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Default May 15, 2022 at 06:51 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by MuseumGhost View Post
I know, rd, I too wish they should be somehow forced to walk in our shoes for a month, just ONE month, with full-on anxiety and depression; and that would open up a lot of eyes to the realities of these illnesses. It would bring the ridiculous assumptions, generalization, and over-simplified, unhelpful advice to a screeching halt.

I'm pretty certain the education levels of the people who've shared their "thoughts" with me are pretty basic. Only one was college-educated, but it was a technical college and not a liberal arts degree by any means. Also, them saying things like that to me---when they really did not know me at all---was deeply insulting. As if THIS is what I dreamed of and worked hard for, all of my life, since before college, and through the start of my career. As if anyone would choose to feel like this, for longer than a day.

Really, anyone who thinks like this is no towering intellect.
I agree, people act like those with depression choose to feel that way. Those with this mindset are very uneducated, they truly believe they have the right answers regarding mental illnesses. In fact, I know some people who would probably still deny the existence of depression even if they were forced to walk in the shoes of a depressed person for a month, they would deny they really feel depressed at all or that they were able to cure themselves. Some people will never accept that mental illnesses are a real thing, this is probably a big reason as to why so many people with depression and other disorders refuse to seek help.
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Default May 15, 2022 at 06:54 AM
  #22
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Got news for you....towering intellects aren't any better because many times they are the ones who just worked through what they experienced & succeeded so they think everyone else should be able to do that too. Understanding MH, has nothing to do with intellect but has everything to do with one's actual experiences & how they perceive the life they have experienced themselves
That's a valid point, there are people who believe that if they got through their own depression and overcame it without problem then other people should too. Not everyone experiences it the same way but lots of people think depression is the same for everyone, it can be frustrating.
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Default May 15, 2022 at 06:58 AM
  #23
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Just thinking about those of us expecting others to educate themselves about depression /anxiety that we experience.

Just because I am involved with foaling mares & the experiences I go through with that, does it mean that I should expect everyone around me to educate themselves about it?

Seriously, I educate myself mostly about things that effect my life personally, then I educate myself about things I am interested in. Other things I may not make accurate assumptions about if someone draws me into a conversation about something I don't know about. Most times life is so filled with things I have to do that educating myself on the million other things out there in the world isn't even possible. Does that mean I don't have an opinion (everyone is entitled to have their own opinion) even if it doesn't agree with ours.

I think those of us who struggle with mental illness need to be as understanding of others as we expect them to be about us
I see where you're coming from, I know we can't expect people to always understand what those with mental illness are going through. I think the thing people with mental illness get annoyed with the most is when people act like there's no such thing as mental illness or that you can easily get over it yourself, there are some who truly believe without a shadow of a doubt that if you're depressed then that is 100 percent on you and no one else but you and that is completely your fault that you feel that way which is why those with depression feel like they have to hide how they feel.
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Default May 15, 2022 at 07:25 AM
  #24
I would also add that although most people will never foal a mare, I think everyone knows someone with a mental illness.

But I don't really expect people to educate themselves. I will be happy to educate them as long as they are open to learning.
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Default May 15, 2022 at 09:07 AM
  #25
Not everyone knows someone at a personal level who has mental illness. I was actually in my 40's before it was more than something out there in the world that REALLY NEEDED my understanding. Life is filled with needs that require understanding in people's lives & spending the time to educate one's self about things in the world that don't touch their life is next to impossible. Even just knowing someone, if they aren't close & require much interfacing with, one does not always have the time to really get a real understanding until it hits really close & personal. Problem is that some people are arrogant with a "know it all" attitude that spew out opinion rather than facts. Those kind of people I don't listen to in the first place

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Default May 15, 2022 at 09:09 AM
  #26
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I would also add that although most people will never foal a mare, I think everyone knows someone with a mental illness.

But I don't really expect people to educate themselves. I will be happy to educate them as long as they are open to learning.
Yes I agree that everyone knows someone will an illness, mental illness is super common and I'm happy to educate anyone who is open minded and willing to learn. It's not the fact that people don't understand mental illness that annoys me, it's the total disregard and unwillingness to understand that gets on my nerves. I'm more understanding if someone has truly good intentions but just don't know what it's like, that's actually very common. I'll be honest, I once thought everyone experienced mental illness the same way but then I learned that's not true so I know not everyone who is not educated has bad intentions.
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Default May 15, 2022 at 09:14 AM
  #27
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Not everyone knows someone at a personal level who has mental illness. I was actually in my 40's before it was more than something out there in the world that REALLY NEEDED my understanding. Life is filled with needs that require understanding in people's lives & spending the time to educate one's self about things in the world that don't touch their life is next to impossible. Even just knowing someone, if they aren't close & require much interfacing with, one does not always have the time to really get a real understanding until it hits really close & personal. Problem is that some people are arrogant with a "know it all" attitude that spew out opinion rather than facts. Those kind of people I don't listen to in the first place
Yes I agree, it's the arrogant ones that I refuse to listen to. They believe they have all the right answers even though they never had any history in the psychology field or never experienced a mental illness, and there are even times when people who do have a mental illness can become arrogant. I knew someone who claimed to have depression that would tell others who were depressed how they need to just stop thinking negative thoughts and things will get better because that's what she apparently did, she would get mad at anyone who didn't take her advice. So it's not just those without mental illness that can develop an arrogant attitude, even those who do suffer can become arrogant since they believe others can move on just as easily as they can even though that's not always the case.
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Default May 15, 2022 at 09:14 AM
  #28
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I see where you're coming from, I know we can't expect people to always understand what those with mental illness are going through. I think the thing people with mental illness get annoyed with the most is when people act like there's no such thing as mental illness or that you can easily get over it yourself, there are some who truly believe without a shadow of a doubt that if you're depressed then that is 100 percent on you and no one else but you and that is completely your fault that you feel that way which is why those with depression feel like they have to hide how they feel.
Thing is, if those people don't touch my life personally, I really don't care about what they think or the judgments they speak. On the other hand, when one first experiences MI, they are also in the learning process & in that process can help those around them understand it better too. Those are who count in our lives.....but we also have to understand whether we have MI or not, there are just some people in this world who will never change their thinking or opinions & those we need to just write off instead of banging our heads against the wall trying to make them learn & expecting them to change

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Default May 15, 2022 at 06:14 PM
  #29
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Thing is, if those people don't touch my life personally, I really don't care about what they think or the judgments they speak. On the other hand, when one first experiences MI, they are also in the learning process & in that process can help those around them understand it better too. Those are who count in our lives.....but we also have to understand whether we have MI or not, there are just some people in this world who will never change their thinking or opinions & those we need to just write off instead of banging our heads against the wall trying to make them learn & expecting them to change
Yeah everyone is different, some people will always be stuck in their way of thinking. With those people, I just simply don't bring up the topic of mental illness.
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Default May 16, 2022 at 07:56 AM
  #30
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Yeah everyone is different, some people will always be stuck in their way of thinking. With those people, I just simply don't bring up the topic of mental illness.
There are lots of topics I know a lot about but never bring up unless someone starts a discussion on that topic. I am never shy about diplomatically expressing an opposing bit of information which can sometimes either lead to discussion or at least plant a seed of a differing way of thinking about it. If it falls on deaf ears.... nothing I can do about that

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Default May 16, 2022 at 09:29 AM
  #31
I think for some or maybe even many people, it's not active denial; it's poor insight into one's mental health. Perhaps it looks the same one the outside -- the person does not seek or participate in treatment or will state that they don't have a problem -- but lack of insight is not a decision. It's truly not understanding something is wrong. I learned this from reading the book "I'm Not Sick. I Don't Need Help" by Xavier Amador
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Default May 16, 2022 at 11:35 AM
  #32
I think the point of the OP is getting a bit lost. We're talking about people who feel it necessary to get up in our faces and deny that Depression/ Anxiety actually are valid medical issues, and who also feel the need to somehow deny that it exists at all.

I appreciate your metaphor about foaling horses, eskie. But I doubt many people, having witnessed you assisting with this amazing experience/ near miracle, would turn to you and say something on the order of, "You didn't just do that. Foaling horses does not exist. You shouldn't be proud of yourself; you didn't assist that mare or foal at all.". They'd be much more likely to be in awe of you, and to admire your courage and knowledge. They'd also probably leave the scene as slightly changed people, with new and different viewpoints.

The discussion is really about people's possible motives for being mental illness deniers. In my experiences with these folks, I've just peacefully handled the situation; partly out of politics, and partly because I know that they would not be moved, no matter what I had to say. They were, in large part, attempting to diminish me and my genuine health concerns---and that falls under the heading of emotional abuse, in my book. And no matter whether I'm doing well or I'm currently just treading water, I do not welcome or forgive this kind of behaviour.

I have had to give it all a lot of thought, as it's come at me from so many different directions. I am wiser than I was, and now do not simply share with casual acquaintances (even if they are very good friends of my husband) what is going on in my personal life. My mistake was to assume that they would be protective and sympathetic people. Now I know better.

The attacks that came at me from a family member were the most unforgivable, because they were definitely designed and calculated to do harm. Don't even get me started on that. (She shot her patented poisoned darts at me several times on different occasions, probably trying to goad me into losing it; a favourite cruel game of hers.) I had to endure her tortures without complaint, because she had snowed everyone in the family into believing that she was this benevolent, harmless little dolly of an old lady. But she was quite the opposite, in fact. It amounted to me being in a great deal of emotional anguish for several years, as I could not visit my aging father without also having to see this person. It was a difficult time.

I have always been curious about certain forms of mental illness. Perhaps because I was exposed to it from such a young age. I instinctively knew my brother was having some difficulties as a pre-teen and teenager, and I also suspected both of my parents drank to mask some mild and cyclical situational depressions. Friends would discuss personal concerns with me on a regular basis, because they knew I was a good confidant---someone who tried to be sensitive and supportive, and who would keep their secrets. So I was forced to think about these things fairly young, from my early teens, onward.

But I do not believe it is EVERYONE'S job to educate themselves about mental illness. I DO believe it is everyone's job to try to be humane and considerate, especially when someone is sharing potentially painful and personal information with them.

I fear for the future. People do seem to be becoming less and less civil and kind, in general. As you can tell, I've not had much luck in my dealings with other human beings. I hope I am wrong, of course, and try to stay positive about it all. As I'm forever saying, The conversation has only really just started.

Last edited by MuseumGhost; May 16, 2022 at 11:52 AM..
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Default May 16, 2022 at 12:02 PM
  #33
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There are lots of topics I know a lot about but never bring up unless someone starts a discussion on that topic. I am never shy about diplomatically expressing an opposing bit of information which can sometimes either lead to discussion or at least plant a seed of a differing way of thinking about it. If it falls on deaf ears.... nothing I can do about that
Yep makes sense.
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Default May 16, 2022 at 12:02 PM
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I think for some or maybe even many people, it's not active denial; it's poor insight into one's mental health. Perhaps it looks the same one the outside -- the person does not seek or participate in treatment or will state that they don't have a problem -- but lack of insight is not a decision. It's truly not understanding something is wrong. I learned this from reading the book "I'm Not Sick. I Don't Need Help" by Xavier Amador
Yeah true, that can be the case as well.
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Default May 16, 2022 at 05:22 PM
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I think for some or maybe even many people, it's not active denial; it's poor insight into one's mental health. Perhaps it looks the same one the outside -- the person does not seek or participate in treatment or will state that they don't have a problem -- but lack of insight is not a decision. It's truly not understanding something is wrong. I learned this from reading the book "I'm Not Sick. I Don't Need Help" by Xavier Amador
This is so true. I left my H because things got mentally & financially abusive. I left like 2100 miles away & went to therapy to help me process all I had lived with. One T said I can't diagnose but this may be what is causing your H (wasn't divorced yet) to behave the way he is behaving. Sent an email suggesting that he might get some help with his behavior issues if he looked into getting a more detailed diagnosis. He got angry but later said that he actually realized what I said might be a real possibility as I sent examples of him vs the symptoms of a diagnosis. Told him if not the diagnosis at least he would know. He never bothered but at least the seed was planted as a possibility & not in total denial (just close cause never has gotten the help he needed & pretty much has destroyed his life. Just glad I didn't hang around to be part of that destruction

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Default May 18, 2022 at 06:52 AM
  #36
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I think the point of the OP is getting a bit lost. We're talking about people who feel it necessary to get up in our faces and deny that Depression/ Anxiety actually are valid medical issues, and who also feel the need to somehow deny that it exists at all.

I appreciate your metaphor about foaling horses, eskie. But I doubt many people, having witnessed you assisting with this amazing experience/ near miracle, would turn to you and say something on the order of, "You didn't just do that. Foaling horses does not exist. You shouldn't be proud of yourself; you didn't assist that mare or foal at all.". They'd be much more likely to be in awe of you, and to admire your courage and knowledge. They'd also probably leave the scene as slightly changed people, with new and different viewpoints.

The discussion is really about people's possible motives for being mental illness deniers. In my experiences with these folks, I've just peacefully handled the situation; partly out of politics, and partly because I know that they would not be moved, no matter what I had to say. They were, in large part, attempting to diminish me and my genuine health concerns---and that falls under the heading of emotional abuse, in my book. And no matter whether I'm doing well or I'm currently just treading water, I do not welcome or forgive this kind of behaviour.

I have had to give it all a lot of thought, as it's come at me from so many different directions. I am wiser than I was, and now do not simply share with casual acquaintances (even if they are very good friends of my husband) what is going on in my personal life. My mistake was to assume that they would be protective and sympathetic people. Now I know better.

The attacks that came at me from a family member were the most unforgivable, because they were definitely designed and calculated to do harm. Don't even get me started on that. (She shot her patented poisoned darts at me several times on different occasions, probably trying to goad me into losing it; a favourite cruel game of hers.) I had to endure her tortures without complaint, because she had snowed everyone in the family into believing that she was this benevolent, harmless little dolly of an old lady. But she was quite the opposite, in fact. It amounted to me being in a great deal of emotional anguish for several years, as I could not visit my aging father without also having to see this person. It was a difficult time.

I have always been curious about certain forms of mental illness. Perhaps because I was exposed to it from such a young age. I instinctively knew my brother was having some difficulties as a pre-teen and teenager, and I also suspected both of my parents drank to mask some mild and cyclical situational depressions. Friends would discuss personal concerns with me on a regular basis, because they knew I was a good confidant---someone who tried to be sensitive and supportive, and who would keep their secrets. So I was forced to think about these things fairly young, from my early teens, onward.

But I do not believe it is EVERYONE'S job to educate themselves about mental illness. I DO believe it is everyone's job to try to be humane and considerate, especially when someone is sharing potentially painful and personal information with them.

I fear for the future. People do seem to be becoming less and less civil and kind, in general. As you can tell, I've not had much luck in my dealings with other human beings. I hope I am wrong, of course, and try to stay positive about it all. As I'm forever saying, The conversation has only really just started.
Yeah I think some people may have misunderstood the point I was making. I'm not saying that we need to force people to understand mental illnesses and force them to be educated. I just think some people need to stop acting like mental illnesses don't exist and being deliberately rude and condescending to those who have it and deny that any of that exists. Also some people may deny any mental illness exists as a coping mechanism for something they're going through as a form of denial or acting like they're tough and have their life together on the outside to please other people even though they may be falling apart on the inside.

Last edited by rdgrad15; May 18, 2022 at 07:41 AM..
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Default May 18, 2022 at 06:53 AM
  #37
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This is so true. I left my H because things got mentally & financially abusive. I left like 2100 miles away & went to therapy to help me process all I had lived with. One T said I can't diagnose but this may be what is causing your H (wasn't divorced yet) to behave the way he is behaving. Sent an email suggesting that he might get some help with his behavior issues if he looked into getting a more detailed diagnosis. He got angry but later said that he actually realized what I said might be a real possibility as I sent examples of him vs the symptoms of a diagnosis. Told him if not the diagnosis at least he would know. He never bothered but at least the seed was planted as a possibility & not in total denial (just close cause never has gotten the help he needed & pretty much has destroyed his life. Just glad I didn't hang around to be part of that destruction
Yep denial plays a big part in it since most don't want to admit that something is wrong with them.
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Default May 18, 2022 at 02:32 PM
  #38
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I've never found exercising to be that helpful for my mood, but I can't deny that there are physical benefits.

I've been told that "I don't look depressed" or that I'm too beautiful to be depressed. I find that maddening. Outward appearance has no effect on mental illness.

In the throes of deep depression (MDD), I was once told "you don't look depressed, you seem happy." Because I was out and about, and engaged in conversation. It really is very hard for most people, even those with mh issues themselves sometimes, to understand mental illness and the inner experiences of others. Mental illness related, or not.
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Default May 19, 2022 at 07:15 PM
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In the throes of deep depression (MDD), I was once told "you don't look depressed, you seem happy." Because I was out and about, and engaged in conversation. It really is very hard for most people, even those with mh issues themselves sometimes, to understand mental illness and the inner experiences of others. Mental illness related, or not.
Yeah it's difficult for people to understand.
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