Smacking not beating - need your opinion, thks.

I came across this article and wonder what your opinion is?
Smacking is common punishment use in Asia and the crime rate over there does seems to be much less. The stories of wild intense and boldly disrespectful kids at school and at home (including juvenile crimes, teenage pregnancy is indeed a very rare thing in Asia I often wonder how is that).

Do you think there is a truth in this article below :-
Yes as a matter of fact I believe it does. Spanking, done properly, will train a child in how to function within society. We, as a society, have to have rules in order to live peacefully. If you do not teach your children to follow these rules we have chaos. Look closely at the past in this country (US) up to the sixties, spanking was a widely held practice, and the crime rates were a lot lower. But as corporal and capitol punishment became less popular the crime rates started going up. Look at the children in our schools today. The ones from two parent homes do better in most if not all catagories and the majority of them get punished as needed at home. These children are less likely to get in trouble as they reach adulthood. Granted spanking isn't the only reason for this but it is a big contributor.
Here are more opinions and answers from other WikiAnswers contributors:

• No. If it was it would have worked by now

• Yes, if applied young enough. Spankings (properly utilized) have for hundreds of years caused children to grow up with respect for their tender bottoms and a wish to avoid doing anything that would cause such pain to again be inflicted. And if that is the promised punishment for crime they are more likely to avoid it. More seriously, proper discipline from parents (even if spankings are avoided) does prevent crime. It keeps people from growing up with the attitude that they have to right to things they haven't earned and that the rules do not apply to them. But, I would say that for adults it only works if the corporal punishment is severe and public. So, not a good system.

• Yes SIR, pain retains; GOOD TO GO?

• The zest of the English-speaking peoples for physical punishment is quite amazing. The answer (above) on spanking confuses respect and fear. The only other countries that have such blind confidence in corporal punishment are some of the Islamic countries!

• It obviously does not work in the US, as parents have been spanking their children for centuries and the crime rate continues to increase.

• Why some adults believe it is acceptable to hit children (that's what spanking is) who cannot defend themselves, yet insist on having the legal right to have a person who strikes them arrested and/or sued is a mystery to me.

• I am completely against it. Not once during my childhood was i spanked or in any way physically disciplined and i have never been in trouble with the police or any other authority figure.

• Coporal punishment has been distorted over time. Just spanking if anything is good for kids. I know if my parents didn't spank me I would have ended up pretty unruly with my parents and lost respect for people in control of things. Although some families full-on beat their children this just builds up anger and hate and can cause crime. Again all this can be different for different people. But I think parents should be allowed to smack their kids. (smack not beat)

I for one do believe that spanking not beating (when done in the right way) can and will help teach our little ones what is right and what is wrong.... what is acceptable behavior and what is not, therefore, giving way for a better future when we raise our kids to be honorable & descent adults.

My boys are adults now (24 & 18) and they were both spanked when they were younger... we had preset rules to what would warrant a spanking in our house, and before my boys were given their spanking we would talk to them about why they were getting the spanking and then they were sent to their bedroom (with paddle in hand) to wait for the spanking... this time was usually for ten minutes and was a cooling off period for both the kids and the adult so the punishment at hand was given for the wrongful act performed and not out of anger or upset of the adult.

Honesty in the matter often gave way to a lesser punishment, and I personally feel this is why my boys learned the importance of honesty in life and why they now to this day realizes there is a fine line between right & wrong... and they have chosen to be on the right side majority of the time.

I feel that spanking is a personal decision and if a parent does not want to spank their child then that is fine and they should not be bullied into it... they just need to make sure that they use some form of discipline and that the discipline is constant, never giving way to emotions or upset so their child may learn and grow as they mature into adulthood.

This is a deeply personal issue and this discussion has had some polarizing effects here at PC in the past. Our children are very important to each of us and our freedoms associated with the choices we make in raising them are precious.

There are studies whose results defend each side of the arguement. We are all here typing away, products I'm sure of each philosophy, so " a spank or two" doesn't seem to cause communication lockout. Nor does sparing the rod.

For me, I can remember the look on my son's face as I held his arm streched above his head while my right hand swung in to slap his retreating behind. It was that of a terrified powerless victim.

I never did it again.

I was given a mind and a tongue. In the vast percentges of human interactions I have encountered, these two tools acting as one, have proved adequate in sending my message,,even when its the wrong one. I have found it easier to appologise for a wrongly spoken message than erasing that look my son had when I hurt him with my hand.

IMHO.

Lenny

I will only smack/spank a child while they are toddlers, I think a tap on the hand with a nice big NO when they go to touch the fire or a plug socket or wont come when you call them is not a bad thing.

Being consistant with any punishment will work its not the smack/spank its the consistantsy, I choose to smack/spank others choose to just use a raised voice and remove the child.

It also depends on the child, as with my eldest a look is enough, with my second well you could take a base ball bat to him and it would make no difference, with my third a tap on the hand was needed, with my fourth lots of taps on the hand, with my fith well she was never naughty (I mean it ! ) with my sixth you need the smack/spank on the bottem with the big NO more often as he is a defient and strong willed child.

So saying you are going to or not going to smack/spank your children is a statement you cant really make untill you have that child in front of you.

I have to agree with Lenny that this is a very personal issue. I cannot say that my way is the right way.. Although I feel it was the right way for me...I never spanked my second son. I did spank my first son once, when he set the driveway on fire when he was 6 or 7. I did not spank him because he was being bad, rather it was I was afraid he'd by accident hurt himself and set himself on fire.. Of course matches are a giant NO NO.. I felt soooooooooooo bad for spanking him. I never ever spanked him again. He turned out ok...

Now my second son, I never spanked. I did throw oranges at him once for doing something he should not have done. Am not good at throwing oranges as not one made contact. My second son was one of those kids that always gets into things and doing things he should not be doing. I call him a typical boy... Gave me many gray hairs... Even the time out did not work... So I became a shouter.. That did not really work either...I am toooooooooo much of a softie. I don't like hitting or spanking or yelling. But raising kids can be a challenge. AJ from the day he was born was a challenge. He came out screaming and never stopped.....

I did have serious problems with him when he was a teen. But I honestly think the "divorce" and lack of boundries were his problems. I did not know what boundries were until I was in my mid 40s.. So that means I did not set boundries or teach boundries to my son.. Soo the problems we had, had nothing to do with that he was never spanked. More or less were boundry issues which of course is a different topic..

What comes to mind is the "Baby Grace's" trial where her parents did awful things to her to teach her to say "yes mam and yes sir". What gets me is Baby Grace's last words to her mother were "I love you"....Such a sad story.. soo very sad... An example of anger that got out of control...and the child died..

Anyway, forwhatever reason, I just don't like spanking kids. Again, I do not know if how I feel is the right way. I just know it is the right way for me... Just my opinion........

Hubbys views.......

Ok when they are younger and in extreme circumstances its the ultimate punishment the last one when all else fails.

Try time out first taking away privaliges and star charts if none of thoughs things work ultimatly smacking normaly does.

I have never smacked any of my children nor anyone elses and never will. It is not necessary and says more about the parent losing control! Children need clear boundaries, they do not need to be smacked ever! Clear boundaries can be taught to even very young children without physically hurting them. Smacking does not make the child respect you, quite the opposite!

No I call throwing things and shouting losing control not a tap on the hand to tell a child to leave the fire alone, or to come when you are called.

There is a huge difference between spanking and beating. I believe in spanking. It has it's place. I too used it as a last resort (when they were older 4 or 5) or when "no" wasn't enough when there was something that could hurt them. It is my belief that you should never dole out any discipline in anger. Even scolding a child while you're angry could result in saying things in the heat of the moment you do not mean. When something came up that made me angry, they were sent to their room and we dealt with it when I was calm.

I did not see my children as victims when I spanked them. You ran out into the street, you know you're not supposed to do that, you get a swat on the butt. With things like that you do what I say PERIOD.

I also think that any discipline needs to start with an explanation of offense and end with a declaration that you love the child but the behavior in question was not acceptable. Children do not think in terms of consequence of the action, but they sure remember "if I do this I'm going to get spanked." So if they avoid the action just to avoid the spanking, I don't care. They're safer.

I believe the difference in our crime rate and that of Asia's is that there is an aspect of respect and honor there that many parents here do not instill in their children. Children need to respect authority and behave.

And that is your right AAAAA. I have no doubt that your children did well by you. I mean that,,you sound like a wonderfull Mother,,I have read many of your posts.

My personal dilema arises out of our ability to give children this status of accepting violence and that interesting moment in time when we decide this status is no longer applicable...10, 12, 13..??????When they are able to slap back? Then we decide all of a sudden that talking is good....

If you ran a red light and cars were scretching left and right..an officer observes this,,stops you and comes up to your drivers window and slaps you with his hand,,not with a ticket. He explains that what you did was dangerous and people could have suffered terribly. You would sue him and by our laws,,you would win. Our laws believe the compulsory ticket and its associated consequences are sufficient to change behavior.

Why is this different for young children...

Lenny

Oh I always have and always will speak with them. And you bring up a valid point about the age thing, however I've told each one of my three sons if you ever strike a woman you'd better not call me from jail because I'll be waiting outside with a baseball bat. The threat is not entirely tongue in cheek. Luckily I think the chances of my boys (or daughter for that matter) being abusive to their mates is a million to one.

As I mentioned, children do not think "if I run out in the street I will get hit by a car." To them the possibility of that does not exist in their reality. But the fact that they will get a spanked does exist. As my grandmother used to say, you cannot put an old head on young shoulders. This means you cannot expect a child to act like an adult. When they are older, hopefully they are wise enough to know that running out in the street is dangerous (plus they're bigger so driver can see them). They know not to play with fire and that outlets are for electrical plugs only. The world is a very dangerous place for a toddler/child.

And there is something to be said about more dire consequences for actions that cause others danger as well. The situation that you spoke of is taken too lightly in our society. Every day I drive my son to school, every day I see idiots slamming on their breaks at stops signs to fish tail around the corner, kids talking on their cells and not paying attention to road conditions and kids walking around them. We drove from Michigan to California two years ago and seeing what the semi drivers were doing while pulling 2 and 3 trailers outraged me. One guy had a cell in one hand and a sub in another while his 3rd trailer was going on and off the road. If it were up to me these people would never drive a lawn mower again, let alone a vehicle.

I think we take a great many things too lightly in this country. My kids not only have to follow the laws of this country, they have to answer to their father and myself. This is very effective. My brother and I were talking about this and he made the comment that there were things he wouldn't do as an adult in California thousands of miles from my parents because he was afraid that my father would find out. Chances were slim to none but still there. I have never tried an illegal drug because I was afraid of what my father would do.

My parents did not have an age expiration. When I was 17 years old my father was angry about something I had done and was able to pull my up out of a chair by my ankle and slap me on the butt. I would have never dreamed of hitting him back. I think the age a smack on the butt becomes ineffective depends upon the child. I just asked one of my 15 year olds if he'd rather have a smack on the butt or unplugged (no electronics) the next time he's punished. Can you guess which one he chose?

Yep...and that tells me that things lost dear to the heart sting far more than anything upon the butt....

Thank you AAAAA,,your thoughts are greatly appreciated by this heart,,among many others I'm sure...

Lenny

Thank you (((Lenny))). I'm very proud of all of my children and they didn't turn out this way entirely by accident. I don't think you'll every convince a spanker that it's wrong or a non-spanker that it's right.

I don't ever recall getting spanked as a child, I was the kind of kid the moment you raised your voice turned into a big weeping shame-filled puddle on the floor. I remember when we were very little though my brother was spanked once, I don't even remember what it was about... he tried to use one of his toys to cover up his butt, well guess what, the toy broke. We all laugh about it now but it's still kind of shocking that dad would hit him that hard to make an action figure fall apart.

There is more then one way to punish a child without hitting them. Sure, they would fear a spanking if they did something wrong, however other methods like a time out (which kids loathe) work just as well when done properly. There really is no excuse in my opinion.

It's ridiculous to claim that the crime rate is going up just because spanking is rarely used anymore. What about the other factors such as media getting more and more violent (which wouldn't be as much of a problem if kids weren't exposed to it, it's preventable because everything has clear ratings about what is and is not appropriate for children). Also take into consideration about the growing number of divorce rates- problems at home often increase delinquency in children. It is also my belief that kids today are disrespectful not because they were not "put into place" but because parents are not firm and consistent enough with their children.

Oh I'm not saying that spanking is the only way to teach children respect. I'm saying that too many parents just don't teach these lessons anymore. Children are a product of their parents. You can blame a multitude of social issues for your child's bad behavior, but what it all boils down to in my opinion is that too many parents plop their kids in front of the TV, computer, video games etc and no one's raising them.

Time out is an excellent tool for older children, ones that understand why they're there and can think about the consequences of their actions. (My kids had to tell my why they were in time out and what could have happened etc. I wanted to make sure they got the lesson that I was trying to teach them.) But I was unwilling to risk the health and safety of my children. If you are able to raise your kids without spanking them, fabulous! My daughter never needed a spanking, one son needed only one and that one was when his twin talked him into something.

I couldn't agree with you more

Hmm, thanks for your all replies. I am so grateful to be able to learn from all of you.

Ok I can see that not everyone here has kids otherwise they would realise that giving a one year old 'time out' really is not going to work, however a tap on the hand with a nice clear NO is very effective.

Perhaps I am meant to reason with them ? lol.

And as for shouting at children I think its so wrong ! losing your temper with them is not the right way to go about things, it should be done in a nice calm way.

Respectfully, I was Graced to have been part of four new souls. I am forever gratefull and better for it.

Not meant too Tishie..there are no instruction sheets for us when we become parents. Most we know we learned from our position as a child being parented. Most of us who were trained via corporal punishment,,,use it a tool ourselves to a greater or lesser degree. Just like smokers breed smokers...

But reasoning with a one year old? Why not? We sing to them and even read to them while in the womb. What is often lacking when instituting a brash response to behavior is patience. We expect immediate results and act accordingly. It is also a wonderfull venting mechanism for our own frustration and anger.

Today I sleep on everything. If the situation doesn't require a 911 response then I can give it some time. Time, I have found is a wonderfull solution to many problems from an ache in the foot to one in the heart...and to finding solutions to complicated issues. I'm not perfect by any means and recognise that. My first thought is often wrong,,my second one a bit better,,but given some time to think and talk to advisors,,I can get close. Never right on....but close.

Someone earlier mentioned that no one will ever convince anyone that spanking vs non spanking is the answer. Or the inverse. They were right. I'm not making an arguement here,,just expressing the experience of one single man who has made his own personal stand against violence. I abhor it. It always hurts.

With respect,

Lenny

Respect noted (I love a good discussion )

With respect to yourself also, I have no knowledge of your personal circumstances, however with the time and thought you give to your children I can only assume that you and your partner are a stay at home couple. I only wish my circumstances could match those of yours, having had four children under seven years old at home at any one time almost every situation is 911 in that there are so many in a day that if I saved them until I had a chance to consider them and or take advice I would have to spend the first hour of each day briefing the kids on the previous days events. Also with that many children around you on a trip to the park or shopping you need them to respond to instructions on the spot rather than putting the rest of the children in danger while having an even ever so brief discussion with a two year old. I would always avoid smacking where possible however a slight mis-quote says spare the rod and kill the child…….