What Would You Do?

Some of you may know my son is homeless. I took him to breakfast yesterday (my daughter went too) and it devolved into a terrible scene. I ended up taking my daughter home and then came back for him. He needs our help and support but holds terrible grudges against the entire family. Some have merit, some are him ruminating over and over about minor things. Deep down he is one of the most sensitive, sweetest people you could ever meet but he seems too struggle with paranoia and ruminates over the oddest things.

When I read Tisha's "Getting Over a Grudge" Thread and followed her link to the Psychology Today Website, I found the article: Are Children "Geiger Counters" of Their Parents' Emotions? devastating. It said:

Now for the study which is the subject of this post. First, however, a bit of background: Psychological problems in kids are roughly divided into externalizing behaviors and internalizing behavior. The former is basically acting out: doing poorly in school, being hyperactive, being oppositional, getting into fights, throwing tantrums and the like.

The latter refers to things like anxiety and depression. Either way, today, kids who have any of these problems are in danger of being labeled with brain disorders such as ADHD, bipolar disorder, and even "oppositional defiant disorder," which is basically bratty behavior. And of course there is "conduct disorder," which used to be called "juvenile delinquency."...

A developmental psychologist, E. Mark Cummings, summed up quite nicely the type of results that this literature routinely shows. He was quoted in a recent article in The Atlantic (How Passive Aggression Hurts Kids - The Atlantic) that described a recent study (Davies, P. T., Hentges, R. F., Coe, J. L., Martin, M. J., Sturge-Apple, M. L., & Cummings, E. M. (2016). The multiple faces of interparental conflict: Implications for cascades of children’s insecurity and externalizing problems. Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 125(5), 664-678).

“Children are like emotional geiger counters,” said E. Mark Cummings, a professor of psychology at the University of Notre Dame who has conducted extensive studies on the effects of marital discord on kids for more than 20 years. Children, he explained, are incredibly attuned to parents’ emotional communication with each other; they’re keenly aware that, for their parents, nonverbal expression is key to communicating feelings.

For many couples, holding onto a grudge—smoldering but not letting a disagreement erupt into a fighting match—may seem like the best way to deal with a conflict. But research shows this kind of discord can significantly interfere with a child’s behavior and sense of emotional security. When exposed to prolonged unresolved conflict, kids are more likely to get into fights with their peers at school and show signs of distress, anger, and hostility. They may also have trouble sleeping at night, which can undermine their academic performance. In fact, according to various studies that measured children’s emotional responses to interparental hostility, disengagement and uncooperative discord between couples has shown to increase a child’s risk of psychological problems, including depression, anxiety, social withdrawal, and aggression."

I was a devoted parent in many ways and so was their dad but the fact that I hate confrontations and never felt like I properly aired out some of the grudges I had concerning major decisions I caved on (or perhaps was just powerless to change his ways) majorly impacted my children. Since then, we have worked many things out and do love each other but parenting while enduring the feeling I had no power to deal with my husband candidly (it mostly came from low self esteem) may have caused them a lot of damage.

After seeing so much dysfunction between us all, I was really depressed yesterday. My husband was very supportive, emphasizing that catastrophizing about the past doesn't help, instead we have to figure out how to help but we can't until he lets us.

In the article Tisha cited, there was this quote, "What are you supposed to say when someone insists there is no problem when there is a huge problem overshadowing everything? Are you going to say, “That’s insane”? Of course you will." It seems to me like this is what my son does yet he will say there is nothing wrong with him, I am the crazy one (After all, I have been diagnosed bipolar and **** myself), and denies (flat out lies) when I cite specific evidence of things he has done that does not seem normal to me. My husband does not want him to come home unless he agrees to get help. He refuses to do anything on our terms. He cries to me for help and when I help him, sometimes things go well while I am with him, other times he pushes me away. Our conversation before I dropped him off was upsetting and torturous for me but I am lucky, I am not homeless and alone. It must have been much worse for him. When I go to bed I think, I am lucky, my son does not have a bed. When it is hot or cold I think, I am lucky, my son is out in the elements. My worry also may not be helping things--sometimes he seems to enjoy getting my reactions. How do I help him?

He'd choose homelessness over counseling and a roof over his head?
I've had friends bolted out of their homes as teens and somehow found ways to scrape through it and provide a life for themselves. Lives where homelessness was not desired and would not be a lifestyle choice.
I'm not sure how to suggest how to help you help him seek the path you would desire for him.
Have you reached out to NAMI for in person caregiver support?
Some personalities are part of a genetic composition. Sure, there's things as parents that could have been modeled differently or better, but sometimes MI of the child gets in the way.
Be gentle on yourself

Yes, thanks for your response.

He refuses to be controlled and wants to have a large measure of control over us.

That article did blow my mind because it talked about the ties between my mother and myself; how she’s been on a rant about her past misfortunes and how much it caught me up in it. Maybe my emotional problems are very tied to my mother.

I can see how you are also relating this to you and your son. Maybe there is truth to it.

My kids witnessed a crying, hysterical, angry mother for sadly their whole lives. In recent years when the truth was being discussed, they said they hadn’t even noticed me. They were caught up in their kid world mostly. It was certainly my youngest one that saw it the most and was the most affected.

All three (knock wood) are doing well, had good grades in school, good friends, girlfriends, not drugs. So, thankfully, what they witnessed between me and their dad, hasn’t affected them in too much a negative way at this point in their lives.

Maybe your kids were adversely influenced by it, maybe only partly. Don’t blame yourself too much. You don’t know for sure if your relationship caused your son’s problems right now.

Control is a biggie behind every dysfunction. I hear what you are saying about the control your son is trying to assert.

I hope you can get him professional help. I’m not sure what else to suggest. I’m sure I’d keep trying to keep my kid safe as long as I could, too.

Maybe you can grab him off the street and put him into a program? I’m not sure about how any of that works.

Hugs and prayers for you!

I am glad your kids are doing well and your relationship with your husband has improved. I think you are a good daughter, mom and wife. You are own of the kindest people I know.

I know I was ruminating too much this weekend about my mental illness ruining my family's lives. I was having a relapse but pulled myself together yesterday. I know I am a good wife and mother as well.

There are programs out there for my son but only if he willingly wants to go into them. I will never give up on him but it is a balancing act trying to figure out how much to help.

For those who believe in prayer--request prayers for my son. He is at a critical junction in his life (I have vowed to myself not to give specific details about anyone else but myself on here). I have been praying that he has the wisdom and strength to make the right decisions and that he executes properly. He has so much potential--I am not the only that says this--when I connect with parents and teachers who knew him in high school and his entire family, they say this as well!

Hoping all turns out for him and he can follow through on whatever decision you are hoping for him to make

Are there any young person homeless charities where you live. I had to "report" a street sleeper one freezing winters night on the way home from work. I checked the internet and found a group of young people who are experienced in going out to rough sleepers and checking that they are safe, telling them their rights etc.

I'm not in US so the name of that charity won't help you - but it seemed good to get experienced young people helping other young people: they know the stories, the evasions and the limits of safety.

I don't know how people deal with this in their own family because it's hard enough to encounter strangers using mixtures of behaviours - reaching for help, manipulation, putting themselves at risk. It's a huge challenge.

I think that’s quite a key statement about control. My daughter has done the same... not quite homeless but living in bad conditions... turned down many opportunities to help herself and I suspect it was easier to blame her circumstances on me versus make a change... hence the controlling. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I can certainly relate.

Thanks for your response. All these things are happening. The worst thing about it all is that he has told me so many lies that it is impossible to help because he a has had me helping with "pretend" things in order to get my attention. Then while I am helping him--he says torturous things then seems to enjoy when he makes me upset.

I did get him a room on Christmas day and we all ate at a Christmas Buffet together as a family. Everyone got along. I took him to see other family members earlier that day.

The next day when I checked him out of the hotel--the manipulational, lies and controlling behaviors started all over again. He had money in his pocket (gifts from family) and it was then apparent I was not going to give him anything more that day so he started saying things meant to upset me. He only calls when he wants something. Unfortunately, I usually buy him meals (order and try to eat with him once a week) and sometimes give him money. The lie he told me yesterday (don't want to give specific details), once again made it obvious that I have to stop doing this. My husband has been telling me for a long time that the help I give him is just hurting him. I get sympathetic to his needs over and over but am finally realizing that my husband is not wrong about this.

Though I am still sympathetic about the lies because I know he is in a desparate situation. It makes it hard to help him.

Wow Nowinners I needed to see this today. We are alike and different. I have 3 kids: daughter 15, daughter 18 and son 22. Husband and I are best friends and very in love and have been married for 23 years. I am an alcoholic in recovery. I was very fortunate that the throws of my alcoholism lasted a year and not years of their lives but it was a very hard year for them. (i have 6 years now) regardless I was more or less functional enough to keep it together and be a secret drinker.

For all intents and purposes our kids have very supportive, "modern" "with it" liberal parents who adore them. Last February my daughter turned 18. Never had any major issues, but all the kids seemed to get the bad mental health genes from me. She seemed to think something magical would happen when she turned 18. She turned 18 on February 17 and left home on March 23. She took the car that we owned and luckily I knew which biatch friend she was crashing with. First we went to their apartment to tow the car away and out they walk, 4 girls living the dream. We tried to get her to talk to us but she put that wall up. My husband had to stick his body in the car door to keep her from driving away. So we took the car within 4 days. I went to the apartment a few days after that and begged the mother of this girl "please send her home" and this woman said she wouldnt allow someone to live on the streets. I told her she wasnt on the streets and she wouldnt-she has a home. God only knows what this woman was told. But This woman was out of her mind and she even acknowledged that her daughter was basically wild and could not be controlled. I told her that my Becca has always had issues that border on addiction she she said "Oh yes I know that". So...WTF then?
We shut her phone off a few days after that. I would get calls from school about her being absent. Straight A student shacking up with some girl who had serious mental health issues. Doing whatever they wanted with whoever they wanted. If I told you the ages of some of the guys you wouldnt believe it. Actually you would.
Her sister was devastated. I was plotting with the school to see if they could drug test her so I could have her held somewhere.

You know what's ironic? If she lived with me and was sick for a week and I had no DR note I would get a talking to. But she can take off when she is 18 and the police couldnt do a thing. Well I am rambling here. She was drinking and using various drugs and this mother knew it and allowed it. She quit her good job. She never got to wear her brand new prom dress. A giant ***** show is what it was. In May on Mother's day she showed up on her knees on the porch. As someone in the addiction community I know these sorts of relationships do not last and she was kicked out the girls fought over someone sleeping with someone's man.

She was homeless for a day or two. Finally came home and talked about how badly she hated herself and wanted to harm herself. I had my husband take her to the psyche er. I couldnt bear it. I told her if she was serious she had to tell them these things. I told her I loved her, I adored her and would give my life for her but I didnt know if I could take anymore pain. She was 18 now and we cant speak for her. I told my husband after she got taken in the back to say goodbye until they placed her in a good hospital.

She got placed and fought tooth and nail that she had any addiction issues, even during our family sessions. LOOONNG story so I apologize. Short version is she got most of her school work done, went to Florida for rehab, came back to NJ and stayed in the rehab sponsored housing. She moved into a sober home that we helped her get into and she finally has a job but can barely afford food. I personally think she needs to stop thinking about dating but she is 18 so that thought is not far from her mind.

Since she came back into our lives its like we have to learn who she is. Who was the Becca that we knew? Who is the one we know now? Can she be trusted? We let her have the car back because if she cant get to work, she cant pay her weekly rent and none of us think she has plans of living here and we do not want her too at this point. Like it or not she developed independence even if it was bad at the start. Answering to a sober house and passing drug tests is fine, telling mom what time she will be home is a whole different game.
if I could find the right words to describe the pain of brokenness and regret that I feel for her I would. That distinct pain of knowing you f**ked up and you have no one to blame but yourself which makes it sooo much worse. I just cant describe it properly. Thank god the school was on her team because she actually earned her diploma on 12/3 but she was pushing it. To say I was broken is an understatement, and to say that I know who she is now is a lie. I dont know. I know what I want to believe. I feel like the rest of us have ptsd because of the havoc and chaos. We started seeing a family counselor right after she left and now my youngest sees her exclusively.
I am so afraid to be relaxed. I am so afraid of failure. I blame myself. I do not think i would survive that kind of pain again (and stay sober too?).
I am so sorry to have hijacked your thread. It just came bursting out and turned rather cathartic. My long winded point is that I can identify with you and your son and I hope you can with me and my daughter.

You’re in a very tough spot. You love your son and nobody wants to see their child suffer. Doing nothing probably feels as though you’re turning your back on him. That is how it has felt to me... I agree with your husband, though. Tough as it is to accept, there isn’t much we can do about the choices our adult kids make.

Don't feel like you hijacked the thread. It is so painful not seeing our children live up to the potential that we and everyone else thought they had. Both our children are still young (my son is 23) so perhaps there is still hope for them. Though we can't help them if they won't help themselves or at least admit to needing some kind of help--we WILL be ready to help them when they let us.

The fact that my husband and I are finally working together more on this is an improvement though the discussions are painful and do cause discord but we have been coming together eventually. I recognize that I can't help my son alone on this. I am just too gullible. He charms the h@@@ out of me. I get weak.

I will pray for you and your daughter. One thing I have trouble with is realizing that I have to put the onus on others. Once they are eighteen, if they don't want help--there is only so much you can do. I am just trying to take care of myself so that I am stable enough to help. Please take care of yourself too and post on this thread anytime you want. It is hard to talk about these things because our wayward (or mentally ill?) children and society blames us and we blame ourselves too! Try not to fear failure (though I admit my mind travels to the worst case scenario all of the time which is also bad for my entire family); they might need to fail in order to learn. My T says that in her experience--situations like mine do not change until people hit rock bottom letting them fail is their only hope.

I still get down because I still let my son take advantage of me--I know better but keep on letting it happen.

I have come to believe that my husband is much better at handling him than I am. I get sympathetic because he may be making the some of the choices he has made because of mental illness. It is so hard for me to know how much of his behavior is simply bad behavior verses mental illness. The weather is very cold right now and he is homeless. This is why I am currently enabling his lifestyle of playing video games all of the time and not working!

We both love him very much. I spend way too much of my time worrying about him. I have come to realize--my son is causing a lot of my stress--not my husband. If this wasn't happening with my son, would it be something else? I wonder how much of it all comes from my own problems enforcing boundaries or my own mental illness which is mostly in check right now due to all the drugs I am taking . I recognize my roll in it all and am trying to change the things I am doing wrong. I am lucky that my husband is so sympathetic about how much I struggle over this. I have changed one thing (that I was doing when my son was first kicked out nearly five years ago)--I don't hide when I am helping our son and we talk about the situation much more openly and logically.

The one good thing about the fact that he still comes to me for help is that if he does have a change of heart some day about getting a mental health diagnosis and/or when he does get a job (he gets them on and off but does not stick with them)--I will/do support him with these things.

It must be very tough to see your son in dire need for help, but he won't help himself or accept help from others. I think he tries to revenge by ruining his life as you said he holds grudges, because sometimes I feel the same way. I am sorry I have no advice, but I hope things will work out, and he decides to allow you to help him to get off the streets and fulfill his potentials

I am sorry you are struggling like this as well. I really do get the feeling that he is ruining his life to get revenge/because he holds a grudge. While it is painful for us--he is hurting himself even more and he has so much potential. It is not just me (mothers almost always see the best in their sons) who says this--it was his teachers and all the mothers of his friends who thought this. Trauma happened after he graduated HS which we (his parents) did contribute to and he has possibly inherited some of my tendencies. I am no longer sure I am bipolar but I do have a lot of anxiety, low level depression and maybe OCD--the drugs that I now take have helped with the anxiety/OCD. I would never want to force him to take a drug (never put my children on any kind of drugs when they were young)--just want him to start counseling and he may need a drug to help with his rumination but that is his choice. My POV is that people have to come to that conclusion on their own--drugs are not the only way to cope with ruminations and all the rest. I still talk to him and help him everyday. I will never give up on him.

Did you and your son, preferably with a therapist, ever talk about his feelings about your attempt?

No. His new position on the subject is that he will only go to therapy as a family (his dad, sister and I go). I told him I would go with him but doubt I could convince his father (which is true--his father's position is that we were great parents). His sister wouldn't be willing to go either.

Both he and his sister believe in the views of Mad in America - Science, Psychiatry and Social Justice. They believe that I currently need psych drugs only because my body became dependent on them because the original prescription put my brain "out of balance". So he is very leery of being treated by any mental health professional.

The thing is, the fact that he wants to "fix" all of us is a symptom of his problem. Having anxiety/wanting to control things that he cannot control rather than letting it be and just concentrating on his own life.

That’s the way things seem to be these days. Everybody else needs to be fixed rather than the individual. I can say I spent many years with the same attitude and eventually it all came to bite me really hard on the butt. Life has a way of doing that. I hope things are getting a bit better at least.