defiant teenager

hi everyone,
my daughter turned 13 in march long story short, since the day she could talk, she has given me a hard time. she is very stubborn, and determined to do her own thing, and very lazy except for when it comes to her own interests.

long story short, i have been going through a really bad bout of anxiety and depression thankfully i am on the mend, but yesterday her behavior just caused me to lose it on her.... she wanted to watch something on netflix while i went to the store, and i said not until you do your chores, she just sat there, than when i put the PIN PASSWORD on netflix she lost it started pulling her hair in frustration and hitting herself. she ran upstairs and slammed the door....than she heads to my washroom and takes shaving cream, i said where are you going with that she didn't respond.... i find out she went to my neighbors house in their garage to do some kind of experimen with their daughter. i was upset because of the drama she pulled at home and than she has the nerve to go over there without asking me.

i told her to get in the car that she was going to the store with me.... than i was so mad...i have never yelled at her in my life.... but all my pent up emotions just came out.... i told her what have we not done for you, she is always complaining and whining about something... she has this BIG RESENTMENT AND ANGER towards me and my husband. She thinks we favour her brother who is almost 10.... which i don't, he just listens more and is appreciative and grateful for whatever we do for him. but he does have his moments too and i don't let it slide.

so having anxiety now i imagine worse things for her, as she gets older, like she will mix in with the wrong crowd etc etc. get herself pregnant .... that's where i have to say to myself YOU CAN ONLY WORRY ABOUT TODAY but it's so hard.

I did ground her for the day and she had to stay in her room all day except for meals, was that too harsh? i never had to ground her before like that, yes i have taken her gadgets.

anyways this was more of a vent but any tips would be nice, i have suggested counselling but she won't go. so i go myself and try to read parenting sites to get more ideas on how to handle things..... i guess i lack the confidence at times as to whether i am doing the right thing.

It would be ideal if your daughter would go to therapy, or if you could go as a family. If that's not possible, I strongly suggest that you see a therapist to help work out the family issues now, before things really get out of control and damage is done.

hi laurie yes that is what intend to do. things are better today. but yes there are issues that need to be resolved.

thanks for you reply

I would push the therapy option. She's hurting herself to get her way and it's not okay. She doesn't have to talk just be there. how is she in school?

From the way you describe your daughter in your post, it sounds like you have a lot of negative feelings towards her (she's lazy, whines, complains, ungrateful, etc) and it sounds like she can feel all of this from you. You also mentioned she believes you love her brother more. That can be incredibly damaging to a child's self-esteem. Instead of just punishing her, I would recommend really sitting down and talking with her. Try to understand things from her perspective and compliment her positive qualities. If she feels loved and feels you recognize her good qualities, her self-esteem will increase and she will be more motivated to get along with you. Sometimes it's really important to listen and understand what is going on for the child. Going through life truly believing you are the unloved sibling can be one of the most painful things in the world, and showing her this isn't the case would make a huge difference in her life. While you can punish her behavior, I would really try to avoid saying negative things about her qualities (even to yourself)-- try not to call her lazy, etc. try to life her up instead of criticize her. If you improve your relationship with her, her behavior will improve, too. Most children just want proof they are loved and understood.

I think keeping firm boundaries like you have (no netflix until chores) is sensible, as long as you are doing the same with your son.

I really agree with scorpiosis, I saw something similar happen to my older sister (I was the favoured younger one because I was more 'placid'), I would really try to get inside her skin and see things from her perspective. It sounds like she is feeling a lot of negative emotions about her place in the family, I would reassure her of her special place in your hearts and nurture every tiny positive progress made.

You wrote you are recovering from anxiety and depression, she may also be reacting against that, I know my son did when I was like that - it was years before he opened up and talked about it.

thanks everyone for your replies. you are all right and even some of my close friends have observed how the younger one seems to be loved more, i am guilty of that and so is my husband.... i have tried to tell my husband to be more open and loving with her, he tries but she has built this wall up i guess because over the years she has felt unloved.

my anxiety gets to me and i think into the future, like what if she gets into boys, drugs, etc ......but i have to pull myself back to the present and say to myself this can still be fixed.

hubby is hardly around he works long hours, and i am on stress leave so i am dealing with the kids most of the time.

anyways thanks again for your replies. i had a rough day today with the anxiety, hoping tommorow is a better day.

If her dad is hardly around then she could well be reacting to that too. Does she have special time with him?

Both me & my sister had special time alone with our dad (separately), it was often doing something like swimming or a walk, going to the amusement arcades. Our dad worked a 7 day week often but he would do this on a half day or after work one evening.

You write she is ungrateful but idk many 13 yr olds would be. Know I took my parents for granted but I sure appreciate now what they did for me. We did not have the perfect relationship (who does?) but I have strong happy memories of those outings with my dad. If you know you are cared about and valued by your dad it sets a good precedent for other relationships so when those boys do come along (& they will likely) hopefully she will choose wisely!

I have a few questions

What was was the experiment, and what were the results of it?
What was her purpose in/reason for doing the experiment?
When you have chores for her to do, do you ask politely, even when it is a reminder, or do you bark orders, or something in between?
What are the things she is interested in?
What are the things she is good at?
What are the things you like about her?

hi mimsies

when i ask her to chores, i have to ask repeatdley which turns into nagging this is the same with my 10 year old son, but most of the time he listens right away. but he will have his moods too when he chooses not to. sometimes i will say ok i am setting the timer it has to be done in 10 mins.

she likes writing on her ipad, she likes v- blogs, BTS korean pop, she writes short stories and sometimes poems.

what i like about her is she is kind hearted, she does care, but has hard time expressing her feelings. she is a smart kid.

as for the father, there are issues there too, the company he works for is a family business and he works in managment, i feel they take advantage of him and he has been working long hours from monday to friday, so he has no time to really spend with me or kids, that also has made my anxiety and depression worse. i have told him in the past that you need to spend more time with her. he complained this morning too that he has time to watch HIS DRAMAS?? or do work around the house.... i said how about you have no time to spend with your family.....BUT THAT IS ANOTHER WHOLE CAN OF WORMS I AM OPENING.

i am on stress leave from work, my work enviornment was toxic, than stressors at home. this is the worst bout of anxiety i have ever had in my life

just trying to take it one day at a time... yesterday was a better day with my daughter.

My 17 yr old son and I adore each other. He has almost no contact with his father since he came of age to be allowed to choose (14). They are now on speaking terms again, which I encourage, but stay out of their relationship.

The middle school years were rough. Your description of your daughter reminds me of him during those rough years. He actually almost committed suicide during that time by jumping off a cliff. At the last second he chose not to.

These days we love spending time together.
He is still a slob.
He still has to be reminded multiple times to do a chore.
He still makes messes. And sometimes I still clean them up.
He holds down a job and is well liked by his employers.
He tells me every day how much he loves me and what a good mom I am.
He likes to hang out with me and often invites me to spend time with him and his friends.
He usually does what he is asked to do when asked politely.
Sometimes he cleans up my messes.
He tries to remember not to leave messes, but forgets, a lot.
He makes a lot of mistakes.
He does many things exactly right.
He can be really immature.
He is also very mature in other ways.
He doesn't lie to me, even when he knows I won't like what he is going to tell me.
He trusts me.

I too have severe depression and anxiety and PTSD. I also have a brain injury. I was a ball of anxiety and nerves and a LOT of anger when he was in middle school.

Then I stopped. No more yelling, or nagging, or bickering or anger. I decided what I was doing wasn't working. It was just driving us apart.

So I made myself be interested in everything he was interested in. I made myself listen to everything he had to say.

Instead of nagging and shouting I engaged him in conversation, and we talked. And talked. And talked. And talked...

I tried to hear what it was he needed. I tried to understand what was making him so unhappy. I tried to really understand why he was being so uncooperative.

I checked with him about what I thought he was saying. He would either confirm and usually elaborate farther, or he would deny and try to explain again. Sometimes it was really annoying to him when I didn't get it and he would need a good break so we could both think about it and I could try different ways of looking at what he had said, and he could try to think of another way to explain it.

I absolutely NEVER dismissed his thoughts and feelings about a topic. I may have disagreed with him, but I did it respectfully and never tried push my age and parental status as the reason he was wrong.

I worked really hard to remember how being that age felt. Tried to remember the things that hurt or annoyed or frustrated me. I tried to remember the things that scared me. I would tell him about it, and ask if any of that was where he was coming from too. I didn't use it as a way to then go into "But now that I am older, I know better..." because that is disrespectful and dismissive.

This is a big one... I quit reacting strongly when he did things or told me things that I found upsetting. If I needed time to process it I told him so and reminded him I loved him. Then when I knew I could handle it calmly and reasonably we... you guessed it... talked. I never hid from him that I disapproved or was upset about something, BUT I remained SAFE, I didn't make being honest potentially dangerous for him. He has no need to lie to me or hide things from me. He knows that I will not freak out on him. That is not the same as giving him permission to do whatever he wants. He is very compliant with my advice and instructions, usually. When he isn't it doesn't become a fight. Most often it becomes a compromise. Sometimes it becomes him doing something he knows I don't approve of, and me knowing he would do it anyway, but at least I know about it, and he isn't lying to me or hiding things from me.

One of the biggest things I had to realize was that though he is my child and always will be, he is also his own person. I have to respect that. There is no way I can force him to do anything. And I also realized I don't WANT to try to force him to do anything. I don't believe in forcing anyone to do anything. That is not an ok way to treat fellow human beings. I can ask him to do what I want, and acknowledge when it is in conflict with what he wants, and ask him to do it anyway. Usually, he does. When he doesn't, I don't yell, or scream or get upset. I know he loves me and respects me.

I didn't read parenting books, but read MANY books and articles about communicating effectively with other people. I read books about human development and the brain and what is normal for kids his age. That doesn't mean that just because something is normal, means it is ok. But it made a difference in how I handled it. Honestly... all his behaviors, troublesome or otherwise were completely normal.

I realized it made no sense to get angry at him for being and acting his age. So... we talked even MORE. About why some things have to be done the way they are done, even about why sometimes he should give in just because he loves and respects me, and vice versa.

When I did discipline him... rarely... it was after a discussion and an agreement about why the discipline was needed and what was a fair discipline. He didn't ever take advantage of that. He appreciated that I valued his input.

And, just in case people are circling ready to attack. He is not spoiled or disrespectful, or entitled. He works hard. He got his GED a year earlier than he would have graduated and started college a year early, while still working. He bought his own car. He often insists on being allowed to pay for pizza or dinner out. He takes care of me when I am sick, even when I try to tell him not to. He helps his disabled grandma just because he loves and respects her. He is thoughtful and kind and generous with other people. He is a good person. He is also STILL really messy. But, no one is perfect. And I would never want him to be "perfect". He is my son, my baby. But he is also a real person, and I am glad that I know him.