[Ygrec23]

I'm 66. Like many other people with mind problems, I've indulged in many bad habits for relief. Now it's crunch time. There are many obvious things that I could do, but I don't know if it's too late. I find accurate, adequate and realistic life-extension information, specifically for seniors with mind problems, hard to find and assess.

So I'm starting this thread. My intention is to create a place where we can share (1) things our doctors tell us; (2) appropriate web resources; and (3) our own personal experiences, as well as asking questions that others may be able to answer.

All of the above is really general, while the more focussed specific question for all of us is this: Considering our prior bad or unfortunate habits, what (if anything) can we do at this stage of the game to prolong our active lives? Obviously stopping smoking is Number 1, Number 2, and Number 3, but what about other things?

Is it too late for exercise to have any life-extending possibilities for me? What about eating habits? Mindfulness meditation? Social interaction? All of these things, we know, will have a great effect if one is younger. Will they actually improve the quality of our senior lives or even extend them?

I've been an AARP member for years, and avidly consume their information products. But they don't have a subgroup for seniors with mind problems. Why does that matter? Because (I believe) seniors with mind problems have a different relationship with unhealthy habits than do others. The need for instant gratification is stronger among seniors with mind problems (I believe), many of whom (certainly including myself) rely on unhealthy habits for some relief from mental pain or discomfort.

Yet many of us are embarassed to admit ignoring our health in these ways. Modern society does very much look down on such unhealthy practices, viewing them as character weaknesses and sheer self-indulgence. Only we, afflicted seniors, know how hard it is to keep our heads above water without these unhealthy habits.

It would be easier for me, at least, to try to get rid of these bad habits if I knew there was still, at my age, a real payoff, a real advantage. And not just general reassurances either. No. I mean serious statistical backup for quantitative improvements in quality and length of life. I'm not only not interested in developing or radiating the kind of "holier than thou" attitude of so many people who always "do the healthy thing," I find it disgusting. I just want to try to do things that will keep me alive and walking around longer.

Can we share such information here? Can we answer questions here? I would very much hope we can and look forward to hearing about your experiences, the input you've received, and pointers to where we can find more detailed, professional advice on the web.

Take very good care indeed! Ygrec

[lynn P.]

This is a very good thread topic Ygrec23. I'm not in my 60 yet but I do want to be a healthy elderly person. I don't think its too late to improve your lifetyle with healthier habits. Its well known exercise improves the brain and you should look for other seniors you can exercise with, because people are more likely to keep it up if they have someone who's counting on them. Using weght resisitance is also very important since we start losing muscle after 35. This is one of the main reasons seniors fall - because they're too weak to balance or save themselves when they're about to fall.

I recommend not to drink alcohol - not good for the brain. You can also look up Brain Plasticity and PBS had shows on this topic. There's also books on a brain healthy diet. Learning a new hobby or anything new, like a musical instrument or language stimulates the brain. If you live near a mall, many communities have a mall walker seniors group.

hi, ygrec - well, first of all you need to stop smoking. even a few cigarettes a day do serious damage and you can develop COPD and emphysema. walking daily and light resistant weight training 2-3 days a week are recommended. the weight training is especially good for your bones! recently, i took up cycling and the low impact of it and cardio benefits are spectacular. also good for the bones are calcium with vitamin D vitamins.

dietary wise, you have to eat your leafy green vegetables daily. coffee and tea (watch out for the sugar) are both good for you with antioxidants and flavenoids.

i know someone who read novels everday to keep his mind sharp. and, it did until the end.

to protect your cardio system, you have to keep the arteries flexible. olive oil is great for that. pour EVOO on all foods as much as possible. other foods that help with that are oatmeal, beans, fish oil pills, cold water fish including salmon and tuna. olives are a great snack. it is also usually recommended that one lower salt intake. say 'bye to dessert cakes, pies and snacks and say hello to fresh fruit.

being social helps a lot too. have you tried www.meetup.com?

[Ygrec23]

Thanks to you folks who have posted good material here. I've been wandering around the net looking for health information specifically targeted to older mental health patients. Been to NIMH. Been to NAMH. Been to NAMI. Went through everything here at Psych Central that I could find. I don't know if it's me or not, but I couldn't find a thing dealing with the physical health problems of older mental health patients, let alone tailored suggestions.

Of course, if any of you readers or posters know of any such materials, be so kind, please, to post directions here about where to find them. Take care!

I like to go to www.webmd.com for information. They don't seem to have a section on aging, so you will have to look up the illnesses of concern separately. Here's a link to the alzheimer's section. http://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/default.htm I am very happy to hear that you are doing this research with the intent to improve your health! It's very a very positive thing to do and we all should be so proactive!!

[Perna]

I'm trying to keep it simple but then, I'm only 61.

The best six doctors anywhere
And no one can deny it
Are sunshine, water, rest, and air
Exercise and diet.
These six will gladly you attend
If only you are willing
Your mind they'll ease
Your will they'll mend
And charge you not a shilling.

[Perna]

New York City has a "virtual senior center" http://selfhelp.net/virtual-senior-center-articles that I think is a kind of neat model; I've looked into the senior centers in my community but the social demographics of my community doesn't quite fit me and I find the pickings pretty "lean" for what interests me.

http://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-leaving-home/

I like to consider the difficulties of aging; transportation/driving/getting out-and-about, for example. I thought up a low-cost, subscription, "car and driver"/taxi sort of thing for the elderly, a kind of non-profit association scheme I liked a couple years ago.

I live in a university-rich community and thought hiring social work/gerontology students to be drivers as they work their way through school, kind of helper/friends of the elderly members, one would match up the individual case load with the student and provide the elderly member with someone they could get to know and trust as well as give the student some real-life experiences working with the elderly.

It would not be perfect; one would also screen members so they'd have to be able to get along with a driver as well as the driver have to get along with them; hopefully each accepting/choosing the other through interviews. If no one wanted to be driver to a person, didn't like their personality, it would be a matter of putting them on a waiting list or otherwise explaining there was no one available at this time to drive them.

But, there would be differing programs one could choose, one would set up a basic, sort-of schedule (X trips to the grocery store and Y medical a month for Z dollars) or there would be add-on's so there was greater flexibility of "when" or "what" (night out, being dropped off X place and time and picked up Y place and time). Because it would be non-profit and, hopefully, there would be grants, even poorer elderly could get the basic help for little or no fee; there would be a sliding scale of service prices.

[Ygrec23]

Thanks, Unhappyguy! Your information and comments are appreciated! I wonder, though, whether what I see as the real, underlying situation is consciously appreciated. I certainly haven't ever (ever) seen it addressed directly in anything I've read. So I'll try and express it here, though I've never even tried to do it before and don't know how well a first attempt will come out.

I would think that all of us human beings (and animals too for all I know) have internal, psychological "weather" in which we live and think and feel and act at all times. It sometimes gets better and sometimes gets worse, for reasons some of which we know and some of which we don't. There's no question but that it's terribly subjective, which makes it harder to talk or write about.

Some of this "weather" is good, some neutral, some bad. It's my impression, as a lay person, that people with mental problems have more bad internal "weather" than people without such problems. And everything such people do each day, whether they have to or choose to, frequently has to be done in the face of more bad weather than people without similar kinds of problems.

Perhaps for some bad weather comes in spurts or episodes or alternates with good or neutral weather. For others internal bad weather can be pretty constant, perhaps differing in intensity but always there. And here we get to the relevance of internal bad weather to healthy living.

I think it takes more energy, more willpower, more force, for people with frequent or permanent internal bad weather to surmount the difficulties and pains of doing healthy things. Or, rather, their bad weather compels them all too frequently to do unhealthy things to counteract or protect themselves against their internal pain and misery. Self-medication or whatever you want to call it (but it would include lots of comfort food and sedentary behavior, not usually thought of as self-medication).

NOT to use such means to alleviate their situations translates into suffering. Or more suffering than they're willing to tolerate or, perhaps, capable of tolerating. So asking many (not all) mind-afflicted persons NOT to smoke, NOT to drink, NOT to eat starch, fat or salt, or NOT to spend the day on the sofa, is, to my mind, much more than asking an unafflicted person to do so.

The situation of us seniors doubles down on those problems. We may have lived an entire lifetime immersed in bad habits for reasons of mental weather. And the longer a bad habit persists, the harder it is to change, particularly if it's used to avoid pain. And then, of course, we may feel that it's pretty much over now, so why suffer to make changes?

In thinking about starting this thread I was (and still am) wondering about what kind of information and encouragement would be of particular use to afflicted seniors in overcoming their much greater inertia when it comes to living a healthy life. That's really all we deal in here at PC, information and encouragement. And I don't really know if there's anything else one CAN use in such situations.

No one, including mentally afflicted people, will disagree with the proposition that it makes much more sense to live a healthy life. But the subjective costs of doing so, for us, are frequently (not always) higher than they are for other people. And I started this thread to find out whether all of us could, by putting our heads together, figure out more effective ways of getting people in our situation to put up with a healthy way of life.

Now, I'm fully aware that there are many of you who will read this who live perfectly healthy lives and can't really relate to what I've said. But the health and mortality statistics prove without possibility of contradiction that people with mind problems are significantly more unhealthy than the average. And then, if and when you make it to old age, you really have to wonder whether changing now is going to make any difference at all.

How can we energize and infuse with hope seniors like ourselves who need something more, something extra to drop their bad habits and purchase a few more years of healthy life?

Over to you!

[ECHOES]

Ygrec, here is a link to the UC Davis Alzheimers Disease Research Center that might be useful and/or interesting

http://alzheimer.ucdavis.edu/

[Ygrec23]

Thanks to all of you who have participated in this thread. However, I still have doubts that I'm really making my point and getting it across.

Effectively motivating elders to change in some cases lifelong health-related habits has got to be very difficult. To the extent that many family doctors may well have given up.

What I'm looking for, seeking after, trying to research here are the successful motivational keys to energizing seniors to change bad habits that themselves may well have very positive value for the seniors involved. They sure do for me.

Lots of people in lots of places have got to be thinking and talking and writing about this. I would most appreciate your copying down location information if and when you come across it in the most serious, scientific, studies of effective health motivation, and telling us about it here.

I'm out there searching the internet and will report back when I find things. I'd appreciate your doing the same.

Take care!

[Ygrec23]

Well, I've been wandering around in netland and I can tell you there's a heck of a lot of relevant information out there. Not, however, in the particular form or shape I'm looking for. So it looks like a do-it-yourself project. I'm trying to find information relevant to motivating seniors with some form of mental illness to change sometimes life-long habits with the understanding that such seniors have shorter time-horizons than the younger people to whom most health-promoting advice is addressed.

Obviously, what it comes down to in the end is this: will such-and-such a behavioral change, undertaken in the face of my mental misery, either (a) extend my life and if so by how much, and/or (b) make what remains of my life simply more enjoyable by giving me more "quality of life" (continued mobility, clearmindedness, and fewer aches and pains). I.e., do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages of giving up the daily crutches of substances, unhealthy foods and sedentary living?

While it's not all that terribly hard to find information on any single item involved in the thinking described in the preceding paragraph, I haven't as of yet found anything that even tries to link all these things together. It's possible (just possible, neither necessary nor likely) that even mentally troubled seniors are too diverse a group about which to make easy generalizations. I don't know. If I find out, I'll tell you. Take care!

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

I'm trying to find information relevant to motivating seniors with some form of mental illness to change sometimes life-long habits with the understanding that such seniors have shorter time-horizons than the younger people to whom most health-promoting advice is addressed.

Obviously, what it comes down to in the end is this: will such-and-such a behavioral change, undertaken in the face of my mental misery, either (a) extend my life and if so by how much, and/or (b) make what remains of my life simply more enjoyable by giving me more "quality of life" (continued mobility, clearmindedness, and fewer aches and pains). I.e., do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages of giving up the daily crutches of substances, unhealthy foods and sedentary living?

While it's not all that terribly hard to find information on any single item involved in the thinking described in the preceding paragraph, I haven't as of yet found anything that even tries to link all these things together. It's possible (just possible, neither necessary nor likely) that even mentally troubled seniors are too diverse a group about which to make easy generalizations. I don't know. If I find out, I'll tell you. Take care!

hi, ygrec. well, i think it's curious how in this thread you are seeking information on how to live healthier and longer and in another thread are discussing how self-medicating oneself is an essential part of living. hmmm . . . am i sensing mixed emotions about living more healthfully?

some people live unhealthy lifestyles and still manage to live long lives. i guess it comes down to good genes and a little luck. still, the vices will eventually catch up with you. perhaps the quandry is that you are concerned about quality of life issues if you give up the vices. you seem to want some guaranteed assurance that your life will improve if you give them up. the ill effects of vices such as smoking are well documented for people of all ages, not just seniors. but, you seem to want info that pertains only to seniors since your goal appears to be to give up the vices only if there is evidence that it will improve your health and life. you want guaranteed assurances in life? please! you should know better by now!!

so, it's like this - if you continue to smoke cigarettes you will increase of chances of cancer, emphysema and COPD. will you be happier if you give up cigarettes? probably not - you are a nicotine addict and you crave the self-medication it provides. granted, it's not medication at all - smoking is pure poison to the lungs and circulatory system. and there is no guarantee you will be happier if you give it up. giving it up means going through nicotine withdrawal which is not easy or fun. however, giving up smoking will let you breathe easier and will make food taste better. the damage it has done to your lungs and circulatory system will not progress further though these are things you will feel rather than see. and, you probably already have some permanent damage to your lungs and circulatory system. so, what to do?

ditto with exercise. should you take it up now even though you have neglected your body for years? exercise leads to aches and pains. and, it will force your lungs and circulatory system (both damaged from smoking) to work harder. regardless, lifting weights will be good for your bones and muscles though it will initially make you feel sore and may feel strange at first since you have neglected your physical body for a long time. so, what to do? frankly, i would give up smoking and go to the gym. but, you value "self-medication" (in the case of smoking, the actual correct term would be "self-harm") more than i do.

oddly, i am going to give you your own advice: TAKE CARE! which is to say, give up the cigs and start lifting weights and going for walks because real living involves doing healthy things and doing healthy things is true "self-medication."

[Ygrec23]

Thanks, unhappyguy, you make good points, so good that I'll reply specifically to a lot of them as follows:

Originally Posted by unhappyguy

hi, ygrec. well, i think it's curious how in this thread you are seeking information on how to live healthier and longer and in another thread are discussing how self-medicating oneself is an essential part of living. hmmm . . . am i sensing mixed emotions about living more healthfully?

Why curious? They're intimately related. I do self-medicate and that self-medicating overlaps with other bad habits of mine. Tobacco I'd like to give up, but my alcohol intake is low enough not to need adjusting at this point. My crummy food intake is also limited by (a) finances, and (b) the fact that Mrs. Y hasn't ever permitted any processed or convenience foods in the house. So really, for me, changing habits is focussed on (1) tobacco, (2) exercise, and (3) minor dietary changes (less salt, etc.)

some people live unhealthy lifestyles and still manage to live long lives. i guess it comes down to good genes and a little luck.

Don't have good genes. As for luck, I'm not betting on it.

you seem to want info that pertains only to seniors since your goal appears to be to give up the vices only if there is evidence that it will improve your health and life. you want guaranteed assurances in life? please! you should know better by now!!

No, I don't agree. There's no need for guarantees, but, as the old saying goes, I AM doing this for my health. I KNOW that doing what I want to do will be good for my health. I'm just curious to see whether anyone has actually quantified the positive results of this kind of change of behavior. I'd be flabbergasted if no one has. Considering how much health care money is involved, I would imagine that somewhere there are lots and lots of stats about this. I just have to find them.

so, it's like this - if you continue to smoke cigarettes you will increase of chances of cancer, emphysema and COPD. will you be happier if you give up cigarettes? probably not - you are a nicotine addict and you crave the self-medication it provides.

No question. I love cigarettes, but I've only been smoking for four or five years. That doesn't make it any easier to quit, though. I've tried to do it at least seven times.

so, what to do? frankly, i would give up smoking and go to the gym. but, you value "self-medication" (in the case of smoking, the actual correct term would be "self-harm") more than i do.

No. Wrong. I have never been in favor of destructive self-medication. My position on that issue has always been that over-self-medication or destructive self-medication is not acceptable. How to change it is a different question. My own smoking and sedentary life are not acceptable to me. My question is how to do it since I have a lot of difficulty trying to change it.

oddly, i am going to give you your own advice: TAKE CARE! which is to say, give up the cigs and start lifting weights and going for walks because real living involves doing healthy things and doing healthy things is true "self-medication."

You're right! Take care.

[Ygrec23]

Just another thought that relates to the issues being discussed here: different people connect differently with their own futures. For individual A, what happens to him/her in five years time is, say, 75% as real as what is happening today. For individual B, it's 50%. For individual C, it's 0%.

So it's much harder for individual C to change the present to avoid a negative outcome five years down the line. Individual A, with a very different sense of the future, will have an easier time doing things good for him/her in the future.

What affects that sense of the reality of the future? Me, I'm individual C and always have been. I noticed this in high school. I would see people doing quite a bit of heavy lifting to attain future goals a long ways away. And I couldn't relate to that. I'd try it out mentally, think myself into their situation, and it just wouldn't work. I never was able to get het up about the medium or long term. A grasshopper, not an ant.

Is such an orientation permanent? Just part of your personality? Can it be changed? I know I read an article about this recently, but since it wasn't phrased in these terms I didn't recognize the relevance and can't remember where I read it.

Anyone have any ideas about this? Take care.

[Ygrec23]

I have found a couple of articles here on PC that are relevant. Interestingly, I couldn't find these using only the on-site search facilities. It was only a Google search that brought them to light.

One is a book review about an interesting-sounding book:

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2010/cha...hange-success/

The other is an essay:

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2011/is-...abit-worth-it/

Take care!

[Ygrec23]

Here's a very good article indeed about motivating seniors to exercise:

http://www.instituteoflifestylemedic...s_Phillips.pdf

"Motivating Elders to Initiate and Maintain Exercise"

"As a result of inactivity, elderly persons experience preven-table functional decline, loss of independence, and increased disease burden. Many lack the strength, flexibility, or endurance to rise from a chair, walk, or dress independently. Exercise can delay, prevent, or even reverse these effects."

Take care.

[Ygrec23]

Actually, the article cited in my immediately prior post, about motivating seniors to exercise, is not only very good, as I said there, but really very, VERY good, and among the best I've ever read, about motivation in general and what to do to generate motivation in others. I simply can't recommend it highly enough. Everyone should read it. Certainly everyone over 50.

Take care!

[Perna]

I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all thing that will work. Technically I "should" lose 115 pounds but if I do that, at this stage, I'll be all floppy skin and that will cause its own problems? Too, the Biggest Loser contestants have to exercise 6+ hours a day to maintain their weight loss and at this age, I cannot see doing that to gain extra years, assuming that it too would not cause other snowball bad effects. There's a definite balance between lifestyle and how much you "enjoy" it versus how much effort you want to put out to gain a few extra years of that new lifestyle that you don't now have or particularly want? Change of any sort, stopping smoking, eating less, exercising more, etc. will have to be maintained and I don't want that lifestyle, ever! I enjoy my food and have no problem learning to eat more healthy, I've done that, and now I easily maintain my weight rather than gain. But eating "less" and exercising more (as in my signature :-) just isn't what I want!

I think the best idea I have for motivating myself is to focus on what I want, rather than on what I don't want. But "living longer" is not a clear cut goal? How about, "I want to learn to enjoy fish" if you think eating more fish will help you live longer? Then you take a continuing ed course at the junior college on cooking fish (been there, done that, cooked a salmon with mango chutney to die for and I had "thought" I did not like salmon before :-) or buy 3 different kinds of tuna/fish dinners and see which you prefer most, etc. Make it fun.

Related science that you are on the right track :-) http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=60659

[Perna]

One thing I do for motivation is time-limited "experiments". For example, I had my quarterly doctor's visit today and in 3 months (25 April) I go again and have a complete physical with EKG, pulmonary tests, etc. I noted how much I weighed on their scale and decided I want to lose 5% of my weight (about 1 pound a week) before the next appointment. I am having specific blood tests the week before which we will discuss and so I'm interested to see if I can make the blood tests come out well.

The blood pressure cuff inflation hurts my arm in doctor's offices and is a pain in the butt. Today the medical assistant measured 210/110 or something like that. It is probably accurate but skewed because of the pain and anxiety I feel. So, we calibrated my computerized wrist monitor with their monitor to see if it was accurate (it was) and twice a year I take my own blood pressure for the two or three weeks before I go in for my appointment and give him that list for my file. I did that today as well as taking him the ER paper I got with my bronchitis/asthma mess of 3 weeks ago.

Since then I have been learning more about blood pressure (did you know deep breathing will lower it?) and pulse pressure http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pulse-pressure/AN00968 and c-reactive protein (CRP). I took in scientific papers and discussed them with him about the relationship between blood pressure, pulse pressure, and CRP and one of the blood tests I'm having in mid-April is for the CRP. I plan to bring in my blood pressure readings again and then, each year we'll see if they are getting better/worse or what. They are possible harbingers of stroke!

http://www.docguide.com/association-...schemic-stroke

I'm curious about my health and how my body works and enjoy researching so I try various things (like the deep breathing to lower the blood pressure :-) That's where I get my motivation from, just being curious and wondering what will happen if. . . I love a challenge or "test" too, like to "win"/be best

[Perna]

I love Health Day articles; maybe you'll find something there?

http://consumer.healthday.com/

Like this I just read today:

http://consumer.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=655679

[Ygrec23]

Here's another very good and very relevant article:

"Normal and Successful Aging: What Happens to Function as We Age"

http://www.instituteoflifestylemedicine.org/file/doc/publications/articles_by/NormalAging_Phillips.pdf

Take care!

[LibertyBelle]

Here's some optimistic futuristic but real science:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...n-2313307.html

I quit smoking, I found that french fries with lots of ketchup helps the cravings. Simply put, tomatoes and potatoes are cousins to tobacco. I got a yo-yo to keep my hand busy, and chewed gum in between french fry snacks.

As far as keeping your mind young without printing yourself a new brain, would you consider trying video games? If you're in the camp that thinks they're bad, read Steven Johnson's book Everything Bad is Good for You. If you're open to the idea, but have never played one, you should start with a Wii. It comes with some sports games that will give you some exercise. Some good games are The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess (an adventure game: bad guys to fight, puzzles to solve, people to help) and Endless Ocean (very tranquil, scuba diving simulation, no threats, enemies or conflicts) just make sure it's not Endless Ocean Blue World (not as good as the original). The other bonus to the Wii is the News channel, it's like a newspaper that you can read on your tv and adjust the font size. My grandma loves it since the small text in newspapers strain her eyes and she doesn't like talking heads.

[LibertyBelle]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

I find accurate, adequate and realistic life-extension information, specifically for seniors with mind problems, hard to find and assess.

...seniors with mind problems have a different relationship with unhealthy habits than do others. The need for instant gratification is stronger among seniors with mind problems (I believe), many of whom (certainly including myself) rely on unhealthy habits for some relief from mental pain or discomfort.

It would be easier for me, at least, to try to get rid of these bad habits if I knew there was still, at my age, a real payoff, a real advantage...serious statistical backup for quantitative improvements in quality and length of life.

I just want to try to do things that will keep me alive and walking around longer.

I re-read your post and gathered up some more goodies. It might seem silly since I'm only 26 but as an optimistic futurist I think about quality life extension very often.

After mulling it over, I've come to the conclusion that video games are indeed your best, realistic, affordable, accessible and researched means of exercising and improving your mind and mood while tricking your brain into thinking it's your new "bad habit" and better then your old ones.

Here's some hard science via Google Scholar:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2827817/
http://www.springerlink.com/content/kkq7310322774735/
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...88.2011.625218

Here's some general info:
http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/f...keep-you-young
http://www.mastersofhealthcare.com/b...nline-and-off/

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Liberty_belle

I quit smoking, I found that french fries with lots of ketchup helps the cravings. Simply put, tomatoes and potatoes are cousins to tobacco. I got a yo-yo to keep my hand busy, and chewed gum in between french fry snacks.

What is that called, nightshade? That's so interesting! And funny! Altho one might want to do "baked fries" and sugar-free catsup. Also, I just ordered George Mateljan's Healthiest Foods, an 800-page food bible, I am trying to develop a real food plan so I don't pass my weeks eating the same things all the time. Thanks for this thread. I am basically trying to accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative.

[Ygrec23]

Thanks, hankster, and to all of you who are trying to make this a productive research thread even if and when it ever gets shut down. One of the subversive (I think) points I'm trying to make here is that I very much wonder whether, after a certain age, consuming or not consuming substances really counts for very much. I'll be honest: I really can't STAND (read: hate) people with that ultimately puritanical point of view requiring EVERYONE to do certain things simply out of political correctness. The HELL WITH THEM.

I would have to guess (no, I don't KNOW) that after a certain age a lot of things just don't matter any more. For example, suppose someone wanted to take up smoking at the age of 85, Or start eating bacon and eggs at the age of 79. I'll tell you very frankly that I absolutely do NOT believe I'd get a straight answer on these things from health care professionals or other interested parties. No. All you would get is the party line. Remember the party line? That was the way Communists operated in the olden days when I was a lad. If Moscow said "allemand-RIGHT" then everyone went "allemand-RIGHT." (Sorry for those of you who've never square-danced.)

Many people approach the subject of life-lengthening not with a realistic but with a religious state of mind. Me, I need realistic and nothing else, though I'm a believer. If something really doesn't matter any more once you've reached a certain age, then I say the hell with it. Including eating vegetables or fruit out of cans (BPA!), consuming the black parts of over-cooked foods (marshmallows toasted on a bonfire), forgetting absolutely any entirely organic foods, and all the other fads and fallacies of today's foodaholics.

One always has to exercise. That's certain and without the slightest doubt. One also does have to consume sufficient calories every day to support life. Further, salt consumption has to be limited. Also, it's better to stay in touch with people rather than wither on the vine sitting on the sofa. Other than that? Leaving ideology and fashionable stupidity behind? I very much wonder.

Take care!