experience with that. Wondering what mushrooms or peyote would do in the same scenario.

[Agarwaen]

Originally Posted by Achy Turtle Armor

I love LSD. I've probably dropped acid 25 times or more in my life. Of course it's virtually impossible for me to get acid these days, especially good acid, couple that with the fact that I'd have to stop my antidepressants for a while. It doesn't work as well with antidepressants.

Anyway, I've taken it when I wasn't in the right state of mind, big mistake. I can't imagine if I were worried about dying that it would make for a good trip. Lower doses though? I don't have any experience with that. Wondering what mushrooms or peyote would do in the same scenario.

No way would I dose while I was dying. Which is why I made sure to mention the dosages were non-mind-altering.

I can't take it anymore, myself. I had a bad trip about 20 years ago. Tried again, and the anxiety of having another bad trip ruined everything. One bad trip out of so many. And that was that.

I would be sorely tempted, if I could find some stuff I knew was the real deal, though. However, I am sure I would just fixate on my issues. Maybe it's because I am not young any longer, but I know I couldn't find any.

[RedBarchetta]

Personally I feel ALL drugs should essentially be over-the counter to any one terminal - with some minor doctor guidance - but not to denie anything - just to ensure the coctail being used is not in itself leathal.

That being said - I do know something about LSD (o.k., I have used it quite a few times years ago), and it is THE LAST thing I personally would want in that situation as from experience, you tend to get caught up in a single thought. - That could be good or bad depending on what it is - but I know I DEFINITELY would not want to for 8-12 hours not be able to even for a moment loss the thought that I am going to die, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

So in short - No I have no "problem" with it - but based on experience do not think it is a good idea at all......

[Agarwaen]

'Richard Yensen, Albert Kurland and other researchers collected evidence that psychedelic therapy could be of use to those suffering from anxiety and other problems associated with terminal illness. In 1965, research consisting of providing a psychedelic experience for the dying was conducted at the Spring Grove State Hospital in Maryland. Of 17 dying patients who received LSD after appropriate therapeutic preparation, one-third improved "dramatically", one-third improved "moderately", and one-third were unchanged by the criteria of reduced tension, depression, pain, and fear of death.[11]' - wikipedia

Ok. I don't know where I got the idea that these doses were extremely small. And I have no idea what a therapeutic dose might be. I tried to find out.

Interesting that there were no negative reactions at all. I guess 'appropriate therapeutic preparation' must really work. They do describe how and why they think it works. But I am not going to get all scientific.

The main thing, I think, is that the patients get real LSD. In my experience, clever people dilute it with other stuff. That could be the reason for my bad trip. And it could be the reason many people say 'no way.'

I preferred a smooth trip. Sometimes, though, I would practically get lock jaw, and muscle tension was outrageous. Having experienced the smoother way (mescaline is a perfect example), I have to figure the LSD on the streets today may not be 100% pure LSD.

Edit: If I could find 100% pure LSD, or even better, pure Mescaline, I wouldn't hesitate to give it a shot, being my own therapist, just to help with my issues. My main worry is the 'street' part of 'street drugs.'

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by Agarwaen

No way would I dose while I was dying. Which is why I made sure to mention the dosages were non-mind-altering.

I can't take it anymore, myself. I had a bad trip about 20 years ago. Tried again, and the anxiety of having another bad trip ruined everything. One bad trip out of so many. And that was that.

I would be sorely tempted, if I could find some stuff I knew was the real deal, though. However, I am sure I would just fixate on my issues. Maybe it's because I am not young any longer, but I know I couldn't find any.

I wouldn't bother if it was a non-mind altering dose...that would just make me edgy, that is what seems to happen if I don't take a large enough dose to trip, like my bodies waiting for it and it never comes...like an itch that wont go away. I guess I am of the opinion a dose high enough to trip could be theraputical for some....of course the purpose would not be to fixate on the negatives. The documentary I watched where they used psilocybin for cancer patients it was a high enough amount to trip...but it was in a safe/ comfortable setting.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by Agarwaen

'Richard Yensen, Albert Kurland and other researchers collected evidence that psychedelic therapy could be of use to those suffering from anxiety and other problems associated with terminal illness. In 1965, research consisting of providing a psychedelic experience for the dying was conducted at the Spring Grove State Hospital in Maryland. Of 17 dying patients who received LSD after appropriate therapeutic preparation, one-third improved "dramatically", one-third improved "moderately", and one-third were unchanged by the criteria of reduced tension, depression, pain, and fear of death.[11]' - wikipedia

Ok. I don't know where I got the idea that these doses were extremely small. And I have no idea what a therapeutic dose might be. I tried to find out.

Interesting that there were no negative reactions at all. I guess 'appropriate therapeutic preparation' must really work. They do describe how and why they think it works. But I am not going to get all scientific.

The main thing, I think, is that the patients get real LSD. In my experience, clever people dilute it with other stuff. That could be the reason for my bad trip. And it could be the reason many people say 'no way.'

I preferred a smooth trip. Sometimes, though, I would practically get lock jaw, and muscle tension was outrageous. Having experienced the smoother way (mescaline is a perfect example), I have to figure the LSD on the streets today may not be 100% pure LSD.

Edit: If I could find 100% pure LSD, or even better, pure Mescaline, I wouldn't hesitate to give it a shot, being my own therapist, just to help with my issues. My main worry is the 'street' part of 'street drugs.'

That and there are a number of other chemicals sold as 'acid' that aren't LSD.

[Crazy Hitch]

Personally I can't think of any moral grounds not to then, personally, based on the situation you have stated.

[eskielover]

My mother died of cancer & the normal pain medications were sufficient to handle the pain & still have her as coherent as possible to communicate with her up to the end....& that was more important than giving someone something that they trip out on.