Why are men the punching bags of society?

Where's the female privilege checklist?

1. I win custody of the children.

2. At divorce, I am entitled to my husband's money, etc.

3. I may hit men in public without fear of reprisal.

4. I may make sexist jokes without being labelled as sexist.

5. I can legitimately choose whether I want to have a career or not without affecting my chances of obtaining a partner.

My take on the subject is that at one time or another every person/ every sex is treated unfairly. Its not fair and its unjust but that is the way it is, until all people regardless of sex, money, or race learn to accept one another and treat others well.

I think it's awful they took such an honorable symbol and used it to harass men. I am glad you complained and got some action. Have things improved since she left and management has been informed of the hostile climate?

Sardean,

I apologize if I seemed unconcerned about what you've been through. I wasn't clear if dominated meant they were trying to control you, harass you, act superior to you, etc. OR if it simply meant there were more women in your workplace (since the workplace being dominated by women can also mean the latter). But you are right- when any group attempts to dominate another group, it is discrimination. I know it's difficult not to let these things get to us- and you have every right to be upset- but try not to feel like a worm just for being a man. Her hate is the problem, not your gender.

Good for you, for reporting her! Glad you were taken seriously.

BiscuitTin,

Although I don't think men are the punching bags of society any more than women are- in fact, generally, I think women are beaten down more- I DO agree whole heartedly that men face discrimination and hate, like everyone else AND this should be acknowledged and fought. I also acknowledge that while I think women face more crap, it seems to be more acceptable in certain circles, for people to bash males than it does for them to bash women. It depends on where in the world you are, however. But yes, here in the U.S., I have noticed that it seems more accepted for people to verbally bash men. Yet, women are bashed also, recieve less pay, and more. Yet, you don't hear people complain as much about male bashing when it happens. They sort of turn a blind eye to it and don't take it as seriously in a lot of instances here. That I must admit, and that is NOT right. No degree of discrimination is okay. It's all serious, and it's all bad. Also, tolerating discrimination isn't okay. And belittling the victim for speaking out, or turning it around on them isn't okay, either. I saw that someone posted that people don't call other sexist for male bashing- ACTUALLY, I have. In grade and middle school my friend would make sexist and stereotyping remarks about men and I told her that her remarks were sexist.

Although I don't think people should feel bad about their gender, it hurts me to see the way, even the "good guys" seem to harbor some negative attitudes towards women or turn blind eyes to our plights at times. It hurts. I know it must hurt men to feel hated, disrespected, and belittled, as well. I'm white, and I have experienced racist remarks and attitudes before, but it seems like people think it's okay to make discriminatory remarks about caucasians, just like they think it's okay to make these remarks about men.

Basically, it was very common for men to discriminate against women for a long time- not all men, but the majority of them, I suppose. And it was culturally accepted. We were repressed and abused. There is still a lot of discrimantory behavior and attitudes towards women, especially in other parts of the world, but even in the U.S. there remains more of this than many people realize. Likewise, for a long time and in various parts of the world, whites have dominated other races and treated them poorly. I know discrimination against other races still remains- even in the U.S., but esp. in certain parts of the world. So now that other races and the female gender are gaining their own power, sometimes there is hate left over because of that past, BUT it does NOT justify that hate. Not all men are inherently bad and not all white people are inherently bad. The truth is, every gender and every race has commited horrible actions throughout history as a huge group (but not every individual in it), and as certain individual actions. But that doesn't make all of the people in that gender, race, or other group, bad. It is NOT okay to discriminate based on gender or race and that means ANY gender or ANY race. It is not okay to blame everyone or judge everyone of a group because of what certain other members of that group have done. Sexism is sexism, racism is racism- there is no such thing as "reverse" sexism or racism- it's all racism and sexism, plain and simple.

While I personally think women have it worse IN GENERAL, I admit, it SOME ways, men have it worse. Also, even if we do have it worse in general, it doesn't mean that men don't deserve sympathy for the areas in which they have it worse, AND it doesn't mean that good men don't deserve respect, AND even though I think women generally face more discrimination, it doesn't mean men don't face any, AND it doesn't mean that they don't have the right to complain about it, fight it, get upset about it, etc., AND it doesn't mean that we shouldn't care about what they are going through. By that same token, while I think other races face more discriminatory actions, I think caucasians get their fair amount of hate towards them, since I've known white people who hate themselves for being white (white guilt). Also, although I know I face less discrimination as a white person (though I'm female and got the crappy end of the gender stick there- more discrimination, biological crap, etc.), it doesn't mean that when I face discrimination, I deserve it, nor does it mean that I should be asked to suck it up. Since whites have gotten privelages and face less discrimination in general, it seems that if I speak out when someone is racist towards me, I'm seen as the whiney little white girl. I'm not trying to downplay the plight of others, nor say I have it worse than they do, or even as bad. I'm just saying, discrimination is harmful and hurtful, and it's not okay, even in smaller amounts. It's an unacceptable attitude that needs to be phased out, not laughed about and made light of, even if the degree is small. I was once told in class I wasn't as good of a person because I was white. None of the other white students said a word in their own defense. I was really hurt and upset because the teacher was a "friend" of mine. Also, I've seen people post to youtube videos regarding tanning, skin cancer, etc. bashing white people and even making light of, and joking about how we have greater skin cancer risks. Cancer isn't funny and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, especially not because of their race. That's SICK. There is hate out there for all races, all genders, and it's all deplorable.

I'd say you all get the same crap for speaking out as men- you are prob. seen as whiney little boys. It shouldn't be this way. I do realize others have it worse, but discrimination to any degree hurts and it's unacceptable. Besides, if we tolerate it, it will only get worse and then it will be a "big deal" clearly. Discrimination and prejudice are not acceptable against any race or gender, and when we tolerate them, we allow them to spread and gain power.

Trigger Warning!















I've worked mostly in 'female' workplaces . . . where the ratio is 3 females to 1 male . . .

In terms of being bullied in the workplace, my one experience was being bullied by women. I ended up not eating and cutting myself.

And then there was this other time when my female employer kept going on about how men can't multi-task and other rubbish. She wasn't liked by anyone, so I don't really care what she said.

I don't have a point as such, except that some people are idiots, and stupidity and evilness doesn't discriminate.

Wanted to add a confession:

Although I think sexism is wrong, I have to admit, sadly, while I hate people in general regardless of race or gender (humanity in general, SUCKS), I have been picking up some negative attitudes towards men. This has happened only in the last few years, but it's difficult to shake because I have seen so many men having the same actions, attitudes, etc. I have even seen these behaviors and attitudes in the best men I know- men that I thought were above such things. It hurts me to see it. It also makes me lose my confidence in men. *sighs* BUT with that said, I have some men that I really love, and in general, they are great guys. In some of the ways were they have the neg. action or attitude, I think they can improve, and might not even realize why the action or attitude is hurtful, misguided, etc., if someone merely sat down with them and talked to them about it None of us are perfect, but we can all improve. I also don't like for people to talk down to or mistreat the guys in my life because they are men- or for any other reason. Sorry if this reply was offensive. I'm just trying to share. I don't want to feel the way I do. I guess I'm just hurt and dissapointed about certain things. While I consider myself a feminist (and have since childhood), I also grew up thinking men and women were equals. I was called a man hater in highschool because I was a feminist, but I thought that was crazy, since I hadn't said anything hate filled about men. I hadn't put anyone down simply for being male. I loved some men- still do. And at the time, I didn't really have any neg. attitudes towards men, that I can recall. I don't know why hating anti-female sentiments made me somehow, a man hater. Go figure. The negative attitudes I'm picking up these days are things I'd like to get rid of. I know it's negative to think this way. Maybe the things that upset me are partially cultural things I'm noticing in males, that are caused by environment rather than genetics. I don't ASSUME all men fit the mold, though. I judge individuals as individuals.

Your pain is valid. My pain is valid. I don't know if this is true, but I've read somewhere that there is more differences on the genetic level, between two individuals of a gender than there is between the genders. In other words, men and women as groups, are more alike genetically, than two individual men are compared to one another, or then two individual women are compared to one another. I also read this was true for race. Does anyone know if this is accurate?

What kind of behaviours?

TRIGGER WARNING:



This includes the three letter s word, a reference to a kinky practice, and disrespectful attitudes towards women.

Could I PM it? I feel kind of uncomfortable posting some of this on the public forum.

Actually, I will say something here. A lot of it is more attitude and beliefs I've noticed in guys, or behavior they've admitted to, or admitted to being open to, than it is behavior I've witnessed. I will say one thing about the "good guys," and give one example. Basically, in some way, most men I know- even the "good guys"- hold some disrespectful attitude towards women, even if they are generally respectful. Here is one example of that:

There is a guy that struck me as being a nice guy, respectful, etc. He was a friend of mine and was also a mutual friend of several other friends of mine, including a lot of female friends. We felt respected by him, and he was always trashing other guys for being so disrespectful of women. But apparently he has an issue with "sl**s" or "wh**es"- what he calls women who have casual sex or who are promiscuous- even though he has had- and sometimes has now- casual sex, himself! The ol' double standard.

He told me something about giving a girl a ride, and I believe he said something about not wanting to give her a ride unless she slept with him, which I thought was a very disrespectful, uncaring, and offensive thing to think or say. I had thought he was a nice guy and it seemed to me he should have offered a woman in need a respectful ride for free (or for gas money, if needed) and not made her feel uncomfortable, unless he was scared for his own safety.

He also talked about her like she was a total tramp, and basically called her a s**t or a wh**e or something similar, even though he had been willing to sleep with her. He said if she wanted to act like one he was going to treat her like one- well, he said any woman who acted like one. To me, if you can't respect a woman any more than that, you should not have sex with her, because it would be very degrading. I asked him if he realized, if he sleeps with a lot of so called "wh**es," he is as big of a "wh**e" as he claims they are (there is no such thing, I pointed out as a "wh**e hopper"- it's just another word for "wh**e"), and that if he has sex with a woman, she isn't doing anything worse than he is, so he's no better than her. If he deserves any respect, so does she. And either way, she's not beneath him for it, at least, so he shouldn't act like he is.

I was really surprised to hear that from him. I seem to get something that disrespects women from every man I've ever known, even the best of them. I'm beginning to worry, they will all pull something like this out of their hat at some point- not necessarily this, but something that disrespects women. In general, they might be respectful, but there are one or two things that they say or do that just shock me and hurt me.

There is one man I've known- ONE- who might not have ever said anything disrespectful of women. I can't recall anything, at least. He was into BDSM, though, and though I know people might argue there is nothing wrong with it, I do have to wonder if, on some level, his desire to dominate in the bedroom was connected to some neg. feelings towards women.

kaika, i am not in any way diminishing that men suffer injustices too. maybe you didn't see what i posted before the list:

privilege is a complex concept and i'll be honest that i am still just learning about feminism. maybe this will help clarify:

(emphasis added) from don't women have female privilege?

the point is that it is patriarchal systems that have caused problems for women and men. women are not the only ones negatively affected by patriarchy but to imply that men have it worse than women on the whole is just not true when we look at the problems that occur in western society, let alone developing countries. are there instances where men face inequities that women don't? of course, and it's not right and they should stand up and fight it. i will be right there to back them up too. will they back me up and fight for equality for women? i can only hope they will, especially when they've experienced discrimination themselves. the feminism that i subscribe to isn't about women vs. men but women and men together fighting the injustices instituted by patriarchy.

Sorry to be negative, but I don't think men and women will stop thinking of and treating each other differently because each feels justified. I disagree on some of that, and other things I do think are justified, but I doubt it's going to change.

And, just to point out (briefly) where I stand, I feel men have it far better than women in most modern societies. Even the Mor Soue people, a matriarchal society in China, are being changed by western mens' perceptions of their society. More men travel there than in the past, believing that women are "easy" to get in bed with, but there's much more to their culture and that isn't true. But their practices are changing because of what tourism has done to them.

I've always been a feminist, and it's frustrating that you can't say you're a feminist without many people--including women--stepping back and assuming you hate men. I believe in equality, plain and simple. How to achieve equality, we feminists might differ between each other, but that's what a feminist is. If you believe men and women should be equal, even if you think feminism means hating men, well, guess what? You're a feminist.

I personnally think this thread has run its course
because now all that is being done is what you are complaing of
in the FIRST PLACE

I'll first state that I love people. Fullstop. People bashing goes on all over the place and it's not something that will ever stop. TV and the media in particularly will exaggerate this.

But I will add this. As a female, if I go to a garage, building site office, mens club, you can bet your life there will be a poster somewhere of a blond woman with big boobs hanging out. You wouldn't find pictures of men with their private parts hanging out.

Also, I'm from the UK, how many female prime ministers have we had? Only one and she was discriminated against all the way. And in ANY business you'll find that all the top jobs will go to men. It's always been that way.

None of us, whether male or female wish to be a punch bag or viewed as a sexual object. Fullstop.

BiscuitTin,

Just wanted to add that I think you are really brave for saying this. It takes a lot of guts to stand up for ourselves sometimes.

Biscuit 1 and 2 have changed in society. I do know some women who pay child support to the dads.

Lol....dominatrix dominated

Not really....I ended up getting fired because majority ruled. In this case it was the dominatrix women that formed the majority. The reason they gave me for the firing was inadequate performance.

I now have a lawsuit against them. My lawyer says it is a really good case.

It's possible that's changing, but I can think of many more. I'm Australian and we can't actually believe that 'alimony' exists over there.

In the news today:

A teacher was convicted of having sex with a 14 year old student and a 16 year old student.

The penalty? 2 years jail, all of it suspended.

Meaning if this teacher doesn't re-offend in the next 2 years, there will be no penalty.

The teacher is female. Could you imagine the outrage if this was a male teacher having sex with 14 year old girls?

I've gone off my original point, which is really just the portrayal of men in the media. It's accepted too often for my liking.

I compleatly agree that men are the main focus in adds and movies. I've seen so many adds that have shocked me and made me say if that was a woman the add would be banned.. there are different standards and I think is unaceptable but at the same time I think the problem is that men need to know its ok to make complaints.....If men never stand up and say unaceptable it will keep happening...on that I beleaive men are scared of being seen to be sexist...it feels like women are raised to beleaive that its ok to expect your husband to get a job and all the men things that they did in the past but they also are told that they should not let men do that to them if the man expected the women to traditional women things they would called sexist and abusive but when a women gets angry at the man for not making enough money or working too many hour an not helping with the house work and not fixing up the house thay are cheared on by other women...I really get sick of hearing my female friends complain about there partners like this i want to scream at them them to stop being sexist....people in glass houses should not throw stones......i dont expect my partner to work he want to work and he had too my pride and got down on him self when he could not make enough money but I always reminded him that we could get threw anything and he should not feel like less of a man. I dont pamper him when he not nice to me and dont expect to be pampered if I'm not nice to him it mutal respect......I never asked my partner to hand me his entire pay every week but he trusts me to do the right thing with the money he works so hard for.

I had a friend that had gotten her husband arrested for abuse but I just happened to be around when they got into another fight and he did not do anything to her she was hitting him over and over and threatening to call the police saying he was hitting her i was stunned after it was over she tryed getting me on her side i just told straight up if she had called the police I would have told the truth with in a week she threw me against a wall in anger and I back away from the friendship after that.

I cant honersty beleaive that if women can verbally abusive to other women so easily that also would not do that do men. While I know men are most of the time the stronger human and there fore the most likly to do real physical harm to women and men I beleive that there are plenty of women out there using children as weapons to get men to do what they want thay are manipulative and sneeky and quite capable of being verbally abusive and it has been said on many adds that verbal abuse is more damaging you can heal from physical stuff faster but when a persons self esteam is effected or mental state the person suffers for far longer. The biggest issues I have is not they have adds for abused women its that if that was add for men there would be people jumping up and down saying thats sexist. It should not matter if 100 women and only 2 men get abused the fact is it can happen and it should not be tolerated. Add s and slogan should say "violance is not tolerated not violance againt women ect it does not make sence.

there are plenty of place for women to help but where are places for men it does not make sence the least they could do is let the adds include the posabilty of voilance towards men. there needs to be that option to be fair to ALL humans.

Take it or leave it but the fact is
women are just turning the table o n men
for so long women have been seen as the "weaker" sex
oh you cannot do that you are a woman blah
so what if the tables have turned in our favour
for once that holier then thou attitude that
a woman cannot do the jobs some men do because
we are women so what if we find the antics of men funny.
At any rate you only need to take a good look at history
to see what I am saying is so,no one ever told a man he cannot drive a truck thats womens work nope

Just let it go every body does something that annoys
someone else that is why we are called human.

I don't see what table is being turned, exactly, as I don't recall this kind of media portrayal extending to women.

I think men are loathe to complain because then they would have to admit to feeling something about said ads.

I completely agree with this point, especially.

There is a campaign going on at the moment called "One in Three" which highlights that one in three domestic abuse victims are men. The rate is likely to be higher as men rarely report such cases. The campaign drew some ire from battered women groups.

I understand why there are ads talking only about violence against women in our society, but I also believe that it needs to be explained that violence itself is wrong.

Oh come now
woman have always been the butt
of mens jokes
"hey did you hear about the blonde that
went to the pub blah blah"
You cannot see what your eyes and mind is closed to
so yea I expect some cannot see
all the ads on t.v. that had a woman dressed in a bikini etc when it was not needed pfff or the great big b**bs like Pamela
woman are seen as nothing more then sex objects for the mans pleasure.

I agree with starrina ....

However two wrongs don't make a right .

But they certainly did do as she said and for many many years.