[SadNJNY]

For virtually my entire adult life, I've really only been happy when there was a woman in my life. I've been in two LTRs, one of which was my marriage that ended 10 years ago. I don't miss either of them, but I do miss going through life with someone special. But looking back, I'm not so sure I've ever really been "in love" with anyone, but instead needed a woman in my life to validate me as "worthy" and "lovable" and somehow "complete" as a person. I discussed this quite a bit in therapy right after my separation/divorce some 10-11 years ago. In fact, it was my divorce that led me into therapy. My shrink at the time thought that I felt the need to selfishly "take a hostage" - ie, someone to keep around to validate me as a person, take care of me, love me, etc. I mostly agree with that assessment.

I'm wondering if any guys out there feel the same way about validation from women.

I have been fortunate to have had people who truly have cared about me despite my being unable to escape from existential loneliness. No significant other has been able to fill the void. The thought of validation as the role for another to play in my life has never occurred to me.

Love yourself.

[Denver Dave]

Yep, humans are social creatures and when you don't have someone to love, it seems like that's the only thing you can think about. Sometimes I think it would have been easier to live in a country like India where marriages are arranged.

So, you equate an arranged marriage to love?

[LNS9165]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

So, you equate an arranged marriage to love?

I have some similiar circumstances about feeling lovable and worthy. Ihave to find validation in myself not a woman.I'm learning that only one person can approve of you and validate first.then others will follow.

[Chancellor]

Originally Posted by Denver Dave

Yep, humans are social creatures and when you don't have someone to love, it seems like that's the only thing you can think about.

Sorry, I just can't relate to that one (the social creature part, not the human part).

Sometimes I think it would have been easier to live in a country like India where marriages are arranged.

Probably only if you've been acculturated to it.

[SadNJNY]

Originally Posted by LNS9165

I have to find validation in myself not a woman.I'm learning that only one person can approve of you and validate first.then others will follow.

Yes, that's the gist of my original post about female validation, so I wholeheartedly agree that we must approve and validate ourselves first and foremost. But once that's accomplished, is it really even necessary to get further "approval" from others? For the past decade or so, I've stopped believing in terms like "my better half" or "two halves make a whole" when it comes to relationships. Instead, I believe we ourselves must feel "whole" before entering into such unions. This is something I've struggled with in the past and at times continue to work through. I also think validation is something very different than a natural human longing for love or companionship.

[SadNJNY]

Originally Posted by Denver Dave

Yep, humans are social creatures and when you don't have someone to love, it seems like that's the only thing you can think about.

Yes, but that's loneliness and a need for companionship. I think most people, at one time or another, do feel that. I know I have.

However, there are many who marry the first person that comes along - just to avoid being lonely or feeling unloved. That, imho, is validation, neediness and co-dependency. And that's probably also a big reason why the divorce rate is so high.

[DocClyde]

It for sure is a big part of the reason behind people's feelings of inadequacy and feelings of depression--lots of people, men and women alike will find just whomever instead of going through a process and seeing if that person would be the best fit for them.

Good topic, guys!

[OneMinute]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

Love yourself.

Yes, Hello. Just wanted to say that this is really good advice...

[SadNJNY]

I encountered a woman today while shopping. She was exactly my type - from the way she spoke to the way she carried herself to the way she dressed to her physical beauty. She gave me a very brief, but friendly smile. Almost immediately, I wanted to run and hide, feeling that at this point in my miserable life, I could never have such a special woman in my life. And if I did, I would somehow feel happy again and more complete.

This is exactly what I meant by "validation from females." I catch myself doing it all the time. I know these feelings are just that - feelings not really based in any sort of reality. Logically speaking, how could anyone besides me make me feel more complete or whole? Yet these thoughts still pop up for me in these instances.

[HalfSwede]

I know I'm coming late to this discussion (like nearly three weeks), but for some reason I just remembered reading the thread and some thoughts popped into my head. And those thoughts are (bated breath here):

I'd like to say that if I wasn't already married, I wouldn't go looking for a relationship just to feel complete, that I'd want to work on myself for a while and THEN go out and look for somebody to whom to present the new, improved me. But, probably the better answer is, yes, definitely work on self-improvement, but if someone comes along who you think you have half a shot at, don't dismiss the opportunity because you don't feel 100% ready to take advantage of it.

Like you, Sad, I have run from relationships or potential relationships that I thought could have gone somewhere because I didn't feel like I was worth it. Hell, my wife would tell you I probably tried to break up with her half-a-dozen times when we first started going out. I know it doesn't seem possible now, but maybe try to imagine the possibility that things could go well for you, romantically and otherwise.

So my short answer to the overall thread would be, I wouldn't go seeking validation, but I wouldn't look askance at it if it came along, either.

[lastyearisblank]

SNJ, I'm not sure if I'm really like allowed to post here as I am female but I agree validation is not enough. I feel like, so many people eat each other alive because they think they need something from the other, and the other person isn't giving it to them. I hope you do find someone to love you though because that makes a big difference.

[SadNJNY]

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

SNJ, I'm not sure if I'm really like allowed to post here as I am female

Probably not, lol
BUT I'm happy that you did!
It's actually very helpful to have a female perspective on this topic.
In fact, I probably should have put this thread in the main area, for all to see,
and entitled it, "who has a problem with validation from others?"

[SadNJNY]

Originally Posted by HalfSwede

I'd like to say that if I wasn't already married, I wouldn't go looking for a relationship just to feel complete, that I'd want to work on myself for a while and THEN go out and look for somebody to whom to present the new, improved me. But, probably the better answer is, yes, definitely work on self-improvement, but if someone comes along who you think you have half a shot at, don't dismiss the opportunity because you don't feel 100% ready to take advantage of it.

So my short answer to the overall thread would be, I wouldn't go seeking validation, but I wouldn't look askance at it if it came along, either.

Thanks, HS! Your posts always give me pause to think and I'm grateful, my friend, that you posted on this thread.

One of the things I learned from therapy the first time around (shortly after my divorce) was to try to steer away from the women I was seeking validation from - as well as the ones seeking it from me. On the one hand, what human being doesn't like to hear nice things from another? I think there's nothing wrong with wanting to have someone in our lives who truly loves us and may even think we're the greatest thing since night baseball (and vice versa). On the flip side of that, it's easy to be seduced by those initial loads of attention (immediate gratification) when you don't really love (or even like) yourself first. Maybe I'm merely stating the obvious here. In my case, especially with my ex-wife, that's what I got: immediate gratification and validation. My inner voice was shouting out about so many red flags that I was choosing to ignore - the biggest one being, "are you really in love with this person or simply love how she's making you feel right now?" In the beginning, I think we BOTH validated each other when we were most vulnerable: each of us having just come off a bad relationship. That led to a very co-dependent pairing based not on love but on need. When all the initial romance, attention and bedroom intimacy was taken out of the equation, we found that we had no real foundation. I don't either of us ever really fell in love with the other. It took a while before we divorced, but we were doomed all along. From what I've read, that scenario is not at all uncommon. Some couples decide to work through it, some do not.

Anyway, live and learn. This was just something I wanted to get out there.

Thanks for all the replies!

[HalfSwede]

Thanks right back at you, Sad! Good thread you've got going here. The only other thing I would add right now is that a sign of a healthy relationship, IMHO, is that the partners can give and take criticism. That can't be all there is, of course, any more than it can be solely a mutual admiration society. I've dated women who could not take criticism, and I've had a hard time listening to it myself. Being dumped is probably the ultimate form of negative feedback, but I hope that I'm a better person for having gone through it as often as I have.

[DocClyde]

Just a note: Women are not allowed to post in men's forum unless the OP allows her to post about his topic.

However; with the OP being okay with this--I will keep it--but please be reminded of the "no women" rule, as there is a "no male" rule in the women's forum...

Thanks,

DocClyde, Moderator

[SadNJNY]

Originally Posted by DocClyde

Just a note: Women are not allowed to post in men's forum unless the OP allows her to post about his topic.

However; with the OP being okay with this--I will keep it--but please be reminded of the "no women" rule, as there is a "no male" rule in the women's forum...

Thanks, DocClyde, I appreciate your reply....
"lastyear" is a friend who's been of great help to me,
so in this instance, I indeed have no problem with her
adding her comments

[SadNJNY]

Originally Posted by HalfSwede

Being dumped is probably the ultimate form
of negative feedback, but I hope that I'm a better person for having gone
through it as often as I have.

Same here on the dumping part.

I think (or I'd like to believe) that we learn at least something from each failed relationship.
I've often regretted ever marrying my ex-wife in the first place.
Truth be known, I often still feel that way, even 10 years after my divorce.

But logically, I know that relationship happened for a reason.
I suppose the rub here is that sometimes that "reason" isn't immediately made crystal clear to us.
Perhaps it sometimes takes the next relationship to give us some clarity on the previous one.

[SolutionIsProcess]

Hi SadNJNY,

The person who said you need to love yourself is right. And in saying that, I believe they did mean 'love yourself' and not 'love yourself so you can now get women'.

I know it is difficult, but you're going to have to detach from the idea of seeing women as offering something that will make you complete. Because if you don't detach from that idea, and you do in fact find someone, you're going to be in for a big letdown in the long run. I am 100% sure of it.

I was part of the infamous pickup artist community for 8 years and got really screwed up with the validation stuff. I mean, really screwed up. It took a lot of psychotherapy, among a ton of lifestyle changes (including being alone), in order for me to develop the one relationship that was the most important: the one with myself.

I'm willing to bet whatever negative beliefs you have about yourself that cause you to seek validation from women have been widely influenced by social constructions of what 'masculinity' is, and what it means to be a person of worth. You should really consider seeing a therapist (if you're not already), and preferably, a feminist therapist.

I am at a point now where I can honestly say I like myself, and I like being alone. In fact, I prefer being alone in comparison to what my dating life was like before. I'd rather be alone and celibate forever than engage in any other empty hookups or affairs ever again like everyone else in this 'raunch culture' does. Sure, I don't attract women like I used to (because I've chosen to no longer play the mainstream masculine/domination role which didn't fit me anyway, and I question if it really fits anybody...but that's a different story...).

Trust me, I can empathize with you, even if our situations have their differences, the emotions I felt sound extremely similar to what you feel now. And yes, it sucks...bad. But I promise there is a way out. Just be willing to find it, rather than looking for shortcuts that will only put you in a deeper hole in the long run.

Best wishes and my highest support to you, sir.