[Shangrala]

Real quick short story (to briefly explain why I'm even asking this question):

Brother married quite a few years ago to a wonderful woman. I thought they were a perfect match. They complimented eachother. After about 7 years into the marriage, brother begins to complain about how SIL is behaving.
I do not see them together daily, however, it seemed that it was right around that 7 year period brother begins to attend more to forming bond with me away from his home and wife. I thought he was just going through a rough period and needed a little suppot, so I didn't think anything of it.
Months pass. I still see brother daily, but not SIL. Brother tells me about all these horrible stories about SIL. That she's begun therapy, gotten on all sorts of meds for viarious dx's, and the results are not favorable, making her worse, creating nightmare situations at home, violent arguements, fights, several police reports, (rollercoaster relationship...good during the "up" cycle, disasterous for the "down"), etc.
I suggest to bro that maybe he join her with her therapy, to maybe obtain better insight, etc. He says that she won't allow it.

Anyway...after time, during their up cycles, SIL began to join bro for his visits over, which was great, I thought.
I begin to see a pattern between them which suggested just the opposite to the stories that my bro had been telling me all along.

After much more time passed, I've discovered that my SIL was not bipolar, or suffered from disorders, other than PTS because of my bro and his horrible physical & emotional abuse to her, (that I was unaware of at that time).
Apparently, my SIL has been pretending to have all these symptoms not only to obtain a disability status (to receive $$...however much that is... beside the point), but was capable of doing so over a very long period of time.
When she took the meds prescribed, she not only abused them to get high, (NO idea what the effects are to these meds, as I've never been prescribed any, or have ever taken any), but her personality changed, began behaving as though she really was suffering from these issues, yet when not on the meds, she seemed fine, or...better, anyway.

It had become so bad with them, (her), that bro attempted to have her commited into a psych ward for better observation, (even though I believe he should have been the one committed), but was unable to do so as she was not deemed ill enough, yet, she continued to receive the meds for disorders she was not really suffering from.

Is it really possible to pretend to suffer from these symptoms to the point that one can actually fool the therapists?

Thankies~

Shangrala

[ECHOES]

Is it possible the therapist sees right through this and is treating what he/she sees?
It doesn't sound like healthy behavior (by either your brother or sister in law)...

I believe some prescribers do prescribe rather easily and based soley on what is told to them. Meds are a big money business.

[Perna]

I don't think you can be outside and get a very good picture of what is going on in someone else's marriage. There's no great money in disability that someone would "deliberately" pursue that path for years at a time. One doesn't generally get high on psych meds, it would be "easier" to try to fake pain for the pain meds if one were interested in getting high. As Echoes says, it doesn't sound like either your brother or sister-in-law are very psychologically healthy. Think about it; you don't "fake" being mentally ill, you'd have to be pretty mentally ill to want to do that in the first place.

Originally Posted by Perna

I don't think you can be outside and get a very good picture of what is going on in someone else's marriage. There's no great money in disability that someone would "deliberately" pursue that path for years at a time. One doesn't generally get high on psych meds, it would be "easier" to try to fake pain for the pain meds if one were interested in getting high. As Echoes says, it doesn't sound like either your brother or sister-in-law are very psychologically healthy. Think about it; you don't "fake" being mentally ill, you'd have to be pretty mentally ill to want to do that in the first place.

My thoughts too....

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Shangrala

Real quick short story (to briefly explain why I'm even asking this question):

Brother married quite a few years ago to a wonderful woman. I thought they were a perfect match. They complimented eachother. After about 7 years into the marriage, brother begins to complain about how SIL is behaving.
I do not see them together daily, however, it seemed that it was right around that 7 year period brother begins to attend more to forming bond with me away from his home and wife. I thought he was just going through a rough period and needed a little suppot, so I didn't think anything of it.
Months pass. I still see brother daily, but not SIL. Brother tells me about all these horrible stories about SIL. That she's begun therapy, gotten on all sorts of meds for viarious dx's, and the results are not favorable, making her worse, creating nightmare situations at home, violent arguements, fights, several police reports, (rollercoaster relationship...good during the "up" cycle, disasterous for the "down"), etc.
I suggest to bro that maybe he join her with her therapy, to maybe obtain better insight, etc. He says that she won't allow it.

Anyway...after time, during their up cycles, SIL began to join bro for his visits over, which was great, I thought.
I begin to see a pattern between them which suggested just the opposite to the stories that my bro had been telling me all along.

After much more time passed, I've discovered that my SIL was not bipolar, or suffered from disorders, other than PTS because of my bro and his horrible physical & emotional abuse to her, (that I was unaware of at that time).
Apparently, my SIL has been pretending to have all these symptoms not only to obtain a disability status (to receive $$...however much that is... beside the point), but was capable of doing so over a very long period of time.
When she took the meds prescribed, she not only abused them to get high, (NO idea what the effects are to these meds, as I've never been prescribed any, or have ever taken any), but her personality changed, began behaving as though she really was suffering from these issues, yet when not on the meds, she seemed fine, or...better, anyway.

It had become so bad with them, (her), that bro attempted to have her commited into a psych ward for better observation, (even though I believe he should have been the one committed), but was unable to do so as she was not deemed ill enough, yet, she continued to receive the meds for disorders she was not really suffering from.

Is it really possible to pretend to suffer from these symptoms to the point that one can actually fool the therapists?

Thankies~

Shangrala

yup its possible. with the internet its easy to look things up then go to a doctor and complain about those same things and act them out. theres a college student here that does that. every time she hears one of her friends has something she researches it then starts acting it out.

not a good thing but funny anyway during one of our psych classes we had to do a paper and oral report on a mental disorder. this guy who had dated this woman figured out she was a hypercondriac (person that needs to pretend to be sick) so he did a fake paper mixing up all kinds of symptoms and disorders and named it a truly outragously but true sounding mental disorder. for the next two weeks she was complaining she had these symptoms and went to her doctor and came out of the appointment with prescriptions for ritalin, welbutrin, seraquel and resperitol and birth control pills.

its definatley possible.

After much more time passed, I've discovered that my SIL was not bipolar, or suffered from disorders, other than PTS because of my bro and his horrible physical & emotional abuse to her, (that I was unaware of at that time).

Whether any laws have been broken is one thing. Horrible physical and emotional abuse, of which I am quite familiar, is another.

Something is terribly amiss here.

[Shangrala]

I definately agree that my bro and his wife have some serious issues, individually and combined. By no way am I excusing one for the other, or either, for that matter.

It's quite unfortunate for all concerned, as I was forced to disassociate with them due to their inability to attend to any means of correcting their cycles, which they seemed to feed off from eachother. Their episodes only worsened to the point that they both were attempting to directly involve me to play judge n jury.
I know that my bro needs some serious psychological help. Before I disconnected myself from any contact with them, I attempted to talk to him to suggest he seek help. All hell broke loose, resulting in him becoming violent with me and my daughter, hense the reason I cut all ties with him, (I cut ties with SIL because she was just trouble brewing...and where she was, he followed).

I have enough of my own issues that I struggle to contend with. And although I love my brother, I can't help but to seriously dislike the person he's become and refuse to subject my daughter or self to his abuse.
3 years ago last month I wished him the best and that was the last I saw of him.
No idea what's become of SIL and not about to find out. I can only hope that each of them can find some kind of help before they burn every bridge on their paths.

Thanks for your replies.
I still can't help but to wonder that it must take one clever (if that's the correct description) mind to project such a facade over such an extended period of time, as my SIL had done. She couldn't have done this just to obtain gov support, (as I know there isn't enough financial gain to that which would be worthy for the effort required). Imagine if she had put that energy toward something positive for herself....
Ehh....guess it's not even worth trying to figure out. I just found it curious, is all....

Shangrala

[Shangrala]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

yup its possible. with the internet its easy to look things up then go to a doctor and complain about those same things and act them out. theres a college student here that does that. every time she hears one of her friends has something she researches it then starts acting it out.

not a good thing but funny anyway during one of our psych classes we had to do a paper and oral report on a mental disorder. this guy who had dated this woman figured out she was a hypercondriac (person that needs to pretend to be sick) so he did a fake paper mixing up all kinds of symptoms and disorders and named it a truly outragously but true sounding mental disorder. for the next two weeks she was complaining she had these symptoms and went to her doctor and came out of the appointment with prescriptions for ritalin, welbutrin, seraquel and resperitol and birth control pills.

its definatley possible.

I find this interesting.
Do hypercondriac's behave this way because they truly feel they are ill, or is it a means of seeking sympathy/pity?...or, both?
I find it interesting because of the energy it would require to conduct self in such a convincing way that it fools even professionals.
Or, is it really as ECHOES says, that the docs are just too script happy and really don't care..(the almighty dollar reigns...?).
Hmmmm...

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Shangrala

I find this interesting.
Do hypercondriac's behave this way because they truly feel they are ill, or is it a means of seeking sympathy/pity?...or, both?
I find it interesting because of the energy it would require to conduct self in such a convincing way that it fools even professionals.
Or, is it really as ECHOES says, that the docs are just too script happy and really don't care..(the almighty dollar reigns...?).
Hmmmm...

there are as many reasons why. each case is different. in this persons case she had a parent with Münchhausen so she grew up with a mother who told her to pretend she was sick and in some situations the mother made her sick. We are taught in our classes that some people learn to pretend they are sick from their parents. I can see how easy that can happen children learn what they are exposed to. one time after hearing my mother call in to work sick when she wasn't I pretended to be sick to get out of a test. luckily I had a great parent that wasn't going to let me go down that road. She made me stay in bed all day and no tv, no nothing just lay in bed cause I was supposed to be sick. I never did that again. Some people do it for attention. there was a kid in my elementary class who had parents that worked all the time so when they were home he would pretend to be sick to get as much attention as he could. some people have problems that are not readily seen so they pretend to be more sick in order to either cover up what really is wrong or because they want someone to notice their other problem. I personally have not met any doctors that feel meds will fix every single thing here's a pill kind of doctor so I cant answer that one.

[(JD)]

We can't judge other people's motives.
Yes, there are fraudulent claims all the time.

Why not give your SIL the phone number or web link to an abused women's center or outlet. She may need to get away from your brother so she can find her safe self again.

[Shangrala]

Originally Posted by (JD)

We can't judge other people's motives.
Yes, there are fraudulent claims all the time.

Why not give your SIL the phone number or web link to an abused women's center or outlet. She may need to get away from your brother so she can find her safe self again.

Thanks, JD, for your suggestion. I would think that that would be a helpful direction for her to seek help and support, as well.
Unfortunately, SIL has explored/exploited just about every possible means during her (short lived) recovery rebounds. There for a while I was driving her to her support meetings, and picking her up afterwards. She could no longer drive herself as she lost licence due to too many DUI's, (bro was the cause of her drinking as severely as she did).

This really is a very sad situation because she is a wonder person, a real joy to be around..before bro's behavior sent her over the edge, so to speak.
I have tried to help her a few different times. Let her stay with me, but that became too dramatic and problematic as where she went, bro eventually sought her out and resumed the chaos, (and she, unfortunately allowed the drama to continue....cops were even called to my residence by neighbors due to the abusive public display).
I've helped her move away from him twice, but she keeps returning back to him. It's as though they feed off of eachother, maybe? I don't really know.

What I found so terribly sad, too, was the fact that when SIL was away from bro, she was her genuine self. And bro somehow managed to convince everyone (at first) how all the problems they were having was because of her. He had us all fooled at first, until everyone, including self, saw the truth to the matter.
I did what I could for SIL, offered as much help and support that I possibly could (at first overstepping my own boundaries to assist her to obtaining a solution out of her hell), until she proven that she wasn't capable of continuing the position she had obtained as a result from the assistance she received. She burnt out the resources she received to the point that no one wanted to help her so long as she wasn't intending to help self, I suppose.

I'd love to contact her to see how she's doing, but am reluctant to do so for concern that she's made no progress since I've seen her last. I do not want any of that drama in my life again. It was hard enough the first time. My daughter still, on occassion, mentions the memories she has of the abuse my bro introduced her to, and I'd rather protect her from any futher exposure to that. SIL may be doing better, yes, but it's a chance I'm not willing to subject my daughter to just in case she isn't.
I feel bad for saying that, but I have to choose what's best for my daughter in this case.

Thanks for all the replies.....

Shangrala