I need another man's opinion

Hi guys, I'd like to have another man's opinion about a relationship with a girl. But, first I have to explain where I'm coming from though, because I realize now my childhood has had a major effect on my adult life now, many years later. I apologize for the long posting, but I think all of this should be relevant, I guess, I don't know.

OK, so where do I begin? I was a pretty abnormal child growing up, had no siblings and spent much time alone during pre-school age. There were other children at my house sometimes but I never really connected with any of them. But, I was never a problem child, just very easy to raise (according to my mom) because I just never stepped out of line or she never had reason to do anything, I also never ever shouted, screamed, made a noise, ran around or anything like that. Later on in my life, thinking back to that time, I always found that strange, abnormal even, considering how almost all other children that I have seen had some degree of loudness, or naughtiness about them, but not in a bad way, just in a natural "kids being kids" type of way. Anyway, all my problems started when I went to school, because for the first time I had to share my space and interact with other children. I was always a slow learner for some reason, and by the time I went to school, I still couldn't dress myself or tie my own shoes, because those things used to confuse the hell out of me for some reason. Consequently, children mocked and bullied me, and as time went on, my natural lag behind others was always a source of much entertainment for the other children. Time went on and I remember that I always formed relationships with older people, my parents' age, rather than other children. People were frustrated with me, because they didn't want a child around them when they want to discuss stuff.

Fast forward a few years. Things at home were OK, but my dad was an alcoholic and my mom used to bear the brunt of these things, even long before I was born. They argued and actually viciously fought constantly. I think my mom had menopause too at this stage of my life also, I don't know, we also began fighting sometimes, but I think she just felt isolated in a house with men. I always just retreated to my room and into my own little world. Then it got worse. A teacher at school began bullying me. That was a year of hell for me and at this point my mind became blank for the next two years of my life. I don't remember much from that time, just my parents' marriage got worse, school still was terrible. I do remember my dad saying "don't worry, your mom and I aren't getting a divorce, we'll stay together for your sake" whatever that meant. Anyway, when I finally "woke up" out of that blank zone, my whole life had changed. I don't even know how it happened but I was fat. Maybe I never realized it, but my isolation from other kids at school perhaps prevented me from playing sports with them, I don't know. But, now my life was even more awkward than before, I had a new problem to be concious of. Things went on, I went to high school, and surprisingly I developed well academically, ending top of the class at the end of high school, with academic colours a few times. During this time of course, I did begin to like girls but I never had a girlfriend and just avoided it all together. I then went on and studied at university, and for the first time I loved being in a learning environment. It was nothing like school at all, no bullies, no laughing and mocking, just independent young people doing their own thing, and needless to say I loved it. I finished my degree and then enrolled for another, an honours degree.

And, that's where it happened. I met HER. A lovely, amazing young girl, with a heart and hair of gold, just so beautiful, kind, gentle, cute, and surprisingly quiet too. She was unlike all those others before, no *****y "attitude", no "I'm hot stuff" kind of attitude at all. Man, I fell in love. Just everything about her was so great. I knew an amazing girl like this only comes by once in a lifetime. I knew she was the one, hell, she still is. If she was mine I would marry her today. We had a great friendship going, but I was shy. I was never good with people, especially girls. And then, that's where my past came back to haunt me. You see, I knew, she would never look at me twice in "that way". I was fat, unsociable, a "nerd". Needless to say, it wasn't long before she hooked up with the class clown joker guy, that always-single guy, 5 years older than everyone else who likes the young girls, yeah him. Isn't it funny? There's always a guy like that around! Yeah, they went out, he used her. Uhh... we finished our course, she left with him back to another city where she comes from originally, he followed. I heard later they broke up, he was done for DUI and she had to bail him, etc... My heart was broken. I knew guys like him, what they were about, I knew he was going to hurt her, all I could do is nothing. I still cry when I think about it, it hurts me so much to now this amazing girl was being hurt. Yeah, we lost contact, but one day I decided I was going to do it, I was going to tell her that I loved her...but my courage failed me. At this point I was 23, still a virgin. I waited my whole life for a girl like that, and I wanted her to be my first and only, my wife and my true love. But, that was now screwed. Everything started dismantling automatically in my life, no effort on my part. It wasn't long, I knew it was coming, I fell into a new life of emptiness and no care in the world. I now needed to find a "new" girlfriend, a new love. Phah, like that was gonna happen. It wasn't long, my desire began eating me up, and I had some spare cash, so...I "met" with an escort. She said she was 38, but she was more like late 40's. She took my virginity, right there. Ah, it felt s----t. I didn't know sex felt so boring. Oh, but shame, all credit to her, I mean she tried her best she was so passionate, but it still sucked big time. But, like everything else, it became an addiction. I knew it couldn't feel so boring with everyone, so I went out more, seeking others, more prostitutes, young, old, blonde, brunette, you name it. I lost track of the number of women I slept with. I must have wasted the equivalent of 1000's of dollars on sex. OK, to my credit, I did try a lot of online dating before I broke my virginity though, but let's face it, that's just a ripoff scheme. Those women never answer you, I doubt the profiles are even real.

O man, I was in a deep whole now! After a year without my true love (we did chat over the phone now and then, but that to me is not the same as seeing her), I decided to write her a love letter. Somehow, I knew I was going to fail before I even sent it. Yip, a few days later, after copious apologies on my part, she told me that it was just so surprising, and shocking, she never expected it. Of course not, what was I thinking? Sending her that thing a year later. That was two years ago, I haven't heard from her since. I slept with more women, met some nice one's actually who liked me very much (they still do), but that's not the point, I don't want them. After all this I realised I was a sex addict now too. A guy who kept his virginity until 23 was now a sex addict! Everything is f*cked up, yes there's no other way of saying it. I went to a psychologist and they diagnosed me with autism spectrum disorder high functioning (Asperger's). That explains my lack of social abilities my whole life and my abnormal childhood, but argh, what's the point of finding this out now? So, they're basically telling me I'll never have that girl I wanted because I just suck, period. Now I have proof that I genuinely suck!

So, now I am here, today, at 25 years old. I hate my life. Even if my true love came back, and said all she needed was time, it wouldn't make a difference to me now anymore, the damage is done. She'll never have me, after knowing all of this.

So, I guess that is my question. If the miracle should ever happen that she contacts me again and maybe even suggests a relationship (I know, I know, it'll never happen), should we go ahead and get together? I mean there's so much to consider now. I've slept with so many women. Maybe she is even married or a mom already (I don't know, we don't have contact anymore), children with another guy and the marriage didn't work out. Maybe after being hurt she finally wants to give me a chance one day in our 30's? Will I even live that long with my poor health? Does it even matter? We'll both be different people by then, both just so damaged perhaps. I have Asperger's which means a marriage with me will be extremely difficult for her to handle too. If we have children, she'll raise them basically on her own, as I'll stay a big child myself until I die. Should a guy get married to a woman that is divorced? Or has children already? Then again, what am I worried about? It's not like she'll ever phone me again anyway. I pretty much f*cked it up with my stupid love letter.

Guys, I'm just lost. No point to life anymore.

Hello StbGuy,

There is always a chance to fix things and make them a new. It really sounds like you love her, why don't you try to reach out to her again. Someone has to make the first move.

Best Wishes

Hi blwi3310, thanks for that Your current mood status actually describes my situation perfectly, I too am torn as to what to do. You are right, no doubt, that I should make the first move, but I'm just so afraid, so afraid of failing again. I promised myself that I would not bother her, I erased her contact details totally so as to take away the temptation. I know she wants nothing to do with me, I know she doesn't love me. So I really don't know what to do. I would never want to force her into anything, having to deal with me if she really just isn't up to it. I'm the one that loves her (i.e. I'm the one with the problem/issue) not the other way around. I think she doesn't even like me probably. I know I've got to let her go, it's just so hard .

Dear StbGuy:

To be fair, I must state that I may be eminently unqualified to give proper advice here, as I got very lucky and fell in love with the first woman I dated, and we've now been married 30.5 years. So you or anyone else here can flame me to cinders if I'm talking through my hat, but FWIW, here goes:

I agree fully with blwi3310 here: you can't presume to read this woman's mind, and will never truly know what she wants unless you ask. And certainly you can be tactful about it. Your desire not to force anything indicates you're a gentleman, and my guess is she'd appreciate one of those, as they're in dangerously short supply these days.

Were I the one re-initiating contact, I'd flat-out tell her how much this impressed you. If the modern dating scene described in the article below is any indication, my guess is she'd want no part of that ...

... and that she hates "cocky funny" as much as you hate "*****y"/"I'm hot stuff" attitudes. Personally, I can't think of a better foundation for a relationship.

(Hey -- what happened to your "noble gas Xenon" avatar and update? If she has any literacy with the periodic table, she'll appreciate that big-time!)

Could you provide some details on how things were going before your breakup and what precipitated it? These could be important clues as to how to proceed now.

You mean people still do this in this modern age of texting and sexting and nude selfies? That alone is damned impressive! (To clarify: I'm 54 and grew up with no internet, but went to public schools that still taught both writing skills and the best poetry English lit has to offer, including all the classic love poems.)

This psychy-boy should be tied to a cactus and ripped with gaffing hooks if he thinks his job ends with slapping on a label -- and in such a disparaging manner at that. I don't know what the "treatment" for autism/Asperger's is, but as noted above, you're obviously capable of courtesy, empathy and nobility, and A/A hasn't contaminated that. If you decide to go for treatment, then if this doesn't give a psychologist an ideal foundation to work with, I don't know what does.

Sincerely hope this helps. Feel free to discuss further, and I'll contribute what I can.

Thanks -- DSM-3.1415926

Hello StbGuy, I just wanted to add my words of support here, too. Despite all your self-deprecation you sound like a very genuine and decent guy, so give yourself a break!

I must admit that I wonder if you are being at all realistic about this girl/woman, regardless of the reality. It sounds like you somewhat idealised her from the start, which many of us did in our teens and early 20's and then, because she 'got away from you' for whatever reason, she remained 'perfect' in your imagination ever since. The fact that you haven't met anyone else that touched you in quite the same way since, is the problem here.

I remember falling deeply in love with a girl when I was 18, who I did go out with for the next 5-6 years but who broke up with me. I was devastated and really didn't get over it until many years later. In fact, I didn't have sex with anyone else for many years simply because I felt so 'bonded' to that first love. But I did fall in love again, and it did feel as good as the first, better in many ways because it healed that heartbreak and made me feel whole again. And then that one ended and another came. Life goes on!

As for the prostitutes and sex addiction. I don't know what constitutes sex addiction for a young man with enough cash! I'm 50 now but if I could afford it I might well be doing the same. To be honest with you, very honest here, I kinda envy you the courage of your convictions. I've never been 'brave' enough to pay for sex!

In any case, you shouldn't let that affect your self esteem, which you clearly have. And I don't believe it's an issue until it becomes an issue, if you see what I mean. If you were in a committed relationship and continued seeing prostitutes then there would be an issue, but as a single, young guy with excess cash then I don't see the issue.

I also agree you have to be cautious about that diagnosis and not take it on without further research. It may be wrong. It may be only partially right. It sounds to me like you are better and more capable than you give yourself credit for. So I think your main 'issue' is self-esteem rather than anything else. If you felt better about yourself much of the rest of it would fall into place.

So take a step back and don't be so hard on yourself. Many of us guys have experienced the same, or similar situations in our youth, as you describe. Lost 'perfect' loves. Feeling inadequate about our own atttractiveness. Feeling over sexed in some way - most guys end up masturbating endlessly and most would be too shy and awkward to even consider paying a woman for sex - I certainly was!

It's tough being a young man on so many levels. But you're not alone in the way you feel, it's a part of life, unfortunately, but it will pass. You will find the happiness and fulfilment you hope for, you have the right attitude, I can tell.

No, I wouldn't flame you at all . I am glad you got lucky enough to find love the first time around, and stay married for over 30 years now. Well done, I envy and admire you quite a bit.

I agree with that too, I definitely cannot read her mind for sure. But, I think all the indications were there. She never displayed those signs that a girl would display if she were interested in you (which I only discovered afterwards and which I soooo wish I had known in high-school . When I read about these "signs" I was like DAMN!! that chick X used to do that, and that chick Y used to do another one, and DAMN!!! Z, that oh so popular and so hot Z, used to do ALL OF THESE whenever she saw me!!! But, I guess it's too late for tears now, right? Anyway, it was always just going to be about sex with them so I'm actually glad it never happened). The thing is, before she knew me personally, she was in the same class as I was and she was one of those girls that used to smile at me, but I'm sure that doesn't mean much more than just that. She probably finds me just a little attractive, not totally unattractive, but not enough to take it further than a smile. In the following year our class shrinked quite a lot and we were in the same sub-class (or stream I should say, only 5 of us) so things were a lot more personal, we had to do more oral presentations, etc. so the 5 of us grew close and she and I got to know each other well. She used to say that she admired the way I did my presentations with so much confidence. And, then one day she had to do one and I saw why she said that. She totally freaked out, she had a massive public-speaking problem and the poor girl was shaking like a leaf. Her nose was glued to her speech and she read the whole thing at the speed of like 1000 words per minute! I felt so sorry for her and then I began to feel like a jerk since I did the whole thing like I was casually talking to my friends (OK, which I was doing) with no papers at all.

You see, that's the problem, I realized it years later. People just didn't like me. Actions speak louder than words. I really am not saying this to boast or anything, but I was pretty smart at university, and I was also the guy that used to score high on the tests and answer the professor's in-class questions. It was so natural for me, but it makes you look like a smart-***, and nobody likes a smart-***. I began to realize it back then already and did an "experiment". I kept quiet, but, all that happened is nobody then answered and the professor used to get angry. In my mind I thought, dammit, I should rather have answered because I did know it. I can't help I'm like this. It's a trait of my condition. Call it narcissistic or whatever, but I hate to be put in the same "box" with other people if it really doesn't apply to me. Why should I fail just to fit in with all others that failed, when I clearly had the knowledge to succeed? I think this is what has happened. She, along with my other classmates slowly began resenting me more and more each day.

It's so clear to see when people feel this way about you, I have over 20 years experience . I think it challenges people in a way that they don't want to be challenged, because it's so unusual for such a quiet, lonely, seemingly asocial guy, to suddenly shine and be so confident when in the class environment. I think 99% of the time people just don't know what to make of me.

To summarize, I don't think she hated me, but she didn't like me, I don't think. She is OK with just knowing me as an acquaintance.

I guess I could do that, although I think all women to some degree are attracted to cocky-funny, I think she has a reasonable penchant for it too, otherwise she would never have dated that other guy in our class, who defines the term cocky-funny in my opinion. I think it's an age thing. I think young girls are prone to this, and as they grow older they see that these men lack substance and character for long term relationships.

I doubt she would ever see it as I'm sure she won't use the PsychCentral site ever in her life But, on a personal note, do you think that was cool?

Yeah, we never dated . I just loved her in secret . It was only after everyone split up (end of class) that I contacted her again.

I guess I'm different that way then too, to most other people my age . I like writing though.

Yeah, I don't think I can blame him, I kind of went there to see if there was a "label" first of all, as I was tired of making my own theories up as to why my life was such a mess. I don't think this department where he was actually goes ahead with giving you "treatment" other than referring you. I think they do small-scale CBT, but I see straight through that . I once told him his "scoring system" was wrong (asked him if he had never heard of "negative numbers" LOL) and he said he actually agrees, but if I have the balls to take it up with the people that write the DSM, then I should definitely do so! So, to me that system no longer "tricked" me because I realized... wait I don't want to ruin it for anyone else too, especially if it works for them.

Thanks so much, it definitely does. I've been doing a bit more research on PsychCentral and I've been looking at Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). Maybe I'm just a nasty, self-centred person after all that has some sort of feeling of "entitlement" that I don't deserve to be alone. I've learnt that nobody really deserves anything in life, you get whatever gets given to you and whatever you choose to pursue yourself, nothing is ever a "given" as such. I personally don't believe a common statement made by many today that says "nobody deserves to be alone" or "everyone deserves love/to have someone in their life". I don't think that is necessarily a given.

Thanks very much for the reply and support. I guess I idealize her a little bit, but I really did fall in love with the real her. I met her long before I was in love with her, I slowly fell more and more in love with her over about a two-year period (sorry, I think my very first post was inaccurate, I actually met her a year before enrolling for the second degree). At first, I didn't actually think that much of her, can you believe it?!?! She was cute, yeah, but there were prettier girls (there always are). But, that was before I knew her. I would say I am actually 80% in love with her personality and only about 20% with her looks. Don't get me wrong though, she is very sexy and very beautiful (in the eye of the beholder I guess ), but I think it's because her personality has the capacity to enhance her physical beauty very much somehow, it just suites her so very well. It's so hard to explain, but what I think I'm trying to say is, the more I got to know her, the more sexy and beautiful she became too, or maybe she just became sexier with age and really started blossoming in her 20's , I don't know. I understand what you mean, that perhaps I have painted a greater picture of her in my mind than what is true. I wouldn't say I quite did that (a little bit maybe, but I guess that's understandable since I love her, I am a little subjective), she wasn't perfect. She was quite a compulsive smoker for example, she used to turn every mid-class break into a smoke break, and the fact she dated that slack, loafer guy in our class did have me thinking sometimes "What were you thinking with that guy?" and made me question her "choice" in men, but it's wrong of me to judge, I can't say that guy is a "bad choice", no matter who or what he is. But, when you love someone you love them despite all these things. The best way I can describe her is normal on the outside, bit shy, but great personality which comes out over time. That's why I feel it was more than just being "in love" it was more serious. It was way more mature than any other crushes or feelings I had in high-school.

I guess so, but I've got additional problems (autism/Asperger's) which makes it a little harder for me. Meeting people is not easy for me, initiating conversation even less so, and finally entering a relationship almost impossible. I've been single all my life, and I've had no real friends. I think one can say I don't start the race from the grid with the other guys, I start last, in the pit lane and then I've got to work my way into the race from there.

When you've got depression, you can do the most out-of-character things. I even surprised myself with that one, frankly. But, it's because I no longer cared. However, I have to be honest though, before doing that I had never even been hugged by a girl before, or touched whatsoever, so that's actually why I ended up doing that. That's actually all I wanted, but I eventually wanted to feel sex too probably, I suppose, I don't know. Of course, you pay for "full service", and she and I were both naked after the massage anyway, so.... But, for me, sex itself actually sucks big time. The actual act hardly feels like anything great, despite all the hype on TV and everywhere. I admit, I like foreplay, and kissing and all that probably a 100 times more, it's a lot more fun. I regret breaking my virginity when I did, I actually, come to think of it, wouldn't mind being a 40-year old virgin, if I knew it was so boring. I wish I could've told that Elliot Rodger's guy how much it actually sucks, and how pointless it actually is to obsess about it so much. Maybe he would've thought twice about his killing spree and suicide if he did what I did...I don't know. Maybe a couple of nights in Las Vegas would've cured him .

I think what ultimately has happened is I have "grown up" sexually now. Ever since doing this, I actually don't fantasize so much about women anymore, not as much as when you are a teenager say (or a virgin). When you're a teen you imagine girls to be soooooo amazing under their clothes, like heaven, but once you've been there for real, and seen it for real (not on you computer screen LOL), it's a little bit of a let down if we're really honest. I think there's too much hype that pu$$y is the greatest thing on earth for any guy, I don't really agree. I think the media hype out there that is associated with sex is rather unjustified really, the whole thing about female orgasms and man's male organ size, etc. too. I think they use these things more as a marketing tool than anything else nowadays. It's always about money somehow. Essentially the media are also prostitutes because they use sex to make money too Bet they won't ever admit that!

I know I'm only half your age (a youngster), but I would say please don't go down the route I did. I was not brave I was stupid. It desensitizes you to sex. I would rather 100 times more now search for a loving partner and make love, rather than have arranged sex. Without that bond, sex really sucks, it sucked for me right from the beginning, and I'm convinced it's the love that's missing. But, you quickly become addicted because it's easy to get, and there's no hangover or overdose or drop afterwards. I mean, OK, the sex sucks, but the foreplay and stuff is still good, and anything involving someone else will always be better than going it alone in your room.

I would almost say, visiting prostitutes for long enough can turn a guy into a misogynist (woman hater), which could have dangerous consequences. That's why I quit, as hard as it may be (haha), and it's actually quite a waste of money when you begin to think about it.

It is a bit of an issue for me though, I'm not one to do things like this, it's totally out of character for me, and I now regret it rather a lot. It's like you say too, there always still exists that possibility of me still meeting someone and then how do I tell them about my "history". I've never had a girlfriend but somehow I've had a lot of sex, that doesn't sound good in any sense.

Uhmm...truthfully, I did quite a bit of research on the condition and I must say, the diagnosis is pretty spot on, unfortunately. But, the criteria are wide in scope, and many people who are "on the spectrum" are just that, they lie in a different place to a fellow-sufferer (or a different degree of "functioning" in psycho-babble). It's a continuum between "nearly normal" and "out of the game completely". I'm somewhere in the middle.

But, I do think I'm showing some narcissistic traits too. I have researched NPD (narc. personality dis.) recently. I fear the psych's may have missed this, because it's not exactly trying to be found . I do have this in my family, on my dad's side, my grandma was pretty tough to deal with as a person.

Yeah, I guess. It is hard though. It is also so easy to compare new girls I meet (when I ever do) to her as well, it comes naturally. That is something I'll have to work on, because everyone is special in their own way. Also it's hard fathoming that feeling I have for her in terms of another girl, in other words, it's almost like she defines what my love for a girl is. Maybe my love for her was conditional in nature (I loved her because of her personality, looks, hair, smile, etc.) and only when you can love unconditionally maybe you are free of that. But, then again, I wouldn't have thought that loving a partner is unconditional love, that's normally something we have for our family/parents/children isn't it? We CHOOSE our partner, automatically implying that person had attributes others didn't. I don't know.

I got tired of it, I was doing it more and more each day, and it was making my frustrations worse (and giving me tennis elbow, LOL). It wasn't taking my mind off sex, it was actually beginning to frustrate me and remind me that I don't have a girlfriend. I can't imagine what a neurotic mess I would've been by now already. But, I still regret losing my virginity that way, but I couldn't find another. Stuff like online dating, and all that, just doesn't work. I genuinely did try, for months nobody answered. One girl kept my phone number and then contacted me the other day (2 years later!), long after I was off of it already. We chatted, but just didn't click, she's totally the opposite of my first love.

Thanks so much. I really hope so, but if that is to be found in a relationship now anymore, I don't know. A lot has changed. The prostitutes had a lot to do with it. I don't know if I would marry my first love anymore, even if she did appear on my doorstep tomorrow (I wish ). It's just so unclear now, I don't know what I want. It's almost like a life alone doesn't seem so bad after all, I don't know. The only thing that was so great was that feeling I had when I thought about her or saw her. But a relationship today is so much more than feelings, it's about money, building a home, building a family. I don't know if I want all of that, because it doesn't sound all that great to me (I don't know why . I think I've become desensitized to happiness). Geez, I'm so stuck.

It isn't narcissistic unless you're trying to "lord it" over others with your intelligence -- snubbing them for being less smart, deliberately trying to dumbfound them with dazzling feats of smartness, etc. As long as you're conducting yourself with decency and manners, their envy of intelligence is their problem (and hers), not yours.

Not all of them -- my not-yet-wife, while young, appreciated "funny," but if I'd been cocky my *** would still bear the print of her screen door.

Quite cool indeed! Now if only I could find a way to fill my outer electron shell -- and I don't mean by shock treatment

Me too -- don't get me started.

Wrong -- see quote #1 and reply above. And self-diagnosis is a grave mistake. Oddly enough, I too was worried about NPD and started a thread in that forum, but then took the test cited in one reply and scored 1 out of 40.

Hi DSM, thanks for the reply, and all the kind support thus far . I've got to say, you really paint a different picture of her for me throughout your replies so far. You've made me think more about what the "real" her is like. Maybe you're right, maybe she never really did like that loafer/joker cocky kind of guy after all. But, you know, I'll always wonder, why did she ever date him?

I've thought about it a lot. I remember before she really knew me, she used to smile at me quite a bit in our larger class (the one before our small, intimate class the following year). We didn't know each other, but she always greeted me and smiled at me, without me even knowing her name. She used to show subtle "signs" every now and then, she did touch me on the arm or so, and she did so first, before I ever did. I simply reciprocated afterwards, touching her on the shoulder, or whatever.

But, all this stuff is in the past. I don't know how to proceed in the general sense of relationships, not even specifically with this girl. The Asperger's diagnosis is very real for me, it clarifies so many of my shortcomings, it's uncanny. I guess thinking about NPD is probably not the best, but I think the Asperger's has given me a natural self-absorbency all my life. The narcissistic traits arise from having to "do things for yourself" or not being able to "rely on others". I think I have lost somewhat faith in people I suppose, due to accumulating effects of outcomes of specific circumstances and events in my life.

After reading many of the forums on here regarding relationships with Asperger's people, these personal accounts have given me insight into relationships between "normal" people and "autistic" people. As expected, I see that many are fraught with hardships, the basic needs of the "normal" person are not met (that are naturally met without even consciously trying in a relationship between "normal" people). Romantic relationships are all about emotional expression, especially love, and that's the problem I have since I have the condition - lack of emotional expression (and empathy). Even on my best day, trying my hardest, a "normal" guy would blow me out of the water with no effort at all, he doesn't even need to think about it, it's natural. Let's face it, I would just suck at any relationship with any girl, one week down the line she would be out looking for another guy, just to get her emotional needs met. And, who could blame her? I just suck, and I should just accept it.

So, it really doesn't matter anymore, I guess I'll just be alone forever. Hell, nobody does want to be alone, but what else can I do? I can't drag someone into a relationship with me and force them to endure an emotionally empty, stupid, joke of a relationship, that's not fair. I know nobody wants to hear me say this, but I really do deserve to be alone.

This is a stereotype; don't be fooled by it. All relationships need effort and work at times. Two humans, by definition imperfect, living in such close proximity for so long -- no matter how starry-eyed a couple is in their early days together, real life and its problems always reassert themselves. Nothing comes "naturally" for any couple at that point.

IMHO one of the foulest phrases in all of literature (because grossly unrealistic) is, "And they lived happily ever after." Alas, "And they confronted their problems unafraid, with decency and respect for each other's views, and found mutually acceptable compromises" doesn't have the same ring, and certainly wouldn't have made the Brothers Grimm or Walt Disney any royalties.

Don't. Give. Up! If you were really that selfish, you wouldn't be expressing these concerns -- and indeed wouldn't even be capable of doing so. There's a book called The Journal of Best Practices: A Memoir of Marriage, Asperger Syndrome, and One Man's Quest to Be a Better Husband by David Finch. I haven't read it yet and thus can't pass judgment on it, but you might want to check it out.

Hi DSM, thanks for everything thus far . I've got some deep-seated issues that I haven't shared here yet, and I think I need some counselling or something. But, I think there are a few points that give me trouble and make me think the way I think, here they are:

- I'm pretty sure my dad has Asperger's, I see much of my behaviour in him too, and I think that's where I got it from. I've been watching my dad and my mom's relationship since I was a child. My dad has only ever known how to "provide", how to be a "breadwinner", and he lives that role. He has established himself as that, and my mom is the "homemaker", and she is fully dependent on him alone. His attitude is clear, he feels that he makes the much greater contribution in the relationship, since he provides. He feels my mom's role is easy and subordinate quite frankly, and he has no problem reminding her either. Also, he constantly reminds me that he is doing it for "us" (my mom and I) and he is doing it for me. The bottom line is, he feels that is his only role and that he is doing more than enough already, the husband's role is bring in the money and the wife and child should be more than satisfied. My mom has never had any kind of emotional support in their relationship. Their marriage is a financial arrangement, there's no other way of describing it. My dad is always distant, doing his own thing, until he wishes to "interfere" with something and lay down his authority as the family head.

- I can't approach women "that way". I feel disgusting and overbearing, like I'm giving her unwanted inappropriate attention. I feel like this always, every single time. I feel like they don't want my attention, that they are disgusted by it. With prostitutes it's easy, because they know why I'm there. With them they know that I seek sex. With ordinary women, it always just seems like they want to be friends and no more, it's ALWAYS like this. Their body language gives me the message loud and clear. I can see they're OK with me being a friend, but would be totally grossed out if I "made a move". It's been like this with every single girl I've ever known. They are disgusted by the thought of ever being with me in "that way".

Knowing all of this put's me out of the game essentially. I feel like a disgusting pig that is trying to take advantage of women. Any sexual behaviour feels inappropriate and feels like I'm doing something wrong or violating her in some way. I don't think I'll ever be able to do a relationship. I have too many issues.

Are you sure this isn't simply emotional unavailability? My own dad was like that; it was common among greatest-generation marriages. Given the consideration you've shown in your posts, you don't strike me as that kind of person. Some of your issues may stem from never having had a loving marriage modeled for you by your parents. (Don't get me started on my parents' marriage; I found out only at age 24 that they'd acted a sham.)

If you and/or dad want some perspective, see if you can find a copy of What Is a Wife Worth? by US divorce lawyer Michael Minton. He was the first to put a solid estimate on what a wife's salary would be based on all the duties she takes on ("child psychologist" among them). This was $44,000 a year in 1978 US dollars! Dad should appreciate this enough to show mom some genuine love!

Great -- a marriage based on guilt. *bangs head in frustration and offers 's a-plenty*

Again, you can't presume to read their minds, and I wouldn't assume you're infallible at reading their body language either. Sometimes things do have to proceed more slowly, though -- my not-yet-wife and I did quite a lot of dating before we made love. I firmly believe a prime reason we've done so well is that we weren't "on the prowl" when we met, and then let things unfold in their own due course. Ultimately, a principal purpose of a long-term relationship is to give each other a comfort zone; it's wise to lay the foundations for that well before sex happens.

Thanks DSM , yeah I doubt my dad would read a book . My parents' marriage is exactly that, a sham. I know they don't love each other, probably never have. As a result, I've often asked myself, why the hell did they have me in the first place? Why, when you are better off separated/divorced do you go and get into something that binds you even more to each other? And, here's another thing, they could've chosen not to have me! Yes, that's right, my mom couldn't get pregnant, I am a test-tube baby! Why on earth, when you've got all this choice, do you go and choose something that is the worst option for both of you? It really doesn't make sense.

I don't belong on this earth, I know it. I can feel it in my bones every living day. I don't know why I'm supposed to walk this planet. I don't belong here and never have, I feel like an alien all the time. People don't know what to make of me. I'm asocial, atypical, abnormal, un-integrable on all levels, I don't "gel" with anyone, I don't get along with others, I don't understand others, never have and never will. I've got a serious problem with everything that matters.

I really don't know what's wrong with me.

Hey guys! I know this is quite an old thread. Just wanted to tie up some loose ends.

I guess what I want to say is - I'm finally over her. I'm happy again for the first time in years. I've had some great ideas for what I want to do in my future as an occupation and I have regained my once lost dream of having a family of my own one day.

I was reading my very first post in the thread and wow, it sounds like another guy completely!

I think I'll carry the scars of depression forever, but it's not so bad because those scars are present in the form of new-found wisdom.

I think for all the guys who are struggling with lost loves and relationships - I think the best thing to do is forget everything you know and think you know. It is simply a matter of a man and woman's paths intersecting at the right points. If a relationship didn't work out, it is either the two paths don't intersect right now at this moment in time, or they are just not meant to intersect. There is nothing wrong with you as a man, and there is nothing wrong with the women either. There is simply a set of attributes to each path which either makes them meet or not, and this thing can be time dependent too, as attributes can change with time. So to any lost-feeling guys reading - don't sweat it!

All the best!

Women!

I'm glad things are better and you are moving on.

I can relate to the way you feel. You mentioned your parents fighting and retreating to your room. I would look there for the source of your struggles, rather than to your Asperger's. As you said you are high functioning,and eventually caught up in school. FWIW I also have a hidden disability. It certainly makes things very difficult.

However, it was only a year ago that I realized that a lot of my problems were due to not getting the love and emotional and physical affection I needed as a child. Also, my parents were not happy. It lead to me having difficulty socially, obsessing about girls, excessively fearing rejection, depression, and to sexualized misplaced efforts to experience affection. With my disability I needed more support and affection, not less. I'm seeing a therapist now.

You might look up "insecure attachment" or "attachment theory", or "childhood emotional neglect", and see if it sounds familiar.

Yes, I think you make a lot of sense in what you're saying, thank you Walking Man!

I have come to realize many issues of mine are more related to my childhood in my home itself rather than the challenges the autism brought.

Your account actually sounds very similar to mine! I'm so sorry you had to experience that too, there's nothing quite like parents in a loveless marriage. I used to blame myself as being the reason they were "forced" to stay together, especially considering I was conceived by IVF. I used to ask myself why all the time - why have a baby when you hate each other? I guess I'll never know why.

I also obsessed over this girl I suppose. To me it felt like true love. I still can't understand why I have to leave people alone. I don't have a problem doing it, it just hurts me though because I seek love and acceptance.

I am very attached to my parents too, you're right, and attached to many things too, and I was attached to this girl too. I am seriously afraid of rejection, and even the slightest indifference from another person feels like full-blown rejection to me. I know I have a serious problem, and I fear for myself, what if this makes me snap or go crazy? I don't want to be one of those guys on TV on "Very Bad Men" or "Most Evil" or whatever it's called.

Shockingly, many of those men have had a similar childhood to mine. It's not so much physical or sexual abuse (I had neither), it's emotional, and in the wrong type of personality (like mine INTJ, with autism, etc. and my mind is like video clips racing always thinking 24/7) it grows and festers out of proportion until it changes the man's life. It's almost like all this stuff is buried under a layer so I can't access it to deal with it, but it comes up out of own free will when I don't choose to want it, which is never actually (I wish it will go away forever).