[little*rhino]

this isn't about anyone specific, this is a general trend i noticed here over time... and i do see it on other sites but it is really kind of out of hand here. i think that is because of the size of the site, the number of quizes and "helpful" tools.

i know how it feels to feel alone with a problem or issue and then find recognition among others with the same thing. i also know how it is to feel like something isn't right but not know exactly what and want answers.... online can be a great help that way, OR... for some, it can become a slippery slide into a lifetime of diagnosis "shopping" and jumping from one "answer" to another, never really getting better, never really finding out the root cause because the root cause is NEEDING A ROOT CAUSE. The hard truth in those cases is that there may or may not be a solid issue that needs attention other than the longing for a reason as to why they feel vaguely discontent and/or why their life isn't the way they think it ought to be. In short, it becomes a need to have a reason to explain why they are where they are or who they are... and from there it is a short jump to a reason to never address the real problems or hurdles.

When someone in this category finds a potential "answer" the results are predictable (and often baffling to people who know them) - they begin filtering their life story to fit the new diagnosis (whether or not they have been dx'd), they change how they act and speak to fit the newly researched terms and criteria and they seek out pockets of people with said condition with whom to form bonds and connections. The latter is most important because this is about trying on new diagnostic identities in a way, seeking something they feel is missing somehow and that sense of belonging is more important than any aspect of any treatment. Joining a group or online community is more important than therapy, meds or anything else by way of making real change or progress. That is a big key point in what i am describing... in my experience, and in the exposure to people who have very real solid dx's both in real life and online, people who really have these issues really want the help to work whereas these other folks want to be able to talk about the dx, talk about the "treatment failure" and so on... it becomes fodder, a means of explaining all their woes... a scapegoat if you will. "I can't do x,y or z because I have whatever disease, which is severe and the treatments dont work for me.. They don't know why"

Um, i know why... it's because they have the wrong dx. Yes, sure, lots of people with accurate dx's fail to respond to traditional treatments, but this is a tad different. There are hallmarks to this that seem as predictable as rain in the jungle. That need to find every descriptive shred of information about the targeted condition and then alter their own life story to fit that - it is a big flag but only those close to the person will see that. The desire to prove they have it to others via lengthy, me-thinks-he-doth-protest-too-much explanations - also a big, big flag. They need to convince people because deep down they know it doesn't fit but they need it to fit... they need to belong and have a reason.

Another feature that may or may not be there, but generally is, is the acquiring of new dx's over time, sometimes at an improbable rate or degree. The "finding" of an answer gives them an internal relief, but it isn't very long lived because it's somewhat like a high... the real relief of finding a real answer in an accurate dx brings a sort of release, relief, understanding and a lot of fear/worry or shame. For people with these acquired dx's, they don't feel that negative thing, that worry or shame or fear - why would they? To them this is THE answer for everything wrong in their lives. An accurate dx brings a bittersweet sense of belonging that comes with the sober reality of what it means. For the others it brings that high... it's variable how much or long they milk that. From what i have seen they will begin seeking a different or addition dx as soon as this new one doesn't magically make all their woes go away.

i knew a man who decided he had ADD by watching an interview on a TV show. He went out and reasearched all the criteria to the point that by the time he got in to see an expert he had his whole life story written out from that perspective. He didn't give the doctor much of a chance of making an accurate dx. Sure enough, he got the dx... he joined a group and began medications and, interestingly, he began fighting with his wife about how his ADD was responible for the things he failed to do well. Eventually he stopped seeing the doc, stopped the meds, dropped out of the group... and why? Because his life was exactly the same life. This was like 15 yrs ago and online groups weren't prevelant... but i can tell you that even with that hurdle he moved on to a bigger, newer and more "flashy" dx. Once again, he was mysteriously resistant to treatment approaches. Odd, eh?

i worry about the online quizes here. i see them as fun past times, interesting ways to maybe see how you fit within things, or look at a cheap "second opinion" in a nonserious way.... or to make your friends believe they have something wrong But seriously folks... an online quiz isn't any kind of assessment tool. If it takes you 5 minutes and you got to do it for free, without help, professional input or anything... TRUST ME, it isn't something you ought to use to modify your life or change how you plan your future. i see dozens and dozens of people pass through chat who take their "sanity score" so seriously that they are actually upset by it. If you fit that statement, relax... it's no more an indicator of who you are or what you can be in life than the magic 8ball at toysRus.

i think a lot of these people are unaware they are doing this quite this way. That's the sad part. In real life i volunteered at a mental health drop in center and i got to meet hundreds of people over the years... many seeking "the answer" and the system isn't geared toward figuring out that these people need a therapy treatment aimed at helping them come to accept themselves, flaws and all, and take the reigns in their lives... they simply need to be taught in a deep way that it's ok not to have a perfect life, it's ok to not be who or what you thought you would be or was told you would be, and you can actually change your world so that your future isn't simple a mirror of your past. TADA... that's the answer for those folks. No mystery, nothing complicated... difficult maybe, but not complicated. The system is geared to labeling and treating by label.... these people feel bad, feel lost, etc but other than some mild and understandable depression, there really isn't anything wrong with them. They don't fit a label... so the system mislabels them and off they go. Online they jump from label to label... and thankfully, some never seek professional treatment for those labels so they at least arent consuming tons of incorrectly prescribed meds... but then, they are never identified as needing just simple, real guidance either.

i feel bad for these folks... don't get me wrong, even if i feel the best "cure" is a swift dose of reality, i feel bad because feeling vaguely lost and down is no fun and they didn't choose that part. They are doing this because they feel bad and have no real idea how to not feel so bad. If i feel bad then there MUST be a cause! Well, there is... it's called being human. Life is full of disappointments, fears, worries and failures. Life is hard and at the end we all die. It is NORMAL and natural to occasionally feel depressed or kind of lost. It doesn't mean you need a label slapped on you. (Why the medical and mental health community isn't doing more about this is beyond me)

i have tons of ideas as to ways to address this... but it begins with families, communities and connecting with each other. It begins with doing whatever is within your individual sphere or reach to help others around you feel some sense of belonging. Not belonging, not feeling accepted, not feeling positive feedback in life is pretty much the root cause... as unglamourous as that may seem.

If you have been in this group stop shopping... stop looking for some big explanation as to why your life doesn't work the way you thought it should. Stop trying to find a reason and a pill that will change the whole world for you. Stop thinking that an online quiz will give you the magic answer.

If you suspect you have something very wrong, stop trying to diagnose yourself!! Stop gathering information online. Just go and talk to a professional as you are... go tell them the same life story you would have told them before trying to find this answer. Stop filtering your life through the various criteria. Just go an lay out the problem exactly as you first perceived it and let them make of it what they will. Stop seeking skewed confirmation of a dx that may or may not fit you - go and ask for a real evaluation based on the facts that have not been re-written.

Having said all of that... i was misdiagnosed for 12 yrs. i had a physical problem that gave me mood issues and i was dx'd as bipolar II. i agonize over my part in that label because i researched the criteria and without any conscious intent to skew things, i think i did. The physical problem is a rare thing so i probably would have gottne the mental dx either way, until we had other evidence, but i know i presented a specific picture as well. i know how simple it is to just taint what you say... mental health is almost entirely subjective.

If you think you have something... ask people you trust about how they see you or observe your behaviours... find professional ways of assessing you without your influence.

peace out

[venusss]

"I can't do x,y or z because I have whatever disease, which is severe and the treatments dont work for me.. They don't know why"

Um, i know why... it's because they have the wrong dx. Yes, sure, lots of people with accurate dx's fail to respond to traditional treatments, but this is a tad different.

Psychology and psychiatry aren't hard sciences... and even the professionals diagnose you based on your self reporting... and one can either be in denial or they view their issue as more serious than it it. So where is the truth?

For people with these acquired dx's, they don't feel that negative thing, that worry or shame or fear - why would they? To them this is THE answer for everything wrong in their lives. An accurate dx brings a bittersweet sense of belonging that comes with the sober reality of what it means. For the others it brings that high... it's variable how much or long they milk that. From what i have seen they will begin seeking a different or addition dx as soon as this new one doesn't magically make all their woes go away.

I agree with this... One often hears that "it's not you, it's your illness". Let me tell you, I maybe bipolar... but when I go on shopping spree, it's me... a woman brought up in capitalist society (in developing capitalist society). Do you really think a whatever treatment would help? (note,I don't go to red numbers on my account for shopping...but I still spend more than the better part of me would like you). I am lazy. No, it's not depression when I don't want to do stuff that I find boring and bothersome. I do I want to change? yes... I have flaws, purely human along with traits of my "insanity"...

What I find sad is that some people with loved ones with MI believe that all of bad behavior they have is due to their illness and if only they would start treatment they would love them again and would not be manipulative and would have aim in lifes... sometimes it might be the case (never a 100%), but often it is not. It's a sad reality, but sometimes it just is so.


The system is geared to labeling and treating by label.... these people feel bad, feel lost, etc but other than some mild and understandable depression, there really isn't anything wrong with them. They don't fit a label... so the system mislabels them and off they go. Online they jump from label to label... and thankfully, some never seek professional treatment for those labels so they at least arent consuming tons of incorrectly prescribed meds...

You know I blame the advertising... soon the ads will probably not even say "do you feel sad..." they, will simply go "do you FEEL? There is a solution (side effects include living empty life...). I blame the society and the attitude of self-entitlement... sorry, but being loved is not on Human rights Charter... you are free to pursue happiness,but it does not come for free.

Well, there is... it's called being human. Life is full of disappointments, fears, worries and failures. Life is hard and at the end we all die. It is NORMAL and natural to occasionally feel depressed or kind of lost. It doesn't mean you need a label slapped on you. (Why the medical and mental health community isn't doing more about this is beyond me)

People nowadays cannot handle emotions too well. I don't know why it is, but many folks seem too uncomfortable with it. Even with my friends I experiences...that they are scared... they don't want to watch sad movies because they are sad... but they are afraid of unwinding because "adults should be responsible, you cannot do this/that/".

Not belonging, not feeling accepted, not feeling positive feedback in life is pretty much the root cause... as unglamourous as that may seem.

That is very true.

If you suspect you have something very wrong, stop trying to diagnose yourself!! Stop gathering information online. Just go and talk to a professional as you are... go tell them the same life story you would have told them before trying to find this answer.

Do shamans count? Because from my past people doing into the alternative field got me more than "professionals".
It is not the answer either, as the definition of narrow is extremelly narrow today... I have some experiences that could be labelled as delusions (at the moment I feel a very thick pink aura around me... I can see pink around me without concentration on it... but let me tell you I would be afraid to tell this to a professional).


If you think you have something... ask people you trust about how they see you or observe your behaviours... find professional ways of assessing you without your influence.

A friend and student of psychology assesed me as a "flegmatic" when I asked her once, out of curiousity. And how can one have someone asses you without your influence anyways? All human perceptions are skwewed, no matter if they have degree in psychology (a social science) or psychiatry (a hard science wannabe).

[donut]

Brilliantly written and I know exactly what you mean. Iwork out in the community and I have noticed a rise in teenagers asking for a mental health diagnosis. This is extraordinary. Why on earth would anyone want a diagnosis of mental health issues? It is sad that young people find a diagnosis more interesting than getting out and finding work etc. It seems there is a culture of it within the young and has become part of their identity.

[Suratji]

This is very fascinating. I had no idea people did that. I am lucky because I don't think I have a mental health problem - just wanting feedback from my therapist on the best way to manage some emotional triggers. Anyways, thanks for the well stated post.

[Michah]

Little Rhino.......

My experience with mental health runs far and wide.......and I was also misdx or the "correct" one was missed for 36 years......

At 16, I was thrust in to the psychiatrists office when my parents divorced. My behaviour was very odd. Odd for a divorce anyway, it seemed.

At 21, I was a psych patient and every label under the sun was placed upon my shoulders until I was 30. Then I had a brief hiatus from mental health institutions for 5 years. Then crash and burn, new mental health team and some very close inspections of my past.

After 2 years of intensive therapy and so on and so forth, I was sent by my shrewd psychologist for testing for Aspergers Syndrome. I did not want another label. I just wanted someone to help me understand. I did not want to be thrown another bunch of words with no comfort in them, or support.

After appoint with specialist psychs in the autism/aspergers arena (and following appoints), I was dx with aspergers Syndrome, Dyslexia, traits of ADHD(innattentive type) and savant-like presentations. And after all the things I had been dx with in my life, autism is the only genetic factor that runs in my family. I mean, not that it is the be all end all of dx, but it is quite significant, wouldn't you think? And surprisingly the type of therapy I am getting now makes sense, where as in the past, it was all gobbly gook and extremely terrifying.

I have seen and met people who are self-dx and I wonder why they would "want" to do that. I know they are seeking answers as desperately as I was, but I would no sooner have dx myself with that, than I would dx myself with cancer, Bipolar disorder or any other illness. I NEED testing and argument to reach the truth. I cannot live with truth that has been manufactured by me because it is not objective.

I get what you are saying, but I also think that people are lost and terrified. "I was okay last year/last week/last month, so what has changed? Why do I feel so lost and afraid?". I mean, I have spent so much time as a patient in psych units where I have been housed with the most unwell of people, and it is not a simple case of feeling lost and terrified as I am sure you know. There is serius and damaging pathology in those times of trauma and crisis, but I get what you are saying (being on the front lines yourself) about teens rocking up for a mental health assessment. The problem with this is that the REALLY unwell teens who desperately need help do not get it in a timely manner because the system is taken up with people who just need a little help to re-orientate themselves. Get a hold of their goals, their self-esteem and so on.

It says a lot for family, the grass roots of how we emotionally learn, and the "loss of the village" makes it so much harder for parents these days to get the help that they need. No-one is born with the innate knowledge in how to raise a child. We raise our children on how our parents raised us, and for some of us, we spend years in therapy trying to turn some very dangerous notions around so we can break the cycle with our own children.

Thank you Little Rhino. You brought up some important points.

Michah

[lizardlady]

Excellent post rhino! I especially like the part where you suggest people stop trying to diagnose themselves and see a professional. If a person's leg was broken and they could not walk I hope they'd see a doctor not google "leg pain."
side note - I'm aware that there are people who research medical problems on line instead of seeing a doctor. The point is that if you are ill see a professional for help.

[missbelle]

Originally Posted by lizardlady

Excellent post rhino! I especially like the part where you suggest people stop trying to diagnose themselves and see a professional. If a person's leg was broken and they could not walk I hope they'd see a doctor not google "leg pain."
side note - I'm aware that there are people who research medical problems on line instead of seeing a doctor. The point is that if you are ill see a professional for help.

I definately would google leg pain first providing I could crawl to my computer that is...Seriously though, if I had chest pains I would also google..then based on what I read would call maybe 911....The internet has helped me to go to the Doc, not stay away. It was through research I learned when to call a Doc. I am older now though and can judge better what I need so I have that going for me. When I was first dx with depression I had no idea what was going on....oh, and it was before the computer age...so you know I am super old but wise!!

[venusss]

Originally Posted by missbelle

I definately would google leg pain first providing I could crawl to my computer that is...Seriously though, if I had chest pains I would also google..then based on what I read would call maybe 911....The internet has helped me to go to the Doc, not stay away. It was through research I learned when to call a Doc. I am older now though and can judge better what I need so I have that going for me. When I was first dx with depression I had no idea what was going on....oh, and it was before the computer age...so you know I am super old but wise!!

Yep, I also don't run with every booboo to doctor. Eventhough we have a universal healthcare (which means sometime person goes to doctor to get paper they are healthy for their job and they end up catching some nasty virus in the waiting room).

also too many people get "you're depressed, here's your script, next!" when going to see professional. So good research does not hurt as long as you aren't taking it for universal truth.

You have convinced me. Instead of seeing my psychiatrist, all I have to do is come here to get all wised up. Thanks for the support.

[sanityseeker]

It all comes down to balance... like anything in life. But balance can be hard to find when one is feeling off balance, afraid, confused and needing something to comfort them through it.

The opposite scenerio can just a well be argued. An alarming number of people will deny the seriousness of the problems negatively impacting their lives for fear of the stigma or simply a mistrust of doctors. They end up just putting everything back onto themselves. Listening to the people around them who say 'you are too sensitive. you need to just cheer up and get over yourself. There is nothing wrong with you a good dose of reality won't fix. you are just making an excuse to be lazy.' You accept their dx because you don't know enough or can't accept that a 'mental illness' might be at play or the symptoms of a real illness are distorting your thinking.

Add to that the wait times to see a professional. Too often GP's will toss samples at you while showing you the door. Some will refuse to make a referal spouting some of the same falsehoods as you have already heard. I had one GP say to me once, 'do something good for someone else, it will make you feel better.' Looking for a good doctor can be way too overwhelming a task when in crisis. Where I live it is a 6 to 12 months wait to see a psychiatrist for a professional dx. What does a person do in the meantime? At worst they die or if they are lucky wake up in a hospital psych ward. At best they start to look for answers of their own by getting informed. Yes, sometimes that means they get a little carried away in the process because answers even the wrong answers are comforting.

When I was first dx it wasn't long before a few more labels were added to the mix. I think this happens alot because there are so many common symptoms among the different labels. So if one label fits it is pretty likely that other labels will cross over to fit too. I think as one learns to live with the symptoms impacting their life, receives effective treatment and can draw upon a good support network the labels become less and less important. It becomes more about turning things around with an aim of recovery and maintain hope for remission.

I appreciate that you are encouraging people to be cautious of self dx and on-line quizzes but if just one person is saved because the search for answers in that way motivated them to go for help then it is worth any number of others for whom that may not be the case. If a dx provides some comfort, lets someone in pain know they are not alone, steers them in the right direction then 'have at it' I say. Go get professional help, confide in someone you trust and learn all you can to effectively identify and engage in effective treatment. Yes, the system is in overload and lots of people run to the doctor for things that may not need a doctor's attention but that is as much a system flaw as anything. While one might be able to 'wait and see' about a fever, that same approach for someone in emotional distress could be deadly. We need to be careful not to discount or minimize someone else's pain. If it is problematic for them then it is legitimate for them even if it may seem minor to an outside observer.

I am one of those people who has to be dragged kicking and screaming to the doctors for pretty much anything and even then I will resist treatment until I am near dead. One example: dx with hypothyroidism, need medication says the doctor. It took me 2 years of living with the symptoms and risking serious effects before I resigned to medication. I was going to fix it with diet and lifestyle changes. Research told me it was possible and I hung on to that belief even though I made no changes to either. Instead of going for the meds I kept repremanding myself for not taking better care of myself. I needed to do my part first before resorting to meds. Problem was I wasn't doing my part so all I did was continue to risk my life.

I had to survive countless suicide attempts, ruin countless relationships, pick myself up from countless burnouts, distroy my career, loose all my savings before I finally accepted a diagnosis I thought far to subjective for me to accept.

Let us fight for a better system of care. One that has layers of para-professionals who can take some of the burden off the end of the line doctors. Let us not put the burden of system overload upon people in need. Don't ask a person in crisis question whether they need help or not. The only response to crisis is help even if that help is just a shoulder to cry on or an on-line community to support them.

I couldn't even start to count the numbers of Aspie wannabes who had completed on line aspie quizzes and decided they had Aspergers (never Autistic though ).

And don't even get me started on the mums desperate to get there kids dx so they could be associated with the genius factor - sending us pms asking what the questions /answers were on "The Test" and what the pass mark was.