how do you feel like a man?

HeyJoe posted in the 'who's the man' thread that all the guys who struggle to do their best every day are men. That's a great thought that I'm going to keep in the forefront of my mind this week. My problem is, I don't feel 'manly.' I don't feel 'masculine enough.' And I feel like such a loser and a wimp for even voicing that and typing that here. Growing up, I failed recess; I failed 'gym class.' I failed the guys social mileu. I wasn't accepted--I was different. No one likes a brain, even though I never ever said anything about my intelligence, even though I always downplayed my smarts. I suck at anything athletic or team-oriented. I'm just not 'one of the guys.'

Growing up, I was very aware of how easily and natural other guys were joking and goofing around, just getting along, whether on the playground, or in class, in the locker room. I was, and am still somewhat shy.

My therapist told me to think about men like one thinks of music--that they're all different types, but they're all still music. I just don't feel like I'm in the club in the first place. I feel like such a p-ssy most of the time. I feel surrounded by men and constantly reminded how I don't measure up. When I drive, I"ll see all the men drivers being so naturally masculine. I hear the men dj's on the radio. I'll be at the grocery store and I'm so hyper-aware of the male shoppers, and I'm so f-cking self-conscious of whether I appear manly, of what others might be thinking of me. I hate this. I hate feeling like that. I'm middle-aged and feeling self-conscious like some teenager.

At what point do you grow up and feel like a man? I'm such a Mr. Rogers (from PBS) type--but I don't know anyway else to be. I can't help who I am. People say I'm a nice guy, that I'm a gentle guy and kind--I just constantly feel like I don't measure up to the masculine standard.

Growing up, my dad always pointed out to me any guy who was handsome, or was built really good. (He's married to his second wife, but I've always worried about his sexuality.) So I always felt like I was put in my place because I wasn't that handsome, or muscular. On a couple occasions he'd tell me I was a 'fem.' All the boys teased me growing up--and of course the number one put down for boys to use against each other is 'fag.'

I'm happily married (most of the time). I feel completely heterosexual. But then again, I have a very low sex drive, and that's affected by my meds anyway, so I'm not the typcial man who always wants sex.

Ugh, I just don't know what to think in my brain. It's just so pervasive that I don't measure up. . .

if you were a woman scott, i'd give you a hug and tell you everything is going to be alright.... even well... have to think of something different then.....

growing comes to mind..... imo, if im not dead, i can still grow..... ive known of people who had deathbed revelations.. so, growing continues all thru life ....

you measured yourself... not up to me to say accurate or not... honest is what id say about it.. even brave...

you are ready to start...

i still say the wisest words a woman ever gave are that a guy is sexy when he does stuff... there's youre sexy page..

what did Dad tell me? .... seems like work was mandatory, so ive worked...

he said honoring women is important... so, ive tried to honor women......

learning and growing.... maybe im slow, maybe im fast, maybe we study for years and then it all falls into place one day...

self respect matters... one story i remember is about the truckers on the highway... they'll spend $300 to make those truck wheels shine.....

i had a friend, it was his work, buffing truck wheels .... he said they do it because 'they care that much about their profile' ... i swallowed those words whole....

learning continues.... 44, am i a man yet? didnt go to war... was peace time then...... feel an allegience tho to my family and my country....

want my son to be proud of his Dad... like i was proud of my Dad... so i work at htat... i try to improve at my moral behavior because others see... children especially concern me..... things like loyalty and truth and fairness matter to me and i express it more often these days..

i take care of my mom, im a loving brother, im an estranged father... i combine all this into one and accept it.... its me.....

it hasnt always been like this for me...... learning and growing....

Scott, if you find altering your definition of masculine doesn't work and you absolutely must measure up to concepts drilled into you earlier in life, why not just pick a couple and do them? Maybe if you had just a couple activities that ward off this feeling you might be able to do them during insecure moments.

An easy and fun (and very manly) activity is to go to a gun range and shoot a gun. You don't have to buy a gun; they'll rent you one for a short time. It's an odd activity for me but I do this now and again and it feels very manly. Another bonus is that you don't have to be athletic to do it.

Another one that works for me is to create some angry music. Really aggressive stuff. For me this cultivates a "I don’t' give a ***** what you think" attitude while also feeling a sort of bad boy rebel vibe.

Paintball. This can be harder to arrange as you need other people but shooting others and getting shot is pretty butch.

Go camping. Not cushy resort camping but like no bathrooms, hike to your campsite type camping. I personally hate this but it works in the macho guy category.

Develop a friendship with a particularly masculine guy and do whatever he's doing. He wants to go play racquetball, join him. Who cares if you suck? The goal is to feel like one of the guys.

Change your own oil. Getting under a car, on purpose, is very male. Get some grease under the fingernails and then don't get them immediately manicured. This is another activity I can't stand but any automotive work I've attempted has made me feel very manly (despite ending in disaster and usually causing additional repairs I didn't intend).

So, I dunno, this is sort of a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach but a couple really manly activities may alter how you see yourself.

Cyran0

Ive always thought of myself as a non manly man as well. For me, while i dont enjoy playing sports i do watch them on tv. For me thats good enough. I know nothing about cars or a million other stereotypical manly things but i know some things about baseball or football. Find one thing you think is manly that you can enjoy. Just keep an eye out for something and you can find it.

Some things need to grow on you like mold to enjoy. When i had friends, i noticed that the stuff they made me watch/do eventually grew on me. For a totally non manly example my niece used to make me watch Cats on vhs several years back over and over again. I hated it at first and inwardly groaned every time she put it in but eventually i started looking forward to one song that stunk the least. Then more repetition and i liked that song and found another i didnt hate. It grew and grew and right before she got sick of it and stopped watching it i actually liked watching the show. Go figure

my gramma kept this poem around the house... i didnt understand it all growing up... i like to re-read it from time to time...

IF - Rudyard Kipling

If

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

I really like that nowhere.

Cyran0

Thanks, guys, for the sensitive and supportive responses. I was afraid someone would make fun of me. . .Liked the poem. And Cyrano, you're cool--it would be so unlike me to go to a shooting range but what the hell, I think I'll go do it. Might be liberating.
Thanks again.

I hope you have fun. And yeah, it's not something anyone would expect me to do either but every once in awhile it's a nice release.

Cyran0

Ok,

Im going to be the odd man out here .... What is wrong with being who we are? where does it say in the book of life that we have to act a certain way ... My philospohy is that as long as we are true to ourselves then that is where the happiness should derive from

Why should I need to act a certain to prove that I am a man .. To me its sounds like conformity .... Are we ever going to be truly happy if we conform to the view of society .

well thats my spill even though contraversal to the opinion of this thread it is mine and i will own it



David

someones got to break the mold Tymber... you're ok man....

I feel like a man when my wife slaps me for peeing all over the toilet seat because I refuse to lift the lid...........

I kn ew i would get ur support Nowhere

thanks for being there when i needed u to be


this place is getting whacked by the day though imho

ive felt something too.... we need good positive vibes like you have tho to help us hang on....

Tymber--I'm not saying I feel like I should conform to society's standard. I just feel like I'm not very masculine, like I'm not in the club. I guess what I should be shooting for is self-acceptance. It's a big struggle. I know it futile to compare myself to others. . .but it's an automatic thought process I can't seem to stop. I feel like everyone else must be aware that I don't measure up either because growing up it was made very clear to me by all the other boys, family, media, that I didn't measure up. I don't know how to get these thoughts out of my head.

And Bryan peeing all over your toilet seat--so a 'real man' is someone who is inconsiderate of those he lives with? Is that what you're saying? I suppose you're just being good-natured and silly. See, I see guys being naturally goofy with each other. . .I don't know how to do that. My first reaction was "you're a jerk" for posting that, but on further reflection it just points out that I think too much and you're just fine for who you are and again I don't fit in.

scott... i at first reacted the way you aaid to brian..... then, like you did, i thought about it again...

i wonder if a lot of guys have had 'issues' with the toilet seat?

i say ya gotta go sometimes and ya just do it, cause, if you dont... well..... sometimes timing does matter, right?

and standards kinda suck imo... but, i mean... being friendly isnt the worst standard to have... it can be the most vulnerable tho.... imo

why the hell do you think you dont fit in????

s'pose youre talking to me Brian? i have no issue with it.... my concern might be for friends...

no....it was meant for Scott88keys

ok... sorry...

no problem....by the way I like the tiger pic.....such big paws