For Christmas I bought my niece (who is college-age) two travel books for the country she is studying abroad in this spring semester. I was excited for her and she and my sister thanked me for the two travel books.

Here's where things went awry.

The heat in my place went out so I spent the night in my niece's bedroom at my sister's. Guess what two books I noticed on my nice's bookshelf?

Yep! The two travel books I'd bought her for Christmas!

I complained to my sister that my feelings were very hurt. My sister HELPED her daughter (my niece) pack. Now, my sister had the choice: respect my feelings and tell me in advance:

Scenario 1: "I'm really sorry that (niece) can't take your travel books with her. She'd like you to mail them to her study abroad center so she can use them when she gets settled in."

Outcome: shows that my sister and my niece respect my feelings. Shows me that my niece likes the travel books and plans to use them.

Scenario 2: "I'm really sorry Aunt Motts. I want to take these travel books with me, but I can't fit them in my suitcases. Can you send them to me? I can't wait to use them!"

Outcome: My feelings are respected by my niece.

But that's not the outcome. Now my sister didn't show any empathy for my feelings at all, when I expressed my hurt and disappointment. I told my sister that I was disappointed that neither she nor her daughter could respect my feelings enough to even give me the books to mail ahead to be used. Did my sister really believe that I wouldn't notice and THEN feel hurt when I noticed the two travel books I'd bought her daughter, collecting dust on the daughter's shelf in her bedroom?

My sister totally gaslighted my feelings, telling me she didn't pack her daughter's suitcases (lie #1) and that she didn't notice the books (lie #2). Her son spends every day in his sister's room for his Zoom high school classes too. Even HE told me they were in there.

My niece is also very rude. I emailed her study abroad center ahead of time and had a bouquet of flowers delivered to her on her birthday, delivered by a local flower shop.

Did my niece even send me a thank you email or text? Nope. Nothing. Even after I asked my sister if she heard anything. My sister played dumb at first. Then, she must have texted my niece and told her b/c after I had texted my sister, my niece conveniently texted me a quick "thanks for the flowers. I'll send you a photo." She never sent me a photo of the bouquet either. That's just insensitive and rude. I also gave my niece birthday money via an online app that allows her to use from her phone in the country she's studying abroad in.

My sister doesn't allow me to express any negative emotions around her. I think that is super toxic behavior on her part. Like, if you tell her she did something that hurt your feelings, she makes it clear that you are wrong and not allowed to hold her accountable by responding with sarcasm and minimizing feelings. This has been our toxic dynamic for decades unfortunately.

And yes, I suggested therapy to her and she refuses. Yes, I should just walk away from my sister and her children and estrange myself. They consistently show me how little they care about me and I just go back for more abuse. I really don't know why. I keep hoping they will just like me and stop treating me like crap.

When I went abroad in my 20s, I was given a poetry book by my dad's friend and a travel book by a professor. How ironic that I was able to pack those two books in my suitcases and take them with me.

I think that's why I feel insulted and hurt. My niece clearly doesn't like me and I need to just accept that. Her actions show me that she doesn't care about my feelings; esp. if she only responds in kind when my sister tells her to via text.

My sister is going to visit my niece in a couple of weeks. I am not going to contact my niece anymore while she's studying abroad or send her any care packages. Why bother.

And of course, maybe she read through the travel books I bought her and decided she didn't like them. She's allowed not to like them. But my sister could have handled the situation better. I guess I shouldn't expect anything different. Maybe that's where I went wrong this time (again).

Can anyone relate to what it's like to have a toxic relationship with your sibling? Has anyone been in this situation themselves?

My sister called me tonight after I responded to her passive-aggressive email that she sent to me today. Nothing was resolved. I did tell her the same thing I wrote to her in my email response about how her behavior makes me feel. She literally followed the script written by gaslighters; she's the victim (you nitpick me, Motts), she can't change the past (no accountability for her behavior in the past), she doesn't want to discuss the past (so she can avoid being held accountable for her behavior), and she wants to try to start over (future faking promises). I feel emotionally drained and physically exhausted from that conversation.

[RoxanneToto]

I have (had) a few family members like this - older ones who should have known better, sadly. I can relate to a lot of this, though don’t really have any good suggestions other than lower your expectations of your sister and niece. They’re not going to change now, though it is hard when you can’t have the reciprocal, empathetic relationships you’d like with them.

[downandlonely]

Lowering your expectations when it comes to family members can be difficult. I have actually found it easier to just cut off almost all contact with my brother who bullied me growing up. Talking to him makes me feel worse, so I just avoid doing it.

With my mom, it is a bit more challenging, because of how her mood changes due to the bipolar. At times she can be incredibly mean. Then the next minute she is apologizing for the past. But it can be exhausting to keep up with. I just limit contact with my family of origin as much as possible at this point. It does help that I don't live in the same state.

Originally Posted by RoxanneToto

I have (had) a few family members like this - older ones who should have known better, sadly. I can relate to a lot of this, though don’t really have any good suggestions other than lower your expectations of your sister and niece. They’re not going to change now, though it is hard when you can’t have the reciprocal, empathetic relationships you’d like with them.

Thank you for responding to my thread, Roxanne. I feel better knowing that I'm not the only adult sibling in this situation.

I definitely have lowered my expectations of both my sister and her daughter. When I think of the way my sister treated me in the past without ANY recourse from me (and believe me, I tried to hold my sister accountable to no avail), I'm absolutely livid.

You're correct. My sister and her 21 year old daughter aren't going to change now...or ever.

When I told my sister, one of my biggest regrets in life was not having a sister who I had a close emotional bond with, my sister's response was to future fake me. She said, "Well we can start tomorrow, yada, yada, yada" yet she never follows that up with initiating any social bonding time with me. So, that's why I say 'future fake' because it's all a big act on her part. To keep me hooked, I guess?

If my sister really had wanted a close bond with me she literally had her entire life to co-create that with me. But she made no effort at all and rejected every olive branch I gave to her.

She rejects my olive branches now, which look like funny text messages from me where I attach silly TikToks or silly Memes. She never reciprocates with her own, or initiates any text communication with me unless it is to do with our mother's memory care updates. I must be very insecure if I think that will change her mind and she'll have an epiphany.

I don't even know how she became this way, either? We weren't physically abused. Sure, our parents were emotionally abusive and neglectful but we had a roof over our head, we had food and clothing, and we were not poor (or wealthy) but were middle class. So, how did my sister become such a narcissist? I swung the pendulum and became codependent. I guess those are the two opposite sides of how she and I dealt with our parents internally.

Did you estrange yourself from those family members, Roxanne? Or do you grey rock them and keep in contact?

Two past incidents stand out for me, about how my sister and her 21 year old daughter each have hurt me.

1. When I introduced a serious boyfriend to my sister at her house for Thanksgiving, she took him aside and disclosed her toxic opinion about me and told him that I was crazy and that he should run away and break up with me. He told me what she said as we drove back to my place. Then, he actually broke up with me citing her influence as a factor. Who does that? Who disparages their sibling's love interest behind that sibling's back? When I confronted my sister, she gaslighted me and claimed innocence. She claimed she didn't know what I was talking about.

2. My niece had a high school choir concert outdoors at a band stand. I literally sat at the table next to my niece who was with her friends and my niece ignored me the ENTIRE time. She never waved to acknowledge she'd seen me. Her friends would look over at me, laugh and look back at her. That really hurt my feelings.

Plus, my niece never reaches to me and she never responds to any of my text messages. I sent her flowers abroad for her birthday and she didn't respond until my sister texted her, probably telling her to respond. She texted me that she'd send me a photo of the bouquet of flowers I bought her, but she never bothered to do that. That's really rude behavior on her part. I lived abroad but if a relative or friend called me or emailed me, I didn't leave them hanging in silence like my niece does. She's so rude. When I was chatting with her on video, she kept making the video go black and would mute her sound. I knew she was probably doing that b/c her friends were contacting her. Again, very rude behavior on her part.

Originally Posted by downandlonely

Lowering your expectations when it comes to family members can be difficult. I have actually found it easier to just cut off almost all contact with my brother who bullied me growing up. Talking to him makes me feel worse, so I just avoid doing it.

With my mom, it is a bit more challenging, because of how her mood changes due to the bipolar. At times she can be incredibly mean. Then the next minute she is apologizing for the past. But it can be exhausting to keep up with. I just limit contact with my family of origin as much as possible at this point. It does help that I don't live in the same state.

Hi DAL, I can definitely lower my expectations. Thanks for reading and responding to my thread. I literally need this place for support, when life stuff like this affects me so negatively. I appreciate your input.

I definitely want to cut my sister and her family off now. The only two members of her family that are innocent in this are her two sons who are in high school who are definitely very genuine and kind souls. I will miss them for sure, when I finally find the strength to walk away. I have a feeling it will definitely happen when our mother passes away at some point.

My sister and I had a huge blowout argument about who is going to control what with our mother's estate and will and funeral arrangements. Even though my sister claims I get to be the one who plans the funeral, I don't believe her for a second. I expect to be ambushed, undermined, and sabotaged by my sister when that day of our mother's funeral takes place. The other shoe that drops, so to speak.

After that, we will definitely become complete strangers and never speak again. I already know that is going to happen, b/c I can sense it is the natural progression of our toxic sisterhood with each other.

I am sorry that you experienced narcissism with your brother who bullied you and with your own mother too. That took great inner strength on your part to walk away from your brother and that you limit contact with your family of origin by moving to a different state.

Do people judge you when you tell them you're not close with your family? I guess I need to get over that imagined judgement. If people genuinely like me, they wouldn't care that I was not in contact with my sister anymore for my own mental health and well-being. Since keeping her in my life has proven to be disastrous for my socially. I mean, she disparages me to everyone I introduce her to. It has to be better if I just meet people and tell them that I am not close to my family and not elaborate why (because it's no one's business, correct?).

I would love to do that too - move away to another state and just be geographically distanced b/c that would make it easier to stop contacting my sister and her children. Clearly, my sister does not want me in her life so I guess the issue is that I am the one who is struggling to let go of what I imagined vs. what the harsh reality is where our relationship is concerned.

I am supposed to dogsit for my sister while she takes her family to Florida for spring break the end of March. I think I need to find the strength to tell my sister "no, find someone else to dogsit." That is a boundary, isn't it?

This is just stressful.I am mad that I have wasted so much time and energy on trying to repair my relationship with my sister when she has not made any effort herself. She could care less!

[sarahsweets]

Hey @Motts: I cant quite relate specifically to ongoing sibling issues but I had some thoughts.
Re: the books, were they books with maps and suggestions of places to go or eat? Were they the kind of travel books that pack hints in them about how to avoid being taken as a tourist and all the hidden gems to see like a local? Not that it matters mind you but I was wondering if it was possible that she read them ahead of time (although based on what you say thats probably BS) but I was just thinking. All of the history aside between you and your sister- from when you were little until now- have you ever directly said something like " We dont get along and I want to know why. I want you to just tell me the truth. Please join me for a therapy session to see if any of this can be fixed" Or if the therapy thing isnt your style you can be more harsh..." I feel like I am unloved and unliked by you and your family. I dont need any excuses about how its just me and my issues. I want you to honestly tell me all of it- every stinkin thing that puts you in the head space you seem to be in around me". Then say you will listen without interrupting and when she is done you will respond. Or a step further- come up with an expectation that works for you as what you expect but is also a boundary. Tell her the consequences of crossing or violating that boundary and stick with it.
Hey @Motts I hope you understand that when I put myself in quotes its not because I think you need to say what I say, its just easier to make my point.

First off I do not think any gifts for any reason should be exchanged anymore. No Bday, holidays, nothing. There is more to life than material goods and you will know more about their interest in your life once the check book is closed. Does any of that make sense?

I make no bones about my own boundaries now. I now have the holidays with just my mom, brother and my own family. We couldnt take the racist hate from that side so we made the choice and now I love the holidays. I also regularly purge my Facebook. I only have good friends and family (I do not have issues with social media but some do) as friends and politics helped me ditch about 1/4 and then I go through them and delete them if I havent spoken to them or wouldnt go have lunch with them. Anyhow sorry to hijack.

[RoxanneToto]

@Motts - the fact your sister made someone want to break up with you is truly nasty, and very unfair of her, though I suspect she knew and as you said before, didn’t want to take responsibility. She blameshifted to you as she didn’t see what she was doing as wrong, as people with narcissistic tendencies think everything they do is right, sometimes even including illegal things.
I’m currently grey rock with these relatives - well, cordial and polite rather than true grey rock boring. Most of them I literally only see because I still live with my mum (long ish story), but if/when I get my own place, I likely won’t see them much, if at all.

[Mendingmysoul]

Actions speak louder than words.Your relationship with your sister and her daughter seems to be very toxic.Their actions are too disrespectful. So many red flags here.You seem to be holding onto a hope that they might change one day.IMO they will continue to keep you in their life as long as you let them cross your boundaries and let them walk all over you or you keep being useful to them in some way.Non reciprocal, one way relationships based on selfish motives,do not have heart to heart deep connections.I think your heart is telling you the truth about your sister.These relations inevitably fall through.It is just a matter of time. See what happens once you put a simple boundary(saying no to dogsitting).I did the same with my sibling.They are so used to crossing my boundaries all the time that my first attempt to put a boundary did not go well.They became passive aggressive. It is not easy to recede from these toxic relationships. I realised it is necessary to do so, to keep my sanity.I feel like a fool now,the red flags were always there,the disrespect was always there,I always took the high road hoping for the change which never happened. It looks like to me you have taken enough toxicity from them.Hugs.

[downandlonely]

That question about judgment is interesting Motts. At times I have felt judged for not being close to my family of origin.

When I first moved to another state, I wanted to work with children, so I signed up to be a Big Sister with Big Brothers, Big Sisters. They asked for references and did a criminal background check and an interview (all of which I support. I understand that they do not want people who may harm the children). But the interview completely blindsided me because it was all about my relationship with my family of origin. They specifically asked me about my relationship with each parent and sibling. They seemed disappointed when I said I didn't talk to any of them much.

In the end, I somehow failed the interview, because they told me that I was not selected as a volunteer. They also said that it was their policy never to to tell people why they were not selected, so I was left to wonder. I know for a fact my criminal background check was fine. So I really think it came down to the interview and that they felt someone who is not close to family of origin should not be around children. That was one of the most hurtful experiences of my life, especially because at that point I was considering adopting children (I don't want to pass on my genes, so do not want biological children). But hearing that they don't trust me to spend one hour a week with a child pretty much dashed my hopes that I would ever be selected as an adoptive parent.

I suppose this is hardly reassuring, but I do think there needs to be a shift in the mindset that people should be close to those they are biologically related to.

[Mendingmysoul]

That was awful dear down and lonely.

[downandlonely]

Yeah, the part that really got me was if I go out and have unprotected sex with a stranger, I get a child for 18 years, no questions asked. But they have these crazy standards for letting me spend one hour a week with someone else's child.

Originally Posted by [B

sarahsweets;[/B]7176097]Hey @Motts: I cant quite relate specifically to ongoing sibling issues but I had some thoughts.

Re: the books, were they books with maps and suggestions of places to go or eat? Were they the kind of travel books that pack hints in them about how to avoid being taken as a tourist and all the hidden gems to see like a local?

Not that it matters mind you but I was wondering if it was possible that she read them ahead of time (although based on what you say thats probably BS) but I was just thinking.

All of the history aside between you and your sister- from when you were little until now- have you ever directly said something like " We dont get along and I want to know why. I want you to just tell me the truth. Please join me for a therapy session to see if any of this can be fixed" Or if the therapy thing isnt your style you can be more harsh..."

I feel like I am unloved and unliked by you and your family. I dont need any excuses about how its just me and my issues. I want you to honestly tell me all of it- every stinkin thing that puts you in the head space you seem to be in around me". Then say you will listen without interrupting and when she is done you will respond.

Or a step further- come up with an expectation that works for you as what you expect but is also a boundary. Tell her the consequences of crossing or violating that boundary and stick with it.

Hey @Motts I hope you understand that when I put myself in quotes its not because I think you need to say what I say, its just easier to make my point.

First off I do not think any gifts for any reason should be exchanged anymore. No Bday, holidays, nothing. There is more to life than material goods and you will know more about their interest in your life once the check book is closed. Does any of that make sense?

I make no bones about my own boundaries now. I now have the holidays with just my mom, brother and my own family. We couldnt take the racist hate from that side so we made the choice and now I love the holidays.

I also regularly purge my Facebook. I only have good friends and family (I do not have issues with social media but some do) as friends and politics helped me ditch about 1/4 and then I go through them and delete them if I havent spoken to them or wouldnt go have lunch with them. Anyhow sorry to hijack.

RE: the two travel books significance. I chose these two because they are written by authors/travel bloggers who live in the city/country where my niece is currently studying abroad. She wants to do what these two writers do and so I reached out to the writers and explained my niece's situation. The two writers said they would be happy to meet with my niece in person while she's in their city - to help my niece establish professional networks there and with these two writers possibly get writing gigs, etc. as a step in her career ladder before her college graduation next year.

I TOLD my niece this when she unwrapped the two books and she said she was excited and thanked me. The books are a combination of Lonely Planet meets Chic as far as writing style (factual with some bloggy lingo + maps + photos). So, that is why I was shocked my niece didn't even have the decency to tell me she wasn't taking the books with her. She essentially burned the bridge I created for her with these two writers. I suppose she probably reached out to them on social media and connected with them that way too.

Their books are also available in e-digit form. But the sentiment was there: the two books were meant to be treated as a treasured gift from me, her aunt. Guess that's me projecting? Maybe? My feelings are hurt bc of the expectations I attached to giving her those two books. So, I take ownership of that.

Gift giving should not be conditional and my niece is allowed not to take the books with her. I guess my feelings are hurt bc I foolishly thought this would "fix" things between my sister and I and her daughter?

Yeah, I was wrong.

Oh, I tried the direct approach too this week when I spoke to my sister. In true narcissist form, my sister would NOT accommodate my request with a direct answer about why I'm at the top of her "people to manipulate" list. Her flying monkeys are her husband and children and our close relatives (she texts our aunts and uncle all the time, god knows what lies she's told them about me).

25 years ago we did family therapy and she and our brother blame shifted their manipulative behavior as the cause of me, which is such a joke. I'm as passive as they come...and a recovering codependent. I'm a master accommodator. I can placate the nastiest person with a firm "yes!" when I definitely mean "no!" And my siblings know this truth about my character.

We didn't last in family therapy after our family therapist called my sister and brother out for their manipulative lies during our therapy sessions. They quit going after the therapist called them both out and held them accountable for their choices. Because you see, narcissists don't like to be held accountable for their behavior.

I'm trying to figure out how to tell my sister my new boundary: that I won't be available to dog sit. In fact, I have a truthful reason. Some friends invited me to take a trip to go visit them the same week of my sister's trip with her family to Florida. So, there is my valid reason. She can easily have their next door neighbor walk over the 20 feet to let their dog out and feed the dog 3 times a day.

They did it before. As much as I love my sister's dog, I don't want to dog sit anymore b/c it feels like I'm an indentured servant. It's expected because I never say no, out of fear that my sister will pull the silent treatment act. But now that I know her daughter doesn't respect me, and her two sons are too young to think for themselves still about their mom's toxic sister-relationship and where they see me, I can't hep her sons see the truth about my sister's narcissism until they are older.

Originally Posted by [B

RoxanneToto;7176155]@Motts - the fact your sister made someone [/B]want to break up with you is truly nasty, and very unfair of her, though I suspect she knew and as you said before, didn’t want to take responsibility. She blameshifted to you as she didn’t see what she was doing as wrong, as people with narcissistic tendencies think everything they do is right, sometimes even including illegal things.

I’m currently grey rock with these relatives - well, cordial and polite rather than true grey rock boring. Most of them I literally only see because I still live with my mum (long ish story), but if/when I get my own place, I likely won’t see them much, if at all.

Yes, and this was 11 years ago. I knew bringing him over there to her house was not going to end well and I was correct. All of the men I introduced to my sister fled. Sure, I'm guessing they weren't a good fit for me for my own reasons with them (that made us incompatible with each other already).

My sister has disparaged me to anyone who will listen and she does it with a sneering smile on her face. Then denies it when I find out and directly ask her "Why?" She plays the victim card to avoid being held accountable, "You always pick on me. Maybe you're projecting your own insecurities with these guys on to me b/c I'm an easy target. Why would I tell them to run away from you? I want you to be happy." She's a good actress. Her crazy making skills are sharper than a Number 2 pencil tip.

She loves to blameshift. She blameshifts with her husband and children who probably see that my sister's a real self-centered narcissist and are just complacent for their own reasons. She's the type to accuse you of being emotionally divisive, when she's the one who is emotionally divisive. Does that make sense?

I'm proud of you for grey rocking your relatives while you live with your mum. Being cordial and pleasant is definitely a form of grey rock b/c it's surface level socialization. As long as we remember not to let these narcissists in deeper, we'll be safe.

I forget to do that with my sister and niece but now I feel ready to start developing that cordial greyrock method myself. Walk my own talk, if that makes sense. I mean, neither of them ever initiate social plans with me so they already ignore me. I just need to stop deluding myself that I can make them genuinely like me b/c they don't and have no desire to. So, I take ownership of that delusional thinking.

Originally Posted by Mendingmysoul

Actions speak louder than words.Your relationship with your sister and her daughter seems to be very toxic.Their actions are too disrespectful. So many red flags here.You seem to be holding onto a hope that they might change one day.

IMO they will continue to keep you in their life as long as you let them cross your boundaries and let them walk all over you or you keep being useful to them in some way.Non reciprocal, one way relationships based on selfish motives,do not have heart to heart deep connections.I think your heart is telling you the truth about your sister.These relations inevitably fall through.

It is just a matter of time. See what happens once you put a simple boundary(saying no to dogsitting).I did the same with my sibling.They are so used to crossing my boundaries all the time that my first attempt to put a boundary did not go well.They became passive aggressive. It is not easy to recede from these toxic relationships.

I realised it is necessary to do so, to keep my sanity.I feel like a fool now,the red flags were always there,the disrespect was always there,I always took the high road hoping for the change which never happened. It looks like to me you have taken enough toxicity from them.Hugs.

It's an extremely toxic triangle relationship between my niece, her mom(my sister) and I. I know my sister's parenting is responsible for some of my niece's indifference and rudeness towards me. Because my niece loved me when she was very little and was always calling me on my cellphone or sending me silly emails when she was in elementary school. That all stopped by the time she turned 15 and she literally stopped communicating with me after that altogether, unless I was invited over for birthdays or holidays. Then it was the requisite "hi aunt Motts" of polite, cordial behavior towards me that was obligatory more than genuine.

My heart hurts that I was not able to have a sister to emotionally bond with; who I could laugh and cry with mutually. At 51, I know that's just not possible because it never was possible. I have to stop being stubborn and just accept that my sister and her daughter want no part of my life.

I will definitely tell my sister that I have been invited to visit friends in another state the same week of dog sitting and will have to stand firm. My sister will do the guilt tripping but I am not going to budge. I love her dog but I'm done being her doormat. Her nextdoor neighbor can watch the dog for 7 days. That dog will survive without me being there.

There's a lot of dog sitters on different apps she could find herself; I won't suggest that as an alternative b/c that's not my job anymore. She's 49 years old. She's old enough to solve this problem. She will definitely become passive aggressive once I tell her no. You've inspired me to stand my ground b/c I'm such a wimp.

Has your sibling always bullied you? Don't beat yourself up about not seeing the red flags. I didn't know what the red flags were when I was younger. And, when we are entrenched...or enmeshed with our narcissist it's so hard to disentangle ourselves from our toxic pattern. So hard. I commend you on doing it with your sibling; establishing boundaries and sticking to them despite your sibling's passive aggressive responses. If you can do it, so can I (I hope).

It's always the kind siblings who become the fixed targets of the narcissist family members. We have no support even from the flying monkeys who support the narcissists b/c they don't want to lose their place of power (an illusion created for them by the narcissist sibling through great storytelling and embellishment that never gets fact checked or verified by the flying monkeys, b/c they are also self-involved).

Originally Posted by [B

downandlonely;[/B]7176252]That question about judgment is interesting Motts. At times I have felt judged for not being close to my family of origin.

When I first moved to another state, I wanted to work with children, so I signed up to be a Big Sister with Big Brothers, Big Sisters. They asked for references and did a criminal background check and an interview (all of which I support.
I understand that they do not want people who may harm the children). But the interview completely blindsided me because it was all about my relationship with my family of origin. They specifically asked me about my relationship with each parent and sibling. They seemed disappointed when I said I didn't talk to any of them much.

In the end, I somehow failed the interview, because they told me that I was not selected as a volunteer. They also said that it was their policy never to to tell people why they were not selected, so I was left to wonder. I know for a fact my criminal background check was fine. So I really think it came down to the interview and that they felt someone who is not close to family of origin should not be around children.

That was one of the most hurtful experiences of my life, especially because at that point I was considering adopting children (I don't want to pass on my genes, so do not want biological children). But hearing that they don't trust me to spend one hour a week with a child pretty much dashed my hopes that I would ever be selected as an adoptive parent.

I suppose this is hardly reassuring, but I do think there needs to be a shift in the mindset that people should be close to those they are biologically related to.

Wow, that stinks DAL that your own family undermined your Big Brothers/Sisters volunteer interview by disparaging your character. Of course that's why you failed the interview: your family lied about you b/c you were strong enough to geographically and emotionally separate yourself from their poisonous grasp.

If you really want to foster children as a single mom you can do it. You can use other people to act as character references whom you know will validate you great character to the right social services people in charge. Toxic families are definitely poison to people like us in my thread, who deserve to lead happy, healthy, fulfilled lives. We just can't do that if we include these toxic family members in our lives.

I know this intellectually...now I just need to get my emotional state of mind to catch up so I can let go, grieve the loss of my toxic family and stop talking the big talk and do something about it. Being alone at 51 without any family will be scary but I have to do it. It will force me to find my "tribe." I'm tired of not pursuing the life I wanted to have 30 years ago. Right?!

So my sister texts me today. She got a phone call from our aunt (whom she disparages me to on the regular, so that aunt no longer talks to me) about a cousin who has heart problems. So, I used this as the opportunity to decline dog sitting WHICH I DID decline. I wrote, "Sorry but I can't dog sit for you on [dates]. My sister texted back, "What's going on?" I chose not to take her bait. So, I grey rocked my sister with "I am not able to dog sit on those dates." Luckily, my sister didn't try to argue with me about it via text.

I'm really proud of myself you guys. I declined dog sitting and I didn't explain myself or apologize for that boundary with my sister.

[Mendingmysoul]

Good job dear Motts.You stood your ground.We do not have to explain why we are putting a boundary. I too didn't explain myself when I said no for the first time.

[downandlonely]

Originally Posted by Motts

Wow, that stinks DAL that your own family undermined your Big Brothers/Sisters volunteer interview by disparaging your character. Of course that's why you failed the interview: your family lied about you b/c you were strong enough to geographically and emotionally separate yourself from their poisonous grasp.

If you really want to foster children as a single mom you can do it. You can use other people to act as character references whom you know will validate you great character to the right social services people in charge. Toxic families are definitely poison to people like us in my thread, who deserve to lead happy, healthy, fulfilled lives. We just can't do that if we include these toxic family members in our lives.

I know this intellectually...now I just need to get my emotional state of mind to catch up so I can let go, grieve the loss of my toxic family and stop talking the big talk and do something about it. Being alone at 51 without any family will be scary but I have to do it. It will force me to find my "tribe." I'm tired of not pursuing the life I wanted to have 30 years ago. Right?!

I guess I didn't explain it well. I did not ask my family to be my references. I chose other people for that. The Big Brothers/Big Sisters organization interviewed me by myself for an hour. But all their questions were about my relationship with my family, and I answered them honestly. I was not expecting them to ask the specifics of my relationship with each member of my family. I told them I didn't talk to my family much, and that was the red flag for them.

Originally Posted by Mendingmysoul

Good job dear Motts.You stood your ground.We do not have to explain why we are putting a boundary. I too didn't explain myself when I said no for the first time.

Thank you Mendingmysoul! I'm proud of myself. And you're correct, we don't have to explain why we are putting up a boundary. Good for you for not explaining yourself when you said 'no' the first time, too.

Just now, my sister sent me a fake empathy text. I say 'fake empathy' because she NEVER in her 49 years has shown me genuine compassion or empathy...ever.

Here's an blog I found online about the types of fake empathy that narcissists use on their victims.

Here's what she texted (and notice she tries to bait me again in her text. I bolded that part b/c it's so blatant an example of her narcissism).

"Ok, I’ll find another situation for [dog's name].
If I can help support you in any way let me know, I’m not sure if I’m part of the problem but if not, just let me know what would be helpful."

So I grey rocked her again, refusing to take her emotional baiting.

I texted back, "I can't dog sit for you on [dates]." I don't owe her an explanation. She didn't get one from me.

I feel good about myself today. I decided that today is the first day of the rest of my life. And, at 51, it's not too late for me to find happiness with other people who can be psuedo-family roles who are healthy people to have in my life instead of the toxic family members that I have around me.

Originally Posted by downandlonely

I guess I didn't explain it well. I did not ask my family to be my references. I chose other people for that. The Big Brothers/Big Sisters organization interviewed me by myself for an hour. But all their questions were about my relationship with my family, and I answered them honestly. I was not expecting them to ask the specifics of my relationship with each member of my family. I told them I didn't talk to my family much, and that was the red flag for them.

I misread your first post. I thought the staff at Big Bros. Big Sisters judged you for admitting to them in your interview that you aren't close to your family. I reread what I wrote and it comes across like I assumed the staff interviewed your family. Sorry for that confusion. But i got it. The staff still judged you wrongly. Don't let their judgment stop you from becoming a foster parent though.

[Mendingmysoul]

My sister too texted me like this,but more of in a passive aggressive way,I actually took her bait once.She started texting me in a rude way that I need to communicate more frequently with some of others.Now a days I am on a quest to relearn about toxic relationships, part of which is to grey rock some of them.I cannot take the toxicity anymore.I think they all are talking behind my back, about how I am not in contact with them.After I put up a boundary with my sibling,she started argumentative texts about these other relatives and that I was ghosting them.It was none of her business actually. I texted back and forth trying to convince her logically.She was angry and rude to the point that she just tried to blame and shame me for no reason.I realised she was guilttripping me and indirectly was presenting her case too.I backed off.I saw no reason to keep trying to make her understand.She sent me some angry emojis, but I kept quiet. After a couple of weeks she texted if I was doing ok?I answered in short ..yes..She again texted after a week if I was ok.I again texted just yes.After doing the same for months,she started some hovering. She tried to make me emotional by texting some childhood things where I was actually mothering her.It looked like she was sending a message to me to go back to my original self.Passionate,empathic sister who always loved and protected her,no matter what.What did my original self got me so far?? Abuse,rudeness,disrespect. Time for change now.I am not a person who keeps grudges. I will not tolerate abuse anymore.So after she tried bread crumbing me ,I just grey rocked. They lost a person who could love them unconditionally.