Slapping, spanking -all the time an Abuse?

Is hitting a child - after you have tried anything else you could think of and you even WARNED that child that it might happen - with an open hand and not strong, not intended to harm (no visible marks and no physical pain after that moment), a slap that is meant to stop the child doing something wrong (it might be a self injury, angry crises for hours...) an ABUSE when comes from a PARENT?

I dont think so however you will get an awful lot of people on here disagree with me ! I will even get verbally abused for saying this lmao.....

It also depends on age of the child. If the child is younger than ten then I would smack if the situation called for it.

If the child had had clear warnings but still persisted in being out of control then I believe it is sometimes needed, not often but sometimes.

Hitting or slapping would be seen as an act of aggression if it is between children or adults. Is it not agression because you are an adult or in charge of the situation? When children are hit, slapped or spanked, they learn that these behaviors are acceptable -- and that this is the way to control situations. Is that what you want to teach the child?
Will the hitting or spanking solve the situation or just give it a temporary fix and way for the adult to relieve their frustration?
~lila

I greatly appreciated that you answer to me. I think no evolution is possible without truth and adjusting...

You are right about the age of the child.
You said something about "ten" - what's that age limit for?

I think no child under 7, should be slap, spank. even you do not know what extreme situation could make that still necessarily.
At around 8-9 years my daughter started to punish herself slapping and smacking (? I do not know well the difference) herself. I tried to stop her even showing her that I could do the same to myself and this is not a way to show that you acknowledge a mistake. I end up slapping her in the above way and that really stopped her. But before I told her that I was there to protect her and no one could slap my child, not even the one that seems to take her place ( When she was younger we used to joke about a piggy girl that visited her body sometimes; because she said when doing some normal bad children things; "It's not me" or "I didn't do it")

Till now I knew about slap and snap that are hits with an open palm and they have to be clearly identified so because a "hit" is usually stronger, using a fist and it's hard to believe that it will not harm.

Therefore I think also the intention - supported by the way you did it (by slap or fist or with an object ... and even if you did it when very angry and possible not to control yourself or calm outside no matter how inside)

Now I see that there could be three things that could not maybe physically harm a child and I suppose all the medical or heath professionals know. Do they ? are people who are in charge with children obliged to know the difference between different type of physical abuses ? But how else could they appreciate, and even report an abuse?! But I think I will open a separate thread for that.

slap, spank and smack.

The second very good point you raised it's about frequency - I would really want to see a poll on this problem of abuse but I need some more info and ideas like yours. What frequency do you think it could become dangerous? 2/years? 5 in the entire life of a child?

Personally, I see all forms of hitting one's child as being negative. Part of parenting is teaching your children appropriate ways of acting and managing their behavior. People like to hit because it gets the child's attention and stops the immediate behavior, which is easier for the parent. Sometimes a child's behavior really can be infuriating and leave the parent to feel there's no other options.

However, hitting controls through fear. It doesn't teach a child appropriate alternative behavior, and it leads children to have more fear of their parents. I remember being spanked after 'warnings' and the like. On the few occasions which there was a 'message' afterward, I didn't really listen and hear it. I was just willing to say whatever I needed to in order to avoid more pain. Later, when I was a teenager, I didn't tell my mother things it really would have benefited me to share, because I didn't have that trust in her. I had learned to get around authority and be sneaky about something they'd consider bad, because I was afraid. Even though it wasn't obvious from her perspective, our relationship wasn't the same.

I think it's also important to realize you're building your child's expectations and teaching them how to interact with the world. When you spank, you're teaching your child that if they're bad enough, it's okay to be hurt. This can lead to enabling of abusive relationships later in life. You're also teaching that if you love someone enough, it's okay to hurt them. I really think parenting should be about discipline rather than punishment, but that takes a lot more time and mental energy - particularly in the hard cases. This can be even more difficult for a parent with a mental illness, but I still think it's important for the child's well being.

Now, I can't say for sure that there's never been a child who could benefit more than they suffered from being hit. I surely know that I was thought of as one and definitely wasn't one though. If one feels it's necessary to hit in order to get their point across, I'd suggest they first take a parenting class and learn alternatives. In my household, other forms of discipline were lax and it was made up for by brute force when my parents couldn't stand our behavior anymore. They couldn't see it, but looking back on the events, I can. If your child really requires that level of physical force to discipline, it might even be beneficial to get a professional in the household to assess it and see why that might be. We're all just human, and it's easy to miss other choices we might have along the way, which could curb behavior. Sometimes it takes only an ounce of prevention to take the place of a pound of cure.

Thank for you answer; you seem to have more knowledge and experience of life, maybe more children and better raised than average. I understand that you took even classes of parenting, Therefore you must know something more!

Are in your place, society self injuries, drugs. alcohol, running on the streets, sex and pregnancy less harming for children (I didn't say teenagers!) than a slap in the conditions that I presented? They might be seen as less dangerous because they became pretty common while Slapping once must be an ABUSE that I see that has incredible effects.

Between letting a child in danger; to injure himself or put himself in danger I prefered to risk to be label as an ABUSER and to take the measure that would assure less harm in the life of that children.

I am in doubt now about all these scientific discoveries about children's brain and the facts that they are not capable to comprehend well what you are trying to explain them because they lack the understanding of consequences. I understand that you succeeded to perfectly apply the management theory and explain the benefit of alternative behaviour at the right moment in your children life.

I wonder who is more Catholic than Pope, or abuse even the nice idea... to protect the children!

We are all just human indeed and you might be right, having depression, anxiety or PTSD PDSD) we are indeed mentally ill and probably the state get better results raising the children (who do not have the chance to have the "proper" parent) in shelters; were professionals will instill better values in their heads without allowing any harm in their life.

We do war for war, raise children just for calling us parents, and invoke Abuse for...abuse.

My classes weren't exactly for parenting, although large portions of certain classes were definitely geared that way. I was easily able to glean that my instructors disapproved of hitting though, and I consider it an iffy method at best. I never hear people ask 'are the severe problems that I've heard come from being consistent with my child true,' or 'will using a time out damage my child?' I do hear that about hitting though, so as far as I'm concerned, it would probably be less risky to use methods which aren't quite so questionable. Some people seem damaged by it. Some don't. But why take the risk if there's an alternative? I don't worry so much about being labeled an abuser as I do the effect spanking may have on a child. I'm also not questioning intentions so much as I am the outcome.

As for your other point, I do of course think that spanking a child is the lesser of two evils between it and the scenarios you presented. However, I don't see how lack of spanking automatically leads to those conditions? Many children who aren't spanked are disciplined in other manners and end up well off. Just so you know, I have also seen the problems which come from being overly liberal with one's children, and I know that oftentimes this lack of discipline fringes on neglect. There is a middle ground, and there are effective methods of discipline which don't involve hitting. They don't always come easy or naturally, but if the only alternative a parent feels they have involves hitting, I do think it would be beneficial to take the time to learn them. Just my opinion though.

Also, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted anything you wrote. It's pretty late here and I sometimes have trouble in that area.

Children have to know that there is an ultimate punishment, you dont have to use it but they have to know its there.

What do you suggest ?

Lila, you raised two (very good) points:

1. Slapping, as any hit,It could be and generally is a gesture of aggression!

(Could you say that - after I tried to do the same like my daughter and hitting myself trying to make her understand that was not a way to behave, other ways were tried before but at that age she didn't comprehend talking to her as we talk now here - slapping my daughter, I repeat once and trying not to harm her, it was a gesture of aggression?)

2. Physical ABUSE, from the moment it could be understood as aggression, it's the same; no matter it happens between adults, adults and children and even only children. You made me think about this:

ABUSE should be punished no matter who are the ones involved but we should took in consideration as aggravating circumstance the fact that one is more vulnerable; age, ill, position of authority (or in charge of the situation sounds the same for me) etc.

I am not perfect and maybe I do not find all the time the perfect behaviour that I want to teach them. I could be malicious and ask you in reply about so many bad things that parents could show to children and could be more dangerous than a slap (drugs, alcohol, things in sex field, cheating, stealing, harming others for getting their way, etc) things that a child learn that are acceptable even only a part of them were used as a way to control the child directly or implicit. But that's not the point. Maybe others are doing better and all the time find the best solution.

On the other hand I think children have to know what exists as possibility in a way that's not harmful. (I think Tishie noticed that) Do not forget that we have learned not only through positive example! I know that I learned through negative examples and things that I didn't like when happened to me. Later in life I rejected to repeat them in my own life.

Are you capable to solve all the time the things on long term and stay away from "temporary fix"? A lot of people are saying that medicine for children with ADHD are given with a very bad effect in time for children while adults assured their escape from frustrations. I am definitely against relieving frustrations on others and sometimes a one slap once in a while could be such thing! But I don't think that it could be done calm - when frustrated, people are ANGRY! - and without harming (without marks or later pain)

For my kids, it depends on the child. For my oldest, it would be temporary grounding from the phone. For my middle, it would be temporary grounding from the computer. For my youngest, it would be a time out in his room. They each have their own personalities, so each of their "ultimate" punishments would be different.

My parenting philosophy is to help my kids learn to be independent thinkers, responsible for their own behavior, so I try not to use a lot of rewards/punishments. We have a lot of conversations about what is right/wrong and why. I want my kids to be free to ask questions.

I honestly can't think of a situation where I would feel that I needed to hit my child.

May I ask how old your children are ?

Tree your point about kids being independent thinkers is so apt. Each child has something that is the ultimate punishment. For my son its losing his ability to play with his friend next door. When his behavior is getting bad, usually only a reminder of the fact that he couldn't play the next day is enough to get him to stop and take a look at his actions.

I was physically abused by my mother and 2 different step dads. They would all hit when they were angry about something, sometimes it wasn't even really anything that I did. I learned NO lessons from it, other than to fear them all (which I still do) and to keep most everything (whether good or bad) secret because of fear that I would be misunderstood and hurt more.

Sometimes I get frustrated and the immediate fix I use is to put my son in his room and I spend time talking with my husband about how I should deal with things. Then I will bring my son back out and we will all talk about the situation. My son has his chance to explain his behavior, but it doesn't excuse something that he did that he knows is/was wrong. From there we usually figure out a consequence. Sometimes talking about the behavior is enough of a "punishment" because my son is very perfectionistic and is very hard on himself when he's done something that he feels will "get him in trouble". Sometimes we take away play time with the neighbor; sometimes we take away something fun we've previously planned to do. Parenting isn't easy. I feel as though I am failing at it all of the time. But I do put in the effort. I do think it's a band-aid that only helps the parent to spank a child.

Like Tree said, we spend a lot of time talking about things here. We talk about inappropriate behavior we may have observed at school or in friends, or even on tv, and we talk about what the appropriate thing might have been instead. We talk about alternatives to bad behaviors. I think the effort put into talking and sharing about all these things has far better long term consequences than if I were to just smack him when he was "bad". I believe talking about all of this helps him to develop critical thinking skills that help him to personally correct his own behavior to more appropriate expressions. I have seen him calm the neighborhood kids down so they could "talk about it" instead of all fussing and fighting about whatever the problem is.

I could go on and on, but I will say that some people don't feel hitting is abuse, but I do feel it is. Anything you do that instills fear can be construed as abuse. Having my son fear me does nothing to help him cope with his life and grow as a person. I think that the "ultimate" consequence is fluid relative to the age of my son and his likes and dislikes at the moment.

One more thing and I will shut up. I have always rewarded (usually verbally) positive behaviors in my son. If he holds the door open for a stranger, I always tell him that was kind. If he chooses to talk to his friend about a problem instead of stomping away, I point out what a good decision that is. I have done this since he was teeny tiny and I expect I'll do it his whole life. A lot can be said for positive reinforcement.

By the way, my son is 9.

My children too are independent thinkers, and yes we speak about things ! Just because I would smack does not make that redundant lol.

Also positive reinforcment about things and good communication etc.

My children are five nine ten twelve twenty and twentyone. They are all growing up (with the exception of one who have lots of mental health issues) well adjusted children with excellent school reports.

My boys are 13, 10, 7

I think kids will survive a quick swat on the hand or rear through clothes with an open hand. Quite frankly, I wanted to scare my son when he reached up to the hot stove burner and a quick swat on the hand did the trick. Not abusive that way.

My husband and I aren't much for spankings though. We found our kids pretty responsive to discussion.

Only once have i ever lost my cool and "spanked" Jeremy.


He promptly turned around and swatted me in return .

So obviously for us it is not something that works. Teehee. As all it did was show him how to hit me back. so its not something i do at this point in time.

Now. I DO beleive that there are certain dangerous situations where a VERY loud yell/swat on the bum/swat on the hand should be used IF NECESSARY. None of these should be done in such a way that there is pain of any significant kind. Yes, a swat WILL often hurt for a second or two, but it shouldn't hurt excessively and it should not be a staple of discipline. It will not and cannot take the place of positive reinforcement, time outs, discussions, and other non-aggressive forms of parenting.

However - if I was walking with Jeremy beside a busy road, and he, after being told not to go near the road, because "you could get hurt and that would make mommy very sad and would make You cry Jeremy" began to run directly into traffic and or the road - then I would grab him, and I would without a doubt become VERY LOUD and angry, and perhaps give a whack on the bum. I would ALWAYS follow this up with an age appropriate explanation when the time was right. For very young children though, between the ages of (depending on the child) maybe 1 and a half through 3, sometimes a good scare is the best way to teach them to stay away from something dangerous UNTIL they are old enough to rationally understand why they cant do that. A one year old is not going to understand that you cant run away from mommy in the mall because a stranger might kidnap them, or they might get lost, or anything else. However, they WILL understand when it makes mommy very loud and startling!

I do think that there is a HUGE difference between an emergency swat on the bum or hand, and flat out abuse.To me, if its prolonged, lengthy, extremely painful, done in multiples such as multiple spanks in a row, done with an object other than your own hand, done by ANYONE OTHER THAN MOM OR DAD, or done too often - its either abuse or bordering on abuse. Frankly if you have to hit your child several times a day over the same behavior, firstly you are probably seeing a phase, and secondly, its obviously NOT WORKING.

I think that for me, I probably won't spank unless its an emergency and I need to get a point across RIGHT NOW THIS SECOND. And even then, id try yelling loudly and being upset first, if the situation allowed.

Hee, hee!

If you slap/spank in anger then I see that as abuse. Just like any other form of punishment.

I am 63. i never spanked or hit my 2 children. My daughter has four kids, and she never hits them. They are fabulous well-behaved children. She uses time-outs. It works. I don't believe in EVER hitting a child. I grew up physically and verbally abused and know first-hand what hitting a child does.....causes anger, resentment, etc, etc.......I believe in common sense...warning the child that if he/she does something, there will be a consequence and follow-through with a time out. In time, with repetition, they learn that. With a young child, the time-out should be very short...attention span, etc....My son was an incredible challenge.....ADHD and an attitude, but he found his way. I think as long as a child knows they are loved, there are no mistakes in parenting....

I was brought up with the odd smack on the top of my leg. Not many maybe two or three I was a fairly good kid. I do not class it as abuse my parents where/are loving caring parents so I don't think you can make a blanket statement about all smacks being abusive. I was upset with getting a smack but not resentful or angry.

I really do feel its how it is dealt with, if in anger then yes it is wrong.