[guilloche]

OMG.

I'm so sorry, I just really need to vent a bit. It's almost midnight, and the neighbor's dogs have been barking, howling, and yapping since about 11:20p. They're right on the other side of my wall, and the sound travels very easily into my condo.

I am so frustrated.

She's traveling and has left them alone again.

I know she's tried a lot of things. She was using some sort of device from Amazon that emitted a high frequency sound when they bark, and that seemed to work to stop them, but she said it was damaging/hurting the little one's ears.

So now she's not.

She's basically suggested that I just sleep with ear plugs, which I find uncomfortable, plus they block out the sound of my alarm in the morning.

Plus, you know, I shouldn't HAVE to block her dogs barking at midnight. It's crazy, right?

She also left me the number of the woman who walks them, but when I called her and asked if she could come calm them down, she said... "well, I was just there, and there were barking and howling then. I couldn't get them to calm down."

So, what the heck? The point of giving me the number was that the lady was supposed to come and get them to stop barking.

She also said she has too many dogs right now at her house for her to take them there, and she can't come tonight, but "just put in your ear plugs" and she'll come tomorrow and spend the night (and the next few nights, until the neighbor returns) sleeping there.

Am I being unreasonable to expect to not have dogs barking in the condo that shares a wall with me - at midnight? I know that I'm a little on the sensitive side with noises, but it seems like any sane person would be upset.

It doesn't help that the neighbor asked her other neighbor (unit on the other side) - and that woman DOES sleep with ear plugs, so she's totally not bothered. (Plus, the dogs are often in a half bath that shares a wall with me, not the other neighbor, and I think the sound is traveling right up along the wall to where my bedroom is).

It just feels unreal to me that the answer is, "well put in ear plugs" when there shouldn't be excessive noise at midnight. I totally get that dogs bar sometimes... but again, this is about 40 minutes of barking already tonight.

Is there any good way for me to suggest that she find someplace to board the dogs when she travels?

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I hate living here. And I used to like my house just fine, until this person moved in and ruined it.

[bpcyclist]

This is such a crazy post for me! I live in a brand-new, very nice apt. complex in a lovely part of town. I don't have a lot of money, but I was able to afford this, for which I am most grateful. It is basically silent here. Very good construction and well-insulated. Until yesterday, when the new guy next door's big doggie started barking--all, firgging day long. And again today. Nonstop. I feel bad for the dog, he is obviously stressed when his master is at work. I was just composing a note to him when I took a breath and read your post.

It is not your job to make it easy for him to allow his dog to bark nonstop, it is their job to keep the dog under control. There are community rules and regs and they are no doubt not abiding by them. I would review those regs and then write a polite but firm note stating that this cannot continue. If that doesn't work, go to the board.

[sarahsweets]

I think you need to complain to your leasing office or property management office or superintendent. How many dogs is she allowed to have in the apartment? Many places do not allow more than one or two.

[seeker33]

You might call your local/town police... whatewer they're called in the US. Here, it's suposed to be quiet after 10pm. They might give her a fine for disrupting silence at night. Also you could call animal protection services.
You're definitely not overreacting! Your complaint is perfectly reasonable.

[seesaw]

Absolutely document it: record the noise every time it happens. And call both the police and animal control. Get your neighbor's response to your complaint in writing. Also, the apartment manager needs to be dealing with this. Dogs are going to bark but barking nonstop and or late at night is unacceptable. And no, you dont have to wear ear plugs. That can be dangerous. You have a lot of recourse here. Record with video or audio if you can and make notes every time it happens and what every response is. You will need this to threaten your landlord for not dealing with the issue. If they fail to provide a quiet home for you, you can threaten to vacate the lease.

[winter4me]

It sounds like she has Some concern (not enough) as she has acknowledged the noise/I would ask her to please use a kennel or service (?Rover.com)----if she doesn't, make a formal complaint to the appropriate people. (I wonder if there are others bothered by the dogs? )

[guilloche]

Thanks everyone... very much appreciated, since it's hard to tell if I'm being crazy/over-sensitive.

It's a townhouse, so I actually own my home - which kind of makes it feel worse (harder to move!). I feel like she's basically ruined my home (the previous neighbor was lovely and incredibly quiet, my neighbor on the other side is quiet.)

She has a woman who comes and walks them during the day, and she gave me her number, with the idea that if they bark at night... this woman can come "calm them down". But the woman is a little difficult to deal with (she's in her 80s). I'm still in shock that her response "oh yeah, I was just there for an hour and they wouldn't stop barking." So, she's obviously not helping!

I will look into getting some equipment to record them. That's a good idea (thanks) - though I'm worried that from my bedroom, someone else might think they're not loud enough.

And, I think I'm going to ask her to look into finding a dog trainer. Maybe I'll suggest either a trainer (I'm assuming the dogs are super anxious), or that she look into anti-anxiety medicine with her vet? (I've heard of other people having success with their own dogs with "puppy prozac" - but I don't know how she'd feel about that.) I'd LOVE it if she'd board her dogs, or even just find a dog sitter who would either stay with them or take them home at night. I don't know if that will happen though.

But it seems crazy to me to leave for a week, and just leave two dogs alone in your home (with someone stopping by to walk them now and then). How are the dogs NOT supposed to be freaked out, their human is gone, and they have no idea if/when she's returning.

The sad thing is, I used to really love dogs (and wanted one). Dealing with this (over the last 2 years or so) has kind of ruined that for me.

[guilloche]

bpcyclist - I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this too. It's crazy, isn't it? Your apartment sounds so lovely (other than the barking dog!). Part of what upsets me is that, in these cases, the owner isn't inconvenienced at all. It feels crazy to me. I think there should be some sort of device that... when your dog barks... projects the sound through your phone, so that you're as disturbed as your neighbors. Maybe I should try to work on that as a project (but I don't know if any owners would actually use it.) Good luck with your neighbor, I hope that they're able to figure something out quickly!

SarahSweets - Thanks. She has two, but they're little chihuahuas - so very skittish and they bark/howl. I think they rile each other up? I'll start trying to document them, but I'm worried it won't look like enough of a problem - it's not a problem (usually) when she's at home, because she's able to quiet them down. But when she travels and leaves them alone... ugh!

Seeker33 - Thanks for the suggestions and the validation! Much appreciated it. The police make me a little nervous... but I'll keep this in mind. Really, at this point, I kind of wish I could just sell the house, but not sure where I'd go. I'm working towards that, I think, but it's not a fast process for me!

Seesaw - Thank you! I'll start looking to see what I can use for recording them, but I appreciate the validation about the ear plugs. I was kind of wondering that - it seems like it could cause problems to have your ears essentially blocked all night. Unfortunately, it's not an apartment - it's a townhouse, so we share a wall like in an apartment (and it's old, so no real sound proofing, apparently) - but no landlord to complain to and moving is a bit more difficult.

Winter4me - Thank you! Yeah, she's tried. That's part of why I don't want to explode at her, she's actually made efforts... she used an anti-bark device at night for a bit (but said it was causing damage to the smaller dog?), she's tried putting on the tv apparently, and she was recently trying CBD oil. She's always apologetic about it. But, at the end of the day, it doesn't help the fact that the dogs are barking at midnight when I need to be sleeping.

I really try to be a good neighbor and to be accommodating. I don't complain when they bark during the day, because... it's the day. Noise happens. It's easier for me to create "white noise" or move to another room. Not a big deal.

But at night, it's so much harder. I tried putting on an air purifier to block the noise, and that worked... except... it blows the air around, and made the room too cold (I was shivering and couldn't sleep!) I tried white noise rain sounds on my phone, which seemed to block them, but weirdly kept me awake too (I might need to try a different one, the rain sounded a bit artificially fast, which kept my attention, I think.)

It's just that, at the end of the day, you shouldn't be making enough noise (at MIDNIGHT!) for your neighbors to hear. It's one thing if it's an accident... you drop something, or an alarm goes off. But it just sucks when it's your dogs, because you decided to leave them home alone while traveling, and there's no one there to calm them down.

I'm tired and stressed and headachey this morning. She's not coming back until Christmas Eve, I think, she I'll get myself calmed down and plan to talk to her once she's back. But I know she's going to say, "oh why didn't you just wear ear plugs?" *Argh*.

Thank you all so much, I really appreciate the support and validation!

[seesaw]

The police or animal control will issue a citation if you can prove it's a nuisance. Then it will keep escalating fromt here. So keep recording it.

[*Beth*]

I have been in the same miserable situation a number of times. And I have to say that I believe a-holes who neglect their dogs should be fined and even jailed for animal neglect - just as would be done with child neglect.

I feel so bad for you, guilloche. Where I live animal control will come out and leave a warning on the dog owner's door. After that, if the dog(s) still bark the owner will be fined. In other words, complaints about barking dogs are taken quite seriously.

Please do call your animal control and ask what the policy about barking dogs is.

[bpcyclist]

Originally Posted by guilloche

bpcyclist - I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this too. It's crazy, isn't it? Your apartment sounds so lovely (other than the barking dog!). Part of what upsets me is that, in these cases, the owner isn't inconvenienced at all. It feels crazy to me. I think there should be some sort of device that... when your dog barks... projects the sound through your phone, so that you're as disturbed as your neighbors. Maybe I should try to work on that as a project (but I don't know if any owners would actually use it.) Good luck with your neighbor, I hope that they're able to figure something out quickly!

SarahSweets - Thanks. She has two, but they're little chihuahuas - so very skittish and they bark/howl. I think they rile each other up? I'll start trying to document them, but I'm worried it won't look like enough of a problem - it's not a problem (usually) when she's at home, because she's able to quiet them down. But when she travels and leaves them alone... ugh!

Seeker33 - Thanks for the suggestions and the validation! Much appreciated it. The police make me a little nervous... but I'll keep this in mind. Really, at this point, I kind of wish I could just sell the house, but not sure where I'd go. I'm working towards that, I think, but it's not a fast process for me!

Seesaw - Thank you! I'll start looking to see what I can use for recording them, but I appreciate the validation about the ear plugs. I was kind of wondering that - it seems like it could cause problems to have your ears essentially blocked all night. Unfortunately, it's not an apartment - it's a townhouse, so we share a wall like in an apartment (and it's old, so no real sound proofing, apparently) - but no landlord to complain to and moving is a bit more difficult.

Winter4me - Thank you! Yeah, she's tried. That's part of why I don't want to explode at her, she's actually made efforts... she used an anti-bark device at night for a bit (but said it was causing damage to the smaller dog?), she's tried putting on the tv apparently, and she was recently trying CBD oil. She's always apologetic about it. But, at the end of the day, it doesn't help the fact that the dogs are barking at midnight when I need to be sleeping.

I really try to be a good neighbor and to be accommodating. I don't complain when they bark during the day, because... it's the day. Noise happens. It's easier for me to create "white noise" or move to another room. Not a big deal.

But at night, it's so much harder. I tried putting on an air purifier to block the noise, and that worked... except... it blows the air around, and made the room too cold (I was shivering and couldn't sleep!) I tried white noise rain sounds on my phone, which seemed to block them, but weirdly kept me awake too (I might need to try a different one, the rain sounded a bit artificially fast, which kept my attention, I think.)

It's just that, at the end of the day, you shouldn't be making enough noise (at MIDNIGHT!) for your neighbors to hear. It's one thing if it's an accident... you drop something, or an alarm goes off. But it just sucks when it's your dogs, because you decided to leave them home alone while traveling, and there's no one there to calm them down.

I'm tired and stressed and headachey this morning. She's not coming back until Christmas Eve, I think, she I'll get myself calmed down and plan to talk to her once she's back. But I know she's going to say, "oh why didn't you just wear ear plugs?" *Argh*.

Thank you all so much, I really appreciate the support and validation!

Get to work inventing that dog barking app--I promise, I will be your first customer.

[guilloche]

Thanks Seesaw - that makes sense!

BethRags - thanks! The crazy thing is, I don't think she thinks she's neglectful at all... I mean, I know she loves her dogs and she has someone come to walk them. But, it seems kind of cruel to just leave them for days on end, even with a dog walker stopping by (and sometimes staying). I don't have dogs though, so I don't know how most people feel about that. I'll look for the number for our local animal control.

bpcyclist - Thanks.

[bpcyclist]

Well, guess who I saw on the vator tonight? Riddick, the cute-as-can-be doggie that barks nonstop. He is fuzzy and adorable. He had a sort of muzzle on. Did not seem very encouraging or kind on the owner's part, but the dog hasn't been barking, so...

[morganc]

It sounds crazy. OMG. how you solve this problem.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by bpcyclist

Well, guess who I saw on the vator tonight? Riddick, the cute-as-can-be doggie that barks nonstop. He is fuzzy and adorable. He had a sort of muzzle on. Did not seem very encouraging or kind on the owner's part, but the dog hasn't been barking, so...

Was it an actual muzzle or just a head harness? I often use a training tool that looks like a bridle on my dogs, it's called a head halter or gentle leader. People often mistake it for a muzzle even though its quite obvious the dog could easily open its mouth and bite someone. I never understand how they think it's a muzzle when it doesnt cover their mouth at all. Lol.

Barkers arent always biters. Although if he is a biter I hope it was a muzzle. That would show some responsibility from his owner to be walking a known biter with a muzzle on.

[bpcyclist]

Originally Posted by seesaw

Was it an actual muzzle or just a head harness? I often use a training tool that looks like a bridle on my dogs, it's called a head halter or gentle leader. People often mistake it for a muzzle even though its quite obvious the dog could easily open its mouth and bite someone. I never understand how they think it's a muzzle when it doesnt cover their mouth at all. Lol.

Barkers arent always biters. Although if he is a biter I hope it was a muzzle. That would show some responsibility from his owner to be walking a known biter with a muzzle on.

Ah, yeah--it was a halter thingy. Sorry, not a dog expert, really.

[guilloche]

bpcyclist - Ha! Of course he's a total cutie-pie, right? He probably skates by on his adoreable-ness - but glad to hear that he's not barking as much lately! Hopefully the owner has figured out some way to help him be a bit calmer.

morganc - It IS SO CRAZY! OK - it's not always crazy. When the owner is home, the dogs are 99% fine. I hear an occasional bark or yip, but that's normal, not a problem. But, when she is away... it's awful. It was actually better for a bit, when she was using the anti-bark device, but she just stopped recently because it was apparently damaging the hearing of one of the dogs.

If she's home, it's fine... so it's not like the problem is happening every day (I would probably go completely beserk!). But she was traveling for the holidays. Yesterday, they barked all day. Like, literally, all day. Usually, I don't worry about them barking during the day (it's day time, I can usually easily drown it out or move to another room) - but this was just nuts. Then they were barking in to the night again.

I tried earplugs and a very loud fan outside my bedroom door (too loud to have in the bedroom).

I also tried measuring the noise level with my phone. It was only about 42dB at its loudest, and it looks like (???) our city requires it to be 55dB or louder at night to be a nuisance? I don't know if I'm understanding that correctly.

Luckily, she eventually came home last night, so by 12:30 I was able to turn everything off, take out the ear plugs, and sleep. I also had to take some supplements b/c even though I was exhausted, my stress was through the roof and I just couldn't calm down.

I don't know what I'm going to do at this point. I did some research on local dog trainers yesterday, and I think I want to give that to her. I'm trying to figure out the best way to present it so that she'll be receptive. I think it could actually be really great for her and the dogs too - even though she's not there when they're barking, she MUST know that they have some issues (for example, when she's walking them, they'll go nuts if I walk up to talk to her - even though she's introduced us and tells them that I'm OK!)

I'm actually thinking of offering to offset some of the costs, b/c even though I shouldn't have to, it seems like the most effective way to solve the problem. I'd rather pay than continue to be extremely stressed and not able to sleep.

My other thought is, I may contact someone to see if they can add some sort of soundproofing to the wall between us. I didn't want to deal with this (b/c I'd like to move soon), but I should probably ask around and see if there's anything that's not too expensive that would help muffle it a bit more.

seesaw - Thanks for the clarification, and for being a responsible dog owner!

Anyway, I believe she's finally back in town. So hopefully things will better for a bit. But she travels a lot.

Really, I just want to move at this point. Far, far away!

[LilyMop]

Wow that’s completely unfair to both you and the dogs. Have you thought about telling her you noticed her dogs are very stressed out when she’s gone? She knows they’re keeping you awake
But obviously that doesn’t bother her. I find it unbelievable she doesn’t do something about this. When my dogs bark I bring them inside immediately and we never leave them outside while we aren’t home. She’s neglecting her dogs and she’s an incredibly rude neighbor. How would she feel if you were making a bunch of noise at night and she couldn’t sleep? Unbelievable. I feel really bad for you and I feel really bad for the dogs.

[guilloche]

Hi LilyMop - Thank you.

It's a really rough situation. I've talked to her about it several times, and she's made some attempts. The dogs are inside, but since we share a wall, I hear them very clearly. She had the dog-walker putting them in the tiny half-bathroom at night, which shares a wall with my condo - the wall goes ALL the way up along my stairs and also against my bedroom, so I think it's acting like one huge sound board.

They don't seem to like being stuck in the tiny half bath all night (of course, right?!)

But, she's tried an anti-bark device, which worked great - but apparently was hurting the hearing of one of the dogs, so she's stopped using it. Then she tried CBD oil... I don't know what happened with that or if she's still using it, but it doesn't seem to have done anything.

I do think it's irresponsible and really rude.

She's also pointed out that the neighbor on the other side isn't bothered at all, and wears ear plugs at night (which I don't want to do in my own house!). But it makes sense, the bathroom that the dogs are in isn't sharing a wall with that neighbor, it's the opposite side of the house.

She's back in town, so it's been much quieter. It's fine when she's home, it's just when she travels and leaves them.

I think I need to chat with her in-person, rather than email. I'm not sure of the best time to catch her (ha, maybe if I can see her leaving to walk with the dogs).

I want to play the recording that I made with my phone, but I'm worried it might not *sound* as loud as it was (I think the phone treated the dogs as "background noise"). Then, offer to send her the info that I found on trainers.

The stupidest thing is... if she'd get a good trainer, I think it would benefit her dogs so much (not just me). I'm sure they must be crazy-stressed to be barking that much, and training should help them feel more secure and less anxious. And, it should help her too - as they should behave a little better! But, I think she's going to think it's too expensive.

I don't know. Ugh ugh ugh. So many things going on, and I'm still really worn out from dealing with this over the last couple days. I just crashed for most of the afternoon in bed today and vegged out with podcasts!!!

*Thanks!*

[possum220]

How does she know that the anti barking device is hurting her dog? If it is a shock collar it may be giving the dog a zap but it does stop unwanted behaviour. Eventually the dog doesn't need to be zapped the fear of it happening is enough of a deterrent. Is there some kind of body corporate that you can go to? I doubt that you are the only person that is being affected by the barking.

If she continues to go away then maybe the dogs can go to a kennel where they are looked after better? Her dogs, her responsibility. I do feel for you. I hope you can work out a more permanent fix.

[Row Jimmy]

Go to the condo association. The by laws will have regulations about dogs and noise. They can fine her, boot out the dogs, or boot her and her dogs out.

[guilloche]

Possum220 - Thanks! The device she was using emitted really high frequency noise when it detected the dogs barking. It is supposed to irritate them, and it stops when they stop barking (so they learn that when they bark, the noise happens, and when they stop it goes away). She only used it at night when she was gone, but it worked well. They'd bark for a minute or two (she had it set with a delay) and then they'd stop. I assume the vet must have noticed some sort of hearing damage to the one dog? I didn't ask how she knew, since it was working, I assume that if she didn't think it was causing damage she would have kept using it.

Row Jimmy - Thanks... I'll keep that in mind, but the woman who dog sits for he is (or was, I'm not sure?) the president of the condo board! I think that since she's been trying (i.e. with the bark device, and by giving me the dog sitters phone number), I'm not sure what else they can do.

She did email me (I had emailed her over Christmas letting her know that I was grateful to the dog sitter, because the dogs were being quite loud, and the sitter ended up spending several nights at the house - which was honestly so incredibly helpful!)

She was apologetic and is still trying to figure it out. She was surprised, because she thought the "treats" (I assume these are the CBD she talked about) were supposed to help with their anxiety, so I let her know that they didn't do anything, and that when the sitter wasn't there, they barked for over an hour until she got there.

I also gently asked if she'd consider a dog trainer, and that I had found a couple online that were recommended, if she were interested. No response yet.

I'm trying to keep things friendly, since we have to live next to each other, and so far, she has been friendly too. Like I said, it's not like she hasn't tried... the anti-bark device worked for a bit, and I'm glad that I have the sitter's number. I wish the sitter could just take the dogs back to her place over night though!

Thanks everyone. I think my greatest hope right now is that she can find a good dog trainer who can help them to be less anxious, which would be good for her, them, and me!

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by guilloche

Possum220 - Thanks! The device she was using emitted really high frequency noise when it detected the dogs barking. It is supposed to irritate them, and it stops when they stop barking (so they learn that when they bark, the noise happens, and when they stop it goes away). She only used it at night when she was gone, but it worked well. They'd bark for a minute or two (she had it set with a delay) and then they'd stop. I assume the vet must have noticed some sort of hearing damage to the one dog? I didn't ask how she knew, since it was working, I assume that if she didn't think it was causing damage she would have kept using it.


Row Jimmy - Thanks... I'll keep that in mind, but the woman who dog sits for he is (or was, I'm not sure?) the president of the condo board! I think that since she's been trying (i.e. with the bark device, and by giving me the dog sitters phone number), I'm not sure what else they can do.


She did email me (I had emailed her over Christmas letting her know that I was grateful to the dog sitter, because the dogs were being quite loud, and the sitter ended up spending several nights at the house - which was honestly so incredibly helpful!)


She was apologetic and is still trying to figure it out. She was surprised, because she thought the "treats" (I assume these are the CBD she talked about) were supposed to help with their anxiety, so I let her know that they didn't do anything, and that when the sitter wasn't there, they barked for over an hour until she got there.


I also gently asked if she'd consider a dog trainer, and that I had found a couple online that were recommended, if she were interested. No response yet.


I'm trying to keep things friendly, since we have to live next to each other, and so far, she has been friendly too. Like I said, it's not like she hasn't tried... the anti-bark device worked for a bit, and I'm glad that I have the sitter's number. I wish the sitter could just take the dogs back to her place over night though!


Thanks everyone. I think my greatest hope right now is that she can find a good dog trainer who can help them to be less anxious, which would be good for her, them, and me!

Fyi, I use to have the same anti bark device that emits a high frequency sound that stops then from barking. It doesn't hurt them. It just sort of startles them. Like a dog whistle.

[guilloche]

Thanks SeeSaw. I'm not sure what happened, maybe the vet noticed something that made her think it was hurting her dog? I'm trying to not be too intrusive, since they're her dogs... not mine...

Everyone!
Guess what! I've been emailing back and forth with her since she got back, and we have a little bit of a resolution.

She talked to the dog sitter, and they agreed that when she travels, the dogs will spend the night at the sitters home. They'll still be here during the day, but I can cope with that. It's much easier for me to deal with extra noise during the day than at night, when I need to sleep.

So, I'm grateful for that.

And, she told me a couple more things:

1. The reason they were barking, according to the dog sitter, was that she has a baby-gate that keeps them inside the half-bath at night. But, in both cases, the gate had fallen in to the bathroom, so one dog was trapped inside, and the other was outside.

2. She has tried a trainer, who apparently told her that it's anxiety (and recommended the CBD treats), and that more training won't help. This surprises me a little, because they go nuts when she has them outside and I walk up to talk to her. I would think that a good trainer could help with that, but that's really not my business.

3. She going to continue trying different CBD treats apparently to try to help calm them down. I don't really care about this, since they'll be spending nights with the dog sitter when she's out of town. (And they're fine when she's there.)

So, hopefully we won't have any more repeats. It sucks that it was over Christmas, and really drove my stress levels way up higher than they needed to be. But, I'm glad there's some sort of resolution. Having them spend the night with the dog sitter when she's not there will pretty much solve this problem, so I'm thrilled with this.

It also means I won't have to make any more 12:30 am calls to the dog sitter! That wasn't fun for me!

Thank you all for all your ideas, information, and support! Thanks!

[seesaw]

Well, the thing about training not working is an absolute lie, I can tell you. I've worked with dogs for a long time, and you can absolutely do behavioral retraining to deal wihtbseparation anxiety. Either that trainer isnt very good or they just dont want to do the work.