Vent

OK, so my son is in a new school and they are doing great with him. Finally I got everyone on board with how smart and capable he is. He loves school and wakes me up early (as if 6am wasn't early enough) ready to go...

However... since school started and he can't manipulate anyone there he is feeling out of control. For the first time in all of his 12 years the grown ups are being grown ups and are in control. His anxiety is off the charts and 3 meds haven't touched it.

So... Now the fun part... He is pooping and peeing in his room. I put him in time out in my room where I could see him and his response was to poop, pee and make himself vomit all over the floor (thank god for puppy pads!). It happened all last weekend and the beginning of last week so I came up with a reward and sticker chart for "poop free days" and clearly identified the consequences for pooping or peeing in his room. We went all through the school week without a problem.

Well, since he got home Friday we have had one pee incident and three poop incidents.

Talked to his Dr who agrees that it is a behavior not a medical issue.
No one has had access to him to do any SA (I know this can be one of the signs).

I am still calm, cool and collect with him but about at my wits end! He is 12 and in diapers again because he will poop/pee himself in public... Really didn't think I would be dealing with diapers and wipes with a 12yr old. OK, at least not this one.

Time outs are now served in the bathroom for easy clean-up. He has to carry his own diaper bag when we go out. And he cleans everything himself.

ugh... He is successfully completing 6th grade academics and wearing diapers. WTF??????

((Omers))

Wow, I'm sorry you're going through this. I have an adult son. He's stubborn, but not manipulative. I think if he would have done something like that in his room, I probably would have turned around and closed the door without saying a word. I'd be tempted to let him sleep in his own smelly room until he decides to clean it up. I'd allow him to deal with the ridicule at school for smelling like urine/poop or explain to his peers (or maybe a girl he might like) why he needs to wear a diaper.

Again, I'm sorry he's giving you such a hard time. You have every right to vent.

remember that old idea of housebreaking a puppy by rubbing it's nose in the offense ? well , it doesn't work.
alarm and concern, while cleaning are the recommended actions. of course, it might offend some to compare puppies and kids, but they have a lot in common. Stability, Consistancy, and Affection, are the key requisites for parenting. best wishes, Omer,, Gus

yes, it looks like I may be doing a lot of venting for a while to keep me from making poor parenting decisions while pissed off!

I don't want this to sound offensive but does your son have any developmental disorders? Does he poop and/or pee in public when you want him to do/not do something, or is it just a random incident designed to make your life difficult? I suppose it could be manipulative behaviour but it would be the oddest I've ever heard because I struggle to figure out what the reward is that he gets from the manipulation. After all, he has to wear diapers in school, which I'd imagine would be rather humiliating for him.

If I were in your position, I would do what Gus1234U posted of being consistent, affectionate and stable. While I would certainly be tempted to do what KathyM posted, there is the risk he'll go to school smelling like poop and pee, which unfortunately would come around to bite you in the butt because many parents would view it as abuse, neglect and suggesting the possibility of failing to provide necessities of life. While that is obviously false, parents who don't know of the situation would be inclined to think that.

However, I have to compliment you on keeping a rational, calm mind in this situation, such as implementing the poop-free days chart. I hope all goes well.

Yes, My son has autism. However he is VERY high functioning and has no history of doing this before.
One example is from yesterday. We meet up with a couple of friends of mine about every other weekend for lunch. So we went to lunch and my son knows this place has ice cream. My son asked for ice cream and I explained that he was grounded for peeing in his room that morning so no ice cream. Trying to be respectful none of us had ice cream even though this places ice cream is better than their food. Typically my son would ask again to make sure I understood his request, be told no and then he would sit there with a scowl on his face. This time he started pushing for all he was worth trying to get something out... apparently he was empty but he gave it a good try.
Now, he IS spoiled but he is not a spoiled brat. I can't think of any toy he has ever asked for that he didn't get. He doesn't ask for much but when he does he has his money from his chores, he can do extra chores to earn it faster or if he is trying to save for it but can't get there he will get it for his birthday or Christmas. No means no in our house and always has. Negotiating after a no will get you sent to your room.

In contrast... Friday morning his alarm went off at 6am for school. He got up, got dressed in his uniform and brushed his teeth. He then got the dog up, put her outside and got her breakfast. He made his lunch without trying to sneak in any junk. He got a granola bar and yogurt for breakfast and a glass of juice. When he was done he cleaned up, let the dog in, packed up his book bag and went to the bus stop. All without a single word from mom who hadn't had enough caffeine yet. He is a 6th grader working on grade level, his room is typically spotless as is his bathroom and he does his own laundry.

Last night was filled with urksome behaviors... nothing dramatic but a bunch of those little things that push your buttons!

He is still working on getting enough "poop free" days to get his video game back but other than that we started the day with a clean slate. I asked if he wanted to be a responsible 12yr old and wear boxers or if he wanted a diaper. He picked boxers so we will see how it goes......

OK, we've made it all week "poop free" keep your fingers crossed please... It's a long weekend!

Children are so challenging to raise.

Have you identified what your son is getting out of these behaviors? How is he treated differently besides time out? Has anyone suggested he may have oppositional defiant disorder?

Because my son carries a diagnosis of autism (which may or may not be accurate... long story) he can not have a co-morbid Dx of oppositional defiant, reactive attachment or any of the personality disorders according to DSM. My Pdoc has seen him a few times when I have had to bring him with me to our appointments. Her response was f* DSM he's got something else going on there. I don't think it is ODD because he is so compliant much of the time. As Pdoc and I talked we kinda think it is either reactive attachment disorder or psychopathology... most likely reactive attachment though. He gets a huge high off of an adult having an intense emotional reaction. He has learned very well how to create this when he wants a "fix". Right now he is repetitively yelling something that sounds like "f* you" because adults have reacted (rather than responding) to the behavior and he loves the attention. While I do swear despite trying to watch it "f* you" is not anything he has heard at home. I think he was just playing with letter sounds and discovered that "f* you" gets a reaction. So... I have not had any strong emotional reactions to the poop and hopefully the behavior has passed.
Unfortunately Pdoc does not take his insurance and I can't afford another intake with her right now. I am expecting a tax return (another LONG story) that may allow me to bring him in to see her. He does have a T but she specializes in autism and is SO hung up on what his paperwork says and what she saw the first time she met him that she can't get past just autism. She is wonderful and I adore her but he is just a little outside her "box" in this area.

So much for crossed fingers

This may be his version of 'tantrum/aggression'.Repetitiveness seems to be an issue in autism as well.He may have unwittingly formed a repetitive behavior associated with the response he received initially?Perhaps its reaction,was fulfilling in that it seemed to accomplish some control of affect towards you and became a method of rebellion.Because repetition,compulsive tendencies,ritualistic behavior,sensation seeking,GI issues,and a lack of ability to empathize are all associated with his disorder any of them seem like factors,and could be contributory.There is also the thought that he may feel a level of 'control' in being able to manipulate a response with this behavior/function.This is all not uncommon,if you google autism and defecation behavior you will discover that the behavior and the dx are associated enough to pull up a lot of different posts.Tbh I know nothing personally about the dx,but upon looking it up,that was what I saw in reference to the behavior and disorder.Your handling of it is very loving and impressive.It seems to go w/o saying that you are a very loving,wise,and balanced mother,and are doing an excellent job as such.He is very blessed to have such a mother.~hugs~ W

Did he ever have another time like this, even back when he was a toddler, where "control" was taken from him so completely (as adults not responding the way he had become use to, now, at this new school)?

When I was a toddler, my mother went into the hospital and I became untoilet trained :-) and my father gave me enemas, etc. but I'd wait until I was back in panties and then go, LOL. When I was in second grade, my father went to sea for 8 months, went away and I became untoilet trained again. Of course, in the 1950's no one thought/knew as much about child psychology or put two and two together in my case; my mother went away for several months and then died and here my father had gone away. . . Kicking the major supports out from under me did not make me feel secure!

As much as you like his therapist, it is would seem that the responsible thing to do would be for her to educate herself so she can help.

It's sounds like you're making some headway with the reward system.

Sorry I missed the most recent replies... accidentally turned notification off.

Perna, I totally agree

wingin'it, well, one she sees him for free so I try not to "look a gift horse in the mouth" but also according to how she was trained he can't have autism and these other challenges.

You cannot have autism and an attachment disorder/ personality disorder.... lots of stuff... the "rules" say you can't put those labels together. Someone however forgot to mention the rules to him.