[Fresia]

I receive SSDI and am in the process of attempting to go back to work with a start date the third week of July.

I remember there being something about reporting earnings. Anyone know how to go about doing this? Should I just stop in at local SS office to find out what I need to do? How does this affect your benefits?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

[Gus1234U]

you can find a lot of the information you need online. but it's always good to go see your SocSec Rep in person when important new things come up. i worked part time for a yr, and they requested all my paychecks and expense checks 3 times and from my employer... maybe my new Rep isn't very experienced....

[Perna]

Yes, you should call or visit your Social Security office: http://www.ssa.gov/disability/Docume...oc%20final.pdf

[Dewbot]

Make sure to keep records of EVERY phone call and make sure to get the ID of every person you speak to if all you're doing is calling. I was given a lot of incorrect information which resulted in an overpayment when I briefly went back to work. This really hurt me when I had to get back on SSDI when I was unable to work again because they withheld all of my payments until the overpayment was satisfied.

I would suggest going into the office and talking to someone in person and getting records. IF they continue to pay you, make sure to not spend a dime of that money and to report the payments to them. Get a money order in the amount of the payments they sent to you and bring it to the local SSA office to find out how to pay them back.

(1) Before commencing work, I think there is MUCH you MUST know about how working affects your benefits.
(2) Unfortunately, unless I am mistaken, there is no one at your local SSA office who knows or will tell you in detail about how your job earnings will affect your SSDI and Medicare (I'm assuming you have Medicare; I'm going to assume that you don't have Medicaid).
(3) The laws and regulations about how job earnings affect SSDI are VERY complex. If anyone says it is simply and "easy breezy," they are either lying or misinformed.
(4) First, you absolutely MUST report your earnings each month. Last time I checked, in 2011, the SSA did not have any official form for this reporting. But check the SSA web site. Maybe they do now. In any case, this is what I did. On the first work day after the end of the month, I submitted, via certified mail, a copy of pay stubs showing all the earnings EARNED during the last calender month. I'm about 90% sure they want a report of what you EARNED in the month, not what you RECEIVED. If you worked 20 hours in a month, and were working at a rate of $10 per hour, you earned $200 in that month, and so report that, even if they didn't pay you some of that until the next month.
(5) If, ever since you've never been on SSDI, you've never worked before this job about to begin, you will get a 9 month "trial work period." During those 9 months, you will continue to receive your SSDI check, regardless of what your earnings are. However, if staring in the 10th month, you earn $1,070 or more, your SSDI checks will stop. However, your Medicare will continue or can continue for a certain period of time. You'll have to contact Medicare about that, or research it on the Internet.
(6) The SSA has various "work incentive" programs. One is called "Ticket to Work." They are all pretty complicated. I can't explain those here. The best thing you can do is try to research them on web pages. Most people who claim to know about them really don't really understand them. They are VERY complicated.
(7) Here's the biggest truth about working when you have SSDI, a truth that hardly anyone will tell you, and which many people will vigorously dispute: If you are on SSDI for a psychiatric illness, working puts you on track for permanently losing SSDI and Medicare, and for losing your status as a person with a disability. Why is that? Because under the federal law, which the SSA much follow, a person has a disability if he/she is unable to do "substantial gainful activity" (called SGA for short) due to a serious medical condition. Working, even part-time, is evidence that the SSA will use to review your case to determine whether you have undergone "medical improvement" such that you are no longer "disabled" under federal law. Many, many people think that as long as your psychiatrist continues to diagnose you as Bi-Polar, Schizophrenic, etc., that you are disabled and cannot lose your SSDI. UNTRUE! The SSA is required by law to review each disability case every few years. These are called "Continuing Disability Reviews" or "Medical Reviews." But they don't just review your medical records. They ALSO review your work history! That's a fact! It is required in the law. Working is the opposite of disability, especially for those whose disability is mental illness. People who have blindness or paralysis are safe. They can't lose their SSDI by working, except in rare cases. Also people with Developmental Disabilities can't lose their federal disability benefits by working. But SSDI recipients with mental illnesses can!
(8) So, in my opinion, someone one SSDI should go back to work, if they are able to, provided that they and their psychiatrist (and their social worker if they have one) believe that he/she had recovered enough to FULLY support themselves by work, by working full-time. Part-time work on a permanent basis is not compatible with SSDI for people whose disability is mental illness. For such persons, working is a path to the end of SSDI and Medicare.
(9) There's lots more to this. I haven't been able to cover everything. I have worked three jobs since going on SSDI for a mental illness. Plus, I was employed by a community mental health agency to advise SSDI and SSI recipients on how working would affect their benefits. I received several months of in-depth training in all the SSA laws and regulations. There are lots of web sites that explain all of this, but I must warn you. Many web sites mis-explain things. Even some of the SSA pamphlets and web sites are worded in ways that, in my opinion, are misleading (though not outright incorrect or false). The SSA wants people on SSDI to go to work because they are under intense pressure from Congress to get SSDI beneficiaries "off the rolls." In other words, they want you to work because they want your benefits to end. And, that is a good thing, provided your psychological impairments are not so severe as to prevent you from fully supporting yourself by work. The workers in community mental health agencies promote working for SSDI recipients, because the whole mental health system has come to promote work as a means of "recovery" for people with mental illnesses. Well, work can be therapeutic, that's true, for some or many people. But if you really are never going to be able to fully support yourself by work alone, then working can or will end up being a catastrophe. So, in sum, I encourage you to read lots of web sites about "SSA work incentives," "Ticket to Work," "Continuing Disability Review," "Substantial Gainful Activity," "Medical Improvement," and so on. If you are not good at understanding complex laws and regulations, maybe some relative or friend of yours could help you with this research. I just want you to make an informed decision. There are, in my opinion, people out there who are intentionally or unintentionally misleading SSDI beneficiaries with a mental illness who are thinking about going to work. Exercise good judgment and common sense. Nolo Press has some books and web pages on SSA disability law that you might find helpful. Good luck.

[Fresia]

Thanks so much ThomThomas, lots to consider.

The only thing I know is that I can barely live off SSDI and I managed to get through my clinicals which were more than 40 hours a week for 6 mos; it was a struggle and had a lot help with support from T and pdoc, but was able to do it. I am hoping this translates that I can go back to some work now. It has been 14 years however. I will not know until I try and need to find out. I am in the best place that I have ever been so now is the time to try. Scared is an understatement however. I also do not want to screw up losing my current benefits unnecessarily by not following guidelines with reporting earnings, etc. However, the motto at this point is feel the fear and do it anyway, because if I don't at least try I will never know.

I so appreciate you taking the time to respond with this info; I have a lot to look into to make sure my ducks are in row. I am so very afraid of losing my benefits, of working and being able to 'cut it'; but yet afraid of not being able to work too and struggling just to get by with SSDI for the rest of my life. If that is what is meant to be, so be it but I need to take a risk at this point in hopes I may actually possibly be getting better.

Fresia, this is TomThomas who answered yesterday with 9 points. I did not mean to add to your fears. For those of us on SSDI, working CAN be a very good idea. I just think it is is always good to make fully-informed decisions. Bye the way, I forgot to mention why monthly reporting is so important for SSDI beneficiaries who begin to earn income from work. The reason is the problem of "overpayment." If for a number of months your earnings made you ineligible in for your monthly SSDI cash benefit, but you failed to report your earnings to the SSA, the SSA will come after your for the "overpayment," i.e., they will demand that you immediately repay the amounts you didn't deserve. This has caused nightmares for people, who suddenly find that they owe THOUSANDS of dollars to the SSA. The way to PREVENT this is to faithfully do monthly reporting of all income to the SSA. The funny thing is that the SSA does eventually get a report from the IRS of all earnings of every SSDI beneficiary. What I mean by "funny" is that sometimes it takes 6-12 months before the SSA gets that info from the IRS, or before they do anything about that info. That's why monthly self-reporting is so crucial.

In my opinion it really is regrettable that each individual SSDI beneficiary must educate themselves about the effects of earned income on their benefits. Understanding the laws and regulations is not easy, in my opinion.

The information on the SSA web site on "working while disabled" is pretty good, though, in my opinion, not complete, and not completely clear. The SSA pamphlet titled "Working While Disabled-How We Can Help" is a good place to start. It can be read online. A much more in depth SSA publication is called the "2014 Red Book" (SSA Publication No. 64-030).

Probably the main things for you to keep in mind is the current SGA amount: $1070 per month. The other main thing, if you have never before earned income while a SSDI beneficiary, is the 9-month long "Trial Work Period." If you have worked before while a SSDI beneficiary, but worked for fewer than 9 months in total, you may still have some number of months left in your trial work period. The SSA can tell you if you have used up your trial work period.

Good luck. I agree that you should not let yourself get bogged down by fears.

[SirIsaacNippington]

I went back to work 8 years ago, with a couple of times on temporary leave since then for hospitalizations. You have to not only remember to report all of your earnings, but also, if your earnings are above the stated amount, do NOT spend the check that month, because they WILL demand it back. (I filed a hardship plea thingy and also declared bankruptcy -- they told me I didn't have to pay it, but it would have been $10,000!

If you are within 10 years of retirement age, I would keep the SSDI and try to only earn money that is not from "work." You could participate in clinical trials, for example.

The reason I say that is, when you are of the right age, they can convert it to regular SS and then you can work.

[Fresia]

Originally Posted by SirIsaacNippington

I went back to work 8 years ago, with a couple of times on temporary leave since then for hospitalizations. You have to not only remember to report all of your earnings, but also, if your earnings are above the stated amount, do NOT spend the check that month, because they WILL demand it back. (I filed a hardship plea thingy and also declared bankruptcy -- they told me I didn't have to pay it, but it would have been $10,000!

Thanks for your feedback SirIsaacNippington!

Is this during or after the trial 9 month work period?
Did they do this during the the trial work period (TWP) of 9 months that if you earned over the stated amount that they took social security back? Or was it after the TWP of 9 months?

I read something different and this concerns me which was that though you could earn whatever amount during the 9 month TWP, only if over in a given month, does it count towards one of your 9 months, but you would still receive your SSDI during this time, free and clear. After the nine months (consecutive or not), if you are not SGA, you could continue on SSDI to reinstate/continue it, but if continuing to work and showing SGA, THEN SSDI stops after the 9 months, no more payments or having to return them if given on accident. So that is not the case?

Can anyone clarify this? I will have to go in to SS to find out more about this.

My base salary alone will be over the stated amount right off the bat and did know my trial work months will being immediately. What I did not know is that I may be responsible for having to pay SSDI back during this time, if what SirIsaac is saying, I need to be prepared not to use my SSDI during this time in that they will be asking for it back during the TWP? How is that helpful? Oh this bites; very stressful.

[SirIsaacNippington]

Sorry, left that part out. Now I remember -- over the years, I had tried to go back to work a couple of times, and only lasted a couple of months each time. Well, apparently, each of those months counted toward my 9 months, but I didn't know it. So when I went back to work and was successful, I thought I had 9 months, but they kept paying me for over a year before they told me I had to pay it all back. By the way, you get the 9 month trial period, then when they decide to cut you off, you get 3 more months, they don't cut you off right away.

[Perna]

They have a good brochure and help line one can call about the Ticket to Work program:

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10095.pdf

[PoorPrincess]

Just go to your local Social Security office today or tomorrow to get the correct information in person which you need to know before you start. Please.

[Fresia]

Thanks y'all. I am just a bit freaked out in general, chalk it up to nerves.

I tried to go today but it turns out they were only open today from 9-12. Wouldn't it be nice to have those hours? I will be there when the doors open tomorrow with my list of questions and to find out anything else I can and need to know.

[Fresia]

I went to Soc Sec today. I got a really nice person who seemed knowledgeable, took me through everything step by step of what needs to be done for the TWP and beyond should something happen even after it, what not to do to keep the benefits, and gave me everything in writing as well all the pamphlets and literature to back it up from SSA. I was there for an hour. She even provided envelopes to send in my paycheck stubs monthly for the nine months. It was really good to have gone in. Hopefully it will all work out ok; time will tell. I don't know how else to be prepared for this so am going to take things one moment at a time.

[PoorPrincess]

Excellent, Fresia.

[thickntired]

Yes, I just finished reading the PDF booklet below, and basically if you do any work you're considered "cured." I had a friend on disability who managed to work, but she did very few hours at Sonic. At that money it's really pointless. I am hoping with Obama care I could swing working off ssdi if it's a last resort. I am so high risk (bipolar=suicide). Every insurance company turned me down and I had to go with a state funded piece of crap for people no one will touch. It cost $600 a month covered catastrophic and 20% of my meds??!! The main thing about ssdi is the medicare. I think I'm able to work, but I don't know about full time. There is also no way I can go back into the field where I have all my credentials because it is very high stress. If stress is involved I'll go manic at the drop of a hat.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/redboo...edBook2014.pdf

[SirIsaacNippington]

Just remember, you only have ONE 9-month trial work period per LIFETIME. I would not go back to work unless you are sure you can work full time, and sustain it. Otherwise you will have used up your trial period and if something happens in the future and you go back on SSDI, and then go to work again, they will kick you off almost immediately.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by SirIsaacNippington

Just remember, you only have ONE 9-month trial work period per LIFETIME. I would not go back to work unless you are sure you can work full time, and sustain it. Otherwise you will have used up your trial period and if something happens in the future and you go back on SSDI, and then go to work again, they will kick you off almost immediately.

I do not believe that is entirely true. I had a quadriplegic friend who could get work/not get work depending on the economy. He had to use special tools to be able to do his job they had trained him for (engineering draftsman) but was "slow" so was often the first one laid off during a downturn. It was hard and his reapplying, etc. complicated but he always got re-instated and had periods between jobs. It is true they want you to work, just like you do, but ultimately they are realistic about it if the evidence says you cannot. It might be the case for SSI but Social Security is something one earns through work and pays for. They cannot "kick you off" anymore than banks can steal all your money by feeing you to death

[PoorPrincess]

Originally Posted by thickntired

Yes, I just finished reading the PDF booklet below, and basically if you do any work you're considered "cured."

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/redboo...edBook2014.pdf

Note that the above is misstated and untrue.

If Returning To Work while on Social Security Disability ( note: no reference to SSI ) is a viable option for you, then heed the very clear parameters on Return To Work, especially a very clear understanding of SGA. This is clearly defined in the brochure/link helpfully provided by thickandtired.

If you've any further questions, do take them directly to your local Social Security Office for your clarification and clear understanding.

[SirIsaacNippington]

Well, yes you can get reinstated, but you don't get a new trial work period. (Where you can earn any amount and still get SSDI.)

And yes, they can and do kick you off if they determine you are able to work. However, all this is my experience only. Also, I think they discriminate against those of us with mental illness as opposed to physical limitations....

Again, YMMV of course, this is just what has happened with me, an what I was told by SSA. Not that SSA workers understand this stuff either.

Originally Posted by Perna

I do not believe that is entirely true. I had a quadriplegic friend who could get work/not get work depending on the economy. He had to use special tools to be able to do his job they had trained him for (engineering draftsman) but was "slow" so was often the first one laid off during a downturn. It was hard and his reapplying, etc. complicated but he always got re-instated and had periods between jobs. It is true they want you to work, just like you do, but ultimately they are realistic about it if the evidence says you cannot. It might be the case for SSI but Social Security is something one earns through work and pays for. They cannot "kick you off" anymore than banks can steal all your money by feeing you to death

[thickntired]

Originally Posted by Fresia

I went to Soc Sec today. I got a really nice person who seemed knowledgeable, took me through everything step by step of what needs to be done for the TWP and beyond should something happen even after it, what not to do to keep the benefits, and gave me everything in writing as well all the pamphlets and literature to back it up from SSA. I was there for an hour. She even provided envelopes to send in my paycheck stubs monthly for the nine months. It was really good to have gone in. Hopefully it will all work out ok; time will tell. I don't know how else to be prepared for this so am going to take things one moment at a time.

On the trial I believe it counts as work no matter what hours or amount you make. Above the SGA just means you will not receive ssdi that month. The way I look at it is why would you want to make more than SGA and eliminate free ssdi financial support?? I also think benefits can be pulled at anytime during trial but it's not an alarm for investigation.

[Fresia]

The literature and SS rep indicated that there is only one nine month trial work (TWP) period per social security claim/approval. They do not have to be continuous months necessarily, and depend on how much you earn that are designated each calendar year at specific amount. This year is $770, so you can earn up to $769.99 and not have it count as a trial work period month. You will still receive SS during these months or in between if not continuous.

Once you meet your 9 months, you have a grace period of 2 more months to receive SS and still be earning whatever amount. After that it stops, unless a change in your status, loss of work and return of disability, and need to file for a reinstatement of benefits, up to 2 years (or 3 that I cannot recall of the top of my head) afterward. You do not get another 9 month trial work period though, ever. There are other particulars, but that is the gist of what I read in the pamphlet I have directly from SS and was told by them of it for the 9 month TWP.

I don't know about the discrimination for SGA and I say this knocking on wood, that I am going to have to take my chances on that the system works as they say it does. I need to find out if I can work as hard as this is turning out to be, 3 days in now. Perhaps it will turn out to be a mistake and I will not lose my benefits before it indicates I should; I pray not.

Meanwhile, thanks for everyone's feedback!

[thickntired]

I'm glad you found someone helpful. I have a question to anyone. If I worked below trial amount $700 something it doesn't count as part of the 9 month trial BUT will raise a red flag about my recovery from disability, correct? I am just looking from an earnings standpoint. I doubt full time is in my near future and I can't do the high paying corporate jobs on my resume. Obama made part time 30 hrs so that qualifies with benefits. Most PT jobs are under 30 hrs which is about my ssdi income. My student loan debt will be reinstated @$200+ a month. From what I can tell Obamacare runs @$300+ a month and doesn't cover anywhere near what my medicare. I can only afford catastrophic not mental health and scripts. When I start jobs it's hard to tell if I'm going to be able to handle the load and coworkers. Sometimes you don't get in the weeds until the 2nd year or when a new employee comes aboard.