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Old 08-16-2021, 10:58 PM   #1
GypsyButterfly
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I'm not into labels, per se. Though it is nice to learn of a definition & know that's what you've always been, but didn't have the word for. I'm doing inner work & healing. Initially for past abuses & traumas. It's also helped me with other things, like orientation & identity.

As I continue to have better understanding, the following may change. This is where I'm at at this point. Agender, demi/sapio/pan/poly romantic (more precisely, affectionate), graysexual. I'm thinking I might be grayromantic as well. Since, I don't consider myself that romantic. I have moments. I'm really more about friendship. Especially with a strong intellectual & emotional connection. Affection means a lot to me also.
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Old 08-17-2021, 01:37 PM   #2
Yaowen
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Dear Gypsybutterfly,

I like your post. You sound like a very interesting person.

Human beings seem to need various kinds of maps to guide them. And maps are simplification of complex reality in my opinion. It is only recently, however that I have learned that maps are intentionally simplistic. A map of a mountain for example would be useless if it depicted every grain of sand and every pine cone needle. The reason is that then it would be has hard to get around the map as to get around the mountain. Maps are intentional simplifications.

I think this means that maps leave out more than they include. Maps have different purposes too. A cartoon map of interesting spots on a mountain will be different than a topographical map, a geological map, a hydrological map, a map of trails, a map of flora and fauna and so on and so on.

A map for hikers would be considered untruthful if it depicted non existent trails or trails depicted in the wrong places. But a hiking map would not be considered untruthful if it failed to depict aviation navigational aids or points since aviation navigation is not the purpose of a hiking map.

A noun is a kind of map as is a statement. The same for paragraphs and books. They are all simplifications and hopefully useful for their purpose and their truth value has to be judged accordingly.

You mention 'labels' and they are another kind of simplification. Often labels become over-simplification because they reduce and impoverish rich and complex reality in excessive ways. People are perhaps the most complex individual beings on the planet and trying to "sum up a person" with a label can do an injustice to the person and to truth and justice themselves. So I think you are wise in your attitude towards labels.

Consider the dictionary definitions of "over-simplification" . . .To simplify to the point of causing misrepresentation, misconception or error . . .a simplification that goes too far . . .describing or explaining something in such a simple way that it is no longer truth or just . . . to do violence to a complex reality . . . and so on.

So I think we are creatures in need of simplifications and maps but also in need of remembering and being mindful of the abstractness and limitations of them. Luckily we have reflexive consciousness which can allow us the ability to do this.

I wonder if it was Confucius who said that while it was true that he was a man, it was truer to say he was a man AND Chinese and truer still to say he was a man, Chinese and a philosopher? 2+2=4 is true but in a sense the whole of mathematics is truer.

I think that perhaps falsity also has degrees, a thing that is rarely considered and underappreciated. For example, while it is false to say that our solar system has, let's say 3 planets it is falser to say that our solar system has 3,000,000 planets.

Perhaps good and evil constitute a range too. Being rude to someone is not good but being a dictator who orders the genocide of tens of millions of people through concentration camps and campaigns of forced starvation is much, much worse.

Some mental illnesses can make sufferers especially prone to over-simplification. A person who fails to get an A on a test can describe himself as "worthless" or as a "waste of oxygen." Clearly a loss of perspective caused by the mental illness is at least partly at work in these kinds of derogatory over-simplifications.

I think in the realm of sexuality there can also be a tendency to over-simplification. What do you think?
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:45 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyButterfly View Post
I'm not into labels, per se. Though it is nice to learn of a definition & know that's what you've always been, but didn't have the word for. I'm doing inner work & healing. Initially for past abuses & traumas. It's also helped me with other things, like orientation & identity.

As I continue to have better understanding, the following may change. This is where I'm at at this point. Agender, demi/sapio/pan/poly romantic (more precisely, affectionate), graysexual. I'm thinking I might be grayromantic as well. Since, I don't consider myself that romantic. I have moments. I'm really more about friendship. Especially with a strong intellectual & emotional connection. Affection means a lot to me also.
Did you ever make your change to who you are?
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Old 06-22-2022, 12:51 PM   #4
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Thanks for sharing this. It sounds as though you've done a lot of work to get to where you are now. Although I've read most of these terms in various places on the internet, I don't really know what most of them mean.

I do agree having the vocabulary to express how you feel (labels if you will) is very important. I waged a life-long struggle with my gender identity. And of course, since I'm old, way back when I was young none of these terms existed. Even as recently as a dozen or so years ago, I was not familiar with the terms "transgender" or "transsexual". So the only way I knew of to express how I felt was to say I always wanted to be, felt I should have been, a girl. (There's a story linked to that I think I've probably mentioned here in the forums quite some time ago. But I'll spare you a re-telling of it here.) In my own case, none of it much matters anymore since, at this point, I've become simply a generic old person.

Best wishes for continued success on your journey.
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Old 06-23-2022, 08:51 PM   #5
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@Yaowen I apologize for not responding until now. I'm going through stage 4 uterine cancer, so haven't been on. Thanks for your insight & giving me something to ponder. For me, oversimplifying orientation & identity (or anything for that matter) would be trying to use one term to describe all of the multi facets. Though, I do say I'm a dichotomy. So there's that, lol. I also say, I'm just me. That's really what it boils down to. The same for others. It's just nice to know that, something I've always been has a word to help me better understand. To be able to find others who are similar, so there isn't that feeling of isolation.
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Old 06-23-2022, 09:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnawareBS View Post

Did you ever make your change to who you are?
I'm still those things & maybe always will be. This past year I've been dealing with my third bout of cancer (stage 4 uterine) & continuing processing the multi abuse I experienced. Doing a lot of inner work & healing. Including, learning to trust more & ask for support. Have a different focus for now.
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Old 06-23-2022, 09:57 PM   #7
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@Skeezyks

I say, I'm just me. That's really what it comes down to. We all are made up of different components that can fit in a variety of groups. Though all those things shape us, to a certain extent, they don't completely define us. They can help us connect with those who are similar. Gain perspective from those who aren't. Sometimes, depending on what we're going through, we may focus on a particular aspect. The individual tree in a forest. Though, overall, we see the forest as a whole. I've read that every person we know has a different version of us. I don't dare ask. God knows what some of them might come up with, lol. I will say this, the number one thing people have told me since I was a kid is, that I'm kind or something synonymous. I'm glad for that.
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