[MuseumGhost]

Hugs, pyramid, hon...I'm not a diagnosed sufferer, but am just here reading about what people endure as a result of this disorder.

I would suggest getting some support and counselling for yourself. You're dealing with an exceedingly difficult situation here, and possibly even an escalating and dangerous one.

Local mental health organizations, and especially Women's shelters, are often set up to help provide assistance in situations like yours.

I hate the thought of you and your grandchildren being exposed to and harmed by this type of an individual. His situation might be very complex---and you've got better odds of getting support for yourself than you do of seeing him seeking out help on his own.

[SoulSurvivor]

Hi all - there's interesting discussion. I'm not on the NPD spectrum, but am on the flip side of the coin as a (recovering) co-dependent. Just like Echo and Narcissus, the narcissists from my past and myself fit together perfectly.

As a non N, and relationship and friendship partner of many folks on the NPD spectrum, I can offer a slightly different point of view that hopefully is helpful?

Speaking from my experience and learnings/professional help, ladies and gentlemen can lie anywhere along a wide spectrum. We all have some narcissitic tendencies of course. Some folks have a kind of "healthy" narcissism, some might be further along with a bit of "unhealthy" narcissism which doesn't mean that they necessarily affect anyone else besides themselves or sometimes they do, some folks display a large spectrum of BPD symptoms, some folks would call themselves a narcissist or BPD demonstrating the symptoms described in the most current DSM, some may be further along and lean towards malignant and/or sadistic narcissism and then others go all the way toward the sociopath side.

Some folks affect others and may use them, and some do not. Some function on a higher level and some on a lower level. Some are more aware of themselves and some have buried things very very deeply and may not always be consciously aware. Some are covert and some are overt. Some are quiet and some are bubbly and charismatic. Some hurt others on purpose which gives them enjoyment and others do not at all. Some people may misuse or overuse the term as well. There's just such a diversity, and it's even more complex because we're all individuals and cannot simply be pigeon holed and categorized so simply.

My experiences have led me to believe that in no way does narcissist/NPD=bad or evil person. I have never observed an automatic correlation, and I do believe the name unduly gets a bad rap from the get-go. Just as we all suffer with our own maladies, so do the NPD folks, from my experiences. Kind of like a coping mechanism because of difficulties from their family of origin or perhaps some trauma or abuse. I feel closely related in that sense as a co-dependent who went through the same thing but adopted a different unhealthy coping mechanism....

I suspect, as always, wether someone has an identified mental illness or not, if they are harming you or others in any way, you must take care of yourself and those in need of your help first. That's really not something that only applies with NPD folks because not everyone hurts others, and other mental illnesses and folks without an identified mental illness can do the same. Therefore, in my experience, that's not a clear identifier of a narcissist.

The folks I was with who ended up being the most severe and malignant narcissists were often covert and very hard to identify, especially for folks without prior experience. They can wear many masks and they can have tricks up their sleeves that you might never have imagined. Many stories and articles are written about people who were married to a narcissist or have narcissistic family members or friends that they didn't come to understand for years, sometimes decades. Some folks I know who are on the spectrum are nothing like that, with dark whitty senses of humour and won't hesitate to set you in your place. lol

The only thing that I can honestly say about helping someone identify folks with NPD if they don't tell you themselves or maybe don't know it themselves, is simply - your gut feel. The false self is presented. Especially if you're a sensitive-type person, you listen to yourself and pay attention to your deep inner feelings, and it's amazing how many times it's right. Something might not feel quite right, maybe a little twitchy feeling, something might feel just a little out of place, might feel like a piece of the puzzle is missing, something might just irk you or nag a wee bit at the back of your brain - if that makes any sense!?! Lol This may or may not happen immediately, but always seems to happen as more and more time passes. I'm sure folks will often tell people to listen to their guts anyways, so it's best to do anyways in all situations.

Hopefully that's helpful in some form for folks? I myself am always learning more and more about myself and my community around me, so take my experiences with a grain of salt.

[NothingPeopleDo]

Originally Posted by SoulSurvivor

Hi all - there's interesting discussion. I'm not on the NPD spectrum, but am on the flip side of the coin as a (recovering) co-dependent. Just like Echo and Narcissus, the narcissists from my past and myself fit together perfectly.

As a non N, and relationship and friendship partner of many folks on the NPD spectrum, I can offer a slightly different point of view that hopefully is helpful?

Speaking from my experience and learnings/professional help, ladies and gentlemen can lie anywhere along a wide spectrum. We all have some narcissitic tendencies of course. Some folks have a kind of "healthy" narcissism, some might be further along with a bit of "unhealthy" narcissism which doesn't mean that they necessarily affect anyone else besides themselves or sometimes they do, some folks display a large spectrum of BPD symptoms, some folks would call themselves a narcissist or BPD demonstrating the symptoms described in the most current DSM, some may be further along and lean towards malignant and/or sadistic narcissism and then others go all the way toward the sociopath side.

Some folks affect others and may use them, and some do not. Some function on a higher level and some on a lower level. Some are more aware of themselves and some have buried things very very deeply and may not always be consciously aware. Some are covert and some are overt. Some are quiet and some are bubbly and charismatic. Some hurt others on purpose which gives them enjoyment and others do not at all. Some people may misuse or overuse the term as well. There's just such a diversity, and it's even more complex because we're all individuals and cannot simply be pigeon holed and categorized so simply.

My experiences have led me to believe that in no way does narcissist/NPD=bad or evil person. I have never observed an automatic correlation, and I do believe the name unduly gets a bad rap from the get-go. Just as we all suffer with our own maladies, so do the NPD folks, from my experiences. Kind of like a coping mechanism because of difficulties from their family of origin or perhaps some trauma or abuse. I feel closely related in that sense as a co-dependent who went through the same thing but adopted a different unhealthy coping mechanism....

I suspect, as always, wether someone has an identified mental illness or not, if they are harming you or others in any way, you must take care of yourself and those in need of your help first. That's really not something that only applies with NPD folks because not everyone hurts others, and other mental illnesses and folks without an identified mental illness can do the same. Therefore, in my experience, that's not a clear identifier of a narcissist.

The folks I was with who ended up being the most severe and malignant narcissists were often covert and very hard to identify, especially for folks without prior experience. They can wear many masks and they can have tricks up their sleeves that you might never have imagined. Many stories and articles are written about people who were married to a narcissist or have narcissistic family members or friends that they didn't come to understand for years, sometimes decades. Some folks I know who are on the spectrum are nothing like that, with dark whitty senses of humour and won't hesitate to set you in your place. lol

The only thing that I can honestly say about helping someone identify folks with NPD if they don't tell you themselves or maybe don't know it themselves, is simply - your gut feel. The false self is presented. Especially if you're a sensitive-type person, you listen to yourself and pay attention to your deep inner feelings, and it's amazing how many times it's right. Something might not feel quite right, maybe a little twitchy feeling, something might feel just a little out of place, might feel like a piece of the puzzle is missing, something might just irk you or nag a wee bit at the back of your brain - if that makes any sense!?! Lol This may or may not happen immediately, but always seems to happen as more and more time passes. I'm sure folks will often tell people to listen to their guts anyways, so it's best to do anyways in all situations.

Hopefully that's helpful in some form for folks? I myself am always learning more and more about myself and my community around me, so take my experiences with a grain of salt.

Well said!!

[here today]

Originally Posted by SoulSurvivor

. . .
The folks I was with who ended up being the most severe and malignant narcissists were often covert and very hard to identify, especially for folks without prior experience. They can wear many masks and they can have tricks up their sleeves that you might never have imagined. Many stories and articles are written about people who were married to a narcissist or have narcissistic family members or friends that they didn't come to understand for years, sometimes decades. Some folks I know who are on the spectrum are nothing like that, with dark whitty senses of humour and won't hesitate to set you in your place. lol

The only thing that I can honestly say about helping someone identify folks with NPD if they don't tell you themselves or maybe don't know it themselves, is simply - your gut feel. The false self is presented. Especially if you're a sensitive-type person, you listen to yourself and pay attention to your deep inner feelings, and it's amazing how many times it's right. Something might not feel quite right, maybe a little twitchy feeling, something might feel just a little out of place, might feel like a piece of the puzzle is missing, something might just irk you or nag a wee bit at the back of your brain - if that makes any sense!?!

I tend to be more codependent/idealistic, too, though I could feel an NPD-ish aspect to myself before I became more fully aware of it.

I agree that the most severe and malignant are the covert types -- like my mother, grandmother, and aunts and myself to a certain extent. Even if it's not full-blown NPD, the way people defend against and retaliate against hits to their ego is much more insidious, to me, when it's covert.

I also agree about the importance of the gut feel. I "needed" to numb mine out as a child, so I didn't clue my female family members into the fact that I didn't trust them, which would have been an offense to their (caretaker) ego, which would have been "bad" for me -- meaning, I guess, that they would dump "bad"/shame on me. None of this very conscious for them, I believe. Still hurtful.

My father likely had full-blown NPD but it was NOT covert. Lots of things about him were problematic but never so hurtful and confusing as what I got from the others. Again, I also believe there is wide variation in how people with NPD behave and interact with others that I don't see the literature taking into account.

[ABeautifulMind5150]

Im living with a narcissistic boyfriend and it has destroyed me. It feels like im going crazy and i know im not. Im so very frazzled from his mental abuse. Please help

[Apoplectic INFP]

Is it just me, or do a lot more people exhibit narcissism in the world, than other personality disorders? It looks to me like its the most talked about personality disorder...

[Apoplectic INFP]

Originally Posted by ABeautifulMind5150

Im living with a narcissistic boyfriend and it has destroyed me. It feels like im going crazy and i know im not. Im so very frazzled from his mental abuse. Please help

A few things I need to find out:

1) Is he cheating on you and lying a lot?
2) How soon after your relationship began, did you decide to move in with him, or him you?
3) And lastly, do your friends and family generally approve of him?

I have lived with a narcissistic girl friend before. Nasty piece of work she. Certified liar

[GoneGirl711]

I am having such a hard time with the lack of empathy thing. I keep praying he will see how he has and is hurting me and regret it or show me some remorse. Anything...just show me something other than a cold callously sometimes psychopathic person..

Originally Posted by SoulSurvivor

My experiences have led me to believe that in no way does narcissist/NPD=bad or evil person. Just as we all suffer with our own maladies, so do the NPD folks, from my experiences. Kind of like a coping mechanism because of difficulties from their family of origin or perhaps some trauma or abuse.

Many stories and articles are written about people who were married to a narcissist or have narcissistic family members or friends that they didn't come to understand for years, sometimes decades.

The only thing that I can honestly say about helping someone identify folks with NPD if they don't tell you themselves or maybe don't know it themselves, is simply - your gut feel.

I have been hesitant to talk about this here but this is my struggle right now. When I am honest to the person I am in a struggle with about things that have been done that don't feel right--I am told I only feel this way because I have the mental problem. We both have problems. I didn't understand what was going on for decades. I only became interested in pyschological things after my attempt. Work and children has always been both of our focuses--
not worrying about our emotions or feelings. Having not dealt with or understood our issues and, more seriously, the fact that this person feels like the problems in our family are totally the result of my MI makes me unhopeful about our situation. I have been in crisis for days and days but am keeping it together (will not make a stupid move again) because there are many in my life I will never abandon. Not even sure I can abandon the narcissist (I hate this word ). It tears me apart. I would be dead if he hadn't called 911 when he found me.

[Apoplectic INFP]

Originally Posted by TooMuchPain

what would be the first clue that someone might have this disorder? Is it their obvious charm or their less obvious desire to manipulate and control you... (or something else entirely?) How can I recognize people who have this disorder before I get taken again as I have been before?

Do you always end up with a narcissist? That being the case, perhaps you may have codependency issues which you need to see a specialist for. Maybe.

At any rate, narcissists seem to have one thing in common regardless of race, gender, or creed; They dont respect people's boundaries. Do not allow anyone to rush intimacy with you, no matter how charming they may be.

[Apoplectic INFP]

Originally Posted by ABeautifulMind5150

Im living with a narcissistic boyfriend and it has destroyed me. It feels like im going crazy and i know im not. Im so very frazzled from his mental abuse. Please help

Dump him forthwith and avoid his supporters. Also don't expect any explanation or apologies from him; some things are best left unsaid lest you should be charmed and roped in for more narcissistic abuse. Go kick butt!

[diane7260]

Hello
I don't know where to start, so I'll just jump in. I came to this site to find support for myself, because I have come to believe my 36 year old daughter has Narssessisitic Personality Disorder.

Her situation was a perfect storm to develop the disorder. Her father was narcissistic and she was everything to him. Of course, because she was important to him, she had to be important to everyone, in the world. This went beyond the normal father loves and is proud of his daughter. And me, I just went along with it all to keep the peace. At 3, her father had a massive brain hemorrhage.

Raising her was like constantly walking on egg shells. It was so difficult to correct her in anything, cause cause she would perceive it as a threat as to how she saw things.

Now she is 36 years old. She gets so enraged for what I see as nothing. She got mad, for example, cause I did housework. I was ignoring her. There is no defending myself to her or rationalizing with her. And once things die down and she needs something or just wants attention, she comes to me like nothing happened. This is how it's been

I physically can't do this anymore. I have heart failure and this has too many devastating effects on me. And I can not go on.

Now I know, and understanding, my responsibility in all this. And I have allowed this to happen partly because of the guilt. So please don't go pointing fingers and blaming. I am pass that now. I have put up boundaries -small ones but boundaries and she is not happy with me. I know she is totally unhappy with herself and her life. She has a mega ego but no self esteem and I love her so much.

help?

[Worriedmama]

My ex has npd, and I am concerned that my teenager son is showing signs. He creates lies and believes them. My kids always feel a need to check in with their Dad 15 times a day. How can I help my kids

[Stewieleiws]

Hi I'm new to this forum but I really need some help. I've been inactive relationship for nearly 2 years with a man I now believe has NPD. I've read loads of stuff about it and all the things mentioned sounds a hell of a lot like him and the way he behaves but I need to be sure because I don't know if it's just plain old jealousy and insecurity or real narcissism.
He's very jealous and true to control me even down to how I wear my clothes , I'm not allowed to talk to certain men at work ( we work together) he's always accusing me of cheating , he doesn't like me going out without him , he belittles me and makes out I'm incapable and that I can't manage with out him. He believes he's the best at everything and talks over me if I'm talking in crowed . When he sees I'm upset it's like he looks right through me and doesn't seem to care. He looks down on some of the management at our work place too and I think he feels threatened by other men in power or attractive men. There is lots more but it would fill this entire page !!
I want to end the relationship but I feel awful because he's done a lot for me financially. Please advise if I'm right or being unfair. Thank you

[Johnhugh]

I got involved with someone, who I ended up renting a house with. I even dolce my own house to move closer to be with her. She has a daughter, and I do too, so we would spend most of our relationship doing parent days out. Very few romantic times. We were together for 2 and a half years. At the beginning she was very lovely, put in a lot of effort, even paying for everything, including an expensive holiday abroad. Like paradise.
That was in the early months. Lots of holding hands, sex and relationship stuff. We even got engaged within 6 months. But she ‘lost’ the ring. (I don’t believe her) and I stupidly got another. A year later. She would not Wear it on her left hand. Oh so many lies and manipulation.
But she would disappear for days. And wasn’t honest about where she was. She had an ‘illness’ she told me that required her to go for regular hospital overnight stays. I never knew how much it was true. She would use this for the duration of the relationship as a way to go off radar. I never once could accompany her to the appointment.
She wouldn’t let me. Always gave an excuse.
I became her childcare on a Day a week when working from home and regular times over the weekends, while she worked or did ‘hospital’
We stopped having sex after about 6 months of the relationship. She wouldn’t let me touch her. She didn’t like holding hands, cuddling...was always on her phone. I couldn’t complain about it or I was ‘controlling her’.
Then only about twice again did we have sex in the last 2 years.. So the last year of relationship we had it only once.

Possible trigger:

And then, she got pregnant from that one time. (For the second pregnancy in our 2 years together) (third if you count the one she had and didn’t tell me about - I saw an appointment on her emails about it. Shocking!
6 months later I was made to pay for an abortion,

for ‘specialists’ to be present in the room for her condition. Over £2,000. I to this day feel conned from then alone. Many other instances of her taking my money. Thousands. Paying her car off. Paying half for furniture which she paid and got receipt for.
She slept in ‘our house’ at most a day or two a week. Living at her families house down the road, leaving me alone. and not video chatting. Never. Sometimes phone calls, but usually texts.
When she stayed, she let me ‘massage’ her. That was it. Never anything more and never have anything back. Complete u- turn from the beginning. That was our relationship. Me the massager.
She would display so many of the narcissist symptoms.
Lying about where she was. Gaslighting me. . Making me think I was ‘controlling’ or being negative for ever asking where she was. Or challenging her.
She would be on the phone to me, and come off, saying something came up and ‘I’ll call you back’
And never doing it. It happened often too when we were due to meet to go out. Last minute cancelling. And I let her use me like this. And I have sane mind! I was addicted to her. She would shower me and anyone close to her with gifts. Spending hundreds. But that would be my money in the end. I realised.
She never introduced me to her best friends. Only one friend. But that was once.
I did meet her family, but just assume they were all part of her narcissist ways.
She would expect me to drive her and pick her up, always. She had a licence and a car, but said it made a noise/ excuses why she didn’t drive it.
She had another man friend, again who she didn’t introduce to me. Kept him separate. Said he was like an uncle. Close to her family. The child’s godfather. He would give up work to do anything for her. Creepy
And I would be expected to do the same. Often. It was like she would wait for an important event, then phone me up just before to either get me to cancel or make me feel so guilty if I didn’t. And then o would have the aggressive side to her.
She stole money from me. She spent it on expensive designer goods on herself and family.

Possible trigger:

Her ex boyfriend 6 months prior to me killed himself. And whilst together another ‘admirer’ attempted suicide.

I could never confront or talk about these Things with her. Or money. She would sometimes get angry and violent/ using language I had never heard come from a woman. And punch me. Leaving me with throbbing arm. And almost scared of her in case the rage would come out. Yet when with others, she would be sweet and little girl like almost.
If I complained she would say I was ‘weak’ or something similar.
I learnt how to keep her sweet.

Possible trigger:

She had self harm marks all up her arm. From her past where she had been raped as a teenager she said.

And he cut all her hair off. So she always went for hair extensions to replace. A damaged person from her past in lots of ways.

But a few final straw moments happened. Some of her lies caught up with her.
I spoke to a relationship helpline and when I said all this to them, they said ‘sounds like a narcissist’ . Leave her. Block her. And go ‘no contact’. Within 24 hours I was gone.
And only emailed her a week later to tell her that I was posting the keys back. never replied since. Actually we had argued a lot and she would say ‘we aren’t getting on, you need to get your own flat’ so she actually said this when I was moving out. So I said ‘yes ok’ which took her by surprise. I was her fee childcare, free rent, free car ride....
She has tried emailing me, posting photos of her with my daughter as her profile pic on social media for me to see (I have looked, but plan on going fully no contact- total blocks and try to forget. so not even peaking, but I wanted to see what she was up to, as fear for revenge for me daring to leave. I called the police to be aware when I was moving as when she found out she threatened sending her dad out.)

She was beautiful. She was much younger than me. And made me feel special to be with her.
There would have been too much to change of her to make it work. She still expects me to go back.
This has now been 3 weeks. But she had completely manipulated me, and lied about so much.
I have been getting through this with my close friends. anyway, I am restarting my life without her. It is hard. I was very involved. But it wasn’t healthy.

[bloat]

Hi,
I'm positive my female partner is high in the covert NPD spectrum. We've been together 3 years and have a toddler. I would run screaming in horror if it weren't for my daughter. I've given it much thought, and I know I would give my life for my child.

It seems everyone says to bail the narc, but I cannot leave my child to the cycle of abuse, since mothers almost always get majority custody in most states.

I am so worried about when my daughter becomes independent. That's when the heavily manipulation begins. I feel I need to be there as a counter-balance to this covert abuse.

I have a resilient personality and have done a decent amount of research on NPD, and believe I can weather the abuse until my daughter is old enough to make decisions in the eyes of the courts.

Any thoughts or advice?

Thanks!

[AdultDaughterOfNarc]

Hi, was wondering if you know where I can find the discussion between the 2 Ns?
I’d really appreciate it!

Something I have found useful was in another thread here... a discussion between 2 N's.

[Buffy01]

Originally Posted by DocJohn

Welcome to a safe place to discuss narcissistic personality disorder and related issues:

Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Symptoms & Treatments

Enjoy,
DocJohn

Thank you for this information.

[Repentive]

there is reason to believe that I'm a narcissist. I regret when I hurt people. I am in the process of overcoming this maladaptive way of life. I am deeply regretful of all the sorrow I've caused. I guess I am seeking compassion to support me in overcoming.

[Repentive]

Originally Posted by Mouse_

I'm hesitant to get involved when I read posts wanting to label someone with narcissistic disorder. Especially reading such comments as having to deal with it since they were a child, makes me think, can a child be born narcissistic? I mean apart from the normal state of narcissism we are born into? I wonder at times if perhaps the pattern is continuing into the child's adulthood? The family only seeing the child as "using" the rest of the family when infarct a child will of course need to "use" family as thats what children do until they mature and learn that others are people too, but to expect that from a child, well is pretty near-sighted and narcissistic in itself? Perhaps if there was real genuine family concern, one perhaps would want to look at ways to help the family member rather than just label them? Or are they at a stage where they themselves don't know what to do, are unable to think through any more? Or where they always at a stage where they were tired of the family members wants and needs and didn't want to even begin to think through issues with the family member as they arose? I get the impression a lot of people want to be thrown the narcissistic label like a life belt and then they can claim "victim status" and fill secure in their own minds they were the ones being done too and not the ones that did too also? Perhaps we all in this together and more compassion and understanding may change the pattern that I see repeated often. Of course this are only my own personal feelings on the matter, some who have a genuine interest in wanting to understand another may agree, or others that have no real altruistic desire will just dismiss all of what I say, because it suits them for it to be like that.

I may well be a "covert" narcissist. It does seem like the whole world wants to "throw away" the NPD sufferer. I agree, some are so "toxic" that the only safe route for some is escape. However, since the occurrence of NPD is up to 5% should not there be some national stategy for reclaiming these troubled souls. I think I am redeemable, but when I read the majority of posts i feel so hopeless. I don't think an NPD sufferer chose this behavior originally, but it's like an addiction. He "reacts" with the pattern of behaviors he has learned reflexively. I wish I had the answer. Surely the government has invested into research for lesser problems.