DD keeps using this threat

My oldest DD has anger issues & defiant disorder. She sees a T but we don't see very much improvement. Some, but like all therapy, it's slow going.
She has these explosive temper tantrums, wild screaming & sometimes breaks things. Yday she had one & broke her bedroom door & part of our backdoor.
When she gets like this we call it the red zone. There's no reasoning w/her, she doesn't hear us. Yday was so bad I took my 2 younger kids out of the house for a walk & let her calm down.
We're working on her anger issues.

My biggest problem is when she gets like this she says, "well I'm just going to kill myself! I'm going to commit suicide."

She's 11yo. She is Not suicidal. But I feel she uses this as a threat to make us cave. Then she rants about how stupid she is & hates herself.
This makes me very angry & yet very sad.

I have my own MH issues & my kids know nothing about them. I've had SI since I was 15yo & still deal w/this issue VERY often myself.

Part of me wants to scream @ her & say she has no idea what she's saying. She's repeating what she might've heard on social media & if she'd like a 3 day stay in an institution I'm sure we can arrange it! But I never say that.
Another part of me wants to break down & hold her & tell her how much she's loved & what a horrible thing it would be to lose her. But I don't say that either.

I walk away. I try not to take either side & stay neutral till the tantrum is over.
She's never been affectionate & to try & kiss or hug her is very hard. She's always been like that. But we love her very much, are very supportive of her & tell her a lot.
But what she says during these rages is very hurtful & cuts me to the quick. It's very hard to be thick skinned & I don't want her to see that it makes me crumble into my own issues.

We've also noticed that this threat of not wanting to live anymore has been heard by my younger children & now they've started to use it.
My youngest who's 6yo just said to me last wk when he was angry "I don't wanto live anymore. I just wanto die!"

I've told her T about this but haven't heard much back from her & my main concern is how do I handle this myself with my own issues. How do I not spiral into an even deeper depression over what my kids say. I know kids sometimes say things they don't mean like I hate you etc but these words really hurt me a lot more than they hurt my husband. He just thinks it's a phase & part of growing up. Doesn't every kid hate their parents at one point?
But I'm a very fragile parent. Not ideal.

Thanks for any help

Hello Patagonia: I'm so sorry you are having such a difficult time with your daughter. I'm afraid this is well beyond the scope of the Skeezyks' experience. (Although I can relate to what your daughter is experiencing... I go to a similar place myself periodically.) However, I just wanted to let you know that I read your post & I wish you every success with your efforts.

My son is almost 11 and when frustrated will yell that he wants to kill himself. We have an children's mental health team that we can call on. He knows that we get upset hearing him say he wants to be dead and it gives him "power" over us as we get upset. We were advised to ignore it and go on as if he said nothing.

(((Hugs)))

Kids say cruel things when they are hurting. Adults say cruel things when they are hurting. When your child is hurting, the pain is overwhelming. I hope you have support through this.

***Trigger warning****

You know your child more than I, but what you've explained your child as saying and doing, are huge red flags. Assuming she is not actually suicidal might not be wise. You know more about it, but as an outsider, im concerned about several things you've said. I hope you have an intelligent professional you are working with. Not just your daughters T, but someone all your own.

Big hugs coming your way.

I do hear you about the social media aspect. It's as though this age range/generation is exposed to [trigger]"i hate myself/i should end it/i want to die"[/end trigger]

At what point is there validity to the statement? I myself have scars from youth, keep my pdocs #on my fridge and am tempted to find a hotline flyer for the fridge.

I don't have advice/answers. You aren't alone in this

Eta: social media stopped being what it used to be as far as reference goes. Youtube plays a role..among other new sites. Kix? Snapchat, etc...

((((Patagonia))))

What you're going through with DD is a major challenge...for everyone. Adding in your MH really makes things a lot more tough.

It does concern me that your DD is only 11 and is already throwing out severe self-harm threats to you. Has her T recommended ways to prevent these outbursts from occurring?

I have a 13-yr old DD who has violent outbursts with me, from time to time. I fear the safety of my 11-yr old DD, as well as my own, when the 13-yr old starts. It's 0 to 60 within a minute! Specifically, she screams and throws everything that she can grab a hold of at me. It's scary, really. I have to act cool and supportive, but still stand strong on what started the incident to begin with. A pretty big challenge, especially since she is now bigger than myself and throws things with all of her might at me (within a couple of feet). Meanwhile, my younger daughter cries (in fear) and that's when the 13-yr old tries to aim her anger at the 11-yr old. At that point, I gain more emotional strength, and instantly become more firm to protect her.

The whole situation really sucks. No doubt about it! But, me staying there helps the 13-yr old. It isn't fun or easy, but I know that things would really escalate if we left. I can't allow myself to do that. So, I just try to get her to talk to me about what brought these feelings up. Over and over again until she calms down and talks.

I have a few mental health issues myself, and I often blame myself for everything. It's hard not to. But, who's to blame doesn't matter, right? We just have to try to stay present in the moment and focus on our girls. What are they truly upset about? And how can we either prevent these from occurring in the future or at least prevent them from worsening? I think that talking with our T's about what's happening helps a lot.

I once had a friend give me a more direct number in case the violence in my home reached a level. It was my 13 year old but when he was 11 is when my friend gave me a number. What's changed is the intervention classes at his school care of a school district that has been undergoing a major overhaul addressing the behavioral statistics.
I have read books and articles and have adapted some tools. When I was with my previous insurance and with my long term T, his suggestion was asking my son what he likes about himself.

When I was about 13/14-15, I was doing what your daughter is doing. Which stopped soon after my attempt. I moved in with my mom within 6 months of that, too. Right to the same district my children happen to be in. I wasn't quite angry like my son has been, but I certainly had pain of an emotional kind.

I was experiencing that new term CEN which is childhood emotional neglect.

If her needs, that she doesn't even know she has yet, are unmet--and it might not be from you at all, then this could be the soothing she's discovered. Keep ontop of it with her T and Dr and try as hard as it is, to see her as her own person separate from that genetic fear/guilt that you have.

They have a saying around here, it's not the children with the parents that continue to show up and try, it's the ones with the uninvolved parents that you've got to worry about and I'm personally extending that to literature out there that discusses maternal depression in a clinical sense where children and behavior is concerned.

Certainly you know your daughter better than any of us on the forum, but it sounds a little concerning to assume that she is not actually suicidal and is only repeating things she has heard on social media. Is remaining neutral and walking away the advice you were given by either her T or your T? I can only speak from my own experience, but when I was just a little older than your daughter and I would tell my dad just how depressed/at the end of my rope I was, his response was to walk away and say nothing. He assumed I was just overreacting. For me, that was the wrong approach for him to take. I could have avoided a lot of pain and future therapy if my dad had taken me seriously and been more loving/affectionate instead of neutral. I'm 31 and I can still vividly remember my dad walking away when I would tell him just how bad I was hurting and, in the best way I knew how, screaming for help. I remember how badly it hurt that he didn't believe me and it didn't seem like he cared if I lived or died. Of course, he j ust assumed I was "repeating what I'd heard" and "being dramatic." He thought I was too young to understand what I was saying. But I wasnt. Every kid is different, but it seems very risky to assume that your daughter doesn't mean it.

Thank you everyone for your opinions. They are much appreciated.
If you've noticed in another thread I started, this DD has now turned to explore cutting.
Another issue that hits very close to home for me. So yes, I'm taking everything very seriously & ive seen her T alone so I can look at my parenting skills & how I can help her better.

I gEt consumed in my own MH issues that no one knows about & I get lost in them. I wonder if she's trying to reach out to me for help & im not doing my job of picking up on everything.
I know I'm not.
It's very hard to switch gear out of myself & focus on her. I know that sounds very selfish & not ideal parenting.
My husband & I are trying to keep on top of this now w/her therapist.

It is hard being a parent to a child with mental health issues, it is even harder when you have your own issues to deal with. We see too much of ourselves in our kids, and we don't want them to have the pain we have gone through.

One thought that came to my mind because I know that I myself can build resentment at times, even when it's my kids, is that where you are with your depression, this difficulty in switching gears could be a bit of that? Oh sure, kick me while I'm down.

I put the at the point of mention of a husband that discounts mh ...

I struggle with feeling like I rupture my relationships with my kids, too.

Reading about attachment theory is a suggestion that I'll make as I'm seeing how it can help with that guilt feeling that plagues parents, especially parents that want to be intune with their children.

Says that we only get it right 50% of the time. But an intune, sensitive parent will work at repairing those rupture moments(feeling of not getting where we want to be), and that attempt is what makes the difference.

Your trying, reaching out is what I find much respect for. It weighs on you. It's hard, but it makes a difference. You're the right mom for her.

Hope that helps

I know deep down I do have resentment for my kids. I really hate admitting to that. I know that if I didn't have kids I'd be free to walk out of my marriage. So now I feel trapped.
But those are my issues & I try hard not to think about it when I have to be mom. That's difficult.

My husband is involved with the parenting. Last wk we had a chance to see DD therapist alone. So we could look at our parenting skills. Again were on opposite ends of the spectrum. His fall back answer is always "I don't remember anything about my childhood..." Therefore he can't understand her.
I don't get that, think it's a line of crap, Bec he works w/HS age kids. He HAS to understand them a bit.
Me on the other hand, I remember my childhood extremely well & can understand their emotional turmoil. But am I projecting??? I just try to be sympathetic so she knows I understand how she feels.

He says he feels great pressure when our kids come to him for an answer. That his job is to have all the answers. That's the way his dad was.
I'm the opposite. I wanto be able to answer a question for them, but to also be able to say "you know, I don't have an answer for you." Then maybe help them find an answer or let them figure it out on their own. They need to know that I'm fallible.

We've very different values & parenting skills & styles. His are a bit parochial. Mine are kind of laid back. But we've always been on opposite sides of everything. Now I think the kids are getting old enough to start to see that.