[pinwheel27]

Originally Posted by CJR520

That's my daughter, but it could be other things also. We have been going through this since she was a young child, and she is 42 now. I feel for you, and her family. My daughter has used everyone in the family, and has no where else to go now.

You mention it could be other things also...like what, if I may ask?

[Mouse_]

I'm hesitant to get involved when I read posts wanting to label someone with narcissistic disorder. Especially reading such comments as having to deal with it since they were a child, makes me think, can a child be born narcissistic? I mean apart from the normal state of narcissism we are born into? I wonder at times if perhaps the pattern is continuing into the child's adulthood? The family only seeing the child as "using" the rest of the family when infarct a child will of course need to "use" family as thats what children do until they mature and learn that others are people too, but to expect that from a child, well is pretty near-sighted and narcissistic in itself? Perhaps if there was real genuine family concern, one perhaps would want to look at ways to help the family member rather than just label them? Or are they at a stage where they themselves don't know what to do, are unable to think through any more? Or where they always at a stage where they were tired of the family members wants and needs and didn't want to even begin to think through issues with the family member as they arose? I get the impression a lot of people want to be thrown the narcissistic label like a life belt and then they can claim "victim status" and fill secure in their own minds they were the ones being done too and not the ones that did too also? Perhaps we all in this together and more compassion and understanding may change the pattern that I see repeated often. Of course this are only my own personal feelings on the matter, some who have a genuine interest in wanting to understand another may agree, or others that have no real altruistic desire will just dismiss all of what I say, because it suits them for it to be like that.

[CJR520]

In our case, it was figured out at her age of 42 years old. Our son was nothing like this and was a victim. I understand what you are saying and what it may look like, but this is not the case. There were professionals involved many years back. By other problems, I meant maybe medical that could cause bad behaviour. Hormones, diabetic, many others.

[Mouse_]

Originally Posted by CJR520

years old. Our son was nothing like this and was a victim.

Perhaps theres a clue there? We are each individuals and our behaviour as children can be "scripted"? I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for, and I hope your daughter also recieves the help she needs, but alas some people are so badly disturbed that the help is never accepted, as trust has been badly eroded over the yrs, Fortunately for me, I recieved the help and insight and compassion that was needed.

[pinwheel27]

With my situation, my neice grew up in a different part of the US and just recently I have the opportunity to get to know her. Within a few months I noticed a personality disorder and started to do research to which lead me to this site. I and not familiar with personality disorders nor know who to talk to so I can see if I can get help for my neice. Just seeing what I have seen in the past, I just know I would have to have all the facts, and find the right words to tell her that I would like to help her without getting into a fight.

[CJR520]

I don't think any of us has the perfect answer. Certain personality disorders can certainly make life miserable for the person who has the disorder, and their families. We all just have to do the best we can.

[pinwheel27]

Honestly, I do not remember meeting anyone with this kind of personality. Yes there are many different type of personalities out there. We see these personalities at work, shopping, almost anywhere. We learn how to talk, or work, to get along with others. I am not trying to 'label' my neice. What I am trying to do is to see or find forum or a site that can help me , or guide me in a direction of where I might get help for her. Of course without any fights with her. In some ways, I am afraid of her, but mostly I am afraid for her (hope that makes sence).

[CJR520]

I am also afraid for my daughter, but she is 42, and I can no longer run to her house 40 minutes away every time she gets in trouble. It only makes me miserable and things never change. She now has a bachelors degree in social work. A couple of weeks ago she told her Mennonite friend that she was not going to work because she would have to pay back her student loans. She would just take more classes to avoid paying the money. The story of her life!! At this age, she has never worked long enough at a job to get insurance because she can't get along with anyone. She is begging food off of this friend already for the summer. This week, I cut off my relationship with this Mennonite lady because my daughter is using her to tell me what is going on. I like her, but I don't need to hear any more nasties about my daughter. The last thing she did was end up with about 1,000. dollars worth of things from and elderly persons house near her. The whole Mennonite community is buzzing about it where she lives. By cutting off with this woman, I won't hear about it any more. One day my daughter will end up in jail doing this. I hate it!!!

[GrayNess]

Originally Posted by pinwheel27

Honestly, I do not remember meeting anyone with this kind of personality. Yes there are many different type of personalities out there. We see these personalities at work, shopping, almost anywhere. We learn how to talk, or work, to get along with others. I am not trying to 'label' my neice. What I am trying to do is to see or find forum or a site that can help me , or guide me in a direction of where I might get help for her. Of course without any fights with her. In some ways, I am afraid of her, but mostly I am afraid for her (hope that makes sence).

With NPD, there are numerous forms of it, not only the classical one of someone being very grandiose. I myself have both NPD and APD, however, I'm not about appearing flashy to others, getting others' approval for whatever I do. I couldn't care less about that, I'm more about gaining power, control, manipulation, etc..., or perhaps that's just the APD speaking. I'm not sure entirely.

Chances are you've met people with NPD, APD, etc... already however it's not blatantly visible all the time as though they have a nametag saying "Hello, I'm [name] with [disorder(s)]".

If you want information about NPD, you can read up on some books (I wouldn't suggest Vaknin but that's my opinion), ask here or on other forums.

[Peace777]

My father is a narcissist. We have not spoken in almost two years now! He does call and leave messages, as well as texts, but I delete them right away and have never tried to contact him except to gain access to a lock box at a bank that had my possessions in it.

I remember all too well the smiling whenever he made me furious....I could not understand why my own father would enjoy making me so angry! He also stole all of my money for college- turns out he's never paid for anything in his life. Up until I was eight years old, his mother was supporting him financially, and after that he was borrowing money or my mom was working. She died when I was thirteen, and he took everything he could right before kicking me out of the house.

I had run away several times before, but he had always used his manipulating techniques to control me, even when I was away. I decided to stick it out until college. But one month before I began school, he "kicked me out." I had never been so grateful in all of my life.

It was very sad though, and still is, to know that I am not loved by him. Why did he choose to give me up?

He tried to make ammends, but I told him I wouldn't have anything to do with him until he sought help from a professional. He refused.

[babyfairyfifi]

Does anyone else know a Narcissist who clearly lacks all empathy but hotly disputes this , and claims to have masses of empathy?

My mother has NPD and has alienated everyone around her. At one point, last summer, she had successfully cut out everyone except her dog and her hired help .

She has damaged my father ( who has never had a relationship with another woman since divorcing 35 years ago) she has just buried her second husband ( who committed suicide after a very dramatic row with her) she stopped talking to her own mother 10 years before she died and told me to stop being silly when I was upset when she died, citing her reasons : Dead is Dead. She disowned her sister and two brothers, myself and her grandchildren. Only my 30 year old half sister remains as her sole source of Narcissistic supply ( in exchange for financial support).
I have had to consciously protect myself from wanting a relationship with my mother as I know it only leads to pain and drama. Unfortunately that means sacrificing my relationship with my sister too.

I'm sad to think she will die a very lonely and sad lady.

[Rohag]

Originally Posted by Babyfairyfifi

I have had to consciously protect myself from wanting a relationship with my mother as I know it only leads to pain and drama.

I, unfortunately, can relate to this. A time came when it became necessary to act in defence of my family, myself, and oddly enough, in what may have been the best interests of my mother.

[CJR520]

As time goes by, I am getting used to my daughter not being around, and not seeing our grandson, who will be nine soon. Her first child was a calm little boy who would call us and cry and cry, and want to talk to Papaw when his Mom got crazy and controlling. Her second, the eight year old, has been crazy since birth, crying and running and out of control. The stepsons she has have been nothing but trouble because she was really angry and horrible with them. One of them has been in prison twice. The first child is now living and has a child with a woman older than him who had two children already. We have tried to help him out at the start, but to no use. They live in a horrible and dirty, dirty place, and just don't care. The kids jump on the furniture and it is all broken down to the place where you can't even sit on it without springs poking you. The kids tore down the curtains and they just hang lopsided. The last time we were there, there were two lab pups running around peeing and pooping on the floor, and the baby was walking through it, dropping food on the floor, and picking it up eating it. The place is too small and they just don't care. The young woman stays home with the kids, who all three have different fathers, and does nothing . I told hubby that I can not take looking at it any more, and just can't go visit. This is a result of a mother who is narcissistic and controlling. My son in law is so scared of my daughter, that he just is passive and has let her abuse his sons, and hers. I just stay away.

[Rohag]

Even getting used to the separation, that's a heartbreaking situation, CJR520. When did you realize your daughter suffered from NPD?

[CJR520]

I realized what is really going on when my daughter started college. I was really in favor of her schooling and urged her on. What a mistake! She is worse than ever, and bragging and bragging about herself like there is no one else in the world as important as her. The lies continue, but are getting bigger because of her education. Social Work puts her in the perfect place to use people, get things for free, just like she did me and many others. I fear for what will happen to others, but I have no control over what goes on. It is very embarrassing to hear about her from others and to know that they believe every word she says. I do miss the good part of her, but I always end up paying for things for her and her kids, and being used. I am done with that, she knows it, and doesn't want contact. She will have to work full time for the first time in all these years, and pay off her college, and it is a big shock to her, I am sure. She is telling others that she doesn't know how she is going to pay off these loans. "Get a job".

[Rohag]

Originally Posted by CJR520

Social Work puts her in the perfect place to use people...

Scary, truly scary. I'm sorry, CJR. I hope you can "practice effective self-care" in the midst of this.

[CJR520]

I have good, honest friends to rely on and talk to who have seen what has been going on throughout the years. I also have a mother with Alzheimers to care for and my Dad has had multiple strokes, and needs help, so I am definitely busy. We have help coming this winter to stay with them during the week, thank goodness, so I will have more free time with hubby and grandkids. Thanks for caring!!

[Barb K]

Hi - I am new here and not really sure how this works. I am just looking to share my situation and possibly gather some advice.
I am currently going through a divorce with someone a family counselor has described as having a narcissitic personality disorder. When I researched information on the disorder, it was an unbelievably accurate description of his personality. I have been married for nearly 20 years, unwisely staying together because I have 2 children. He has worked very hard at projecting himself as absolutely wonderful to the entire community. He volunteers for everything and loves the adoration he receives. He makes sure he is visable at all our children's events. Noone would ever think for a moment that he could possibly treat us so badly at home.
He would always "set me up" to look bad. For example, I am the head of an organization in our town and people would give him material or information to pass on to me, but he simply wouldn't. I would look foolish for not responding, etc. as he would always claim he gave me the information. There are many more examples.
He becomes particularly disturbed when I lose weight and does everything in his power to make people believe I am having an affair. A few years ago, he bugged my house, car and phone, and hired people to follow and film me. The scary part was, I was never happier in my entire marriage, because he was taking me out to dinner, shopping with me, enjoying sex for the first time in many years, etc. I had no clue what he was doing behind my back. Everything came to light when he contacted a coworker's wife and said I was having an affair with her husband. He did that even after his detectives said that I most definately was not. We started into counseling, and then I found an application for a handgun permit. The counselor at that time said he either needed to go away for intense treatment or she was going to the authorities because she was concerned for my safety. He went away to the Caron Foundation for treatment. I took the leap of faith and stayed with him because he said he truly knew he was abusive, much like his dad. The "honeymoon" did not last long. Flash forward to now. Once again, I decided to lose weight and get healthier. He was definately planting seeds all over the place that I was having an affair. He then proceeded to rub my underwear and bras with poison sumac. The pain and discomfort were unbelievable. He was telling my Mom that I must be cheating as it is so peculiar that I only have poison at my private areas. My therapist insisted that I get a restraining order and contacted a lawyer on my behalf. That was on October 2nd. A scary thing is that, once again, guns come in to play. He had relocated his hunting guns - about seven - to someone else's house - because he said it was crazy at our house. Wow, once again, he was angry and I was unaware what was going on in his head. Thankfully, he had to turn the guns over as a result of a search warrant. He still has not seen the children because, as the counselor's have put it, he is not taking responsibility for what he has done. He is so angry and doing things that cost so much money through the attornies. My kids and I feel like we are on an island by ourselves as noone really understands how he is. They only see Mr. Wonderful and hear his sob story of how he is just a victim and I am keeping the children from him. He is living with his brother and has now reconnected with his family that he did not bother with for years (of course, blaming me for that), which is concerning as they all grew up in the same dysfunctional household.
There is so much more, but I've obviously gone on too long now. Some of my questions revolve around the guns. Should I be frightened with the connection? It just seems that noone except the kids and I see the fear we have. Will he ever become civil enough to get through this divorce? After all, he should. He will be taking half my pension and 401K per the lawyer, and paying little child support, as he could take cash in his business and reported little earnings. I never really knew what kind of money he was making and he was very angry when I questioned anything.
Sorry, just looking for some advice....... My head is spinning.

[Rohag]

Hello & Welcome, Barb K!

In view of the poison sumac episode, I believe you must regard the guns as a real threat. (I hate to use the word "must," but here I believe it warranted.)

As a narcissist, your husband is probably feeding off your fear and humiliation and may want to prolong that situation. Nevertheless, he's shown a willingness to hurt you physically; if he thinks he's squeezed all the "narcissistic supply" out of you he can, he may not hesitate to dispose of you.

Please get the authorities involved and obtain expert legal counsel. "Better safe than sorry."

[Barb K]

Thanks for your thoughts. I do have a call in to my attorney. It just frightens me because the prosecutor's office is notifiying him that he is entitled to have his weapons returned. I sometimes feel that only my kids and I know how scary he is. I guess that is why I am reaching out to this forum for people that understand.